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Author Topic: Voting on the Blockchain  (Read 194 times)
VFalcon
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August 19, 2024, 03:09:30 PM
 #21

It's already well advanced, evena for example gaming platforms on blockchain like Fairspin, where you can play and bet and it's all in one ecosystem
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August 20, 2024, 07:58:09 AM
 #22

I'm also very skeptic about an "online voting" system based on blockchain tech because the potential for manipulation is simply too high (from malware to identity theft). That's also why in my answer I mention relatively small improvements to traditional and established processes which could perhaps work and increase transparency a bit more.

I understand your concern. But what if the system is built on top of a secure and reliable blockchain network like Bitcoin? Then it would be almost impossible to inject malware and manipulate votes. Governments can make a sidechain or network built on top of Bitcoin (L3, perhaps?) for this to work. The possibilities are endless.

If Microstrategy is building a decentralized identity system on top of Bitcoin (called the Orange Protocol), then making a voting system on top of Bitcoin should be a no-brainer. I think governments are waiting to see Blockchain tech to develop more throughly before taking a decision. Expect crypto/Blockchain tech to become a part our daily life soon. Smiley

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August 20, 2024, 02:36:46 PM
 #23


If Microstrategy is building a decentralized identity system on top of Bitcoin (called the Orange Protocol), then making a voting system on top of Bitcoin should be a no-brainer. I think governments are waiting to see Blockchain tech to develop more throughly before taking a decision. Expect crypto/Blockchain tech to become a part our daily life soon. Smiley


It's been 15 years and blockchain has been well-known and extremely well-funded most of that time. No technology that actually had promise would ever sit on the sidelines for 15 months, let alone 15 years.

Blockchain hasn't been adopted for anything besides cryptocurrencies and NFTs because the architecture simply doesn't make sense for anything else. The minute you actually start coding on these hand-waving projects people talk about, that becomes apparent.






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August 21, 2024, 10:30:23 PM
 #24

It's been 15 years and blockchain has been well-known and extremely well-funded most of that time. No technology that actually had promise would ever sit on the sidelines for 15 months, let alone 15 years.

Blockchain hasn't been adopted for anything besides cryptocurrencies and NFTs because the architecture simply doesn't make sense for anything else. The minute you actually start coding on these hand-waving projects people talk about, that becomes apparent.

Of course. Blockchain isn't meant for everything. But what's stopping governments from using the tech to build their own digital voting system? For best results, they should build a new layer on top of the existing one (L2). It will be like a "sidechain" but with all of the security benefits of the main chain. Sort of how Bitcoin's Lightning Network works. The possibilities are endless.

It's going to take quite some time before we see something like this implemented at a large scale. Especially when some goverments are skeptical of crypto/Blockchain tech. The approval of spot ETFs for BTC and ETH in the US and abroad is just the beginning. The same way the Internet transformed our world, the same way Blockchain will transform every aspect of our lives. You will be using the tech without even noticing it. Who knows what surprises we'll find in the future?

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August 21, 2024, 11:27:45 PM
 #25


Of course. Blockchain isn't meant for everything. But what's stopping governments from using the tech to build their own digital voting system? For best results, they should build a new layer on top of the existing one (L2). It will be like a "sidechain" but with all of the security benefits of the main chain. Sort of how Bitcoin's Lightning Network works. The possibilities are endless.


An "L2" is just... code. Why even have blockchain at all at that point?

Again, I defy people to get specific about what they are talking about when they throw these buzzwords around.

Until then, this sounds like some know-nothing executive telling a software team, "put AI in the product now" whether it makes sense or not.


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August 21, 2024, 11:28:04 PM
 #26

I understand your concern. But what if the system is built on top of a secure and reliable blockchain network like Bitcoin? Then it would be almost impossible to inject malware and manipulate votes.
The malware problem is actually at another place ... the device of the voter. People could be tricked to install a software which can access the keys for voting and vote for them, or falsifies their vote. Take into account that blockchain voting would be an option which has to be accessible even for non-technical and poor people who are vulnerable to these attacks.

Of course you can try to make everything safe with biometric access, as was already discussed. But first, this introduces complexity and additional vulnerabilities (the biometric data can be stolen, for example). And second, this would perhaps make voting as secure as banking, but it's not enough. Voting has normally higher standards. Once the vote result is official, you can't "chargeback" the votes as you can sometimes with erroneusly transferred or scammed funds when your banking app was hacked or tricked. If you allow "changing votes" after the election event, like chargebacks in banking, I imagine then this would become a total mess which would be exploited by all parties to gain advantages.

The most secure way would perhaps to offer a dedicated device for voting. Or distributing an official app in an offline way (e.g. where you can get the download link only at a government dependency) But even if the technical side is totally safe, not only but principally in countries where corruption is rampant, party officials could offer you "benefits" (like money, free lunch or so) if you vote "with them" for their party in their party office - i.e. enforcing secrecy would be an enormous problem.

Some of these problems of course also occur with postal voting, and countries who accept that method are accepting this risk. But online voting, including blockchain voting, even then introduces more vulnerabilities. Estonia and some other countries do already apply online voting and they seemingly accept the risk. However, in Estonia's case where the database operator is probably trustable and the country is relatively small and "controllable", blockchain technology would not add much safety. So I believe the only use case I really would approve is what I wrote in my previous post - blockchain as a backup for a semi-electronic system which can be also manually controlled, and where there are minor trust problems in the "voting chain", as in most South American countries for example.

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August 21, 2024, 11:44:52 PM
 #27

As long as voter fraud could be guaranteed not to happen then I think it’s a great idea. It would be quite controversial though so whilst I think it’s definitely possible eventually, I don’t expect the powers that be to pivot to blockchain voting any time soon.

If someone's life depended on blockchain voting and they recognized its deficiencies, they would never recommend it. The unfortunate reality is that the fraud within such a system can be untraceable and unpunishable. Internet voting remains vulnerable to security risks, and it's hard to see how integrity can be restored and maintained.

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August 22, 2024, 12:44:12 AM
 #28


It's been 15 years and blockchain has been well-known and extremely well-funded most of that time. No technology that actually had promise would ever sit on the sidelines for 15 months, let alone 15 years.

Blockchain hasn't been adopted for anything besides cryptocurrencies and NFTs because the architecture simply doesn't make sense for anything else. The minute you actually start coding on these hand-waving projects people talk about, that becomes apparent.


It is true, blockchain has formed a structure of progress in the journey of forming changes, a technology in the business world, which is very good with its existence and is applied to crypto assets and can be relied on for market growth with technology that has produced stable services with the minds of people who have stepped forward, have changed everything.

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August 23, 2024, 07:49:58 AM
 #29

The malware problem is actually at another place ... the device of the voter. People could be tricked to install a software which can access the keys for voting and vote for them, or falsifies their vote. Take into account that blockchain voting would be an option which has to be accessible even for non-technical and poor people who are vulnerable to these attacks.

Of course you can try to make everything safe with biometric access, as was already discussed. But first, this introduces complexity and additional vulnerabilities (the biometric data can be stolen, for example). And second, this would perhaps make voting as secure as banking, but it's not enough. Voting has normally higher standards. Once the vote result is official, you can't "chargeback" the votes as you can sometimes with erroneusly transferred or scammed funds when your banking app was hacked or tricked. If you allow "changing votes" after the election event, like chargebacks in banking, I imagine then this would become a total mess which would be exploited by all parties to gain advantages.

The most secure way would perhaps to offer a dedicated device for voting. Or distributing an official app in an offline way (e.g. where you can get the download link only at a government dependency) But even if the technical side is totally safe, not only but principally in countries where corruption is rampant, party officials could offer you "benefits" (like money, free lunch or so) if you vote "with them" for their party in their party office - i.e. enforcing secrecy would be an enormous problem.

Some of these problems of course also occur with postal voting, and countries who accept that method are accepting this risk. But online voting, including blockchain voting, even then introduces more vulnerabilities. Estonia and some other countries do already apply online voting and they seemingly accept the risk. However, in Estonia's case where the database operator is probably trustable and the country is relatively small and "controllable", blockchain technology would not add much safety. So I believe the only use case I really would approve is what I wrote in my previous post - blockchain as a backup for a semi-electronic system which can be also manually controlled, and where there are minor trust problems in the "voting chain", as in most South American countries for example.

Ah, yes. The problem with the user not properly securing its device against malware. Around 90% of security issues are caused by the end user. Not the protocol itself. Governments might need to provide their own devices within an isolated environment to ensure voting is done in a safe and secure manner. It's a challenge they'd need to solve if they want to incorporate Blockchain tech into the political system. We're still early to discuss something like this.

While Blockchain has been tried-and-tested for 15 years now, there's a long road ahead before it becomes fully mature for mainstream use. Even the Internet is older than Blockchain. Adoption seems to be increasing at a fast pace. So a digital voting system powered by Blockchain would be inevitable. I've always wondered which will be the first country to "break the ice". I guess it will be El Salvador since it was the first country to make BTC legal tender. Who knows? Smiley

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August 23, 2024, 03:03:24 PM
 #30


Ah, yes. The problem with the user not properly securing its device against malware. Around 90% of security issues are caused by the end user. Not the protocol itself. Governments might need to provide their own devices within an isolated environment to ensure voting is done in a safe and secure manner. It's a challenge they'd need to solve if they want to incorporate Blockchain tech into the political system. We're still early to discuss something like this.

While Blockchain has been tried-and-tested for 15 years now, there's a long road ahead before it becomes fully mature for mainstream use. Even the Internet is older than Blockchain. Adoption seems to be increasing at a fast pace. So a digital voting system powered by Blockchain would be inevitable. I've always wondered which will be the first country to "break the ice". I guess it will be El Salvador since it was the first country to make BTC legal tender. Who knows? Smiley


I hate to keep sounding like the old curmudgeon here, but... 15 years in the world of high-tech might as well by 15,000 years. If the blockchain architecture was useful for something besides cryptocurrency and NFTs, then we would have seen such implementations... 14 years ago.


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