Time to rethink these feedback? Lightlord at it again for the umpteenth time.

[Mahdirakib]

If the user wins more, would you credit Lightlord?

In 90%+ cases, gambler lost their winnings if they continue their betting while the withdrawal is delayed for a long time. Lightlord won't lose anything if the user makes profit by placing bets continuously. Casino always maintains profit in the long run for the house edge.

What if he withdraws, and loses somewhere else, would you still blame Lightlord?

It will be completely a different thing there. Lightlord wouldn't be blamed even if the user receive his withdrawal instantly and lose his funds on Bitvest by making a redeposit.

I haven't looked at the site in a while, but I am pretty sure it is unlicensed and non-KYC. So, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't even have ToS. One of the style of the many that used to be back in the day.

That's why I'm surprised it's still online. All other Bitcoin casinos I know from "my early Bitcoin days" (which wasn't even that early) are either licenced now, or they closed.

Yep, Bitvest is still operating without having any gambling licence. We have a few more old casinos ANN thread here in the forum which are operating without any gambling licence. They are PlayBitcoinGames, Bustabit, Bustadice. Freebitco.in also used to be an old anonymous casino without any gambling licence, but they have acquired one in the last year. BTW, Bustabit and Bustadice had gambling licence in 2019 and 2020. They haven't renewed their licence since 2021.

[Pmalek]

Because gamblers usually lose their temper within a short time and lose their winnings by placing bets continuously. Someone has won 437 LTC on Bitvest on August 24, and still waiting to get his withdrawal as the hot wallet hasn't been refilled.

It's not Lightlord's fault if a person can't control their gambling urges and ends up losing their winnings. It's only the person who gambles who is at fault if that happens, no one else. Lightlord's fault is not filling the wallet with enough crypto for players to withdraw their winnings and acting unprofessional.

Lightlord need to be tagged and blamed if the user lose a small part of his winnings while he is waiting for the hot wallet to be refilled.

I don't agree. Gamblers and addicts come up with various reasons why they lost. In reality, it's very simple. It's their fault. If they can't accept the risks, they shouldn't aim for the rewards.

[Mahdirakib]

It's not Lightlord's fault if a person can't control their gambling urges and ends up losing their winnings. It's only the person who gambles who is at fault if that happens, no one else. Lightlord's fault is not filling the wallet with enough crypto for players to withdraw their winnings and acting unprofessional.

Lightlord will be responsible indirectly if the user loses his funds now. Because the user tried to request a withdrawal and found the hot wallet is empty. If you are a regular gambler then you won't be able to see your funds sitting like that in a casino. It will always tempt you to bet more. And Bitvest doesn't have the self-exclusion system on their website. Anyway, our arguments aren't going to make any changes on Bitvest. The primary issue is the 'empty hot wallet here'. And Lightlord is completely responsible for this. Seems like the user has already lost 77% of his winnings.

[Pmalek]

Lightlord will be responsible indirectly if the user loses his funds now. Because the user tried to request a withdrawal and found the hot wallet is empty.

Imagine I am sitting in a bar. I have had a couple of drinks and want to go home. I call the waiter over to pay my bill and he tells me, just a minute please, I will be right with you. He first has to attend to some other customers. That minute turns into two, two into five, etc. Since I have more money in my wallet, I say, what the hell, I might as well take a seat at the bar and order myself a few more drinks. I waste all my money and return home drunk as a skunk. Is the waiter at fault because drank more than I should have? 

If you are a regular gambler then you won't be able to see your funds sitting like that in a casino. It will always tempt you to bet more.

What you are describing is problem gambling and gambling addiction.

Anyway, our arguments aren't going to make any changes on Bitvest. The primary issue is the 'empty hot wallet here'. And Lightlord is completely responsible for this.

I completely agree.

Seems like the user has already lost 77% of his winnings.

What can I tell you, casinos love such players.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

He was indeed late in his dues it can’t be denied but he always cleared it when he saw fit but I don’t think he has intention of scamming people. I don’t think a flag or negative trust is necessary in this case but if you think otherwise then nothing is stopping you from painting him red.

I've already done that a long time ago as I described in a previous post.  Being late isn't a great defense for someone who's got an obligation to pay a lot of people (and I'm talking about his prior campaign(s) where he certainly didn't seem to have any respect for people's time or need for money).  Can you imagine if you had a real-life employer who just paid you whenever they felt like it, and you never knew what to expect?  That shit wouldn't fly.

This is indeed the next problem: having to ask for your own money is annoying, and I think many people are even reluctant to ask their own money back.
Not paying people without them asking or waiting for it just shows bad character.

Yep, I noticed that when I left my first neutral on lightlord and then the negative.  His campaign participants were obviously very reluctant to speak up, probably out of fear that they'd be blacklisted from his campaigns in the future.  Needless to say, there's a huge power imbalance at play and lightlord should realize that and act responsibly. 

The first time this happened, Lutpin was also involved and should have been pressuring lightlord to pay his participants despite whatever health issues the latter had going on.  After that, I'm not buying any more excuses about health or anything else.  In any case, I've already made my thoughts known on lightlord's trust profile, and I'd hope that DT members would exert their influence if they agree he's established a pattern of fucking up.

[worldofcoins]

He was indeed late in his dues it can’t be denied but he always cleared it when he saw fit but I don’t think he has intention of scamming people. I don’t think a flag or negative trust is necessary in this case but if you think otherwise then nothing is stopping you from painting him red.

I've already done that a long time ago as I described in a previous post.  Being late isn't a great defense for someone who's got an obligation to pay a lot of people (and I'm talking about his prior campaign(s) where he certainly didn't seem to have any respect for people's time or need for money).  Can you imagine if you had a real-life employer who just paid you whenever they felt like it, and you never knew what to expect?  That shit wouldn't fly.

Well it’s reasonable.. Then what about these cases.

I can't say I'm surprised that this has not been resolved given that "Edward Miroslav" has been found guilty of several immoral practices (account buying, trust buying) etc.

This wasn't a targeted mute, I'll unmute your account shortly, thousands of accounts are muted a day to prevent faucet abuse automatically and this just seems to be a false positive. Unfortunately we don't have an option to disable faucet on a per-account basis other than using mute, we'll be fixing that as well.

What does surprise me is that Stunna, even though he/she unmuted you, never fully tried to resolve this case. Why is that?
Another example of review farming: https://forum.primedice.com/topic/29824-earn-a-quick-50k-satoshis/.

According to Op support of this Dice website Primedice asked them to deposit and lose the amount before getting unbanned (When it was casino’s fault accepted by the Advisor/Owner Stunna) is this behaviour acceptable this is worst than someone flatout ignoring the withdrawal of a player.
- Trust buying on their forum from this website (Is this acceptable?)

Then here’s this case of duelbits denying a player withdrawal of 1million usd by calling them out for cheating.

https://casino.guru/duelbits-casino-player-s-account-has-been-closed
And they still operate freely.

People in their campaign will defend the brand they are promoting as long as they are getting paid by it.

There are many other cases that i can look into. I would like to know your thoughts on these.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Well it’s reasonable.. Then what about these cases.

<snip>

<snip>
Then here’s this case of duelbits denying a player withdrawal of 1million usd by calling them out for cheating.

https://casino.guru/duelbits-casino-player-s-account-has-been-closed
And they still operate freely.

People in their campaign will defend the brand they are promoting as long as they are getting paid by it.

There are many other cases that i can look into. I would like to know your thoughts on these.

Are you asking me in particular?  Because I don't recall anything from the old post you referenced, and aside from lightlord paying people at his leisure and to the inconvenience of the recipients, I don't follow the tons of gambling scams/drama/what-have-you and can't really give an informed comment unless I delved into that stuff--and I'm not going to, because that's best left to DT members who understand gambling and casinos better than I do.

Regarding members defending whatever service they promote in their signature space....unless they are actually hardcore supporters of that service, I think that's a bad way to view a sig campaign.  You're renting out your profile space and that's it, not endorsing the service any further than that (that's how I see it, anyway, except for Foxpup's Merit Cycling Club which I will have engraved on my tombstone).

[worldofcoins]

You're renting out your profile space and that's it, not endorsing the service any further than that (that's how I see it, anyway~

My short answer to you is 1xBit there could be more services like that. People who wore their sigs got rekt they were only renting their space, You are going more by feelings i have nothing against it but I don’t agree with what you said.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

You're renting out your profile space and that's it, not endorsing the service any further than that (that's how I see it, anyway~

My short answer to you is 1xBit there could be more services like that. People who wore their sigs got rekt they were only renting their space, You are going more by feelings i have nothing against it but I don’t agree with what you said.

Let me just qualify that statement by saying that no one should be indiscriminate about who they're renting out their signature space to, in so far as they have enough information to judge the credibility of the service/whatever that's being advertised.  I'm thinking in particular about members who continue to participate in campaigns like 1xbit (and even Yobit's last campaign) well after it's been shown they're facilitating a scam.  I think we're more on the same page than I'm making it seem.

We've gone way off-topic from the lightlord situation, so let's just leave it be or you can start up a new thread to continue discussing what we're batting back and forth, which is probably a worthwhile topic for a thread in Meta.  Couldn't be any worse than the majority of the crappy topics floating around anyway. 

[worldofcoins]

You're renting out your profile space and that's it, not endorsing the service any further than that (that's how I see it, anyway~

My short answer to you is 1xBit there could be more services like that. People who wore their sigs got rekt they were only renting their space, You are going more by feelings i have nothing against it but I don’t agree with what you said.

Let me just qualify that statement by saying that no one should be indiscriminate about who they're renting out their signature space to, in so far as they have enough information to judge the credibility of the service/whatever that's being advertised.  I'm thinking in particular about members who continue to participate in campaigns like 1xbit (and even Yobit's last campaign) well after it's been shown they're facilitating a scam.  I think we're more on the same page than I'm making it seem.

We've gone way off-topic from the lightlord situation, so let's just leave it be or you can start up a new thread to continue discussing what we're batting back and forth, which is probably a worthwhile topic for a thread in Meta.  Couldn't be any worse than the majority of the crappy topics floating around anyway.  

You said “Renting out signature space but not endorsing it” Now people who wore 1xBit and YoBit’s sigs were just renting their space not endorsing it and they got negged for renting their space. Now Primedice, Stake owner(s) Buying trust, Accounts from this forum, Asking a player to lose funds to get unbanned (Then the owner unbanning and calling it a false positive), Leaving cases on hold abandoning the forum and still running their campaigns without any problem in open (That’s another thing they’re hiring incompetent manager and a few spammers on the forum that post max quota and spam the shit out of gambling section to keep their thread at top) and Scam hunters don’t care/give a shit about it? Or they’re flat out ignoring it because they will not be able to deal with the hate of majority of campaigners that lost their job. You are contradicting what you said.

I don’t want to creat a topic in meta about this, Maybe I will if i get the time. The thing is lightlord goes inactive and gets attacked he deserves it since it’s not the first time.

Then this duelbit case. Not paying the winnings of a user and Still the scam hunters don’t care when there’s a complain about it on a popular forum? People are looking into LL’s website and attack him for his ac actions but other cases of pure scam from Primedice, Duelbits goes unnoticed this is how people close their eyes when things they can’t handle the things that are in hind sight and there’s proof to support that claim.

[Poker Player]

It's not Lightlord's fault if a person can't control their gambling urges and ends up losing their winnings.

But it his fault for not paying on time. Would you accept that your company pays you a couple of months later than it should? Or order a withdrawal or transfer and not have it executed until someone's feels like ti? I'm used to getting my money when I withdraw within 24 hours or occasionally 48 hours max when I withdraw at fiat poker sites. What I do with my money is my problem, whether I re-deposit it and lose it or “spend it” as George Best would say.

In this case it is the same as with freebitco.in. They are sites that are in a legal limbo as a regulated site operating in this way would have already been intervened by the authorities or at least would be under investigation by the supervisor. Well, in the case of Bitvest, counting that it is the umpteenth time, I think it would have been closed long ago.

Can anyone imagine betfair or bet365 operating like that without being intervened? Not a chance.

[LoyceV]

It's not Lightlord's fault if a person can't control their gambling urges and ends up losing their winnings.

But it his fault for not paying on time.

That's true. But losing in gambling is the gambler's fault. Chances are he would have lost it elsewhere if he wouldn't have lost it there. If you don't want to risk losing it, don't gamble.

Would you accept that your company pays you a couple of months later than it should?

If you work for an anonymous company on the internet, that is indeed a risk. If it's a legit registered company in my country, they have a fixed period of time to pay, or else the amount increases (by many percents). If they still don't pay, the employees can get a lawyer, the company gets declared bankrupt, and government pays the last 3 months salary to the employees. It's one of the perks of regulation.

In this case it is the same as with freebitco.in. They are sites that are in a legal limbo as a regulated site operating in this way would have already been intervened by the authorities or at least would be under investigation by the supervisor. Well, in the case of Bitvest, counting that it is the umpteenth time, I think it would have been closed long ago.

We're talking about an anonymous online casino that has had late payment warnings for the past 6 years. If anyone still falls for that, it's totally on them. Don't get me wrong, I prefer an anonymous service that doesn't ask for KYC over an anonymous service that demands KYC (while you don't know who you're sending it to), but if they can't keep up their promises, people really should stop using them. In my opinnion, that's how P2P transactions are supposed to work.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

You said “Renting out signature space but not endorsing it” Now people who wore 1xBit and YoBit’s sigs were just renting their space not endorsing it and they got negged for renting their space. Now Primedice, Stake owner(s) Buying trust, Accounts from this forum, Asking a player to lose funds to get unbanned (Then the owner unbanning and calling it a false positive), Leaving cases on hold abandoning the forum and still running their campaigns without any problem in open (That’s another thing they’re hiring incompetent manager and a few spammers on the forum that post max quota and spam the shit out of gambling section to keep their thread at top) and Scam hunters don’t care/give a shit about it? Or they’re flat out ignoring it because they will not be able to deal with the hate of majority of campaigners that lost their job. You are contradicting what you said.

I'm not contradicting anything I said--when I wrote about not personally promoting or endorsing what's rented out in a signature space, I was stating my own opinion of how campaigns should be viewed (and how I view them), and that was in response to one of the statements you made about some folks standing up for whoever's hiring them.  Obviously not everyone shares my viewpoint.

As to the rest of that stuff, I once again plead ignorance because I haven't looked into the gambling shenanigans (which I stated) and would defer that to other DT members who are familiar with 1) the shenanigans and 2) gambling in general (which I also stated).  There may well be some double standards going on; I've seen that in the past, and it's happened with lightlord's case.  I'm just not going to Leeeroy Jenkins myself into a tangled mess and start negging people without researching the problem.

And once again, I'm leaving that to other DT members.

[worldofcoins]

You said “Renting out signature space but not endorsing it” Now people who wore 1xBit and YoBit’s sigs were just renting their space not endorsing it and they got negged for renting their space. Now Primedice, Stake owner(s) Buying trust, Accounts from this forum, Asking a player to lose funds to get unbanned (Then the owner unbanning and calling it a false positive), Leaving cases on hold abandoning the forum and still running their campaigns without any problem in open (That’s another thing they’re hiring incompetent manager and a few spammers on the forum that post max quota and spam the shit out of gambling section to keep their thread at top) and Scam hunters don’t care/give a shit about it? Or they’re flat out ignoring it because they will not be able to deal with the hate of majority of campaigners that lost their job. You are contradicting what you said.

I'm not contradicting anything I said--when I wrote about not personally promoting or endorsing what's rented out in a signature space, I was stating my own opinion of how campaigns should be viewed (and how I view them), and that was in response to one of the statements you made about some folks standing up for whoever's hiring them.  Obviously not everyone shares my viewpoint.

So it means if something doesn’t align with my beliefs and I get the intention of targeting the individual or a group then nothing’s stopping me except the members of that group or the friends of that individual.

[examplens]

So it means if something doesn’t align with my beliefs and I get the intention of targeting the individual or a group then nothing’s stopping me except the members of that group or the friends of that individual.

Why on earth would you target anyone?
Throughout this thread, I can see that you are persistently trying to create a conflict, even if it is by misinterpreting someone's words. The Skeptical Chymist has clearly stated his position, and you continue and try to drag his words in a completely different direction.
Relax, this is the discussion about Lightlord, not the justification for targeting others.

note: I don't expect an immediate reply and I'm really not willing to get into endless and pointless discussions

[worldofcoins]

So it means if something doesn’t align with my beliefs and I get the intention of targeting the individual or a group then nothing’s stopping me except the members of that group or the friends of that individual.

Why on earth would you target anyone?
Throughout this thread, I can see that you are persistently trying to create a conflict, even if it is by misinterpreting someone's words. The Skeptical Chymist has clearly stated his position, and you continue and try to drag his words in a completely different direction.
Relax, this is the discussion about Lightlord, not the justification for targeting others.

note: I don't expect an immediate reply and I'm really not willing to get into endless and pointless discussions

I understand his standpoint and I am not judging him on that I am just asking a question for myself and want to know his viewpoint on that from his understanding.
I just posted other casino’s behaviour and compared it with lightlord’s situation (It’s another reason people ignoring/not-want to discuss for whatever reason.)

-This will be my last reply in this thread, i hope SC answer it here or in PM where ever he feels comfortable.  

[Pmalek]

But it his fault for not paying on time. Would you accept that your company pays you a couple of months later than it should? Or order a withdrawal or transfer and not have it executed until someone's feels like ti?

I have already addressed this in my other posts. Lightlord's guilt has already been established. It begins and ends with not funding the wallets that are supposed to pay winning players their winnings and not caring about the reputation of his business and his own personal one.

But he is not to be held accountable for any wins or losses from those playing in his casino. If he is responsible for players losing their money because of the empty hot wallets, what are we going to do with those (if there are such) who won even more? Should they return the extra winnings to the casino because if they had managed to withdraw their winnings earlier, they wouldn't have been able to play and win more money while waiting on their withdrawals.