Kamala Harris Supports Tax on Unrealized Capital Gains: What It Means for Wealth

[zasad@]

Poker Player, larry_vw_1955 It's still hard for me to understand American logic. If Russia raises taxes for the rich, it will increase the price of goods for the poor anyway.

There is a classic joke on this subject in Russia:
"- Vodka's gone up in price, son.
- Dad, will you drink less now?
- No, son, you'll eat less now."

[Poker Player]

Poker Player, larry_vw_1955 It's still hard for me to understand American logic. If Russia raises taxes for the rich, it will increase the price of goods for the poor anyway.

There is a classic joke on this subject in Russia:
"- Vodka's gone up in price, son.
- Dad, will you drink less now?
- No, son, you'll eat less now."

It is not a question of American logic, it is social communist “logic” (if you can call it that), which you in Russia must know something about, even if only from the past. It is a matter of making an ever increasing percentage of the population dependent on the state. You start with the speech against the rich and end up starving the population, apart from political repression or censorship. There is no country where this has been implemented and has not ended up the same way.

[zasad@]

Poker Player, larry_vw_1955 It's still hard for me to understand American logic. If Russia raises taxes for the rich, it will increase the price of goods for the poor anyway.

There is a classic joke on this subject in Russia:
"- Vodka's gone up in price, son.
- Dad, will you drink less now?
- No, son, you'll eat less now."

It is not a question of American logic, it is social communist “logic” (if you can call it that), which you in Russia must know something about, even if only from the past. It is a matter of making an ever increasing percentage of the population dependent on the state. You start with the speech against the rich and end up starving the population, apart from political repression or censorship. There is no country where this has been implemented and has not ended up the same way.

I lived in the USSR under communism and know what it was like, and many people write about it and haven't seen it. Under communism, factories, lands, rivers, lakes, belonged to the state.
Citizens had guarantees for housing, free medicine and the state tried to maintain a good social policy.

In the modern world, factories (read all large-scale production), land, commercial real estate are owned by corporations such as Blackrock and others. Where would comunism come from?

There have been many crises in Russia, so all people are well aware that for a billionaire an increase in taxes will not change anything in his life. He already does not have enough life to spend his billions, and for ordinary citizens any increase in taxes even for billionaires always ends with an increase in prices for various products.

Why don't the voters realise this? Are they promised to increase social security at the expense of these taxes or what?

[Poker Player]

Why don't the voters realise this? Are they promised to increase social security at the expense of these taxes or what?

I understand that you are referring to Kamala, which is what we are talking about, yes, what she promises is that there will be “free” education and healthcare, that prices will not go up because she will control them (something that has not worked in 2,000 years since the edict of Diocletian, except for specific cases in very small periods), and in short that there will be more state and less private sector. To do this she is going to raise taxes (apart from continuing to print money) and spend more on public programs. Obviously, her target audience is not the multimillionaire or the self-employed who have achieved a good standard of living through their own efforts, but those who live off the state or aspire to do so.

[larry_vw_1955]

There have been many crises in Russia, so all people are well aware that for a billionaire an increase in taxes will not change anything in his life. He already does not have enough life to spend his billions, and for ordinary citizens any increase in taxes even for billionaires always ends with an increase in prices for various products.

i disagree with the philosophy that we shouldn't increase rich peoples' taxes because they will just pass it on to the middle class in the form of higher prices. as a consumer people have a choice of whether to buy something or not. if they don't agree to the price then pass on it. simple as that.

[zasad@]

Why don't the voters realise this? Are they promised to increase social security at the expense of these taxes or what?

I understand that you are referring to Kamala, which is what we are talking about, yes, what she promises is that there will be “free” education and healthcare, that prices will not go up because she will control them (something that has not worked in 2,000 years since the edict of Diocletian, except for specific cases in very small periods), and in short that there will be more state and less private sector. To do this she is going to raise taxes (apart from continuing to print money) and spend more on public programs. Obviously, her target audience is not the multimillionaire or the self-employed who have achieved a good standard of living through their own efforts, but those who live off the state or aspire to do so.

LOL. You are going the Russian way.
In Russia, medicine and education are free.
But let's start with schools, most schools have very poor quality education, and if you want to go to a good school, you have to negotiate with the principal of that school and pay bribes or go to a commercial school. As if everything is free, but parents will all slavishly buy good school furniture in classrooms, pay for repairs, pay extra for good food and so on.

Medicine is also an interesting topic. There is medicine in Russia, and children's medicine is good. There are separate hospitals for children under 18, and if the child is not ill, you can do without gifts and bribes, but if there is a disease, you will have to spend money.

But all this charm ends when a citizen reaches the age of 18 and he has to go to adult hospitals.  Hospitals are overcrowded, doctors are overworked.

There have been many crises in Russia, so all people are well aware that for a billionaire an increase in taxes will not change anything in his life. He already does not have enough life to spend his billions, and for ordinary citizens any increase in taxes even for billionaires always ends with an increase in prices for various products.

i disagree with the philosophy that we shouldn't increase rich peoples' taxes because they will just pass it on to the middle class in the form of higher prices. as a consumer people have a choice of whether to buy something or not. if they don't agree to the price then pass on it. simple as that.

You may disagree, but it is a fact that any increase in taxes eventually affects the price of goods to the end consumer.
It all depends on how many rich people you have and how many poor people you have. Or maybe you collect a billion more in taxes from rich people and then spend 2 billion more on social spending. What's the point of that?

When you have a good income and you have surplus money left over, you can vote with your food choices. But if your income is only enough for social payments, rent and food, then you will have no choice and you will be forced to buy lower quality products.

[Poker Player]

LOL. You are going the Russian way.
In Russia, medicine and education are free.
But let's start with schools, most schools have very poor quality education, and if you want to go to a good school, you have to negotiate with the principal of that school and pay bribes or go to a commercial school. As if everything is free, but parents will all slavishly buy good school furniture in classrooms, pay for repairs, pay extra for good food and so on.

Medicine is also an interesting topic. There is medicine in Russia, and children's medicine is good. There are separate hospitals for children under 18, and if the child is not ill, you can do without gifts and bribes, but if there is a disease, you will have to spend money.

But all this charm ends when a citizen reaches the age of 18 and he has to go to adult hospitals.  Hospitals are overcrowded, doctors are overworked.

No, they are not "free", that's why I put quotation marks in my previous comment and on this one on the word. You pay for it through taxes. And Russia is not the only country where this happens, far from it, it is quite common in EU countries.

And as you comment, in general, things that are “free” (that we pay for in a disguised way through taxes) tend to have a worse quality than those offered in free competition by the private sector.

Although I agree that at least part of the offer as far as healthcare is concerned should be public, that the state should do it and make sure that people with fewer resources are taken care of.

But I didn't want to get into here what I think or don't think about the issue, but what Kamala thinks, and she goes in the direction of more state, more taxes, more regulations, and more impediments to the private sector.

[larry_vw_1955]

You may disagree, but it is a fact that any increase in taxes eventually affects the price of goods to the end consumer.

it's not that i disagree it's just that i think it's not a justification for not raising taxes on higher income classes. some of them may be landlords maybe they'll increase the rent but they would probably have done that ANYWAY.

But if your income is only enough for social payments, rent and food, then you will have no choice and you will be forced to buy lower quality products.

give an example of a "lower quality product". often people perceive something as being lower quality when in reality it is perfectly fine.

[zasad@]

The country would return to the bad old days of corporate inversions, where businesses flee offshore to reduce their tax costs."

they've already done that or maybe you just haven't been noticing how places like amazon when you call them on the phone who are you talking to? that's right. not an american. not someone living here in the usa. i am all for taxing the shit out of big corporations. so if that's ms. harris' plan then good on her.

Why do this before the elections?

because it's something that needs to be done ASAP. as soon as possible. so talking about it right now means she can just do it immediately if she gets elected which cuts down on any delays.

it's like we pretend like all these big companies are just loyal to the usa. they don't give a crap about the usa and employing usa citizens.

there's too many rich people here in this country with way too much money and they don't even know what to do with it. that's their biggest problem, if you can believe that. let's tax some of that away.  

If you read the article on tax increases, they plan to raise taxes by 33%. A small tax increase of 5-10% may be unnoticeable, but 33% is a lot and there are also issues of double taxation, when the resident has to pay tax on the unrealised value.

I can give you many examples on products. For example, dairy products. Milk in Russia costs from 40 cents to 4 dollars per litre.  For 40 cents you will buy a liquid that is produced by mixing white powder (milk powder) with palm oil and water. Perhaps in your country this is prohibited, but in Russia it is not.Natural pasteurised milk costs 1-1.5 dollars per litre. And more expensive is already with various vitamin additives or a well-known brand.
The same goes for butter, cottage cheese, sour cream and so on.
Many cheap products use cheap palm oil, which is banned in many countries.
If you have a smaller food budget, you will buy less meat and fish and eat more pasta and other cheaper products that make people fat quickly.

LOL. You are going the Russian way.
In Russia, medicine and education are free.
But let's start with schools, most schools have very poor quality education, and if you want to go to a good school, you have to negotiate with the principal of that school and pay bribes or go to a commercial school. As if everything is free, but parents will all slavishly buy good school furniture in classrooms, pay for repairs, pay extra for good food and so on.

Medicine is also an interesting topic. There is medicine in Russia, and children's medicine is good. There are separate hospitals for children under 18, and if the child is not ill, you can do without gifts and bribes, but if there is a disease, you will have to spend money.

But all this charm ends when a citizen reaches the age of 18 and he has to go to adult hospitals.  Hospitals are overcrowded, doctors are overworked.

No, they are not "free", that's why I put quotation marks in my previous comment and on this one on the word. You pay for it through taxes. And Russia is not the only country where this happens, far from it, it is quite common in EU countries.

And as you comment, in general, things that are “free” (that we pay for in a disguised way through taxes) tend to have a worse quality than those offered in free competition by the private sector.

Although I agree that at least part of the offer as far as healthcare is concerned should be public, that the state should do it and make sure that people with fewer resources are taken care of.

But I didn't want to get into here what I think or don't think about the issue, but what Kamala thinks, and she goes in the direction of more state, more taxes, more regulations, and more impediments to the private sector.

As far as I know, in the US and Europe people pay for health insurance in addition to taxes. And the cost of such insurance, depending on the conditions, ranges from 300 to 1000 dollars a month.
In Russia, every year I take 3 dozen blood tests for different indicators, do abdominal ultrasound, kidney ultrasound, ECG, go to my GP with 20 years of experience in a commercial clinic and pay 150 dollars for this.
All analyses there are done on the best Swiss and Japanese equipment. In the USA and Europe, such medical services would cost at least 10 times more.

I believe that children's medicine and medical care for students should be free, but under certain conditions. If a person drinks alcohol, smokes, or takes drugs, why should the state treat him for free?

[larry_vw_1955]

As far as I know, in the US and Europe people pay for health insurance in addition to taxes. And the cost of such insurance, depending on the conditions, ranges from 300 to 1000 dollars a month.

that's a misconception. you might want to dig a little deeper. how much someone pays for health insurance here depends on their income level. the lower their income the more help they get with paying their premium. but $300 is definitely not the bottom end of the scale. it's way lower than that. 

In Russia, every year I take 3 dozen blood tests for different indicators, do abdominal ultrasound, kidney ultrasound, ECG, go to my GP with 20 years of experience in a commercial clinic and pay 150 dollars for this.

All analyses there are done on the best Swiss and Japanese equipment. In the USA and Europe, such medical services would cost at least 10 times more.

those type of services here in the USA would be billed out to insurance at at least $15,000 or more. I wouldn't be surprised if it was $100,000 or more to be quite honest.

I believe that children's medicine and medical care for students should be free, but under certain conditions.

there is no such thing as "free" in the healthcare system in the united states. someone is always paying. be that the patient or the insurance company or both.

If a person drinks alcohol, smokes, or takes drugs, why should the state treat him for free?

they probably shouldn't. just give them another bottle of booze or pack of smokes and send them on their way. but seriously. it depends on the condition. if it's a broken leg then their smoking or drinking didn't cause that necessarily.

[zasad@]

As far as I know, in the US and Europe people pay for health insurance in addition to taxes. And the cost of such insurance, depending on the conditions, ranges from 300 to 1000 dollars a month.

that's a misconception. you might want to dig a little deeper. how much someone pays for health insurance here depends on their income level. the lower their income the more help they get with paying their premium. but $300 is definitely not the bottom end of the scale. it's way lower than that. 

In Russia, every year I take 3 dozen blood tests for different indicators, do abdominal ultrasound, kidney ultrasound, ECG, go to my GP with 20 years of experience in a commercial clinic and pay 150 dollars for this.

All analyses there are done on the best Swiss and Japanese equipment. In the USA and Europe, such medical services would cost at least 10 times more.

those type of services here in the USA would be billed out to insurance at at least $15,000 or more. I wouldn't be surprised if it was $100,000 or more to be quite honest.

I believe that children's medicine and medical care for students should be free, but under certain conditions.

there is no such thing as "free" in the healthcare system in the united states. someone is always paying. be that the patient or the insurance company or both.

If a person drinks alcohol, smokes, or takes drugs, why should the state treat him for free?

they probably shouldn't. just give them another bottle of booze or pack of smokes and send them on their way. but seriously. it depends on the condition. if it's a broken leg then their smoking or drinking didn't cause that necessarily.

Give me an example with insurance. I saw a case where a person with a salary of 5500 dollars a month pays about 700 dollars for insurance, but since he has a job with a risk to life, this insurance covers all cases.

I don't even want to ask why medical services are so expensive in the US. I have heard that many Americans go to Mexico, where businessmen build special clinics for them.

The problem with your insurance medicine is that you need a referral from a doctor for any analysis, and this sometimes takes a long time.  In this area, medicine in Russia is better.
Free medicine in Russia is medicine for which citizens do not pay. You are right that insurance companies or state social funds pay for it, but personally, I have not even thought about it and have not looked into how this mechanism works. The insurance policy for citizens is issued free of charge and it does not depend on whether the citizen works or not.

In Russia, alcohol kills and injures a lot of people. Many people die in traffic accidents with drunk drivers. Alcohol causes many diseases, so it is a big national disaster.  After any mass holiday like New Year's Eve, trauma centers and hospitals are full of people. And according to the law, doctors have no right to refuse people medical help, even if they are drunk or under the influence of drugs.

[Poker Player]

As far as I know, in the US and Europe people pay for health insurance in addition to taxes.

You're wrong my friend, that's why I told you before that it doesn't happen only in Russia. In that Europe is totally different from the USA. Everyone is covered by public health care without paying. You can, apart from that go to a private doctor if you want or pay through insurance but everyone is covered by universal healthcare.

List of countries with universal health care - Wikipedia

Almost all European countries have healthcare available for all citizens.

[larry_vw_1955]

Give me an example with insurance. I saw a case where a person with a salary of 5500 dollars a month pays about 700 dollars for insurance

it all depends on their household size and total household income.

https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-families/questions-and-answers-on-the-premium-tax-credit#q7

In Russia, alcohol kills and injures a lot of people. Many people die in traffic accidents with drunk drivers. Alcohol causes many diseases, so it is a big national disaster.  After any mass holiday like New Year's Eve, trauma centers and hospitals are full of people. And according to the law, doctors have no right to refuse people medical help, even if they are drunk or under the influence of drugs.

then outlaw alcohol. and throw people in jail who use it. treat it as an illegal drug.

[zasad@]

In Russia, alcohol kills and injures a lot of people. Many people die in traffic accidents with drunk drivers. Alcohol causes many diseases, so it is a big national disaster.  After any mass holiday like New Year's Eve, trauma centers and hospitals are full of people. And according to the law, doctors have no right to refuse people medical help, even if they are drunk or under the influence of drugs.

then outlaw alcohol. and throw people in jail who use it. treat it as an illegal drug.

LOL. You forgot US history and Prohibition. It didn't bring any results.
But you don't understand Russia, if alcohol is banned, even sober people will drink it up in protest

Thanks for the info, I will try to look into it.
But to make it clearer to me, can you explain to me how it works?  For example, salary 1000 dollars, health insurance 0, salary 2000 dollars, insurance 50 dollars or how does it roughly work?

You're wrong my friend, that's why I told you before that it doesn't happen only in Russia. In that Europe is totally different from the USA. Everyone is covered by public health care without paying. You can, apart from that go to a private doctor if you want or pay through insurance but everyone is covered by universal healthcare.

I could be wrong because my knowledge is limited to a few cases. But then why are non-rich people so dissatisfied with medicine in Europe?
I myself exercise, take supplements and have my liver and other organs analysed. A set of sports analyses for me costs 30-40 dollars in a paid clinic using modern European equipment. My colleague from Europe complains that this procedure will cost him several thousand dollars in a paid European clinic. It would be cheaper for him to fly to Russia and take these analyses:)

[larry_vw_1955]

Thanks for the info, I will try to look into it.
But to make it clearer to me, can you explain to me how it works?  For example, salary 1000 dollars, health insurance 0, salary 2000 dollars, insurance 50 dollars or how does it roughly work?

Someone with a salary of $1000 per month is below federal poverty level so I'm not even sure they would qualify for a health insurance premium credit at all. Instead they would get free medicaid, IF it is available in their state. There are still some states who want poor people to suffer without any type of insurance at all so they don't allow medicaid expansion. $2000 per month would be well above federal poverty level so would qualify for assistance in paying the insurance premium. Depending upon who you choose for the insurer, you could pay anywhere from $10 to $120 or even more per month. There's alot of variability in prices between different insurance companies I think. Even when their plans offer similar coverage.

Just to note: Federal poverty level doesn't mean anyone making more than that is just fine. $2000 per month is really a tiny salary here in the USA and I don't see how anyone could survive on it. I think the average income is $4000 per month or maybe more. The Federal Poverty Guidelines are a joke.

[zasad@]

Thanks for the info, I will try to look into it.
But to make it clearer to me, can you explain to me how it works?  For example, salary 1000 dollars, health insurance 0, salary 2000 dollars, insurance 50 dollars or how does it roughly work?

Someone with a salary of $1000 per month is below federal poverty level so I'm not even sure they would qualify for a health insurance premium credit at all. Instead they would get free medicaid, IF it is available in their state. There are still some states who want poor people to suffer without any type of insurance at all so they don't allow medicaid expansion. $2000 per month would be well above federal poverty level so would qualify for assistance in paying the insurance premium. Depending upon who you choose for the insurer, you could pay anywhere from $10 to $120 or even more per month. There's alot of variability in prices between different insurance companies I think. Even when their plans offer similar coverage.

Just to note: Federal poverty level doesn't mean anyone making more than that is just fine. $2000 per month is really a tiny salary here in the USA and I don't see how anyone could survive on it. I think the average income is $4000 per month or maybe more. The Federal Poverty Guidelines are a joke.

Thank you for the information.
If you want a joke, in Russia the minimum average cost of living is $130-200 depending on the region. There are some regions where this level is 400 dollars, but there are really difficult climatic conditions there.
We even have some citizens who have been doing Challenges to live for a month, but it is very difficult.
But you also have to take into account utility bills, so with such an income it is not life but survival.

[Poker Player]

I could be wrong because my knowledge is limited to a few cases. But then why are non-rich people so dissatisfied with medicine in Europe?
I myself exercise, take supplements and have my liver and other organs analysed. A set of sports analyses for me costs 30-40 dollars in a paid clinic using modern European equipment. My colleague from Europe complains that this procedure will cost him several thousand dollars in a paid European clinic. It would be cheaper for him to fly to Russia and take these analyses:)

The experiences of your acquaintances cannot be generalized. If you need to have your liver and other organs tested for a disease or suspected disease it will not cost you anything in European countries with universal health care. If it is simply because you do sport and you want to do a follow-up you are going to have to pay for it out of your pocket but about prices I can't tell you, in some places it will be more expensive and in others cheaper.

[larry_vw_1955]

Thank you for the information.
If you want a joke, in Russia the minimum average cost of living is $130-200 depending on the region. There are some regions where this level is 400 dollars, but there are really difficult climatic conditions there.
We even have some citizens who have been doing Challenges to live for a month, but it is very difficult.
But you also have to take into account utility bills, so with such an income it is not life but survival.

that's crazy. in some cities, people spend $100 per day just on fast food here and there.  they could probably be more efficient in their spending habits but that's their decision.

[zasad@]

I could be wrong because my knowledge is limited to a few cases. But then why are non-rich people so dissatisfied with medicine in Europe?
I myself exercise, take supplements and have my liver and other organs analysed. A set of sports analyses for me costs 30-40 dollars in a paid clinic using modern European equipment. My colleague from Europe complains that this procedure will cost him several thousand dollars in a paid European clinic. It would be cheaper for him to fly to Russia and take these analyses:)

The experiences of your acquaintances cannot be generalized. If you need to have your liver and other organs tested for a disease or suspected disease it will not cost you anything in European countries with universal health care. If it is simply because you do sport and you want to do a follow-up you are going to have to pay for it out of your pocket but about prices I can't tell you, in some places it will be more expensive and in others cheaper.

Some russian companies have agreements with good paid clinics and the situation is better there, but where there is a general medical examination program and the doctor has to see 50-70 people a day, it is like filling out paperwork and many diseases may not be found.

Therefore, in Russia it is easier to spend 150-200 dollars a year on yourself in a good paid clinic and not spend a lot of time.

If you want to take angalysis for free, but you have to make an appointment at a state clinic, wait 2-3 weeks or more, then ask the doctor to schedule these tests.
You may be given a referral for the next month's tests. All free medicine requires a very long wait in queues, but it is good that there is such medicine.



Look at prices for tests in Russia
https://citilab.clinic/price/laboratornyie-issledovaniya

For example, a good set of 14 tests to assess the condition of the heart and blood vessels will cost you 50 dollars.
The prices in the table are in rubles. If you want to get the result in euros, divide the price by 100.

Thank you for the information.
If you want a joke, in Russia the minimum average cost of living is $130-200 depending on the region. There are some regions where this level is 400 dollars, but there are really difficult climatic conditions there.
We even have some citizens who have been doing Challenges to live for a month, but it is very difficult.
But you also have to take into account utility bills, so with such an income it is not life but survival.

that's crazy. in some cities, people spend $100 per day just on fast food here and there.   they could probably be more efficient in their spending habits but that's their decision.

It's not crazy, it's a statistic that is factored into pensions, benefits, and so on.
My close relatives have an average pension of 250-350 dollars. And if a man did not work officially at all and lived to the age of 65, he will be assigned a pension in the form of the minimum subsistence level in his region

[larry_vw_1955]

It's not crazy, it's a statistic that is factored into pensions, benefits, and so on.
My close relatives have an average pension of 250-350 dollars. And if a man did not work officially at all and lived to the age of 65, he will be assigned a pension in the form of the minimum subsistence level in his region

most retirees here in the usa probably have about $5000 to $6000 per month to live on. and that's not really considered rich. it's just basic middle class. they can afford to put food on the table and pay their basic necessities.

that's just considered middle class here. nothing out of the ordinary...

on the other hand if someone never worked a day in their life here, they could probably still get about $1000 per month for free from the government every month. that's once they get to retirement age.

For example, a good set of 14 tests to assess the condition of the heart and blood vessels will cost you 50 dollars.

thats funny because doctors here in the usa are only interested in treating diseases so they can make alot of money. they're not interested in someone that just wants to monitor their health and do some basic tests.   no one does that here anyway the only reason you go to the doctor is if something is WRONG. not if you feel ok and just want to run a bunch of tests. no one does that!

everyone can have their own opinion but i don't think most doctors want their patients to get better because if they get better then they can't keep billing their insurance.