Kamala Harris Supports Tax on Unrealized Capital Gains: What It Means for Wealth

[larry_vw_1955]

This is known as a "wealth tax," and the goal is to tax wealthy households that increasingly avoid taxation by living off unsold and unrealized assets.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kamala-harris-supports-tax-unrealized-193900073.html

how anyone could be against this is mind boggling. do you want the ultra wealthy to keep paying no taxes? how about lets have them paying taxes on all their huge assets that they have been evading taxes on for a long time by playing games?  

that's what is wrong with this society is these ultra high net worth idiots take control of everything and pay no unrealized capital gains on it and just sit on it. so if they try and own bitcoin, i want them paying unrealized capital gains on it too! 

[stompix]

Before anyone starts screaming, as I'm fairly sure nobody will read the article itself:

Specifically, households worth more than $100 million would pay an annual minimum tax worth 25% of their combined income and unrealized capital gains.

9,850 centi millionaires in the US will pay 25% of the annual gains, not their worth, furthermore, the tax applies to only those ones who don't pay already 25% tax on their income. So a guy that makes 2 million a year and has 200 million worth of assets will not benefit anymore from a tax deduction to lower his tax below $500 000 that year! On top of that, you would be exempt from this tax if you don't hold more than 80% of your wealth in tradable assets.

Read more here:
https://www.axios.com/2024/08/23/kamala-harris-unrealized-capital-gains-tax

And now I am curious if there is one user here that qualifies for this tax. 

[larry_vw_1955]

Before anyone starts screaming, as I'm fairly sure nobody will read the article itself:

Specifically, households worth more than $100 million would pay an annual minimum tax worth 25% of their combined income and unrealized capital gains.

so then you agree with the proposal? i'm assuming. there's no downside to it. ultra wealthy people shouldn't complain at all.

And now I am curious if there is one user here that qualifies for this tax.  

satoshi probably qualifies for this tax. so there might be a renewed effort to track him down if the law passed and they thought he was american...but again, there's nothing wrong with taxing such people.

i wouldn't mind seeing them drop that $100 million down to say $10 million. someone that is worth $10 million is very wealthy to me and they should be subject to it too but i guess the politicians have to look out for themselves. so they don't want to make it too low or it might affect them.

[Poker Player]

There are two main problems with this type of measure:

1) They achieve the opposite effect.
2) What is initially intended to tax billionaires ends up being lowered and applied to the entire population.

1) Billionaires who are going to be robbed of 25% of their wealth without having made any gain will normally use all the legal tools they have to avoid it, and if not, they will leave the country.

When a 75% tax was introduced in France, celebrities such as the actor Gerard Depardieu left the country and then:

France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns

This is known as a "wealth tax,"

They seem to have learned nothing from history. You should only have looked at what happened in Europe, where many countries imposed it, not only France, and look:

"The wealth tax has disappeared from all EU countries except Spain"

2) The income tax was introduced in the USA as a temporary measure after the civil war, and only applied to the richest 3%:

How President Taft Established Income Tax

[_act_]

And now I am curious if there is one user here that qualifies for this tax. 

If a very wealthy man is affected by the tax after having unrealized profit but later as he did not convert the coins to any other thing and the coin price reduces and the wealthy person is having unrealized loss. The tax would be given back monthly in the way they were collected or in the way it is appropriate? I do not like this approache even if it is only the very wealthy people would be affected. Unrealized profit should not be taxed.

[zasad@]

This is known as a "wealth tax," and the goal is to tax wealthy households that increasingly avoid taxation by living off unsold and unrealized assets.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kamala-harris-supports-tax-unrealized-193900073.html

how anyone could be against this is mind boggling. do you want the ultra wealthy to keep paying no taxes? how about lets have them paying taxes on all their huge assets that they have been evading taxes on for a long time by playing games?  

that's what is wrong with this society is these ultra high net worth idiots take control of everything and pay no unrealized capital gains on it and just sit on it. so if they try and own bitcoin, i want them paying unrealized capital gains on it too! 

I dread to imagine what taxes Apple, Nvidia, and others will pay.
Russia has a “wealth tax”, but it is expressed in a progressive tax rate on income. The more you earn, the more you pay in taxes.
This is in contrast to the estate tax and other income taxes.

[pakhitheboss]

I feel some how that Trump will be a good President. The problem is that he talks and shits more than the existing President. I am still suprised to see in democracy effectively upheld that he as in Biden is suddenly removed and replaced by Kamla.

According to my understanding in democracy you cannot remove a contestant who is fighting to become the next President of the US or any other democratic country. I live in a democratic environment and I have never seen such changes before the elections.

Let us see what happens next! If, I am guessing correctly it will be Trump who will become the next President, unless the deep state and the military tries something new remove him from the election.

[larry_vw_1955]

And now I am curious if there is one user here that qualifies for this tax. 

If a very wealthy man is affected by the tax after having unrealized profit but later as he did not convert the coins to any other thing and the coin price reduces and the wealthy person is having unrealized loss. The tax would be given back monthly in the way they were collected or in the way it is appropriate?

No! not at all. no one is going to give anything back. that's not how the government works.

I dread to imagine what taxes Apple, Nvidia, and others will pay.

why should i feel sorry for huge companies like that though. they have overpriced products anyway.

There are two main problems with this type of measure:

1) They achieve the opposite effect.
2) What is initially intended to tax billionaires ends up being lowered and applied to the entire population.

#2 is a valid point. i think that's actually the goal is to kind of phase it into higher income people first and then impose it onto the middle class. they have to normalize the population to the idea that it is valid to pay tax on an unrealized gain. that will take some getting used to but eventually people will become normalized to it. and accept it as something that is reasonable. i think it becomes a problem when peoples' houses appreciate in price and they start getting a tax bill for the unrealized capital gains and can't pay it and get evicted and their house sold at a tax sale. 

[stompix]

so then you agree with the proposal? i'm assuming. there's no downside to it. ultra wealthy people shouldn't complain at all.

No, because
- it's quite impossible to correctly implement
- it's not really a 'program' it was a proposal that was tossed around during Biden's term a lot but never something set in stone
- there are other ways to tax wealth, with far lower odds of anyone even trying to evade

They seem to have learned nothing from history. You should only have looked at what happened in Europe,

There is one tiny difference between Europe and the US and why this might work better, not that it would work as intended, and that's the difference between the citizenship laws and the IRS.  Remember Roger Ver? He tried to pull a Depardieu, didn't work as planned.

I dread to imagine what taxes Apple, Nvidia, and others will pay.

Zero, this is a wealth Personal Wealth Tax!

If a very wealthy man is affected by the tax after having unrealized profit but later as he did not convert the coins to any other thing and the coin price reduces and the wealthy person is having unrealized loss. The tax would be given back monthly in the way they were collected or in the way it is appropriate?

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/General-Explanations-FY2025.pdf

Uncredited prepayments would be available to be credited against capital gains taxes due upon realization of gains, to the extent that the amount of uncredited prepayments, reduced by the cumulative amount of unpaid installments of the minimum tax (net uncredited prepayments), exceeds 25 percent of unrealized gains. Refunds would be provided to the extent that net uncredited prepayments exceed the long-term capital gains rate (inclusive of applicable surtaxes) times the taxpayer’s unrealized gains – such as after unrealized loss or charitable gift. However, refunds would first offset any remaining installment payments of minimum tax before being refundable in cash

[larry_vw_1955]

If a very wealthy man is affected by the tax after having unrealized profit but later as he did not convert the coins to any other thing and the coin price reduces and the wealthy person is having unrealized loss. The tax would be given back monthly in the way they were collected or in the way it is appropriate?

https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/General-Explanations-FY2025.pdf

Uncredited prepayments would be available to be credited against capital gains taxes due upon realization of gains, to the extent that the amount of uncredited prepayments, reduced by the cumulative amount of unpaid installments of the minimum tax (net uncredited prepayments), exceeds 25 percent of unrealized gains. Refunds would be provided to the extent that net uncredited prepayments exceed the long-term capital gains rate (inclusive of applicable surtaxes) times the taxpayer’s unrealized gains – such as after unrealized loss or charitable gift. However, refunds would first offset any remaining installment payments of minimum tax before being refundable in cash

What does that even mean though. I'm not sure that really addresses the question of "if my bitcoin goes up in value and i have to pay an unrealized capital gain and then in the future it goes back down to where it was in the first place do i get all my money back?" people are probably better off not even asking such a question since we all know no one is going to get any type of refund. that's just not how the government works when it taxes people on gains.

[zasad@]

why should i feel sorry for huge companies like that though. they have overpriced products anyway.

So that's the main problem, that any indulgence in taxes is paid for by the consumer of the products or services or in simple words US citizens and non-residents will pay for it.

If you understand this as a US citizen or as a person who lives in the US, why would you vote for Kamala Harris? It turns out she is telling people not to vote for her, otherwise they prices in the US will only go up.

[stompix]

What does that even mean though. I'm not sure that really addresses the question of "if my bitcoin goes up in value and i have to pay an unrealized capital gain and then in the future it goes back down to where it was in the first place do i get all my money back?" people are probably better off not even asking such a question since we all know no one is going to get any type of refund. that's just not how the government works when it taxes people on gains.

Again with the doom and gloom and how everything the government does is evil?
https://www.irs.gov/statistics/returns-filed-taxes-collected-and-refunds-issued

More than 213.3 million returns and other forms were filed electronically. These represented 78.6 percent of all filings. For individual tax returns, 90.7 percent were filed electronically. The IRS issued 120.9 million refunds to individuals in FY 2023, amounting to more than $461.2 billion

People are getting refunds every year, millions do, people involved in crypto got refunds, people on this forum got refunds, and you can even mandate Coinbase to have your tax refund from the IRS handed to you in crypto 
So let's stop with the tinfoil hat, right?

[avikz]

This is known as a "wealth tax," and the goal is to tax wealthy households that increasingly avoid taxation by living off unsold and unrealized assets.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kamala-harris-supports-tax-unrealized-193900073.html

how anyone could be against this is mind boggling. do you want the ultra wealthy to keep paying no taxes? how about lets have them paying taxes on all their huge assets that they have been evading taxes on for a long time by playing games?  

that's what is wrong with this society is these ultra high net worth idiots take control of everything and pay no unrealized capital gains on it and just sit on it. so if they try and own bitcoin, i want them paying unrealized capital gains on it too! 

if Kamala Harris had shown support on such taxation, I would say her chance to win the election is pretty slim. But I fully support such initiatives because it targets the individuals with over 100 million USD networth. So it will not impact the majority of the households in the US.

I strongly believe that all countries need to implement such taxation system which imposes higher tax percentage for the ultra rich people. But then US would face significant challenges with rich people migrating out of the US and move to tax heavens.

[ellie888]

This is known as a "wealth tax," and the goal is to tax wealthy households that increasingly avoid taxation by living off unsold and unrealized assets.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kamala-harris-supports-tax-unrealized-193900073.html

how anyone could be against this is mind boggling. do you want the ultra wealthy to keep paying no taxes? how about lets have them paying taxes on all their huge assets that they have been evading taxes on for a long time by playing games?  

that's what is wrong with this society is these ultra high net worth idiots take control of everything and pay no unrealized capital gains on it and just sit on it. so if they try and own bitcoin, i want them paying unrealized capital gains on it too! 

I completely agree with you! It's ridiculous that the ultra-wealthy can avoid paying taxes by holding onto their assets. A wealth tax on unrealized capital gains is a step in the right direction towards creating a more fair and equitable tax system. It's not like they're hurting for cash, and it's about time they contribute their fair share.

[mindrust]

It always start like this:

"Uh they are only taxing the super rich, you see there is nothing to worry about."

The same people said the same thing when income tax was introduced for the first time:

"They are only taxing a few percent of your income c'mon it is not that bad!"

...

Stockholm Syndrome they call it.

Symptoms and behaviors
Victims of the formal definition of Stockholm syndrome develop "positive feelings toward their captors and sympathy for their causes and goals, and negative feelings toward the police or authorities".[4] These symptoms often follow escaped victims back into their previously ordinary lives.[15]

Hey look, Kabala is taxing these guys but it is for our own good. Let her tax people even more. She is tha best commie.

[philipma1957]

There are two main problems with this type of measure:

1) They achieve the opposite effect.
2) What is initially intended to tax billionaires ends up being lowered and applied to the entire population.

1) Billionaires who are going to be robbed of 25% of their wealth without having made any gain will normally use all the legal tools they have to avoid it, and if not, they will leave the country.

When a 75% tax was introduced in France, celebrities such as the actor Gerard Depardieu left the country and then:

France forced to drop 75% supertax after meagre returns

This is known as a "wealth tax,"

They seem to have learned nothing from history. You should only have looked at what happened in Europe, where many countries imposed it, not only France, and look:

"The wealth tax has disappeared from all EU countries except Spain"

2) The income tax was introduced in the USA as a temporary measure after the civil war, and only applied to the richest 3%:

How President Taft Established Income Tax

this is real simple usa billionaires have scored since Nixon which was the beginning of the end of the dollar when Nixon cut rich peoples taxes and unleashed gold for investors.

so from 1968 to 2024 the ultra wealth in the USA have underpaid.

The middle class got cut hard


and the poor well they stayed poor.


(1993 to 1998 under Clinton the middle class got relief).


The rich need a hard core tax for 1 or 2 or 3 years.

The middle class needs a break for 4-5 years

the poor they will likely stay poor


Do I think Harris will pull this off no.

But I know Trump will help the rich more than Harris.

So if you are rich vote Trump and if you are not rich vote Harris.


No more complex than that.


BTW most likely either winner will just fuck the middle class.

[larry_vw_1955]

I completely agree with you! It's ridiculous that the ultra-wealthy can avoid paying taxes by holding onto their assets. A wealth tax on unrealized capital gains is a step in the right direction towards creating a more fair and equitable tax system. It's not like they're hurting for cash, and it's about time they contribute their fair share.

Exactly. I'm glad someone agrees with me. Here is another huge loophole that I know some real estate gurus are using too: they take loans against their properties TAX FREE. It's called refinancing and they don't have to pay a single penny when they pull out millions of dollars cash into their bank account. They're always bragging about it too. There needs to be some type of tax on that type of thing. Because all they're doing is getting a cash advance on their future rent payments. Tax free!

I guess someone could do the same thing with bitcoin. Take a loan against your holdings in bitcoin and not have to pay a penny in taxes. But I consider that to be different since you don't have someone paying back the loan for you.

People are getting refunds every year, millions do, people involved in crypto got refunds, people on this forum got refunds, and you can even mandate Coinbase to have your tax refund from the IRS handed to you in crypto  
So let's stop with the tinfoil hat, right?

People getting refunds from the IRS doesn't prove anything except that the IRS was holding on to THEIR money earning interest on THEIR money until they got it back. You don't seem to understand that when someone gets a tax refund, that means they paid too much and the IRS was able to make money off of them. And we're supposed to thank the IRS for giving them their own money back that they held hostage for that entire tax year?

How come the IRS doesn't have to pay interest on the money they over collected when they charge taxpayers interest on the amount of taxes they underpaid? 

[zasad@]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/what-kamala-harris-tax-armageddon-cost-you-us-economy
Here's what Kamala Harris' tax Armageddon will cost you and the US economy
"Gov. Tim Walz says a Harris administration would have no place in Americans' bedrooms. But judging by what we know from the Harris tax plan, it would have a bigger place than ever in our wallets and bank accounts.

Harris is proposing a $5 trillion tax increase, the biggest in American history. If passed, it would fundamentally reshape the American economy and the scale in which the government extracts funds from citizens. Her plans include:

Raising the corporate tax rate from 21% to 28%: This 33% tax hike would make American businesses less competitive globally. Combined with state levies, it would make American corporations among the highest taxed in the developed world. The country would return to the bad old days of corporate inversions, where businesses flee offshore to reduce their tax costs."

Why do this before the elections?

[Poker Player]

Raising the corporate tax rate from 21% to 28%: This 33% tax hike would make American businesses less competitive globally. Combined with state levies, it would make American corporations among the highest taxed in the developed world. The country would return to the bad old days of corporate inversions, where businesses flee offshore to reduce their tax costs."

Why do this before the elections?

Because the public to which she appeals is not that of the big corporations but the ones that live depending on the state or aspire to live from it. She does it with a rhetoric against the rich based on the fallacy of wealth as a pie, which is typical of social-communist regimes: they think (or say) that for one to become rich the others have to become poor, brilliantly exemplified by Michelle Obama when she said that her parents did not trust those who took more than they should. But to her, her $70M of wealth doesn't seem like taking too much. They always do the same thing, the evil rich guy is the other guy, even if I'm just as rich or richer than they are.

[larry_vw_1955]

The country would return to the bad old days of corporate inversions, where businesses flee offshore to reduce their tax costs."

they've already done that or maybe you just haven't been noticing how places like amazon when you call them on the phone who are you talking to? that's right. not an american. not someone living here in the usa. i am all for taxing the shit out of big corporations. so if that's ms. harris' plan then good on her.

Why do this before the elections?

because it's something that needs to be done ASAP. as soon as possible. so talking about it right now means she can just do it immediately if she gets elected which cuts down on any delays.

it's like we pretend like all these big companies are just loyal to the usa. they don't give a crap about the usa and employing usa citizens.

there's too many rich people here in this country with way too much money and they don't even know what to do with it. that's their biggest problem, if you can believe that. let's tax some of that away.