Is a game with a fully tradable digital currency possible or just a dream?

[legiteum]

The answer is yes, absolutely and in fact it's the only way it will be done in the future.

But...

No blockchain-based digital currency architecture will ever be fast enough or scale well enough to be embedded in a real game. It's just too slow and too expensive.

The Haypenny engine returns transactions in under 5ms internal time, meaning your game server can fully execute a transaction without about 40ms with your network round trip. And the system can scale to millions of transactions per second, so we can run, basically, all of the world's games if we had to.

And the Haypenny engine is effectively free for anybody to use, including a game system. We charge $0.005 per transaction, but that is charged in your own currency, meaning that it your game's currency isn't yet negotiable, then you can use the system effectively for free. (If your game gets really popular and people start wanting to trade your game's currency for Bitcoin or USD, then... we both win ).

[betswift]

The answer is yes, absolutely and in fact it's the only way it will be done in the future.

But...

No blockchain-based digital currency architecture will ever be fast enough or scale well enough to be embedded in a real game. It's just too slow and too expensive.

The Haypenny engine returns transactions in under 5ms internal time, meaning your game server can fully execute a transaction without about 40ms with your network round trip. And the system can scale to millions of transactions per second, so we can run, basically, all of the world's games if we had to.

And the Haypenny engine is effectively free for anybody to use, including a game system. We charge $0.005 per transaction, but that is charged in your own currency, meaning that it your game's currency isn't yet negotiable, then you can use the system effectively for free. (If your game gets really popular and people start wanting to trade your game's currency for Bitcoin or USD, then... we both win ).

Are there cases like that already, or they are yet to come?

[legiteum]

The answer is yes, absolutely and in fact it's the only way it will be done in the future.

But...

No blockchain-based digital currency architecture will ever be fast enough or scale well enough to be embedded in a real game. It's just too slow and too expensive.

The Haypenny engine returns transactions in under 5ms internal time, meaning your game server can fully execute a transaction without about 40ms with your network round trip. And the system can scale to millions of transactions per second, so we can run, basically, all of the world's games if we had to.

And the Haypenny engine is effectively free for anybody to use, including a game system. We charge $0.005 per transaction, but that is charged in your own currency, meaning that it your game's currency isn't yet negotiable, then you can use the system effectively for free. (If your game gets really popular and people start wanting to trade your game's currency for Bitcoin or USD, then... we both win ).

Are there cases like that already, or they are yet to come?

Haypenny is brand new and still in beta, so there are no games currently shipping--but we know several are looking into this.

[betswift]

The answer is yes, absolutely and in fact it's the only way it will be done in the future.

But...

No blockchain-based digital currency architecture will ever be fast enough or scale well enough to be embedded in a real game. It's just too slow and too expensive.

The Haypenny engine returns transactions in under 5ms internal time, meaning your game server can fully execute a transaction without about 40ms with your network round trip. And the system can scale to millions of transactions per second, so we can run, basically, all of the world's games if we had to.

And the Haypenny engine is effectively free for anybody to use, including a game system. We charge $0.005 per transaction, but that is charged in your own currency, meaning that it your game's currency isn't yet negotiable, then you can use the system effectively for free. (If your game gets really popular and people start wanting to trade your game's currency for Bitcoin or USD, then... we both win ).

Are there cases like that already, or they are yet to come?

Haypenny is brand new and still in beta, so there are no games currently shipping--but we know several are looking into this.

That's awesome! Would like to see these games when they will be online and published

[goldkingcoiner]

~

If the games were somehow able to solve the bots problem then maybe. I mean an example would be Albion Online. I always thought it had a really great player driven economy but the existence of bots is driving (or has already) it worse and worse as it gets older.

But then there are also other problems like the management of the economy, price trading, and stuff like that which most devs so far have been pretty bad at managing lol. They also suck at managing sudden influx of players which can drastically affect the market, so it just drops. This makes people who play the game to earn just straight up leave and, well, that further pushes the economy down.

And in general, most crypto gameplay suck lol.

I agree. The biggest danger for cryptocurrency with real-world monetary value are bugs, hacks and bots. They could turn the cryptocurrency completely worthless, just because of a game bug that allows them to cheat.

You would need to create a centralized and custodial crypto which could be frozen or returned to a victims wallet (in case of an exploit). But that is not really crypto, is it?

[betswift]

~

If the games were somehow able to solve the bots problem then maybe. I mean an example would be Albion Online. I always thought it had a really great player driven economy but the existence of bots is driving (or has already) it worse and worse as it gets older.

But then there are also other problems like the management of the economy, price trading, and stuff like that which most devs so far have been pretty bad at managing lol. They also suck at managing sudden influx of players which can drastically affect the market, so it just drops. This makes people who play the game to earn just straight up leave and, well, that further pushes the economy down.

And in general, most crypto gameplay suck lol.

I agree. The biggest danger for cryptocurrency with real-world monetary value are bugs, hacks and bots. They could turn the cryptocurrency completely worthless, just because of a game bug that allows them to cheat.

You would need to create a centralized and custodial crypto which could be frozen or returned to a victims wallet (in case of an exploit). But that is not really crypto, is it?

..But it can be branded as such, as long as the marketing goes boom and the game is good (which wasn't seen by me neither in a combination nor one by one )

[legiteum]

I agree. The biggest danger for cryptocurrency with real-world monetary value are bugs, hacks and bots. They could turn the cryptocurrency completely worthless, just because of a game bug that allows them to cheat.

The major game platforms already deal with this in their platforms. EA Sports hosts billions of dollars in their internal game currencies on their systems. Hence they are already pretty careful. Using a "real" currency that is externally negotiable adds another issue, and they would need to add security around that, but the upside is that they could potentially profit gigantically if their currency appreciates like memecoins often do. (And yes, they would need their game to deal with... deflation of the currency but I bet they could figure that out).

You would need to create a centralized and custodial crypto which could be frozen or returned to a victims wallet (in case of an exploit). But that is not really crypto, is it?

Well, is using Binance to buy and sell crypto (which isn't really anything but entries in their database), "really crypto"?

The key benefit here is that in-game currency can be externally negotiable, making it potentially profitable to play a game (especially when the game is new). I bet people would love that.

[sunsilk]

It looks like this feature will be added to new games in the next few years. I had seen in a YouTube video that the new version of GTA game (GTA VI) interacts with crypto and you can convert the money you earn in the game into real money. Of course, I don't know if this news is real or not. But in my opinion, the combination of game industry and crypto can be exciting. But developers also need to manage the market value and tokens and influx of players.

I have also read that but it's a rumor and I don't want to put hope on it until it is announced officially. But for now, it's all about speculations that the GTA VI will be having its integrated in-game currency and I hope that it can be converted into real money.

Now, this is going to be the real virtual reality that we live inside the cities in that game and we're all transacting and doing things and having jobs to earn that money.

Well, it's a utopia to be honest but I guess that if the developers of it having loads of back up and sponsors will be making it into a reality. It won't just be needing millions in funding but maybe a billion or a trillion for it to make it happen.

[FortuneFollower]

Well, is using Binance to buy and sell crypto (which isn't really anything but entries in their database), "really crypto"?

The key benefit here is that in-game currency can be externally negotiable, making it potentially profitable to play a game (especially when the game is new). I bet people would love that.

If it really would be, and fair at that - yep, totally

[tygeade]

As someone who has liked anime and gaming since I was young, I've always liked the concept of being able to trade in game currency for real currency and vice versa, mainly because of a couple of anime I watched that such a thing is possible and it will also mean that people can actually really earn money from games and being a full time gamer was an aspiration I had in the past lol.

Trying to make a profit from playing a game is something that a lot of people who tries to do with game money anyway, there are many online games where the items and the money there worths something. Even the "knives" in counter strike worths money, or world of warcraft gold worths money as well, all of the things end up seeing quite normal situation and doesn't mean that it could be that bad if we could make it crypto.

This is very important because it ends up being a very good result, it has to be a coin that works very well, if it can be a coin that works very well and if it's a game that is loved that much then combination of those two things could be great. Imagine world of warcraft that has cryptocurrency in it, that type of thing would work amazingly. Unfortunately we will never have a game that big, with a crypto in it at the same time.

[beerlover]

You need to start by defining the "game". Because everything can be a game. Even this forum, where people are trading currency.

What you are describing is an exchange, and those need an exchange seperate license, no matter how badly you would try to disguise it as a "game". Even if that game would be downloadable from steam and had gta 5 type graphics, it still would be considered as exchange when you trade currencies in there. You might as well as why binance hasn't build a game where people can trade money like they would be in binance. Because if that game would glitch, they would get sued. It's hard enough to build working exchange as it is.

And if you are talking about that kind of games, ask yourself, why aren't people trading real money in those games right now? Even game skins are being traded in 3rd party sites because game companies don't want anything to do with that. By allowing trading they would need whole new section of people to deal with the exchange, and that opens a direct route for company destroying law suits.

If we will read and slowly comprehend what he was saying, we will know that the OP is talking about video game. You said everything can be a game? But, I agree on it. This includes trading a currency, as you also said. So a trading exchange don't need to disguise their selves anymore as one.

Anyways, in the world we are living now, we still have a separate game and one example of it is like I said earlier which is video game. Apart from a centralized exchange, there is also a decentralized exchange. This is the one that doesn't need a license anymore. I'm not an expert with this but I think it was only the API is the ones that is injected in the game to make trading of currencies possible, so it is still mostly compose of a game and not an exchange.

Binance didn't made a game, maybe because they are contented already with their own business which is an exchange. Blockchain or crypto-based games are not that reliable anyways. I think in Dota 2 on Steam, you can trade skins within their app but for those who do it outside, maybe they think it's much easier and less expensive.

[o48o]

If we will read and slowly comprehend what he was saying, we will know that the OP is talking about video game. You said everything can be a game? But, I agree on it. This includes trading a currency, as you also said. So a trading exchange don't need to disguise their selves anymore as one.

Anyways, in the world we are living now, we still have a separate game and one example of it is like I said earlier which is video game. Apart from a centralized exchange, there is also a decentralized exchange. This is the one that doesn't need a license anymore. I'm not an expert with this but I think it was only the API is the ones that is injected in the game to make trading of currencies possible, so it is still mostly compose of a game and not an exchange.

Binance didn't made a game, maybe because they are contented already with their own business which is an exchange. Blockchain or crypto-based games are not that reliable anyways. I think in Dota 2 on Steam, you can trade skins within their app but for those who do it outside, maybe they think it's much easier and less expensive.

I don't think you got my point.

Cryptos were a wild west for a long time, because we were under a radar and laws were just catching up. But now those days are coming to an end as we are in transitional phase. There's a good reason why bigger dexes are complying with regulations, and reason is not "just for fun". They are just getting ready because they know what's coming.

As a rule of thumb; if any Dapp if a dapp is for transmitting value, it will need money transmitter licence / crypto license at least in US, because they are going to be submitted to same AML laws as fiat exchanges. EU has their MICA regulation as well. Pretty much only difference between CEX and DEX from the AML point of view is DEXs is who has the the custodity of those assets. Swapping / trading / token classifications and tracking them are all in the interest of FINSec and others like them. So if an unregistered dapp will handle your money and it will get mixed with money laundering, your assets are going to be tainted and not accepted in anywhere.

[markm]

Actually not simply a mere game but an entire "metagame" has existed already for well over a decade with not just one, but many, fully tradable digital currencies incorporated: the Galactic Milieu.

In the early days (see the thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53329.0) it used Open Transactions to provide tradability, the better to permit Civilisations that built instances of the Stock Exchange city-improvement to optionally fire up a server of their own implementing exchange functionality, even one server per such city if they wanted to, such as if they wanted players' characters to have to actually be in a specific city to trade on that specific set of trading-pairs.

Eventually more platforms got involved, see for example the thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1112289.0, which spans from 2015 to 2017.

Many of the coins incorporated feature references to all this in their own threads, see for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg60540064#msg60540064.

You can find links on Makemoney Knotwork to the tokens implemented on the HORIZON and STELLAR platforms at https://Makemoney.knotwork.com/horizon/ and https://Makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar

Tables and plots of asset values dating back to 2012 are linked to from the page found at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

If you are forward-looking, you might also look into the forthcoming DMD Diamond V4 platform, at time of writing this post DMD is still in its masternodes based V3, but the forthcoming V4 looks to be basically a souped up super fast ETH-compatible platform with super-cheap transactions thus currently the prime contender as the next platform for the Milieu assets to spread to. Once V4 launches, V3 coins can be cloned onto V4, the existing exchanges claim they will handle that automatically for their users but it is not clear whether those exchanges will also give you back your V3 coins, let alone whether they will continue to support the V3 coins as "DMD Classic" or somesuch name once V4 becomes the new normal DMD.

The Milieu will probably retain the V3 DMD coins as DMD and create a new label DMD4 for the new V4 coins.

Part of the idea in retaining the V3 DMD coins is to make of them another "treasury based asset", which would make them useable in the game as something other assets can use in their own official "treasuries" and allow the (meta)game to compute value per coin rather than having to rely upon "price discovery" in "spot markets" to compute price lists and such.


-MarkM-

[ekotyo24]

As someone who has liked anime and gaming since I was young, I've always liked the concept of being able to trade in game currency for real currency and vice versa, mainly because of a couple of anime I watched that such a thing is possible and it will also mean that people can actually really earn money from games and being a full time gamer was an aspiration I had in the past lol.

Still the whole point of the post is that with crypto currency such a dream is not so futile anymore, I'm not sure if any project has fully integrated such but I've seen some close to that like Counter Fire with their ingame token supposedly a cryptocurrency but I don't know to what extent it reaches.

Anyway, I'd like you guys thoughts on this matter? Will it be possible to fully realize such a dream or will it just be another child's dream, I mean such a game will need a massive player base of over a billion for such a thing to be sustainable, so I'm doubting it's plausibility. Also, if any one of you guys has some info on that Counter Fire project please share, Tq.

Play-to-Earn (P2E) games let you earn real-world money by playing games. You can trade or sell in-game items or currency for real money.
Examples: Axie Infinity, The Sandbox
Challenges: These games need a lot of players to be successful. They also need to follow rules and regulations.
Counter Fire: If it’s a P2E game, it needs to address these challenges to be successful

[FortuneFollower]

Actually not simply a mere game but an entire "metagame" has existed already for well over a decade with not just one, but many, fully tradable digital currencies incorporated: the Galactic Milieu.

In the early days (see the thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53329.0) it used Open Transactions to provide tradability, the better to permit Civilisations that built instances of the Stock Exchange city-improvement to optionally fire up a server of their own implementing exchange functionality, even one server per such city if they wanted to, such as if they wanted players' characters to have to actually be in a specific city to trade on that specific set of trading-pairs.

Eventually more platforms got involved, see for example the thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1112289.0, which spans from 2015 to 2017.

Many of the coins incorporated feature references to all this in their own threads, see for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg60540064#msg60540064.

You can find links on Makemoney Knotwork to the tokens implemented on the HORIZON and STELLAR platforms at https://Makemoney.knotwork.com/horizon/ and https://Makemoney.knotwork.com/stellar

Tables and plots of asset values dating back to 2012 are linked to from the page found at http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html

If you are forward-looking, you might also look into the forthcoming DMD Diamond V4 platform, at time of writing this post DMD is still in its masternodes based V3, but the forthcoming V4 looks to be basically a souped up super fast ETH-compatible platform with super-cheap transactions thus currently the prime contender as the next platform for the Milieu assets to spread to. Once V4 launches, V3 coins can be cloned onto V4, the existing exchanges claim they will handle that automatically for their users but it is not clear whether those exchanges will also give you back your V3 coins, let alone whether they will continue to support the V3 coins as "DMD Classic" or somesuch name once V4 becomes the new normal DMD.

The Milieu will probably retain the V3 DMD coins as DMD and create a new label DMD4 for the new V4 coins.

Part of the idea in retaining the V3 DMD coins is to make of them another "treasury based asset", which would make them useable in the game as something other assets can use in their own official "treasuries" and allow the (meta)game to compute value per coin rather than having to rely upon "price discovery" in "spot markets" to compute price lists and such.


-MarkM-

Wow. Thanks for the heads up!
It's really interesting that these concepts were so quite a while ago, yet they gain traction and momentum just now.
I will definitely look at these in the near future. You are a legend!

[JellyJ]

I believe crypto gaming would be achievable in the near future. All it needed is a big studio like Activision, Blizzard or something to adopt it and it would boom. Better look at it

[crwth]

Counter fire? Is this collaboration with Counterstrike versus Crossfire? This is funny.

I don’t think having a fully tradable digital currency is impossible, but isn’t it already being done using crypto? It is better to elaborate on how it will be defined and what makes it hard to implement. I don’t know why it is a dream because I think some games already have it, especially if it is on web3.