Blockchain as a signaling network for “dark deeds”

[DrBeer]

In light of today's “tricks” with messengers and other social networks, and their use for “bad deeds”, a thought came to mind.

What if the blockchain of bitcoin or other mass cryptocurrencies are used as a “signaling network” and to organize the interaction of not very good things, not very good people ? Could this affect cryptocurrencies in general ? And won't blockchain technology be on the verge of total control, if not extinction?

Let me explain what this is about.

Many people realize, especially today, that messengers and other channels of interaction are always under special control of all sorts of government and not so governmental services. The reason is banal - through such systems people interact with whom there is objective and subjective interest of both states and individual groups.

And here came to me the thought - and whether blockchain is not used to transmit “signals” for, for example, coordination of actions of some people, organizations, ..... Inexpensive, undetectable, and really anonymous !
For example, a wallet is created, which is monitored by a group of people. And they know - if the wallet appears for example 200924 satoshi - then on September 20, 24 that we do something previously planned. Or it's not noticeable at all - 117 satoshis arrived, so we do what we planned on September 20, 24. And if 319 satoshis - then “cancel and go away” until the next transaction, which will carry corrective/informational data. To monitor such transactions, and most importantly to analyze - JUST IMPOSSIBLE !

Your opinion ? Interested not only in the possibility of realizing such a system (it is possible, especially on fast blockchains), but also in the implications for the crypto world as a whole ? And also thoughts on the potential probability of detection of such transactions ?

[Saint-loup]

Well anyone could create an account on an social network, a forum or any other platform offering to post public messages on internet and it would get the same effetcs and consequences in the end. The only difference is that blockchain is uncensorable and nothing written onto it can be deleted or mutated and tampered. So it would only address specific cases where a 100% reliability of the communication channel is needed.
Besides that you can write small messages on the Bitcoin blockchain thanks to the OP_RETURN parameter, some tools allow to do it :
https://d-central.tech/etching-your-mark-writing-on-the-bitcoin-blockchain/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228744.0

[Odohu]

Every technology comes with its challenges and blockchain technology is no exception. Bad players will always explore every avenue they see to achieve their target but what I will not accept is thinking that blockchain technology was created for only bad purposes as some people think or that because  some bad players use Bitcoin too therefore is for such purpose mainly. Even fiat system is being used for all the wrong purposes which Bitcoin is being accused of.

[DrBeer]

Well anyone could create an account on an social network, a forum or any other platform offering to post public messages on internet and it would get the same effetcs and consequences at the end. The only difference is that blockchain is uncensorable and nothing written onto it can be deleted or mutated and tampered. So it would only address specific cases where a 100% reliability of the communication channel is needed.
Besides that you can write small messages on the Bitcoin blockchain thanks to the OP_RETURN parameter, some tools allow to do it :
https://d-central.tech/etching-your-mark-writing-on-the-bitcoin-blockchain/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228744.0

The thing is that social networks are globally centralized systems that will give out all the information about the account, including IP, platform, and a lot of other things we don't know about. Blockchain does not have your fingerprints, which is why it is more “safe” for such transactions - there is no one to ask who sent or who viewed the transaction

[Saint-loup]

The thing is that social networks are globally centralized systems that will give out all the information about the account, including IP, platform, and a lot of other things we don't know about. Blockchain does not have your fingerprints, which is why it is more “safe” for such transactions - there is no one to ask who sent or who viewed the transaction

Theoritically you're right but you shouldn't forget that several blockchain analyst companies are accumulating informations and tracking transactions in order to unmask people's identity behind Bitcoin addresses. We don't even know if they strictly respect the laws from the countries where they are incorporated, for this purpose, but usually laws are less severe regarding privacy protection of citizens from other countries living abroad (non citizens neither residents). On top of that they often closely work with government administrations so they don't really care of being at the border of laws, unlike social media platforms which must be very cautious about privacy datas. So with TOR or even a good VPN, I think you are rather safe but anyone can anonymously use internet from a library or a random internet café.

[vjudeu]

Blockchain does not have your fingerprints

Oh, it is not that simple. For example, if you will use testnet4, then currently, I can see only five nodes, so whoever send it, the origin of the transaction would be just one of those five IPs.

And if you use block explorers, then they often give you a field called "Relayed By" with some IP address.

there is no one to ask who sent or who viewed the transaction

After a long time, when you explore historical blocks, it is often the case. However, if you have an active full node, then it can tell you a lot of things, about the whole traffic. Because it is not encrypted.

If you want to have a hidden communication channel, then just use Tor. In that case, if you have onion-vs-onion communication, it is much more hidden, than just a transaction relay in Bitcoin, where each message is sent in the plaintext, and you even have an IP address of the sender in the message headers: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Protocol_documentation#Network_address

[franky1]

The thing is that social networks are globally centralized systems that will give out all the information about the account, including IP, platform, and a lot of other things we don't know about. Blockchain does not have your fingerprints, which is why it is more “safe” for such transactions - there is no one to ask who sent or who viewed the transaction

yes blockchains can be used to trigger events without fingerprinting... heck take it one stage further
we seen years ago how a vending machine monitored a bitcoin address and when funds appear, the vending machine released the snack.. now imagine a bomb linked to monitor the blockchain that goes off when funds are seen..

other things like how segwit now allows any junk data to be appended to a transaction. you can literally write instructions into data that is encrypted which the secret reader can decode

the inverse though... the blockchain is immutable and data stays, so unlike some private social networks that organised criminals design themselves that dont retain the messages after viewing. everything on a blockchain is kept. so should a criminal get arrested and as a plea deal want to whistleblow on his crime bosses the criminal could reveal the process of decoding messages and reveal to authorities all the secrets and help build evidence to get the crime bosses caught.
.. in short, using a system that keeps records is not a good system to use.. real criminals that are tech savvi would rather design their own social networks which they only distribute between their criminal partners and those systems dont keep logs..

open ledgers that are immutable are also evidence gathering that can actually tie criminals up later when caught. though a blockchain does not ask for ID. if authorities later find a causal link between a criminal and a bitcoin address via other means.. then the evidence of the blockchain can then dig a deep hole for the criminal and lengthen their stay in prison

[DrBeer]

The thing is that social networks are globally centralized systems that will give out all the information about the account, including IP, platform, and a lot of other things we don't know about. Blockchain does not have your fingerprints, which is why it is more “safe” for such transactions - there is no one to ask who sent or who viewed the transaction

Theoritically you're right but you shouldn't forget that several blockchain analyst companies are accumulating informations and tracking transactions in order to unmask people's identity behind Bitcoin addresses. We don't even know if they strictly respect the laws from the countries where they are incorporated, for this purpose, but usually laws are less severe regarding privacy protection of citizens from other countries living abroad (non citizens neither residents). On top of that they often closely work with government administrations so they don't really care of being at the border of laws, unlike social media platforms which must be very cautious about privacy datas. So with TOR or even a good VPN, I think you are rather safe but anyone can anonymously use internet from a library or a random internet café.

I agree with you that there are transaction analytics companies. But here you can create a separate wallet for each action, which is not connected with your other wallets. And the connection breaks down... In short, the realization is quite realistic, and the risks of being detected are very low.

[Saint-loup]

I agree with you that there are transaction analytics companies. But here you can create a separate wallet for each action, which is not connected with your other wallets. And the connection breaks down... In short, the realization is quite realistic, and the risks of being detected are very low.

But how will you get your Bitcoins for using them with your new wallet? They won't appear by themselves into your wallet when you'll create it, they will come from an exchange, a casino, a random crypto platform or another wallet. So the connections won't break down as you say, so easily in the end. If it was so easy to obfuscate Bitcoin transactions, privacy coins wouldn't exist, and those transaction tracking companies wouldn't exist either.

[bitmover]

I agree with you that there are transaction analytics companies. But here you can create a separate wallet for each action, which is not connected with your other wallets. And the connection breaks down... In short, the realization is quite realistic, and the risks of being detected are very low.

But how will you get your Bitcoins for using them with your new wallet? They won't appear by themselves into your wallet when you'll create it, they will come from an exchange, a casino, a random crypto platform or another wallet. So the connections won't break down as you say, so easily in the end. If it was so easy to obfuscate Bitcoin transactions, privacy coins wouldn't exist, and those transaction tracking companies wouldn't exist either.

You can use mixers to get more privacy over your transactions.

But to achieve a high degree of privacy you need some patience/time and knowledge to create your wallets and a nice administration of your UTXO. Spending UTXOs from different addresses can just break your privacy completely.  Or even sending to the wrong address.

[Stalker22]

Using blockchain to pass secret messages? Huh, its an interesting idea.  But gotta think - blockchain is public, anyone can see whats on there.  Sure you could try hiding stuff in the transactions somehow, mayyybe make it tricky to see if you dont know what youre looking for.  But I dunno feels like some hacker type would catch on, start digging into the patterns and  or what if theres a leak inside the operation? Whole thing gets blown wide open then.  

Im no expert though.  Maybe it could work if you were realll crafty about it.  But public ledgers and secrecy dont seem like easy bedfellows, you know? Youd need some wild encryption or masking tricks.  Even then, may not keep the smartest sniffers off the trail for long.  Guess it depends on how determined you are to make it work versus how determined any adversaries are to cracking your code.

[Ambatman]

There's no technology that can't be used for bad deeds
Humans exploit opportunities
Your idea can be utilized also in traditional system though public not everyone can decipher the meaning of specific amount sent to an account.
I won't be surprised if such has already been implemented through the Blockchain technology but

If we do fixated on the negative, Technology wouldn't undergo any advancement.

[DrBeer]

I agree with you that there are transaction analytics companies. But here you can create a separate wallet for each action, which is not connected with your other wallets. And the connection breaks down... In short, the realization is quite realistic, and the risks of being detected are very low.

But how will you get your Bitcoins for using them with your new wallet? They won't appear by themselves into your wallet when you'll create it, they will come from an exchange, a casino, a random crypto platform or another wallet. So the connections won't break down as you say, so easily in the end. If it was so easy to obfuscate Bitcoin transactions, privacy coins wouldn't exist, and those transaction tracking companies wouldn't exist either.

Options abound - mixers, swaps on decentralized exchanges... And simply mining anonymous cryptocurrencies ! If there was a desire and demand - the solution will be found !

[Mrbluntzy]

What if the blockchain of bitcoin or other mass cryptocurrencies are used as a “signaling network” and to organize the interaction of not very good things, not very good people ? Could this affect cryptocurrencies in general ? And won't blockchain technology be on the verge of total control, if not extinction?

You fear or idea as regards to the creation of this thread is not false but true, bad actors can use the blockchain as a means to send a message signal among themselves in other to archive any of their evil act.

The cryptography technology which is what every cryptocurrency is built on, works in a way that cryptographers can easily encrypt a plain text or words into a cipher text. These encrypted message or information can only be access, readable or decrypted by an authorized person alone.

If all that is possible using cryptography, that means that the thought you are having in your heard, @OP, can be archived and I fear if it's not even happening already. It might not be rampant yet because everyone is not a cryptographer and it's only a rich person that can  be able to hire and pay a cryptographer to do such work for them but if such action becomes too rampant and turns to a threat for the government and the society at large, it's going to affect the cryptography technology and this technology is the center on which every cryptocurrencies is developed, which mean if it's attacked by the government in other to bring it down, it will affect cryptocurrencies.

[Adbitco]

What if the blockchain of bitcoin or other mass cryptocurrencies are used as a “signaling network” and to organize the interaction of not very good things, not very good people ? Could this affect cryptocurrencies in general ? And won't blockchain technology be on the verge of total control, if not extinction?

You fear or idea as regards to the creation of this thread is not false but true, bad actors can use the blockchain as a means to send a message signal among themselves in other to archive any of their evil act.

Usually we know it's open to everyone and there is every likelihood for something usual to happened within the space, and of course it's just like every other currency out there which people are using to execute their evil deeds for instance, hoodlum and or hacker still can carry out the same effect through local currency. So in terms of bitcoin it creates lot of opportunities so is the opposite as well.

[SamReomo]

Options abound - mixers, swaps on decentralized exchanges... And simply mining anonymous cryptocurrencies ! If there was a desire and demand - the solution will be found !

Well, mixers are quite expansive for bad actors and I'm pretty sure they might not use those services too often. Well, swapping on decentralized exchanges can also go wrong sometimes as no one knows how decentralized those exchanges are. Only Bisq can be trusted in this regard.

Can you kindly explain in depth that what kind of anonymous cryptocurrencies you're talking about? Are you talking about the privacy centered coins like Monero or you're referring to other type of coins? Well, negative actors can even build their own cryptocurrency and blockchain from ground up for the malicious purpose if they want to.

[Darker45]

It's possible, but not a big deal. We're probably overthinking. The Bitcoin blockchain is decentralized and transparent. In which case, criminals might prefer doing their signaling on encrypted and instant messaging systems that let them erase the signals immediately after they're consumed. It's probably convenient and efficient that way.

I'm sure criminals are cooking up something right at this very moment. And they're probably using mainstream apps. It's not like the authorities are going to bang on their door minutes from now because they've committed the mistake of using Telegram instead of blockchain.

[Apocollapse]

That's why Nostr exist, it's an open protocol to decentralize internet.

There are many Nostr apps that people can use here https://nostrapps.com/

Obviously this can affect Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency, but isn't this already a normal thing? many people and medias are still keep attacking Bitcoin due to its privacy and decentralized. Many country still blame Bitcoin for consume a lot energy and used for criminal thing.

I mean, this is nothing new.

[yhiaali3]

But this is an incomplete messaging encryption system, meaning in the example you gave you say: "If the wallet shows for example 200924 satoshis - then on September 20th 24th we do something pre-planned", well what is this pre-planned thing? They must have met somewhere beforehand to make the plan, so the benefit of this messaging system is only: do it or don't do it.

There is also the time factor, what if there is a delay in the network and the transaction carrying the message does not arrive in time to the wallet? In congestion some transactions take hours or days so this would be a completely inefficient system.

[Doan9269]

In light of today's “tricks” with messengers and other social networks, and their use for “bad deeds”, a thought came to mind.

What if the blockchain of bitcoin or other mass cryptocurrencies are used as a “signaling network” and to organize the interaction of not very good things, not very good people ? Could this affect cryptocurrencies in general ? And won't blockchain technology be on the verge of total control, if not extinction?

We appreciate the fact that blockchain is an open distributed ledger, which means, everything that is happening there can be viewed by any one and there is nothing hidden with another agender different from the protocols of the blockchain technology gives, once it does not conform with the consensus, then it reject back any activity, which can not be altered by anyone because they are the fundamentals in which the blockchain was built upon.

In other ways, you may say that those with bad intention which use crypto to scam other ones using the same blockchain technology and that is only if you're not being aware of what you should have known about how the crypto network operates on the blockchain, anyone can come up with a deceptive lie and scam you because of your ignorance, which is none of anyone's fault, not even the blockchain.