[HZGROW] An experimental "growth fund"

[markm]

Re-reading the [I0C] I0coin - The Best Choice In Digital Currency thread in the altcoins announcements section of these forums I came across this:

To help support I0Coin, such as by providing marketmaking on the exchanges, I have created an asset on the Horizon network.

I have created an info page about the asset at http://makemoney.knotwork.com/horizon/assets/hzgrow/

I0Coin is only one of the growth-potential items this HZGROW fund bundles together, see the info page for info.

-MarkM-

In retrospect it was a foolish experiment, not in principle but in execution.

I mean look at that info page:

Code:

Makemoney Knotwork: Horizon: Assets: HZGROW

Here we provide a little bit of documentation about the asset HZGROW that is implemented on the Horizon platform (as asset ID 16540254334984622964).

HZGROW is conceived as fund that deals largely with growth assets such as stake-based cryptocurrency.

The asset consists of one million shares.

The value of each share is conceived as one millionth of the sum total value of the Corp's holdings.

The Corp's holdings will be inventoried here periodically as an aid to estimating the Corp's value and thus the value of each share.

Someone sent HZGROW 1500 HZ to enable creation of the asset, so it was arbitrarily decided then and there that the initial price of the asset would be 150 HZ and thus that the donor would receive 10 HZGROW reward for providing that initial financing.

Horizon held: 497

Bitcoin held: CoinExchange.io: 1.01754590, Yobit 3.07269585, Cryptopia 1.06902759 = Total 5.15926934

CNY held: BTER: 7091.979069

DeVCoin held: BTER: 164816641.269197

IXCoin held: CoinExchange.io: 824299.52849520, Yobit 112395.08227480, 116280.62171572 = Total 1052975.23248572

I0Coin held: Cryptopia: 118023.56091615

Cubits3 held: Cryptopia: 311666.15509662, Wallet balance 3917707.88318900, Wallet stake: 1159.35188200

GoldPressedLatinum held: Cryptopia: 2080.70376067

DOTcoin held: Cryptopia: 2528.31561616

Litecoin held: Cryptopia: 0.04845435

AXIOM held: Yobit 372643.03775885

AXON held: Wallet balance 199568.70012441, Wallet stake 2013.34000000 = Total 201582.04012441

FairBriX held: Wallet balance 219123.00000000

TeneBriX held: Wallet balance 131415.00000000

FederationCredits held: Wallet balance 6650.00000000

Does the massive glaring error (hint not your keys not your coins...) jump out at you?

IT SHOULD!

Try googling the various exchanges on which those assets were "held"...

...I write googling rather than visiting for a reason!

What a mess! Rest assured though that a buy offer to buy all of the outstanding "shares" for at least 150 HZ each will be posted on the HORIZON platform.

Followed hopefully by higher offers as we "sort this one out matey".

I notice that someone has an offer on HORIZON offering to buy 1000 HZGROW for 50 HZ each.

Be alert that quite some time (years) ago a holder of massive quantities of HZ happened along and "dumped" a whole bunch of them on the Stellar platform, trashing the buy-side of the HZ/XLM pair, so who-ever is offering currently to buy HZGROW for 50 HZ on the HORIZON platform very likely picked them up for 150 HZ each back when "everyone" was operating under the custom that since HZ kind of needs to be worth at least a cent/penny in order for it to be any/much use in building buy-sides on the HORIZON platform, one ought to post one's buy and sell offers as if an HZ were worth a penny or cent or so - whether you're Australian or Canadian or USAian or whatever. (Ballpark figure in other words.)

Trashing the spot price of HZ on Stellar though totally blew that whole idea to heck; "everyone" long ago by now should have deleted all their sell offers on HORIZON (all pairs there are vs HZ) lest insanely cheap HORIZON come along and buy everything...

Well that is a little background, hopefully I can provide updates as work on sorting this one out matey progresses...


-MarkM-

[markm]

The main purpose of going through this process openly is to step through the process so it can be an example, be discussed and become a record showing the future how it used to be done way back now.

I am not sure whether the process would be particularly amenable to being written in stone as it were in the form of immutable smart-contracts but possibly some kind of DAO-type construct might be suitable for such tasks?

Bear in mind that all these years of play-testing have been and continue to be experiment and prototyping.

Pre-alpha probably for the most part and maybe/likely for all parts.


The purpose of GROW was, pretty clearly, to serve as a component implementing a mechanic whereby various other components could help set up market-making so that potentially someday there might actually not only be "spot markets" but spot markets that might eventually approach sufficient efficiency to make the idea of actually using actual markets to "do price discovery" instead of simulating such markets (such as by use of a "treasuries" system) start to seem a not totally unfeasible idea.

Using "shares" to do that allows the other components to be affected by taking part, as for example if GROW were to become not just a "treasury based" asset but, further, a "reserve asset", meaning an asset itself eligible for inclusion in the "treasuries" of other assets, their own calculated value would be changed by any changes in GROW's value.

Such mechanisms serve not merely an accounting or economic purpose but also a causal purpose: vast swathes of the game can be affected by relatively minor changes elsewhere as it were. The FreeCiv scale of play already assumes, for example, that within a given "turn" of play pretty much the whole world can potentially hear about events in far away parts of the world; this mechanism allows economic events to have similarly potentially sweeping effects.

Evidently GROW had never been set up in the "treasuries" system, which for me is the handiest way to be able to compute a value per "share" for it; so now I have set it up in that but with nothing in its treasury yet and no "slush fund" account(s) yet; when I do set up a "slush fund" for it I will put all of its unsold shares into that "slush fund". (Currently they are I think still sitting in the "GROW issuing" account that "issued" the token.)

Evidently also, there is zero of everything at Yobit so presumably everything was evacuated at some point, probably during the "AXIOM blockchain has forked!" crisis that led to adopting the alternate chain under the new moniker AXON.

The first post of that thread is timestamped December 04, 2016, 04:07:36 PM but that does not specify timezone. I can still log in at Yobit though and maybe find history of what actually happened and when I do I might learn that they were already variously withdrawn by then or that they stayed there longer; that is a TODO.



First step: find the date of the Latest Rates that were in effect when that message was posted...

Thu Dec 15 21:05:49 AST 2016


BiTCoin held:

BiTCoin is always off at some exchange or other serving as "buy side" for something or other; none "on hand" so...

Consulting the in DeVCoins table, we find that at the time the BiTCoin rate in DeVCoins was 360453667.40766550 DeVCoins per BiTCoin.

So far I have not come across any evidence that Yobit ran off with any funds; the others BiTCoin was on all flew by night or whatever their excuse may have been, I cannot even remember details. So there should have been 3.07269585 BiTCoin left after the others all died.

3.07269585 * 360453667.40766550 = 1107564487.96081404 DeVCoins worth.

CNY Held: only at BTER so the moony most took a hit on that one.

DeVCoin held: ditto.

IXCoin held:

CoinExchange.io was another casualty, but the 112395.08227480 held at Yobit can be presumed to have survived; at least that much is presumably stashed somewhere and if so no need to convert those, GROW's "official treasury" can be set up with that many HZIXC.

I0Coin held: Cryptopia of course is still in limbo, won't know for a while yet how much if any of anything will come back from there.

Cubits3 held:

Cryptopia as above, but Wallet balance 3917707.88318900, Wallet stake: 1159.35188200 gotta track down that wallet, unfortunately with all the moving from home to home since then and gosh knows how many Cubits3 wallets stashed it could take a while to fire up each one; probably finding out how to use pywallet to just look at each such wallet and say what is in it would be a whole lot faster (TODO). Cubits3 are not a "treasury based" asset, so no conversion table on hand for them.

GoldPressedLatinum held: Cryptopia, thus limbo for now. GPL are not a "treasury based" asset, so no conversion table on hand for them.

DOTcoin held: ditto.

Litecoin held: ditto.

AXIOM held:

Yobit we can presume did not lose the 372643.03775885 they held and there is plenty of that available so no need to convert, GROW's official treasury can be set up with that.

AXON held:

Another find the wallet quest. Like with Cubits3 only that can show how much staking earnings it accumulated during whatever spans of time it spent actually online and staking and it too is not a "treasury based" asset so no conversion table on hand.

FairBriX held: Wallet balance 219123.00000000 no problem, can put corresponding HZFBX in GROW's "official treasury".

TeneBriX held: Wallet balance 131415.00000000 no problem, can put corresponding HZTBX in GROW's "official treasury".

FederationCredits held: Wallet balance 6650.00000000 not sure I have enough tokens for that, but maybe I do; TODO later.



Well that is a "first pass" at the finding of the missing half of the moony most, more news presumably to come...


-MarkM-

[markm]

Today is the 1st of October 2024, so the month-start calculations are now available.

I began building GROW into the system so can access its evaluation, but have not yet gone so far as to include it into the Latest Rates include-file since after-all I still have not really set up its "official treasury" yet; all I am accessing so far is what its evaluation would have been if the few things so far plugged in to its "official treasury" were in fact all that it actually "has in its pocketses", which seems to be far from the actual case.

Still, what I am seeing so far is a total "official treasury" valuation of 46081173.18341676 DVC, working out to 46.08117318 DVC per "share".

Evidently the system assumes a default number of "shares" for an "official treasury" to be one million, since as can be seen the computed value per shares is one millionth (rounded or truncated, whichever 'bc' defaults to when told nothing beyond scale=8) the total value.

So I don't have to go in and tell the system how many shares it has.

By the time mid-month-or-so calculation is run hopefully I will have tracked down what happened to its 3.07269585 bitcoins it once upon a time had on Yobit and plug into its "official treasury" whatever "reserve assets" those ultimately ended up as. Not bitcoins, unfortunately, as right about the time we first started experimentally putting this GROW thing together it became clear that stuff out on exchanges is not appropriate for use as a "reserve asset", exchanges are more along the lines of yet another "slush fund" not to be counted toward the calculation of official valuations.

An earlier post though shewed that mislaid BTC's value at the time as 1107564487.96081404 DVC, so divide that by a million shares to see the shares ought by now certainly be worth at least 1107.56448796 more DVC each than the 46.08117318 DVC each the current very incomplete calculation has thus far figured out.


-MarkM-

[markm]

I am pretty sure now that this HZGROW asset was created right alongside the HZDIA asset; clearly HZDIA I never even got so far as trying to assign it any assets to work with, I think before I got that far, while I was looking around for what assets I had available that could be put to work in HZGROW, I realised that I needed to re-think both ideas.

Part of the idea of setting up HZDIA as a Corp rather than simply tokenised actual DMD coins was the fact that DMD is a staking coin thus it seemed a poor idea for anyone to bail them in to anything at all if they were not going to continue earning staking rewards on their holdings.

So I was thinking maybe have a pool of DMD staking, and hold "shares" of that so as to accrue one's share of the staking rewards while one's actual coins were "bailed in".

I suspect it was in thinking about how to set up a growth asset, HZGROW, that the whole idea of not actually putting any "not treasury based" assets into "official treasuries" came about.

The problem being that unless we were willing to totally abandon any idea of ever being able to use "spot markets" as a "price discovery" mechanism it would likely remain necessary to have such "buy side assets" always "at risk" on various "exchanges" in order for them to be actively in use as buy offers on "spot markets" that aggregator/ranking sites such as CoinMarketCap keep track of.

So I basically moved on, and only noticed very recently that a few "shares" had actually been assigned to various accounts.

Searching around trying to figure out the current status of "the whole shebang" I have come to realise that the "dumper" who has vast quantities of Horizon's native coin HZ might actually have big gains to make, rather than the on the face of things big paper losses, from having "dumped" HZ down orders of magnitude on the Stellar platform; the fact that HZ thus became so ridiculously cheap that it is almost completely useless for building everything else's buy-side on Horizon means all the assets they bought ahead of time with their masses of HZ will, going forward, be likely to eventually sell for orders of magnitude more HZ than they spent on them.

So I see it might not actually be kind of silly to trash the price of something you hold vast amounts of; though I suppose in that case one then might wonder why not have spent all of it on other assets to later sell back for it? Diversification maybe, since if the trashed-price HZ turns out to be so badly trashed that it simply never gets used, Horizon reverting to an over the counter player to player "send me some of that and I'll send you back some of this" platform, its actual "markets" ignored/unused, HZ itself simply never used except for transaction fees, maybe the whole platform will basically become dead until some other game or something picks it up and tries to use it.

Horizon still works fine as a record-keeping media for the game, tracking the "official treasuries" and "slush funds" and so on, it might just never become a place whose "spot markets" are of any use to anyone simply because all of them force HZ to be one side of the trading-pair.

Maybe for dirt-cheap assets it could work, even though I think maybe HZ price has been trashed way down to even lower than what used to be the cheapest asset, DeVCoin.

Meanwhile I ran into a problem trying to get back into the Cryptopia claims portal, I had somehow gotten some version of an auth system to work to get in there originally but now neither google auth on a phone nor oathtool on command-line are succeeding in passing its auth check.

-MarkM-

[kickback]

Meanwhile I ran into a problem trying to get back into the Cryptopia claims portal, I had somehow gotten some version of an auth system to work to get in there originally but now neither google auth on a phone nor oathtool on command-line are succeeding in passing its auth check.

-MarkM-

Try using the "Authy" app instead.

[markm]

Actually that might even be what I did end up using, I know at one time I put it on a desktop machine here.

Unfortunately that machine migrated to another house but maybe next time I am back at that house I'll look into that, thanks for reminding me of it.

The strings oathtool uses don't seem to work in google auth so might not in authy either so likely I cannot just install authy here and paste the string in and I am not sure google auth even provides a way to export whatever string it is unsuccessfully trying to use.

-MarkM-

[markm]

I think I have finally figured out what happened way back when...

I believe while I was in the process of listing what assets I had ut on exchanges trading and so on, that could potentially be used as "growth assets" due to historically trading having proven very profitable, I noticed that at least one exchange had a rule that a normal user-account cannot be used to trade on behalf of other people; and looking around I believe I found that is actually quite a common rule on exchanges.

Thus basically that whole idea was stillborn, oops sorry simply cannot do that.

I just moved on, not uploading to to my webserver the page where I had been recording all those notes.

I think the only reason that page full of lists of stuff on exchanges was on the webserver when I went looking recently was simply that over time I had forgotten that among the pages of notes about assets was one or more pages that I had deliberately not uploaded; so at some later time, having forgotten that and just edited several such pages I just uploaded the whole directory instead of picking out just the pages I had just edited to upload individually.

Thus at some time along the line that aborted list of assets on exchanges came to be uploaded unintentionally.

I moved on entirely from the ideas of the HZGROW and HZDIA assets, and did not imagine anyone had come across them and bought any.

There had been a few HZGROW listed for sale though, and part of why I was detailing all the stuff on exchanges had been because I bought a bunch of HZGROW with some slush-fund or other and was trying to pile up enough potential growth assets to check just how much such stuff HZGROW would be able to afford given the amount of HZ it had gotten from that large slush-fund buy.

Basically HZGROW's "shares" should have been put into its slush fund, not left in the issuing account which became its "official treasury".

 

The game already "foreshadows" the concept of a "retcon", in for example such institutions as the Chronodynmics Institute and the Time Cadet Academy, so what I am going to do here is to "retcon", putting in place what probably way back then should have been done.

A million shares at 150 HZ each would be a total of150M HZ, but not all shares were ever sold; those unsold I am moving to a "GROW slush fund" account.

Those sold would have yielded HZ with which to buy assets to put into GROW's "official treasury".

Back then everything was being priced based on a convention that HZ was going to have to be worth a penny in order for the number of HZ in existence, let alone only those actually so far involved in the game, to be enough to build decent "buy sides" for everything.

Using the values show in the Latest Rates in effect at that time I can calculate that the penny I used back then to come up with prices in HZ had been equivalent to 3484.32055749 DeVCoins.

The HZGROW issuer account, NHZ-56FU-NSQV-GHYN-BS5HJ, still contains 502'784 HZGROW, out of 1M issued; so 497216 were sold or otherwise disbursed.

497216 * 3484.32055749 = 1732459930.31294784 DeVCoins worth back then.

Ignoring the fact that ten of those went to who-ever provided the initial HZ for creating the asset, and taking account of the fact that active trading on exchanges was not really an option afterall at the time, it remains only to pick up that much worth - at that Latest Rates include-file prices - of assets suitable for choosing as "growth assets"; which commends to my attention the "big seven" finance Corps:

British Colonial Enterprises (BCE); Canadian Retirement Funds (CRF); GMC Financial (GMCF); GRF Financial (GRFF); General Financial Corp (GFC); General Holding Corp (GHC); and United Nations Financial (UNF).

I see though that http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/sharesindvc.html doesn't even track all of those, several of them not having existed back when the scripts for those tables were created.

So I will keep working on this, and anyone interested can check out at any time what HZGROW's "official treasury" contains by looking at the account NHZ-CS24-CJF8-2RSX-2EWD9 and check its primary Slush Fund by looking at the account NHZ-YFBR-ZJGJ-FJWV-7L9VC


-MarkM-

[markm]

Midmonth midnight just passed so I can now peek at what HZGROW's "rate" would be; it came out to 1733.83813993 DVC per "share".

That is based only on what is in its "official treasury" so far; the next step, having determined the official value, is to let folks buy a bunch of the unsold shares at that "rate".

Over half of the shares are unsold, residing in a "slush fund" that is not counted as part of the "official treasury" so is not included in the value computation.

By the time I run the month-start computation (done after General Hosting Corp posts owed hosting fees for the month just started) HZGROW will hopefully have sold a bunch of its shares from its "slush fund" and chosen how much of the proceeds to put into its "official treasury" so as to count toward the value computation.

Now that we are not limited to trading only on traditional "exchanges", it seems feasible that HZGROW ought to be able to retain a bunch of capital in its "slush fund" to use for trading, or probably more accurately "market making", just not on "traditional exchanges".


-MarkM-