Do signature campaigns silently go all-in?

[LoyceV]

Bitcointalk, for as long as I've been here, has been full of gamblers and gambling is and has been one of the biggest uses of bitcoin I know of

It's kinda funny: the VCR was made popular by porn, for Bitcoin it's gambling.

[rdluffy]

I believe that casinos are already well known around here, and whenever there is a new company, or one that needs more visibility, they advertise in the forum along with the subscription campaigns, maybe this is the first place where they think about

One difficulty I see for other companies advertising here is the inability to directly measure the return they can provide in the short term. It's very difficult to know this from a short campaign, for example

Some casinos have been around for a few years and have expanded their campaigns, appearing here more and more

I tend to defend the forum obviously, but several companies could advertise here and strengthen the brand even more. Harwallet companies, BTC or altcoin miners, exchanges, etc...
Even though there are social networks today, with a lot of dynamism, here is still the forum that Satoshi created, here there are still discussions that are very relevant to BTC, there are excellent users, it is a very good source of information that is difficult to find on other pages

[apogio]

Who's going to pay for those ads?

I seriously don't know Loyce. I mean, I understand your point, but don't you agree that it's a problem? It's probably because of the profit margins. To be able to pay for ads, you need to have income or at least a solid revenue.

Others who know, likely do not see value, because, the number of overall visitors to this forum per day is too poor.

Hi! Are you sure about that? I mean, I don't know how many visitors this forum has per day. Do you?

That's actually a damn good question--and I think the bigger bitcoin "projects" like hardware wallets don't need to advertise on a discussion forum, which honestly seems like an outdated method of drumming up business.  

Hi! Why do you think so? I mean, I would definitely be interested in "promoting" (with or without money) a good hardware device. I mean, it would give a lot of newbies a general guidance that hardware wallets are better than many other solutions. It would be better for the community, I don't know if you agree.

Bitcointalk, for as long as I've been here, has been full of gamblers and gambling is and has been one of the biggest uses of bitcoin I know of, aside from the dark web (and I don't even know what the stats are on that).  I assume that's why there have been so many gambling-related signature campaigns.  They might rake in a lot of cash, but I think compared to other businesses they're fairly small-time and don't have to shell out enormous amounts of money to hire a bunch of forum posters.  Like I said, good question you're asking here.  After the caffeine hits my bloodstream perhaps I might give it some more thought.

Haha, you are more than welcome to let caffeine do its work and come back later.
But when you do, please keep in mind that even from a philosophical point of view, casinos make you lose money whereas bitcoin makes your fiat more valuable.

Even though there are social networks today, with a lot of dynamism, here is still the forum that Satoshi created, here there are still discussions that are very relevant to BTC, there are excellent users, it is a very good source of information that is difficult to find on other pages

I agree, but I am sure that it's because we are romantic bitcoin users. Obviously I posted this thread because I believe bitcoin projects can be efficiently advertised here, but many people say social media are better for this purpose. I don't own any social media, so I can't tell...

That's right, this forum is pretty much anti-anything that can be advertised, anti-kyc exchanges, anti-kyc wallets, anti trezor and ledger for their attacks on privacy, and the OP is anti-casinos. So what do you want to be advertised here?

I said though that I understand that casinos need to be advertised and, of course, I stand firmly against stopping them from being advertised here. All I am saying is that I 'd like more bitcoin services to be advertised too. It's a bitcoin forum, not a gambling forum.

[LoyceV]

I seriously don't know Loyce. I mean, I understand your point, but don't you agree that it's a problem? It's probably because of the profit margins. To be able to pay for ads, you need to have income or at least a solid revenue.

It's one of the great drawbacks of open source software. Developers don't get paid, miners walk away with massive profits, and the software (and Bitcoin) is a free market for anyone to try to earn money.

[apogio]

It's one of the great drawbacks of open source software. Developers don't get paid, miners walk away with massive profits, and the software (and Bitcoin) is a free market for anyone to try to earn money.

You are wearing a signature which is free, but it looks like a good service.

I saw this on the OP of the signature campaign:

This is a non-profit signature campaign launched to support a small project that I find very useful for every Bitcoiner, a project that has a great philosophy and that greatly values everyone who shares their views. You should love this if you like Buy & Sell peer-to-peer, No KYC, Non-Custodial!

I would love more and more initiatives like this. I know -and it makes sense- that people will prefer to get paid from a campaign, rather than do it for free. But we are in need of good services and showing to each other new options.

EDIT: I just followed your lead.

[dkbit98]

Is there any rational explanation behind the fact that a Bitcoin forum -I repeat, a Bitcoin forum- is full of casino signatures?

Sure there is a good reason for that, most casinos that are advertised in bitcointalk forum are using Bitcoin as one of the payment methods, and this could be the same with any other business.
I could ask you similar question, is there any rational explanation for many sport clubs to have casino sponsors everywhere, with shirts, stadiums and everything else having much more influence on people of all age.
There is a simple law, companies with most money will continue to advertise, and I see nothing wrong with casinos in bitcointalk.
I am not supporting gambling, but people are not supporting many things and they advertise crap all the time with their clothes, food, etc.
You buy a product than you support it, you buy some stuff manufactured in China, than you support China.

[hugeblack]

I agree with @bitmover but I think that the continuity of signature campaigns comes from gaining loyalty more than increasing the number of users, personally I used thechange and exch because of their presence in the forum which gave me assurances that they will not scam me for amounts less than $1000.
To get an accurate answer, it may be better to review the signature campaign data for the last 7 years, I think that for many years mixers and casinos were the only ongoing campaigns and no major services related to bitcoin have been announced here for a while.

Apart from mixers and casinos, the last long campaign I remember was coinpayments.net and Gunbot

[AVE5]

Your expressions has been on my thoughts for long now too. Maybe I should get myself convinced to some extend that casinos advertised here are purely crypto acceptable casinos which as an individual owned platform serves as medium of promoting cryptocurrencies at the same process advertising their own gambling companies in the bitcointalk platform.
I'm little missing if to think about advertising Cryptocurrencies who'd take responsibilities of paying the advertisment teams knowing that cryptocurrencies is a decentralized technology.
However, Crypto currencies discussions is an utmost reason why this forum was developed and obviously we've mostly discussed about bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies which is already and advertisement of cryptocurrencies. We're only privilege to earn here when the signature campaigns was endorsed to run their ADs and conditionally expected to compensate participants.

[TryNinja]

I think that the continuity of signature campaigns comes from gaining loyalty more than increasing the number of users, personally I used thechange and exch because of their presence in the forum which gave me assurances that they will not scam me for amounts less than $1000.

I also see it that way. Remember how ChipMixer was simply the number one mixer everyone used? They spent quite some money here, but I would say it paid off (for the time they were up running). If I needed a mixer, the first thing in my mind would be "ChipMixer", and their signature campaign was the main reason.

[LTU_btc]

Interesting discussion. Want to add something from my perspective, but it was such tough Monday that my brain refuses to work. So, it won't be deep insight.
First of all, we should admit that now Bitcointalk isn't same as it was 5 years ago. Traffic and activity is declining. So, I guess that business is looking for more effective ways to advertise. Also, I think that gambling platforms have a bit deeper pockets and bigger budget for advertising than some no-KYC exchange. After all, gambling campaigns probably is just more effective - we have so many people here who actually gamble

Yeah, it's true social media like Facebook or youtube have strict policies against the gambling related promotions that could be one of the reason why we don't see them but I have seen stake advertised by many creators like shoutout for them for being the sponsor of their video so they exists in social media too but in different way.

No, it's not that strict. Everything depends on local laws. If in your country advertising of gambling isn't allowed, then you won't see it on Facebook or Youtube. In country where I live, these websites is full of gambling ads.

[joker_josue]

Is there any rational explanation behind the fact that a Bitcoin forum -I repeat, a Bitcoin forum- is full of casino signatures?

It's quite simple: companies advertise to earn money.

Do you think that advertising on the forum does not bring money to the advertiser?

The cost of advertising on the forum is probably high due to the fact that it is difficult to control the performance of this advertisement. It is true that we have the number of posts and visitors, but is this information so clear that it helps to understand whether the campaign is advantageous or not?

[skarais]

~~~

I have never seen duelbits blackjack or monkey tilt in Facebook or Instagram ads.

I've found duelbits ads on Instagram and Facebook too, as well as on platform X. Maybe not as often as here, but this also depends on the viewing history which is then continuously recommended by the platform. They also attract gamblers to become customers on the platforms mentioned above, but only they know which platform is most profitable for them.

I end up wondering why most exchanges don't want to run promotions on forums. I know they already have a large client base without promotion on this forum, but their involvement in the community can help this industry grow better. bitcointalk is the biggest discussion forum they deserve, at least they need to consider running a campaign as a bonus for contributors on this forum.

[Doan9269]

However, my point is, is Bitcoin development so difficult? Is it a thing from the past? Nobody writes bitcoin-related software anymore? Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

Is it because bitcoin projects can't be easily monetized?
Is it because even if they were monetized, they couldn't have the profit margins that casinos have, so they could be efficiently advertised?
Or is it because only mixers could bring money to the campaingers? I highly doubt that banning mixers was such a powerful measure, that lead to the "all-in" from signature campaings...

Maybe if i could remember the last time i see anything bitcoin related being advertised here was when mixers where still allowed, but before then, if i could recall about exchanges and wallets like wasabi or so have once been around here, while regarding other bitcoin projects and software developers being advertised, i cant say much of them because maybe they already think github is there and will always be the first reference for any new update, while gambling platforms sees this forum as a trigger for traffic because of the numbers of people coming on a daily basis which they know could be a very good ground for them to achieve getting exposed to the world.

[un_rank]

There will be several factors why we do not see actual bitcoin projects advertised here. One will be that many of them are startups and do not have enough profit margin to invest into ads on the forum and those that do have enough to advertise on other social platforms with better results. I actually do not want a reality were we have actual bitcoin projects falling over themselves and throwing money into advertising as that will suggest there is a lack of originality entering the space.

Does anyone remember the type of projects that were advertised when theymos auctioned ad signature spaces? They could give us an idea if there are bitcoin related projects that were willing to buy a space but not go through the routine of weekly signature requirements.

- Jay -

[tabas]

I end up wondering why most exchanges don't want to run promotions on forums.

I remember when there were a lot of exchange campaigns in the past but I think when they're done promoting here and got the result that they want, they simply gone away and continue to run their ads elsewhere with another target market that they want which mostly are from social media.

Does anyone remember the type of projects that were advertised when theymos auctioned ad signature spaces? They could give us an idea if there are bitcoin related projects that were willing to buy a space but not go through the routine of weekly signature requirements.

It was just a few pages on the Auction section to see what they are at least for the year 2022, but upon looking at the last threads, they're mostly gambling ads.

[bitmover]

Is there any rational explanation behind the fact that a Bitcoin forum -I repeat, a Bitcoin forum- is full of casino signatures?

It's quite simple: companies advertise to earn money.

Do you think that advertising on the forum does not bring money to the advertiser?

The cost of advertising on the forum is probably high due to the fact that it is difficult to control the performance of this advertisement. It is true that we have the number of posts and visitors, but is this information so clear that it helps to understand whether the campaign is advantageous or not?

The amount of clicks the campaigns receive, where the traffic comes from, and the performance gains in SEO rank are all very easy to measure. Probably these 3 (and a few more) parameters are monitored by all those advertisers when they decide to continue to campaign or not.

There isn`t much need to display number of visitors per month etc on this forum. I don`t see websites doing that... there are other and more efficient ways to measure those metrics.

[KingsDen]

Is there any rational explanation behind the fact that a Bitcoin forum -I repeat, a Bitcoin forum- is full of casino signatures?

• Not all popular social media platforms advertise gambling. So, a forum like this is a nice place for casinos to advertise.
• Projects advertise more where they have good patronage.
• There are alot of gamblers in the forum and it is ok to assume that percentage of weekly signature campaign earnings for some people goes back to gambling in the same casino.
• Casino is a major adopter of bitcoin and cryptocurrency. I mean BTC has a good use case in Casino which is a reason for the marriage.

Maybe other reasons too...

[OcTradism]

Bitcointalk, for as long as I've been here, has been full of gamblers and gambling is and has been one of the biggest uses of bitcoin I know of

It's kinda funny: the VCR was made popular by porn, for Bitcoin it's gambling.

First Bitcoin gambling website is SatoshiDice.com but now it is Bitcoin Cash gambling site.

When that site accepted Bitcoin for gambling, it made big effects and brought more people to Bitcoin blockchain.
Bitcoin history book, page 101.

Besides developers contributing to the Bitcoin-Qt client, others were busy creating innovative use cases for Bitcoin. Code developer fireduck (registered on BitcoinTalk on 29th April 2012) created a ‘Bitcoin Casino’ website in early April 2012. On 17th April 2012, he posted on Reddit:
“I have been running a bitcoin casino for a little over a week. It has made 146 BTC with an investment of around 45 BTC to get it started. I don’t want to run it any more because I am concerned about legal issues.

• http://1209k.com/bitcasino
• http://1209k.com/bitcasino/report.php

~

The casino website became known as SatoshiDice soon after it was sold to Erik Voorhees. The domain address www.satoshidice.com was registered on 18th April 2012. Erik Voorhees announced the blockchain-based betting game on BitcoinTalk on 24th April 2012. Within weeks, the game was responsible for at least half of all BTC network transactions.

[cryptoaddictchie]

However, my point is, is Bitcoin development so difficult? Is it a thing from the past? Nobody writes bitcoin-related software anymore? Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

We have section for that maybe there are still some topics regarding bitcoin developement or those who write bitcoin related tech.

Btw. Im not sure if tokens using bitcoin network is somehow related cause Ive seen a lot of project advertised on twitter which gives emphasized on doing defi but on bitcoin network. ( but somehow maybe resemblance as altcoin instead as a bitcoin development)

[LoyceV]

First of all, we should admit that now Bitcointalk isn't same as it was 5 years ago. Traffic and activity is declining.

But the quality is increasing. There's still bounty spam, but the Merit requirements helpt. That's visible in this topic: 6 years ago, the number of posts dropped by 65% in the months after Jr. Members required 1 Merit.
You have a point though: after that reduction, the forum saw 124,306 new posts per week. We're down to 23,443 posts per week. Now compare that to the 353,813 posts per week before this change (and it was probably even more than that before I started keeping track).

Do you think that advertising on the forum does not bring money to the advertiser?

I think most campaigns don't last long because it doesn't provide enough revenue fast enough.

Does anyone remember the type of projects that were advertised when theymos auctioned ad signature spaces?

That's public data. This is the last auction:

Auction ended, final result:

Slots mBTC/slot Person
1 28 BetCoco
2 28 Hhampuz
2 28 Myleschetty
4 26 Alpha Affiliates