Do signature campaigns silently go all-in?

[Hatchy]

Sorry, all I meant was that justice comes sooner or later.

Yea I guess satoshi's initial objective was to create a space where Bitcoiners could come together to discuss their experience, problems and including the solution to to help BTC on its road to global adoption. The signature campaigns and other things which later became inclusive on the forum is what majorly drives visitors to the website and also traffic. Some of these business also adds Bitcoin to their platforms as a means of payment so partially they are Bitcoin companies..

Hereby, I don't talk about casinos / gambling anymore, but my final plea is: please, before wearing any signatures, just make sure the company is legit, no matter what their business area is. Don't wear signatures just for the money. Verify (as well as you can) the integrity of the business that you promote. Luckily, most campaign managers filter out the garbage and present mostly solid companies, but the past has shown that some companies advertised in here weren't as good as people thought they were.

Also you are very correct about this part as alot of people just wants to wear the signature and don't care to know a bit about the services they are promoting. Most times its a very necessary so you don't end up wear a scam project which might in one way get back on you. Like when there was issue with certain mixers(I don't want to mention name) you see how the participants were closely investigated by the authorities... Something like this should be more reasons why before promoting a platform you carry some research aswell.. it's also the job of tne manager to do same. But no one can tell when these platforms might decide to go rogue.

[joker_josue]

I also see it that way. Remember how ChipMixer was simply the number one mixer everyone used? They spent quite some money here, but I would say it paid off (for the time they were up running). If I needed a mixer, the first thing in my mind would be "ChipMixer", and their signature campaign was the main reason.

It's good to hear that a bitcoin related campaign actually led to the usage of the product by bitcoiners.

That's a bit the point. When a product is correctly advertised, it will have a predictable return, in the short or medium term.

Now, perhaps we need to increase the quality of posts and topics, to attract more users and new content. In this field, I believe we can all improve.

Make the forum even more popular, outside the forum. This could help attract more potential advertisers.

[tbterryboy]

Could it be competition facing each other causing this? I mean maybe signature campaigns are more profitable to casinos than any other business, or maybe there were casinos who did this, and other casinos are doing it for branding and competition reasons? Because there aren't like some hardware wallet companies doing signature campaign, others aren't following, but if one of them did a major one, then maybe others would follow.

I believe it's becoming industry standard, if you have a crypto casino, then you have a campaign here type of thing, everyone has one, so you want to have one as well. Other type of business in crypto do not have it here commonly, but casinos do, so other casinos follow each other.

Also, tokens have this too, usually at bounty board, not at services, but you can see plenty of tokens distributed by new projects to people who carry their signature as well, probably same reason as casinos as well, it's been done by others, so new ones follow. I am guessing the returns can't be really that big, how many people would gamble how much money for something like this, I bet if casinos put trackers and checked how much money is made from people who register from here, they will see it's just branding cost and not really profitable.

[examplens]

However, my point is, is Bitcoin development so difficult? Is it a thing from the past? Nobody writes bitcoin-related software anymore? Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

That's actually a damn good question--and I think the bigger bitcoin "projects" like hardware wallets don't need to advertise on a discussion forum, which honestly seems like an outdated method of drumming up business. 

Honestly, I've seen many times that the Bitcointalk community is seen as overly critical and possibly aggressive towards new services. I believe that this is one of the reasons why some new projects do not appear here, they do not want to go through harsh criticism at the very beginning.
Just imagine how much hard work the Ledger Wallet representative here would have to defend all the bad decisions they made in the last year alone. It's clear that they don't need that, it would just make them look even worse.

[LoyceV]

Honestly, I've seen many times that the Bitcointalk community is seen as overly critical and possibly aggressive towards new services. I believe that this is one of the reasons why some new projects do not appear here, they do not want to go through harsh criticism at the very beginning.

To be fair, the large majority of all new "services" that post here, are created by scammers. The few truely innovative new services I've seen usually get a warm welcome, and even better: they welcome constructive criticism.

Just imagine how much hard work the Ledger Wallet representative here would have to defend all the bad decisions they made in the last year alone. It's clear that they don't need that, it would just make them look even worse.

You bring up a good example of what not to do. If they'd show up here, they'd deserve to get a very hard time. They sold out their core principles to turn their product into a subscription model. I'd be more concerned if Bitcointalk users would suddenly turn 180 degrees and start defending them to get paid.

[vjudeu]

is Bitcoin development so difficult?

Of course it is. That's why we have more theoretical concepts, than practical implementations of many things (for example decentralized sidechains).

Is it a thing from the past?

Well, block space is more expensive, than it was. In the past, everyone assumed, that we can load a lot of stuff on-chain, and don't worry about it. And many services worked well, as long as the chain was not congested. But when the fee market started to form, then people stopped pushing everything on-chain, and started thinking about other solutions (which is not easy).

Nobody writes bitcoin-related software anymore?

It is easier to pump and dump a new altcoin, than to contribute to Bitcoin. And it is more profitable to do so, if you are the creator.

Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

Because if a product is "good", then it doesn't need additional advertising. People will simply notice it on-chain, and join it.

And if a product is "bad", then you have to convince enough people, to pump it properly, and then you can dump everything, when it becomes profitable, to just sell all of that, and cash out, by selling all of your easily-obtained ALTs for BTCs.

Is it because bitcoin projects can't be easily monetized?

If you have an altcoin, then it is distributed from scratch, and created out of thin air. Creators are then early adopters, who can early-mine or pre-mine a lot of coins, and then sell them.

On the other hand, if you have "Bitcoin project", then it is 1:1 backed by BTCs. Which means, that you have to stick to the rules of Bitcoin. Which is hard, because you cannot just program anything you want (because your changes have to be accepted by the rest of the network, and you need consensus for that), and also, you have to buy real BTCs (which is expensive).

[Synchronice]

Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

Is it because bitcoin projects can't be easily monetized?

That's a very good question. I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

Or is it because only mixers could bring money to the campaingers? I highly doubt that banning mixers was such a powerful measure, that lead to the "all-in" from signature campaings...

Bitcointalk was the only popular place where mixers could advertise. They were banned from Google and social media advertisements, so, where is the best place to advertise crypto projects next to them? Definitely a Bitcointalk comes to mind.

Is it because even if they were monetized, they couldn't have the profit margins that casinos have, so they could be efficiently advertised?

I think that the most legit answer lies in this question. They probably can't monetize it enough.

[OgNasty]

However, my point is, is Bitcoin development so difficult? Is it a thing from the past? Nobody writes bitcoin-related software anymore? Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

Is it because bitcoin projects can't be easily monetized?
Is it because even if they were monetized, they couldn't have the profit margins that casinos have, so they could be efficiently advertised?
Or is it because only mixers could bring money to the campaingers? I highly doubt that banning mixers was such a powerful measure, that lead to the "all-in" from signature campaings...

Well, this place used to be full of Bitcoin projects.  The problem has always been trolls.  Look at my Nasty project for example.  I raised $400 to run a home miner for the community, turned it into an organization worth over a million dollars, distributed nearly a thousand BTC to participants, sold thousands of physical coins made from precious metals, and the entire time all I've heard from members here is how I'm running some sort of ponzi scheme or scam.  Can you imagine spending more than a dozen years of your life running hot loud equipment in your house, paying all the electricity bills/air conditioning repairs, working with designers and manufacturers on products, dropping everything to engrave coins when they're ordered, responding to questions, and then have people leave you negative trust or bash your efforts as anything but altruistic on behalf of the Bitcoin community?  That's the environment people running Bitcoin projects have to deal with here.  The worst part, it's the people in default trust that enable and even support this behavior.

You will get lots of responses to your questions, but this is the only one that comes from someone with any experience actually running a real Bitcoin project here.

[Hyphen(-)]

I just assume about the reverse, I mean most other businesses except gambling must be making enough revenue without the need of marketing here; like exchanges, payment processors and crypto debit cards. This might be the reason, we are not seeing most other business are not being advertised here.

Nevertheless, gambling industry must be one of the most benefitted one from cryptocurrencies. Hence there would be no surprises on seeing more gambling houses are being advertised across this forum.

In my opinion, most of the gambling sites that are been advertised here are here because they have Bitcoin or cryptocurrency payments methods, and they are getting customers here on daily basis because people do play bet a lot; that’s why there is even competition between them just to attract more customers.

This forum is open for advertising anything that come its way, if it is legit, but the forum rules make it difficult for some projects or business that are shady to come here because they will lose every reputations they already have.

Mixers were advertised here before now, but it was banned earlier this year because of the type of activities that is not open to the public going on in mixers. Nevertheless, maybe other crypto related softwares, wallets, and others finds another suitable ways for their advertisement, but this forum is always welcoming them.

[Ojima-ojo]

Bitcoin is all about usage and adoption, and if you have looked closely to bitcoin adoption and usage you will fine cryptocurrency casino on the front line along with excahges and other services providers and for sure gambling is a growing industry that have adopted cryptocurrency on a full scale and for the freedom to get advertised here in the forum without restriction like their have on the other social makes this forum the best place for them to advise their services.


This doesn't other services are not getting advertised over here but when you talk about long term signature campaign promotion then give that to gambling projects, and that because of the amount of resources their allocate to forum promotion compared to the other services like exchanges or Wallet promotions that are mostly short-term in nature

[LoyceV]

I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

Asking the question is answering it: you already know them. Most advertising here comes from new sites who want new users.

[apogio]

Hi all!

Because if a product is "good", then it doesn't need additional advertising. People will simply notice it on-chain, and join it.
And if a product is "bad", then you have to convince enough people, to pump it properly, and then you can dump everything, when it becomes profitable, to just sell all of that, and cash out, by selling all of your easily-obtained ALTs for BTCs.

I get the point, but I disagree that good projects don't need advertising. Pumping and dumping wouldn't have been a thing if people knew how to be cautious against scammers. I mean if someone sends you an invitation on X, claiming that  if you join now, they will award you a huge amount of tokens from their newly created ALT, then it's your responsibility to filter this proposal and decline. Isn't it?

Is it because bitcoin projects can't be easily monetized?

If you have an altcoin, then it is distributed from scratch, and created out of thin air. Creators are then early adopters, who can early-mine or pre-mine a lot of coins, and then sell them.
[/quote]

Yeah, even ETH, which some people still think is a "good" altcoin, has done that. If I recall properly, the great majority of its tokens where pre-assigned to some people.

Well, this place used to be full of Bitcoin projects.

I 'd love to have lived in this era of the forum. I 'm kinda new here, so...

The problem has always been trolls.  Look at my Nasty project for example.  I raised $400 to run a home miner for the community, turned it into an organization worth over a million dollars, distributed nearly a thousand BTC to participants, sold thousands of physical coins made from precious metals, and the entire time all I've heard from members here is how I'm running some sort of ponzi scheme or scam.  Can you imagine spending more than a dozen years of your life running hot loud equipment in your house, paying all the electricity bills/air conditioning repairs, working with designers and manufacturers on products, dropping everything to engrave coins when they're ordered, responding to questions, and then have people leave you negative trust or bash your efforts as anything but altruistic on behalf of the Bitcoin community?  That's the environment people running Bitcoin projects have to deal with here.  The worst part, it's the people in default trust that enable and even support this behavior.

This hasn't blocked you from running your project though. Besides, your profile has too many positive trust notes.
Having said that, I don't think the community here is capable to actually prevent a good project/business from being advertised.

You will get lots of responses to your questions, but this is the only one that comes from someone with any experience actually running a real Bitcoin project here.

If you look back, don't you think that perhaps your ability to develop a project in here has been possible due to the fact that Bitcoin was more affordable to be mined back then? Without of course diminishing the effort that you 've previously mentioned.

That's a very good question. I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

That's what I also wondered about, but on a second thought...
They have their logos printed on the t-shirts of the best football teams!
They have banners all over the world, in significant buildings, squares etc.
So Loyce is right. They don't advertise here, because they don't need to.

[BlackHatCoiner]

There's generally less enthusiasm around the space, I can tell that. A few years ago, you would notice lots of topics about new stuff created and maintained, with fruitful discussion. Nowadays, it's just no longer like that. Bitcoin is seen as a digital gold, and that's pretty much it. Minimum cypherpunk spirit. This reality was extensively discussed in here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5497296.0.

Is there any rational explanation behind the fact that a Bitcoin forum -I repeat, a Bitcoin forum- is full of casino signatures?

Here's my take: This Bitcoin forum is full of people who want to get rich quick by gambling into shitcoins. If they can gamble on tokens made out of thin air, then they can definitely gamble on a casino.

However, my point is, is Bitcoin development so difficult? Is it a thing from the past? Nobody writes bitcoin-related software anymore? Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

Bitcoin development is difficult and slow, but what relevant product have you got in mind that could be advertised? For all I know, barely any open-source Bitcoin software was advertised here in the past, in signatures.

[apogio]

For all I know, barely any open-source Bitcoin software was advertised here in the past, in signatures.

Well, I was pleased to see this initiative: Non-Profit Forum Signatures Initiative [+ Overview]

I am planning to start wearing signatures from there, as long as:

1. They are bitcoin related.
2. The product / project is not a scam (or looks like a scam).
3. I haven't found a good paid campaign that strictly follows bullets (1) and (2).

[Synchronice]

I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

Asking the question is answering it: you already know them. Most advertising here comes from new sites who want new users.

Well, yes, that's true but wouldn't it be a prestige for any company to run a signature campaign and be active on this forum? I feel confident when I use service that's promoted here and has an active support from the company. It makes me feel secure about the fact that if something goes wrong, the problem will be solved with the help of the community.

By the way, even when they launched their businesses, they didn't run a signature campaign for the first few weeks or months.

That's a very good question. I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

That's what I also wondered about, but on a second thought...
They have their logos printed on the t-shirts of the best football teams!
They have banners all over the world, in significant buildings, squares etc.
So Loyce is right. They don't advertise here, because they don't need to.

I think that extra $1000 bucks (for them bucks) weekly advertisement wouldn't be bad. I think that they should try, run signature campaign and test how it works. Probably, their marketing department has no idea about bitcointalk or don't take it seriously or their current plans work very well.

[LoyceV]

wouldn't it be a prestige for any company to run a signature campaign and be active on this forum?

Take Coinbase for example. Google shows the current market cap is $50.95 billion and (in 2023) had 3,416 employees. They're on the stock market, that comes with corporate decision making. It's not a company where someone in the PR-department can easily get a couple thousand dollars per week in Bitcoin to pay for a signature campaign on Bitcointalk. Large corporations can't go around making anonymous payments to anonymous users on Bitcointalk. Some users here are from sanctioned countries, and sanction violation is not something they're going to risk.

[Saint-loup]

I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

Asking the question is answering it: you already know them. Most advertising here comes from new sites who want new users.

You are maybe right, but some casinos are way more famous than Crypto.com, Trezor, Bitpay or Bitrefill and they still have ongoing signature campaigns here. In addition it doesn't explain why less known exchanges or other non-gambling platforms don't advertise here anymore. IMO this forum is less reputed than it used to be because despite the merit system, some sections are still too much spammed for being interesting to read, or even to stay readable unfortunately.

[lixer]

Could it be competition facing each other causing this? I mean maybe signature campaigns are more profitable to casinos than any other business, or maybe there were casinos who did this, and other casinos are doing it for branding and competition reasons? Because there aren't like some hardware wallet companies doing signature campaign, others aren't following, but if one of them did a major one, then maybe others would follow.

I believe it's becoming industry standard, if you have a crypto casino, then you have a campaign here type of thing, everyone has one, so you want to have one as well. Other type of business in crypto do not have it here commonly, but casinos do, so other casinos follow each other.

Also, tokens have this too, usually at bounty board, not at services, but you can see plenty of tokens distributed by new projects to people who carry their signature as well, probably same reason as casinos as well, it's been done by others, so new ones follow. I am guessing the returns can't be really that big, how many people would gamble how much money for something like this, I bet if casinos put trackers and checked how much money is made from people who register from here, they will see it's just branding cost and not really profitable.

This is 100% the right reason. We are seeing too many casinos because casinos are the ones who share everything here, and since they know that their competition is here, they want to be here as well. I mean there aren't that many different type of companies in the crypto world neither, there are only three big industries that I can think of. One of them is casinos, the other is exchanges and another would be creating a token because devs are seeing that as a way of making money so it's their business.

Mixers are also another big one but we have seen mixers get banned here for some reason, and I believe that is why we have three big business's in the crypto world. Exchanges do not share here, tokens do and casinos do even more.

[LoyceV]

You are maybe right, but some casinos are way more famous than Crypto.com, Trezor, Bitpay or Bitrefill and they still have ongoing signature campaigns here. In addition it doesn't explain why less known exchanges or other non-gambling platforms don't advertise here anymore.

I always assumed casinos have much higher profit margins. Say someone wagers $10k at 2% house edge. That's $200 profit for the casino. Some users wager millions, which means tens of thousands in profit. Trezor may be able to sell 3 different hardware wallets to a very good customer, but that's where it ends. They need many different customers, casinos only need a few highly profitable ones.

IMO this forum is less reputed than it used to be because despite the merit system, some sections are still too much spammed for being interesting to read, or even to stay readable unfortunately.

I'd argue other platforms, such as social media, are much less interesting to read. But for some reason they have so much more users. I've even blocked Reddit from my computer, because every time Google brings me there, I get one post without the rest of the discussion. Social media have a terrible way of presenting data for people without any attention span.

[adultcrypto]

Most casinos advertised in this forum are those that accept cryptocurrency for deposits and withdrawals so it is not out of place to have casinos advertised here. As much as I know, there is no limitations placed on projects to advertise here beyond the mixers and the few other services we already know so it is up to the projects to chose to advertise here or not. We also have anonymous exchanges run their advertisement here too, so it is not only casinos that are running advert here.

If you don't like gambling, you could just avoid the gambling section and allow us that have that as hobby to enjoy the freedom that cryptocurrency offers as it relates to gambling because before now, it was difficult for us to play in international casinos, but cryptocurrency made that possible and even easy for us. Casinos advertising here is a major source of traffic now so it should be a welcomed development.