Do signature campaigns silently go all-in?

[dkbit98]

That's a very good question. I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

I can say a bit more about hardware wallet companies like ledger, trezor and few others, because I know people who contacted them for signature campaign promotion.
Most of them were not ready to invest amount of money needed to have serious signature campaign.
Best we got was small promotions and giveaways from Satochip and Bitbox, but maybe this will change in future.
I remember the time when Trezor team members and Keystone owner was active in forum, but they turned more towards twitter I think.

[LoyceV]

I remember the time when Trezor team members and Keystone owner was active in forum, but they turned more towards twitter I think.

Let me guess: they used the forum in their early days to get early adopters?

[Sexylizzy2813]

Well, this post's title is a euphemism of course, but I find it curious that the great majority (if not all of them) of signature campaigns advertise casinos and gambling.

Is there any rational explanation behind the fact that a Bitcoin forum -I repeat, a Bitcoin forum- is full of casino signatures?

I don't really mind the fact that casinos are advertised. Or perhaps I do, because I hate gambling, but this is a personal opinion and of course, I can understand that any company wants to gather more customers.

However, my point is, is Bitcoin development so difficult? Is it a thing from the past? Nobody writes bitcoin-related software anymore? Why on earth isn't there any good bitcoin-related product advertised in the forum?

Is it because bitcoin projects can't be easily monetized?
Is it because even if they were monetized, they couldn't have the profit margins that casinos have, so they could be efficiently advertised?
Or is it because only mixers could bring money to the campaingers? I highly doubt that banning mixers was such a powerful measure, that lead to the "all-in" from signature campaings...

It only shows you don't like gambling but it doesn't change the fact that it has been here before now, nothing is wrong with this. I believe if the gambling section or board is been cleared out you would still have something to say you don't like, there are some members on the Forum that don't like things you like or bring as the next option or as your opinion. If you talk about Bitcoin development I feel we have those who are good at it but bringing it out is a bit difficult due to things you made mentioned, people do write Bitcoin related software but I believe they hardly put much interest to continue or bring it out.

[alani123]

Sadly or not, when the Linux mailing list closed, the developers moved their discussion to Google forums (yuck!)
If you want bitcoin discussion to be moved back here you've got a couple of things to blame.
1. New forum software taking forever.
2. Bitcoin developers deciding to move their discussion anywhere but here.

There's still a handful of devs here discussing but the discussion has gotten too fragmented. GitHub, Google forums, independent mailing lists for Taproot/Lightning/Core and then you have Blockstream tech, L2s and whatnot. Most BTC devs also post in an increasingly fragmented social media landscape. Twitter/Mastodons/Bluesky/Nostr... Also include web3 and Lightning social apps in that and it becomes even more chaotic.

All this is very hard to follow. Bitcointalk failed the network effect to a large extent. Honestly I'd say the devs are in part to blame for this and not the casinos. There's so much technical discussion to be had and it would be beneficial to have it in one place. If even 30% of the technical discussion for Bitcoin was happening here it would be comparably big if not larger to the casino discussion. But also for a plethora of reasons many people that develop bitcoin don't want to speak to each other much these days also. Which is yet another issue.

Many people develop Bitcoin these days, more people than ever are receiving funding to do so even, but for reasons that are different in each case, many devs aren't on speaking terms. Go figure. One of the largest open source projects can't even feature discussions on its supposedly dedicated forum. The magic of decentralization is truly haunting sometimes. Props to all the coordinators of bitcoin core that are tasked to put things together.

There's also another point here that's actually serving as an answer to the OP that I'd like to delve in.

Cryptocurrency has got gentrified.

You can find discussion about it everywhere now. Facebook, Twitter, Discord etc.

Years ago much of the discussion around crypto was centered around this forum, not it's mostly everywhere else but including here.
Now since crypto is so accessible of course unlicensed gambling has become a very big market.
Unregistered casinos got their biggest issue solved for them without doing anything. Access. Now anyone can buy crypto easily and in most jurisdictions do so legally without any income checks. So crypto casinos help people evade the blocks their governments put on gambling. For example in the UK if you receive your income in undeclared payments you can't gamble, because legal casinos require income statements.

So really don't be surprised casinos are advertising here. Good on bitcointalk for not blocking them actually as Facebook and Google do. That was very illiberal for a service that isn't connected to real world harm and is in such high demand.

inb4 some people say it's ironic for me to say this while being paid to advertise a casino. Well, I'm not going to say no to some extra cash tbh. I'm not a huge fan of gambling either but what I also don't like is cost of opportunity.

ps. I'd really appreciate if some of these companies benefiting from BTC would also contribute here. Nobody seems to blame them for not doing so. Maybe we're a tough crowd either way.

[LoyceV]

So really don't be surprised casinos are advertising here. Good on bitcointalk for not blocking them actually as Facebook and Google do. That was very illiberal for a service that isn't connected to real world harm and is in such high demand.

You're kidding, right? Depending on who you believe, up to a few percent of the population is addicted to gambling, and that causes many problems. Gambling is designed to be addictive, while it's designed to make the user feel like they're "lucky", "in charge" or "good at it".
Gambling for fun is okay, and that's what most people who occasionally gamble do, but you can't ignore the large amount of people with gambling problems.

[alani123]

So really don't be surprised casinos are advertising here. Good on bitcointalk for not blocking them actually as Facebook and Google do. That was very illiberal for a service that isn't connected to real world harm and is in such high demand.

You're kidding, right? Depending on who you believe, up to a few percent of the population is addicted to gambling, and that causes many problems. Gambling is designed to be addictive, while it's designed to make the user feel like they're "lucky", "in charge" or "good at it".
Gambling for fun is okay, and that's what most people who occasionally gamble do, but you can't ignore the large amount of people with gambling problems.

No doubt gambling causes real issues but it's not a violent market like drugs, guns etc.
But also you have to consider that the addiction caused by gambling is very much a societal issue. If a government isn't willing to deal with it and let's licensed casinos fleece so many of their citizens then it would be the government I would blame first.

Most people that lose substantial amounts of money do it on licensed casinos anyway. They are SA companies too so you can see their income statements. It's crazy how much turnover they have. Most crypto casinos could only dream of that.

[Etranger]

Is it because even if they were monetized, they couldn't have the profit margins that casinos have, so they could be efficiently advertised?

I think this is the most logical explanation. Casinos advertise on the forum because they have the resources to do so. And they don’t advertise only on this forum; they have multiple platforms. At the same time, I wouldn’t say that they incur particularly high expenses on signature campaigns, considering their profits.

I’m not sure if it’s appropriate to compare casinos with Bitcoin projects; I also don’t think the latter have less money for advertising. But one thing is clear: casinos definitely see returns on their advertising. It’s much easier to click on a signature link, visit a casino site, and play a few games than to visit and try to understand complex Bitcoin products. Casinos can monetize user interest from ad clicks far more effectively, while Bitcoin projects cannot, as a visit to their sites doesn’t guarantee organic new customers. Such ads may simply serve to inform the audience that a particular product exists, without necessarily increasing the number of actual users.

[Perfectbaby]

Casinos are mostly advertised here because there is no restriction unlike social media because some country highly frown gambling and wouldn't want it to be advertised on social media, hence, here is a forum that is not mostly open to government or any entity for easy attack or restrictions apart from theymos doing that.

But then, here in the forum there are lot of gamblers and the forum doesn't frown gambling and sincerely gambling is another thing that is keeping the forum very active because most of the gambling site advertised here has gain trust from reputable users here and people can gamble so easily through the casinos that are advertised here than other places, even though there are local casinos but the cryptocurrency/Bitcoin casinos are mostly advertised here since here is the origin of bitcoin discussion and other altcoin it's ideal to advertise theme here to gain the attention needed and for their dreams to comes through.

Even though you don't like gambling or you not support gambling I must say, gambling is what that has been keeping our youth going and it's our core duty to maintain a safe gambling practice than easily getting addicted.
For instance, launching a bitcoin or cryptocurrency casino without starting their journey from the origins seems that they have not started yet and it's always a pleasure for them to start their journey here and even though they decided to leave after having gained the attention or exposure needed then it's fine. Again no manager or campaign manager tell why other services or project aren't launched here because they don't produce campaign or projects rather, it's the projects owners that contact them.

Like we know if there is any projects they will be announced here, and as so know no project that replace bitcoin can be created instead it would be alt (a kind of taped knowledge) to be like bitcoin but it can never be, so I don't think it should be a thing of concerned or something to beat us up.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Go figure. One of the largest open source projects can't even feature discussions on its supposedly dedicated forum.

There isn't a dedicated forum, though it might seem like there is, probably by the perception that Satoshi created this forum. In reality, all platforms act as decentralized discussion boards, which is why there isn't a single, official forum. Bitcoin has no central points.

But also you have to consider that the addiction caused by gambling is very much a societal issue. If a government isn't willing to deal with it and let's licensed casinos fleece so many of their citizens then it would be the government I would blame first.

Gambling was, is and will always be addictive. There's no government to blame about that, just as there is no one to blame about drugs being addictive. Government intervention cannot stop the inevitable; at some point, we have to accept that there are people in this world that can be victims of gambling. This is their problem.

The only thing that the government can accomplish by intervening in the gambling sector is create casino monopolies.

[Smartvirus]

Apogio raised some interesting questions in the OP with respect to monetization of crypto programs in respect to gambling casinos or the bookies and I think this is a good answer to that. One of the sole reason why your always going to find this and that gambling site in the business of signatures and frankly, I think it’s okay. Not just because I gamble but, it’s just business.

I always assumed casinos have much higher profit margins. Say someone wagers $10k at 2% house edge. That's $200 profit for the casino. Some users wager millions, which means tens of thousands in profit. Trezor may be able to sell 3 different hardware wallets to a very good customer, but that's where it ends. They need many different customers, casinos only need a few highly profitable ones.

Interestingly, there isn’t many places where we get to use Bitcoins and a couple of them Altcoins directly. Most times you do need the services of exchangers to have them in fiat and utilize it to solve a problem but, gambling sites avails you that privilege. They remain one of the few places you could actually utilize cryptocurrencies for a currency. That in itself tells you, they have a place wherever cryptocurrency is mentioned.
I haven’t seen them to have been over done in any case.

[Wonder Work]

Casinos are mostly advertised here because there is no restriction unlike social media because some country highly frown gambling and wouldn't want it to be advertised on social media, hence, here is a forum that is not mostly open to government or any entity for easy attack or restrictions apart from theymos doing that.

It is especially common in Muslim countries. Playing casino games is considered a crime in Muslim countries. And Muslim countries do not support casinos or this gambling game in any way, so they do not allow casino games to be advertised in different media of their country. But now it appears that so much ban means no less more now casinos and gambling advertise.

But then, here in the forum there are lot of gamblers and the forum doesn't frown gambling and sincerely gambling is another thing that is keeping the forum very active because most of the gambling site advertised here has gain trust from reputable users here and people can gamble so easily through the casinos that are advertised here than other places, even though there are local casinos but the cryptocurrency/Bitcoin casinos are mostly advertised here since here is the origin of bitcoin discussion and other altcoin it's ideal to advertise theme here to gain the attention needed and for their dreams to comes through.

I have seen no other sector where casino games can be played so beautifully without hesitation. I've never seen a system to promote casino sites so beautifully anywhere other than this forum. Although I am new here but as far as I understand and see this forum is one of the most important place to promote casino games from where many easy to play games from reputed casino sites. It has become such a trusted medium where casino sites are being promoted that big casino game players dare to play the game freely.

Even though you don't like gambling or you not support gambling I must say, gambling is what that has been keeping our youth going and it's our core duty to maintain a safe gambling practice than easily getting addicted.

The thing about gambling is that you can make a profit very easily with little effort, but here it is said that many people lose a lot of money from here, that's why many people don't like gambling, but if you learn well and understand it, then I think you can get entry from here. Easy to earn. Again, you can't be too greedy here, you have to stay within a limit. Whenever it is seen that you take entry in the hope of getting more, it is seen that everything including your own balance is lost, so I think that if you can play casino games with understanding, then it is more than here. Amount can be earned in short time.

[Synchronice]

wouldn't it be a prestige for any company to run a signature campaign and be active on this forum?

Take Coinbase for example. Google shows the current market cap is $50.95 billion and (in 2023) had 3,416 employees. They're on the stock market, that comes with corporate decision making. It's not a company where someone in the PR-department can easily get a couple thousand dollars per week in Bitcoin to pay for a signature campaign on Bitcointalk. Large corporations can't go around making anonymous payments to anonymous users on Bitcointalk. Some users here are from sanctioned countries, and sanction violation is not something they're going to risk.

You are right, this makes sense. They are a huge company and are under radar of every government and financial institutes. If they were about to run a signature campaign, I believe it would be KYC verified and on contract level because otherwise like you said, they might be in trouble because it can turn into a huge scandal if one of their signature campaign participant is from sanctioned country or is a criminal in reality.

I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

Asking the question is answering it: you already know them. Most advertising here comes from new sites who want new users.

You are maybe right, but some casinos are way more famous than Crypto.com, Trezor, Bitpay or Bitrefill and they still have ongoing signature campaigns here. In addition it doesn't explain why less known exchanges or other non-gambling platforms don't advertise here anymore. IMO this forum is less reputed than it used to be because despite the merit system, some sections are still too much spammed for being interesting to read, or even to stay readable unfortunately.

This is true also. Being famous doesn't mean there is no necessity of extra marketing. Procter & Gamble is probably one of the most famous company in the world but yet, they spend the most amount of money on advertisement.

That's a very good question. I don't understand either why Binance, Coinbase, Crypto.com, Trezor, Ledger, BitPay, Bitrefill and similar companies don't advertise. Logically, they should be here but they aren't.

I can say a bit more about hardware wallet companies like ledger, trezor and few others, because I know people who contacted them for signature campaign promotion.
Most of them were not ready to invest amount of money needed to have serious signature campaign.
Best we got was small promotions and giveaways from Satochip and Bitbox, but maybe this will change in future.
I remember the time when Trezor team members and Keystone owner was active in forum, but they turned more towards twitter I think.

This is very interesting, I didn't know if they were contacted for signature campaign promotion. I wish I was there during that time when Vitalik Buterin, Charlie Lee and founders of other famous coins/companies were active on this forum.
This forum still has a potential to be the most popular space for discussion but it will require significant changes, including hiring a team of professionals in different industries but I think that won't happen.

[mindrust]

Some of those companies mentioned above probably will never show up in this forum ever again. Bitpay is a good example. These guys were actively trying to push their big block agenda and they delayed segwit update for a long time. When they were doing that, people in this forum were also actively promoting btcpay and cursing bitpay. So,  I don't think bitpay will ever come here and advertise their services.

I think some similar stuff also happened with coinbase.

Binance

and one of those hw wallet companies which had ridiculous demands forgot which one it was

They will come here create an account and then what?

The DT will tag and flag them red  

Their journey in this forum has ended long before it even started.

[Wonder Work]

This is true also. Being famous doesn't mean there is no necessity of extra marketing. Procter & Gamble is probably one of the most famous company in the world but yet, they spend the most amount of money on advertisement.

Being famous doesn't require excessive marketing, that's right, but what they wanted was to try to get too much exposure by promoting the modern world for which it happened. It seems to me that the only reason they spend so much money behind the campaign is because they are trying to gain popularity overnight. It seems to me that this is what you think.

This forum still has a potential to be the most popular space for discussion but it will require significant changes, including hiring a team of professionals in different industries but I think that won't happen.

You think this forum is likely to be the most popular for discussion but I think this forum is the most popular for discussion. Here you have raised a point by appointing a group of different artist professionals through which the forum will change but if you want to create a separate group of artist professionals then you will see that whoever is placed in that art will talk about that art and not about any other art. This seems to me to degenerate the discussion into the current system which seems to be the most beautiful. I think this forum is popular for discussion because everyone can express his/her mind and everyone can get a rough idea about all the sectors and question any problem.

[BRINIRHA]

At least there are still many signature campaigns related to altcoins, such as those we can find on the bounty board. But Casinos do dominate. it's just that it doesn't matter because some of these casinos also accept deposits with crypto or crypto casinos.

But it would really be great if in the future there would be some signature campaigns related to new crypto exchanges or something like that here. Although there were several who were present here. But I hope there will be more.

Oh yes, currently there is also a crptomus here who advertises his services through a signature campaign handled by Mr. AB de Royse777 here and we know Crptomus provides crypto payment services. And yeah that's a good thing. so yeah it seems like the signature campaign on this forum doesn't still have any color other than casinos.

[Alone055]

Being famous doesn't require excessive marketing

That's incorrect. Considering the competition in each industry, a project or brand that doesn't constantly advertise or promote itself starts to fade out of the limelight. This makes it a necessity for every brand, project, or firm to keep promoting itself and its products and run giveaways and promotions to keep its customers engaged and attract new customers to their business.

Do you know that every company, firm, or project has a specific monthly revenue budget dedicated only to promotional campaigns and advertisements that run throughout the month? They hire marketing experts to plan and execute their marketing campaigns; after all, marketing makes a brand or project stand out.

Companies that maintain quality will undoubtedly retain their customers, but marketing is essential to keeping the business flowing and attracting new customers, no matter how popular the company or project.

[Wonder Work]

That's incorrect. Considering the competition in each industry, a project or brand that doesn't constantly advertise or promote itself starts to fade out of the limelight. This makes it a necessity for every brand, project, or firm to keep promoting itself and its products and run giveaways and promotions to keep its customers engaged and attract new customers to their business.

Yes ok, I also know that the popularity of every project does not depend only on the medium of promotion. However, each project has its own guidelines on how to move forward with their progress. But to attract customers towards their project various offers are exposed through campaigns. Some projects spend a lot of money on campaigning but it turns out that it doesn't achieve the desired success that's why I said campaign alone is not everything to take a project forward.

Do you know that every company, firm, or project has a specific monthly revenue budget dedicated only to promotional campaigns and advertisements that run throughout the month? They hire marketing experts to plan and execute their marketing campaigns; after all, marketing makes a brand or project stand out.

Yes of course I know this because every company, firm or project has a monthly budget based on which campaigns are run. They work sector wise to take their projects forward.

Companies that maintain quality will undoubtedly retain their customers, but marketing is essential to keeping the business flowing and attracting new customers, no matter how popular the company or project.

Customer service must be ensured to maintain quality standards. Marketing systems must be kept in mind to ensure customer service and move forward. The better the marketing system, the better the project will progress.

[Hhampuz]

I've actually wondered myself from time to time... Maybe Bitmover is right, but i always wondered why other company's that accept bitcoin as a payment don't jump on the potential traffic from the biggest bitcoin community...

I mean, as long as you sell a product that's more or less mainstream and most (tech savvy) people will buy from time to time AND you accept BTC as a payment option, i just feel it would make sense to promote on bitcointalk.
I have also read from certain mixer-owners that the traffic they got from bitcointalk was much better quality wise than the traffic they got elsewhere....

I was in contact with both Ledger and Trezor a few years back regarding marketing on bitcointalk. Trezor said they'd consider it (but never looked into it further) while the ledger rep I was talking to asked what I could do with a $500/month marketing budget. lol

[OcTradism]

I was in contact with both Ledger and Trezor a few years back regarding marketing on bitcointalk. Trezor said they'd consider it (but never looked into it further) while the ledger rep I was talking to asked what I could do with a $500/month marketing budget. lol

It's good news that big wallet companies like Trezor and Ledger are ready or have intention to run their marketing in Bitcointalk. It shows that they still consider Bitcointalk forum as one of good places for marketing.

They are both not too serious with marketing idea here, even they are opened with this idea. Especially Ledger with budget they intended to spend in PM with you. Trezor perhaps have better intention for marketing here, but if they want to spend $500 monthly like Ledger, they will be the same, not too serious with marketing here.

$500 monthly budget for marketing is like for a start up, not for big companies like Trezor and Ledger.

[Natalim]

$500 monthly budget for marketing is like for a start up, not for big companies like Trezor and Ledger.

I’m not sure that would even be enough - the budget is too small to expect a positive marketing result. Even for a signature campaign, some campaigns are paying over $1,000 per week to make it effective. If the budget’s too low, it’s probably better not to advertise at all; otherwise, it’s just wasted money. And, of course, experienced campaign managers like Hhampuz know this and likely wouldn’t agree to run a campaign with such a limited budget.