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Author Topic: Testnet4 Mining (Discussion)  (Read 2655 times)
BayAreaCoins
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July 22, 2025, 10:16:54 PM
 #101

Figured y'all might think this was a sexy transaction from a guy mining with a windows 98. (They actually claim it's a BitAxe, but I think Windows 98 rolls off the tongue better.)

https://mempool.space/testnet4/tx/af716c24f08aa9253de374f4b2710ede1b85ce5639ca24b8f57f2b74262480bf

Or a flashback from mining Testnet in 2012.

https://mempool.space/testnet/tx/54f917a658c25bd022c87461c877b43511a7a9e012a0c2e6ef95da9aa34d4204

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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July 23, 2025, 05:34:12 AM
 #102

Figured y'all might think this was a sexy transaction from a guy mining with a windows 98. (They actually claim it's a BitAxe, but I think Windows 98 rolls off the tongue better.)

https://mempool.space/testnet4/tx/af716c24f08aa9253de374f4b2710ede1b85ce5639ca24b8f57f2b74262480bf
The blocks he mines are empty.

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July 23, 2025, 06:01:42 AM
Last edit: July 23, 2025, 06:19:10 AM by BayAreaCoins
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #103

Figured y'all might think this was a sexy transaction from a guy mining with a windows 98. (They actually claim it's a BitAxe, but I think Windows 98 rolls off the tongue better.)

https://mempool.space/testnet4/tx/af716c24f08aa9253de374f4b2710ede1b85ce5639ca24b8f57f2b74262480bf
The blocks he mines are empty.

It is faster to submit empty blocks than it is ones with transactions.

Do you want a high chance at 50 coins (~85%) or a small chance of 50.1 coins? Tongue

Dude is just working with what he has.  The other miner who has never moved coins and just crossed a million is wild too.

Honestly, he's selling more coins than any premine too and killing the traders.  Kind of a win.

He could get knocked out in several ways though.  Do it better, reorg, and so forth.

Pretty kick ass BitAxe with the right set up.  I think someone could pool hop too.  Mine BTC/BCH or whatever then when 20 mins come on, click over for the Testnet fast block, and back to mining whatever profits.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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August 01, 2025, 04:05:21 AM
Last edit: August 02, 2025, 04:29:52 AM by BayAreaCoins
 #104

Testnet3 is now filling up with the same behavior making both testnets unusable. This behavior rarely happens on mainnet where there's an incentive to include healthy blocks.

Is it unusable though?

Testnet has an incentive as well, which is why it is being mined in this manner.  People are earning Bitcoin from Testnet mining.  It's still early too... one day the Multipools and Coin mining websites will quote Bitcoin Testnet.  I suspect these pennies keep the network spinning for testing without this difficulty reset rule.

Testnet3 block reward is basically gone, so transactions are being included.  I would argue this make it more usable for users.

Testnet4 block rewards are fresh (50 each block).  So it is better to leave transactions off when trying to submit a dif 1 block as fast as possible.  I would argue this makes using Testnet4 less usuable for users.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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August 01, 2025, 01:59:11 PM
 #105

Testnet3 is now filling up with the same behavior making both testnets unusable.
Testnet3 has a blockstorm going on, there are many blocks per minute and most of them include a few transactions. There's simply not more to include.

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August 20, 2025, 11:44:27 PM
Last edit: August 21, 2025, 03:50:04 AM by BayAreaCoins
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #106

From a friend of ours:

Quote
Top testnet4 mining rewards in the last 14400 blocks (~100 days):
tb1q7l3supx5c368jqv9aqpds3pxaf4c6p6vuq638g: 228450.02392245003 BTC (31.72916998922917%)
tb1q2dsc94zq40nwnz27w5rxljwllutnwjtlxk44fz: 143462.31364494012 BTC (19.925321339575017%)
tb1qum986qkqf363jhaau2nlavyehdqg487p8m2ydu: 122950.01128661998 BTC (17.076390456474996%)
mtmb9uUCWAArC9XfXjrng4DWydGjq3y6ot: 45901.158150269934 BTC (6.3751608542041565%)
tb1qf7aswe6maqcuw7akxyjvz7hzajmzlzfscnnnmy: 28950.00013447 BTC (4.0208333520097215%)
tb1q548z58kqvwyjqwy8vc2ntmg33d7s2wyfv7ukq4: 21972.723575670003 BTC (3.0517671632875003%)
tb1qm4x6w7t8kz5vt8hrqf40tqk7f94t45fy88fzal: 11151.542299989997 BTC (1.5488253194430552%)
tb1qlqym3pzn76qz5ecj7y36rwrgxrr83pnwxtc5rp: 9451.54680009 BTC (1.3127148333458334%)
tb1q9g7zt84tcnvhs42ca6tts6hqpzkedn2dv5uw22: 8550.959951699997 BTC (1.1876333266249994%)
tb1q9r3ggr8al3sr927fkacfw4t99gdtaead3c0w6y: 6251.8584716 BTC (0.8683136766111111%)
1st and 3rd have been directed into altquick's strategic reserve. That means altquick holds around half of the block rewards in the last 100 days.
 — 8:02 AM
Top testnet4 mining rewards since genesis:
Top miner addresses:
mjcNxNEUrMs29U3wSdd7UZ54KGweZAehn6: 1129304.0072135401 BTC (23.20854442820576%)
tb1q2dsc94zq40nwnz27w5rxljwllutnwjtlxk44fz: 1114470.194457332 BTC (22.903691881687656%)
tb1q548z58kqvwyjqwy8vc2ntmg33d7s2wyfv7ukq4: 324669.7656145904 BTC (6.672350962743513%)
tb1q7l3supx5c368jqv9aqpds3pxaf4c6p6vuq638g: 228450.02392245003 BTC (4.694920496130229%)
tb1qum986qkqf363jhaau2nlavyehdqg487p8m2ydu: 215051.29634586 BTC (4.419560661881527%)
mjP97q5BWtdpdsJLkEJvQWgLe9zw4MMVU6: 127551.49160866998 BTC (2.6213353011896037%)
tb1q3u8f5899ymkatx69h0n3sw0qpalgwdmrcj80dm: 106800.34491046013 BTC (2.1948744837256378%)
mixdntWZr1zLRXNGpmbyoW1tCMQM1R6HBy: 100200.17557445976 BTC (2.059233130919138%)
tb1pmlne4hgps990s3ygfyza89mjdzzxvzcgg7rjw6h83kn0th5cmquspcpy7r: 88200.24990244022 BTC (1.8126203443574316%)
tb1q4r9vwamarpw4zsehuqfd0gud6xgntasvd0h6g0: 71054.19463094002 BTC (1.460248456012721%)
The addresses 638g, 2ydu and h6g0 have mined 10% of the supply and directed their rewards to altquick's reserve. Soon, this 10% will increase.

I spoke to a different group that uses Testnet 3 for testing.  They are staying on 3 because the miner above is raping yall so bad and they are worried their confirmations will take hours and such.  So we got lit shit going on with both sides of the versions.  Cheesy. Lfg!

Quote
dude we were going to use it for this latest round of testnet and it was a complete mess

https://fork.observer/ (click testnet4 in the top -> corner and you can see the mess)

Blockstorms only annoy people syncing... they are kinda nice to use on a network.  Your shit confirms reallllly fast and there are a fair few miners, so as long as you aren't syncing... who cares?

Testnet4 getting mined with empty blocks is rough, but it is smart.  That big juicy reward.  The forking out of the 20 min rule will remoe that problem (which is going to be fun too, I plan on mining this dude right out of the gate with a cool "freeish" method I have).

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
LoyceV
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August 21, 2025, 06:50:18 AM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #107

Testnet4 getting mined with empty blocks is rough, but it is smart.  That big juicy reward.  The forking out of the 20 min rule will remoe that problem (which is going to be fun too, I plan on mining this dude right out of the gate with a cool "freeish" method I have).
What's stopping ASIC miners (or better: mining pools) from wiping those empty blocks out? Without those blocks, difficulty would be much lower and ASIC miners would find a block every 10 minutes (on average).

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August 21, 2025, 10:53:18 AM
 #108

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Do you want a high chance at 50 coins (~85%) or a small chance of 50.1 coins?
It is just a matter of fees. When Bitcoin mainnet started in 2009, transactions were free, or they paid 0.01 BTC. Maybe testnet fees should start with 1000 sat/vB, and then be decreased, when more coins will be mined? Then, filling the whole block could cost at least 10 tBTC in fees, instead of 0.01 tBTC, so there would be more incentive to include transactions, and it would be more aligned with amounts used in practice.

Quote
1st and 3rd have been directed into altquick's strategic reserve. That means altquick holds around half of the block rewards in the last 100 days.
It doesn't surprise me at all. Why hold altcoins, if you can mine them, and sell instantly for BTC? Mining is the main reason, why many altcoins exist, and for many altcoins, it is the only reason.

Quote
Top testnet4 mining rewards since genesis:
You forgot about Garlo Nicon, who mined 105k tBTC (0.5% of testnet4 total supply) to different addresses, and then deposited everything on your exchange: https://mempool.space/testnet4/address/tb1qm3lcnz58f5398spu4rvr6tk2l8as3sun8h7rn9

Quote
They are staying on 3 because the miner above is raping yall so bad and they are worried their confirmations will take hours and such.
They can ignore CPU blocks, if they want to, and download them later, when the next ASIC block will be created. Because everything, what is mined with minimal difficulty, can be easily considered as having zero confirmations. Any ASIC miner can throw hundreds of CPU blocks away, just by mining a single block, so it is just a matter of annoying enough ASIC miners, and convincing them to change their mining strategy, and just make new blocks on top of ASIC blocks, with faked timestamps, being no more than 20 minutes past the last block.

Also, it is guaranteed by testnet4 consensus rules, that one ASIC block has to be mined every 2016 blocks, and CPU-mined blocks won't push the chain forward, during difficulty adjustment. Which means, that if all ASICs would stop mining, then all testnet4 CPU miners would be stuck. And the only reason, why testnet4 difficulty is so high, is that ASIC miners accept CPU blocks, instead of mining things on top of the latest ASIC block, and considering CPU-mined things as "unconfirmed signals about non-standard transactions, which people would want to include".

Because if all CPU miners would know, that their non-standard transactions will be confirmed, but their coinbase transactions will be thrown away, then there would be much less people, trying to mine things on their CPUs. And then, CPU mining would be really used for testing, because then, when new ASIC would come in, all of that tests would be accepted, but coinbase transactions would be rejected.

Quote
The forking out of the 20 min rule will remoe that problem
I wonder, if people will release testnet5, or if they will focus on fixing testnet4 instead. Because by starting next testnets, the number of networks to maintain will grow.

Quote
What's stopping ASIC miners (or better: mining pools) from wiping those empty blocks out?
They don't have enough coding skills, to modify Bitcoin Core in the way they want. Or: they don't know, how to compile some unmerged code changes from unofficial branches, and use non-official version of Bitcoin Core for mining. Maybe they are worried, that if some version is non-official, then it is more risky? I don't know, if I would have any ASIC, I would happily reject thousands of CPU-mined blocks (while taking fees from all transactions except coinbases, to not annoy developers, willing to test non-standard transactions).

Quote
Without those blocks, difficulty would be much lower and ASIC miners would find a block every 10 minutes (on average).
Exactly. By not rejecting CPU-mined blocks with ASIC blocks, ASIC miners are setting the artificially raised difficulty in stone. They could mine something like 6x more ASIC blocks, if they would start rejecting CPU-mined blocks. Because if during 2016 blocks period, there are 336 ASIC blocks, and 1680 CPU blocks, then guess what: the network difficulty, set in block headers, is 6x bigger, than it should be.

Proof of Work puzzle in mainnet, testnet4 and signet.
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August 21, 2025, 07:21:11 PM
Last edit: August 21, 2025, 08:15:44 PM by BayAreaCoins
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #109

Quote
What's stopping ASIC miners (or better: mining pools) from wiping those empty blocks out?
They don't have enough coding skills, to modify Bitcoin Core in the way they want. Or: they don't know, how to compile some unmerged code changes from unofficial branches, and use non-official version of Bitcoin Core for mining. Maybe they are worried, that if some version is non-official, then it is more risky? I don't know, if I would have any ASIC, I would happily reject thousands of CPU-mined blocks (while taking fees from all transactions except coinbases, to not annoy developers, willing to test non-standard transactions).

Quote
Without those blocks, difficulty would be much lower and ASIC miners would find a block every 10 minutes (on average).
Exactly. By not rejecting CPU-mined blocks with ASIC blocks, ASIC miners are setting the artificially raised difficulty in stone. They could mine something like 6x more ASIC blocks, if they would start rejecting CPU-mined blocks. Because if during 2016 blocks period, there are 336 ASIC blocks, and 1680 CPU blocks, then guess what: the network difficulty, set in block headers, is 6x bigger, than it should be.

A big thing of what is stopping folks from doing this is that other similar miners aren't doing it to them.

Think of it like a friendly war and if someone shoots a gun then the otherside is going to respond.

The network appears to currently have a gentleman's agreement.  I'm very confident that these fellas do have the technical ability to run chains back in ways that kinda worry me.  However, if more folks are going for ASIC blocks, the more secure my mind becomes as well.

I play little to no role in the intelligent mining crowd, we just brush shoulders.

I'm personally with StWenhao, if I had the capability, I would be a strong supporter of nuking CPU blocks.  StWenhao, if you put up the pool with the logic, I'll send you plenty of ASIC power.

Split it with you 60/40.  60 going to us.

We can knock out the CPU people right now rather than wait to see how things unfold in January.  (I think maintaining Testnet4 to find the current global feel/use for it is smarter than rolling into a fresh 5.  Fresh 5 with mining out of the gate could be insane and/or there maybe more overlooked things.  Fresh version after fresh version gets people confused in what they need (so they make mistakes... not a bad thing for me tbh) and/or the services who cater to testing having to update seems like a bit of a choir.  Also, their customers expect previous versions to at least be obtainable.

I reckon we just see 4 forked and everyone follows it without additional head ache.  Let it run for some years, constantly reminding people it is testnet, and then roll her over into a comfortable 5 when it is needed or when the block reward is problematic for miners.

Focusing on miners going forward is going to be important, but I think we got them covered.



It appears a new empty block miner has come online with ferocity https://mempool.space/testnet4/address/mmD1epnTCeG2Ec3JHSJyuqUNWL3QfhSSDa

Welcome to the game.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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August 22, 2025, 03:16:09 AM
Merited by LoyceV (24), ABCbits (8)
 #110

Quote
Think of it like a friendly war and if someone shoots a gun then the otherside is going to respond.
But it was the reason, why testnet was made in the first place. So you can test shooting in safe zone, instead of damaging real people; then it is more similar to some paintball game or VR game. And that's the main reason, why there was "gentleman's agreement" about test coins being worthless. Because then, if nobody trades anything, then you can test taking other people's money without serious consequences. And when nobody puts real coins in, then it is just like monopoly game, where you can buy all hotels, and get 100% of total supply, just to test edge cases, which you wouldn't want to ever see in production. The same for 51% attacks, blockstorms, wasting someone's bandwidth, and so on, and so forth. There are many tests, which are good to have in sandboxed zone, which you would never want to do in real networks.

Quote
StWenhao, if you put up the pool with the logic, I'll send you plenty of ASIC power.
If testnet coins would be worthless, then sure, why not. But being listed on your exchange means, that if something goes wrong, then someone may lose real BTCs. For example: you accept deposits after 100 confirmations. What if someone will test a chain of 100 CPU-mined blocks? Imagine what happens if you will receive 10k tBTC (or something bigger), like Garlo Nicon did in this transaction: 914a6348ba832b79c631a6f70ea9e2c3e1e433ee0b90633d51e3fe1164c05dc0. And then, imagine that some CPU miner can confirm it, see it credited to some account on your exchange, sell it, and then use some ASIC to revert all of that with just a single block, leaving you with fake testnet coins, which are no longer confirmed. What then? (hint: you should really consider counting only ASIC confirmations, instead of counting everything, if you want to be better protected from such attacks; not to mention what people can do in testnet3 during blockstorms, if your code really counts to 100, and allows instantly trading it; better count chainwork than confirmations, if you want to be safe in testnet3)

Also, there are code changes for such attacks, that are prepared by fjahr (testnet4 creator), but they are just not widely used, because when test coins are no longer worthless, then you need to be prepared for accusations of stealing real BTCs from people, if you ever use it: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/31117

I gave you the link. If there is some already deployed code for some mining pool, then it can probably work fine, if the official Bitcoin Core will be just replaced with modified version, compiled from fjahr's sources. But, as you can see, going further means potentially attacking your exchange (for example by exploiting the fact, that you let selling coins instantly after 100 confirmations, which is unsafe in testnets, because you should count chainwork instead).

So, do you want to encourage me to really exploit your exchange? (because I publicly shared the details, you should probably fix bugs like that anyway, before someone will read it, and exploit it)

Quote
I think maintaining Testnet4 to find the current global feel/use for it is smarter than rolling into a fresh 5.
Of course it is true. However, testnet code is surrounded by mainnet code. And by reading what fjahr did, you can quickly notice, why he stopped. Because going further means turning Bitcoin Core into "51% attack tool". And then, some people prefer to make coins more worthless from the start, by using premine, and other tricks, rather than trying to put attacking tools directly into the client, and building something, that can be potentially used by mainnet users as well.

Quote
Fresh 5 with mining out of the gate could be insane and/or there maybe more overlooked things.
There are more overlooked things. And people are smart enough to understand, that after premine will be sold, and normally traded, then sooner or later, that network can just turn into yet another regular altcoin. There are altcoins with premines, one of them being ETH, another "famous" one being LTC, where coblee said, that it will come with 150 premined coins, and so on. After many years, a lot of people don't care about premine.

And developers are smart enough to know that. But they are just trying different approaches, to make coins really worthless, and they want to try different ideas, to see, which of them will work, and which of them won't (and if mining a permissionless test network with worthless coins is really possible, or we are doomed to centralized solutions like signet).

Quote
Fresh version after fresh version gets people confused in what they need
Which is yet another reason, why initially there were some code changes, but now there is a lot of silence. People are not stupid, and they know all of that. Now, there is more brainstorming than deployment, because people just think, how to conceptually design new test networks, to avoid the risk of them being instantly traded.

Quote
I reckon we just see 4 forked and everyone follows it without additional head ache.
That's why hard-forking testnet4, while keeping existing chain, was the initial plan. But, if existing testnet4 coins are already traded, then everything can be started from scratch as well, if the end goal is to make coins worthless, and avoid trading.

Quote
It appears a new empty block miner has come online with ferocity
Yes. But you sometimes miss some players, when you assume, that all of them reuse addresses, just like you forgot, that Garlo Nicon produced at least 105k tBTC.

Proof of Work puzzle in mainnet, testnet4 and signet.
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August 22, 2025, 03:55:16 AM
Last edit: August 23, 2025, 02:43:14 PM by BayAreaCoins
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #111

Shoot a 1 coin deposit over the bow and reverse it.

It doesn't have to make a trade to make a point.  These things can be demo'ed in ways that aren't harmful.  We do have a decent defense system outside of the normal website's functions.  I'll be happy to hopefully demo those while you attempt to demo yours! Tongue

You're preaching to the choir though, which is why such a trade would hit only the buyers and they have to be responsible for their own trades + choices.  We do our best, but as PortlandHodl joked about "He could point MARA at reversing testnet on his last day."  Which is a *really* funny joke, but god damn lol.  

Mara could blow the ass end off BCH too, but like you pointed out... hurting people... blah blah blah Tongue.

Hitting BSV would be cheap right now too.

I figured we were going to get smoked during Lopps blockstorm, but it never happened.

If/when it happens, that falls on the buyers of those markets.  We can only do so much, so hitting my exchange would be annoying but it'd be the little retards that mostly got hurt.  The market is aware of this and that's why the attack is worth so little, if it was secure... it'd be worth more.  Markets aren't dumb, they are made up of a lot of people. (losses are the buyers as per TOS, we get paid in Bitcoin for half the trade... It'd be OK, we aren't responsible for that IMO.)



ya that guys list only mentions single addys, not batched miner addresses.

Lots of miners mine 50 per address... perhaps not so much in v4 yet.  It's better privacy to use a new address each time.



Someone was pitching today to me that you are garlonicon and vjudeu.  Tongue You lil sneaker!!!  It kinda makes sense, but I'd think you would have done your signature differently... but who knows?  Not that I care Smiley.



I don't understand why your mind can't wrap around something being worthless to one person, but not to another.  It's like cans... most people throw one away, but a few people gather thousands.  The one is worthless, but the dude who took the time for a big stack can help others to lazy to pick up cans.

This is the human experience... not a dev vs dev thing.  I think as long as the goal is being met, who cares how we get there... it's testnet.  

You're thinking about this one way. Consider it from my perspective.  Consider it from the other smart people who are making noise on the chain.  It's more complicated than your strongly held opinion, which it's totally fine to think 1 empty can is worthless... but don't get pissed at the recycling center or try to burn it down!

Welcome out of the class room and into the streets.  How tough are ya?



If we are going to put together an "aggressive pool," can we at least smoke BSV first? They definitely deserve it before the nice little friendly honest Testnet exchange, trying to provide a service that fills a demand for Bitcoin.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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August 22, 2025, 07:02:39 AM
Merited by Satofan44 (1)
 #112

Quote
Someone was pitching today to me that you are garlonicon and vjudeu.
Well, we know each other, and there are some things, which we did together (for example that puzzle, where the first deposit is from me, the second from vjudeu, and the third from garlonicon, who won our local challenge, and picked the change destination). But there are more people than our trio inside our network. We know enough to use 2P ECDSA in practice, and hide huge multisigs behind even P2PK in trustless way, if needed. But all we do is just sharing ideas, brainstorming them, and posting with random time delay. But to join the group, you need an invitation, and I am not the one who can share it. Also, it is quite technical group, with many software developers, so if you are not a programmer, then you probably wouldn't enjoy it anyway.

Also note, that some people wouldn't tell you that, if they wouldn't catch our bait. Which means, that if someone thinks, that some accounts are just my alts, then it means, that we wanted to spread that information. But so far, nobody is clever enough to connect all the dots, and there is no reason to do so, because then, we could stop posting, and from whom people would got technical details then? To which accounts would they send their merits, if all of our group would be dissolved? Maybe to some AI spammers, which are recently active in bitcointalk?

Many people know, who am I. Many people know, what happened in 2015, when I tried to experimentally discover, if Satoshi is a group, or a single person, and formed some coordinated network, where people could test it in practice, and see, if anyone would notice, if something is written by some skilled individual, or if it is a collective effort, reviewed by many, rewritten by one publisher, and posted by one public sender.

But they don't have enough incentive to doxx me, and they know, that if they do, then I will do the same things, as I did back then, and just move somewhere else, just like Satoshi did, when too many people wanted to find out the truth. I already left some C++ forum, and some assembler forum. I can leave Bitcoin forum at any time. Governments are introducing KYC/AML, and making things harder, so at some point, I may be forced to leave Bitcoin anyway. That mainnet puzzle is one of our latest activity on mainnet, but we don't have much coins, and our initial plan was to stop buying Bitcoin since the end of 2024, but fortunately, some governments are lazy enough, that they didn't introduce some MICA rules in the whole Europe yet.

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You lil sneaker!!!  It kinda makes sense, but I'd think you would have done your signature differently... but who knows?
It is easier to fool people, than it is to convince them, that they were fooled. And even if you assume, that it is true, then maybe I want to encourage people to think, that they are my alts, and hide my real goals? Anyway, after being here since 2015, reaching Legendary is no longer a challenge for me, if you assume, that they are my alts, and I did it twice. I saw enough things, to post just for fun, instead of participating in signature campaigns like vjudeu did. And if you watch us more closely, then you will know, when I disagreed with Garlo Nicon, and why, and then you would know, if we are the same person or not.

I am here to share some knowledge, see some people's reactions, teach them something, and sometimes also learn something useful. But there are many interesting things I can do, so I am not forced to be here, and I believe nobody sane would want to ban me, and encourage me to move to other things.

But, only time will tell. So far, our experiment works fine since 2015. And it is up to the community, how long they would tolerate our presence here.

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This is the human experience... not a dev vs dev thing.
Bitcoin was "dev vs dev" from the very beginning. It was always like that. Regular users are not skilled enough, to push us forward, they can only use, what developers invented. They are of course also useful, their trading brings value to the mainnet, their adoption makes it easier to exchange coins for real goods and services. But I am more interested in "dev vs dev" games, because this is what can make a difference. Writing software is a fascinating journey, and I feel sad, when I think, that many people would never enjoy it, because of lack of skills, or not putting enough effort, to participate in such games.

Also, having dev skills is what can give you an edge over others. If you know, how SHA-256 works, then you can optimize your miners, and produce more coins in early days, just like Patoshi did. If you know, how signatures works, then you can trustlessly execute many contracts, without going through third party, and make it appear like a single user under single public key, wrapped in any address type, including just P2PK, and fool everyone into thinking, that a single person did it.

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It's more complicated than your strongly held opinion, which it's totally fine to think 1 empty can is worthless... but don't get pissed at the recycling center or try to burn it down!
But the recycling center was initially a playground. First users made it, to test their cans, before making real ones, and using them in production. They used radioactive materials, and played many dangerous games, only to find out, what is safe, and what is not, and try things, which they never would with real cans, sold to the real customers.

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If we are going to put together an "aggressive pool," can we at least smoke BSV first?
When test coins are no longer worthless, then attacking one altcoin is the same as attacking another altcoin. It was a fun game to move test coins in blocks somewhere below 40k, when there was our group, versus other developers from Core, and some other groups. Then we knew, that nobody is harmed by our tests, because nobody traded anything for any real coins. But now, attacking anything, which is worth non-zero mainnet satoshis, has its legal consequences. And then, it is a question about possible risks: if you are not worried about being sued by BSV crowd, then go on. If you know, how testnet with its low hashrate can be attacked, then exactly the same thing can be repeated on any copycat coin you pick, as long as they didn't alter the rules too much (the funny thing about for example BCH is their 10-blocks rule, where you can do some attack, and set it in stone, so that nobody will revert it). Also, when it comes to BSV, then of course it was used in many different ways. One of the ongoing attack is when blocks are so heavy, that there is a lot of free relay. The centralization pressure is very high, and some SPV-like nodes can be tricked in many ways, when users no longer download full blocks, but work only on simplified proofs. And when block explorers stop showing BSV chain, because of being too bloated, then it also tells us something.

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They definitely deserve it before the nice little friendly honest Testnet exchange, trying to provide a service that fills a demand for Bitcoin.
Which also discouraged some developers from using it for more serious attacks. Because if you know, that you can harm some innocent users, then you are less willing to attack these testnets, even if you can. Which means, that the main purpose of testnet existence (which is testing attacks) is no longer there, so it is needed to try something else, like signet, regtest, or invent and deploy something new (which is one of the things I am working on, for example by trying Proof of Work inside Script, and deploying decentralized sidechains with different rules on different chains).

Proof of Work puzzle in mainnet, testnet4 and signet.
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August 22, 2025, 06:08:41 PM
Last edit: August 22, 2025, 06:45:02 PM by BayAreaCoins
 #113

Do not worry about these smucks in testnet.  Let it fly.

If it gets to hot in the kitchen, that's a great way to make something worthless, but do remember others aren't without wands either.



(You can do blackhat magick in whitehat ways.  It's more fun than a theoretical forum post or half-assed open-source GitHub project.)

I suspect even negative motion in crypto is motion/value... it seems to be required sometimes, but can you make it worth it or sustainable, I very much doubt.  However, I would be interested to see.  I definitely could be wrong.

You can be sure that I don't do paid marketing for crypto gladiator shit, but I might cry a lil.  Tongue

Send rockets dude.  Good luck.  (loving watching https://mempool.space/testnet4/address/mmD1epnTCeG2Ec3JHSJyuqUNWL3QfhSSDa atm)



I'm certainly not trying to run you off.  You're creative.  I want to see your theories in reality.

Also, this was never a park, testnet has been a constant radioactive shit hole.  I pretty much built a Hotel 6 in BFE Nevada and some locals (you) are bitching about it.  That's how I feel at least... BAC's Hotel 6 and Hourly Trailer Rentals isn't hurting anyone, and anyone who catches a STD should have known! Tongue.  My opinion, anyway.

It's better to make a little off it and educate people than it is to cry about degenerates and whores.  Esp when they aren't really bothering you at all, but actually enabling the goal of free dust for devs forever.  Which is a goal we mutually share and is the primary one, I do believe for both of us.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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August 22, 2025, 06:41:24 PM
 #114

This might be a bad idea to some but I'd like to turn this testnet into a merge mined coin. I keep thinking of ideas to help bitcoin and the people who missed out. This should be a chance to
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August 22, 2025, 06:47:28 PM
 #115

This might be a bad idea to some but I'd like to turn this testnet into a merge mined coin. I keep thinking of ideas to help bitcoin and the people who missed out. This should be a chance to

The "little" dudes need a clear vector for trying new stuff, mining-wise.  This is one of the biggest reasons Testnet is a needed thing.

Merge mining is a really good path for other altcoins.  It keeps all the mining power on Bitcoin as well, and offers a huge layer of security, but at a cost.  People won't do something for nothing forever, even with free merged mining.  (further evidence that "worthless" in crypto is realllllllly hard)

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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August 22, 2025, 07:20:02 PM
 #116

This might be a bad idea to some but I'd like to turn this testnet into a merge mined coin. I keep thinking of ideas to help bitcoin and the people who missed out. This should be a chance to


The "little" dudes need a clear vector for trying new stuff, mining-wise.  This is one of the biggest reasons Testnet is a needed thing.

Merge mining is a really good path for other altcoins.  It keeps all the mining power on Bitcoin as well, and offers a huge layer of security, but at a cost.  People won't do something for nothing forever, even with free merged mining.  (further evidence that "worthless" in crypto is realllllllly hard)

That's why it could work because it can cover the electrical costs. When it is on the market to trade it should be useful to sell and trade to make money for electrical usage. You mine Bitcoin and you can get Wattcoin or whatever you want to call it. I'm telling you it's genius better than my other idea with merge Mining.
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August 22, 2025, 07:33:35 PM
 #117

This might be a bad idea to some but I'd like to turn this testnet into a merge mined coin. I keep thinking of ideas to help bitcoin and the people who missed out. This should be a chance to


The "little" dudes need a clear vector for trying new stuff, mining-wise.  This is one of the biggest reasons Testnet is a needed thing.

Merge mining is a really good path for other altcoins.  It keeps all the mining power on Bitcoin as well, and offers a huge layer of security, but at a cost.  People won't do something for nothing forever, even with free merged mining.  (further evidence that "worthless" in crypto is realllllllly hard)

That's why it could work because it can cover the electrical costs. When it is on the market to trade it should be useful to sell and trade to make money for electrical usage. You mine Bitcoin and you can get Wattcoin or whatever you want to call it. I'm telling you it's genius better than my other idea with merge Mining.

I'm assuming you are the fella pitching a merged mined coin that is 100% premined? lol Tongue

Or maybe merge mining is just in the air.

https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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August 22, 2025, 11:52:08 PM
 #118

This might be a bad idea to some but I'd like to turn this testnet into a merge mined coin. I keep thinking of ideas to help bitcoin and the people who missed out. This should be a chance to


The "little" dudes need a clear vector for trying new stuff, mining-wise.  This is one of the biggest reasons Testnet is a needed thing.

Merge mining is a really good path for other altcoins.  It keeps all the mining power on Bitcoin as well, and offers a huge layer of security, but at a cost.  People won't do something for nothing forever, even with free merged mining.  (further evidence that "worthless" in crypto is realllllllly hard)

That's why it could work because it can cover the electrical costs. When it is on the market to trade it should be useful to sell and trade to make money for electrical usage. You mine Bitcoin and you can get Wattcoin or whatever you want to call it. I'm telling you it's genius better than my other idea with merge Mining.

I'm assuming you are the fella pitching a merged mined coin that is 100% premined? lol Tongue

Or maybe merge mining is just in the air.

Not 100% all the way to the last halving or up to now. That miner electricity coin would actually benefit the ecosystem of course I would like to benefit as well I want to show what I can do in the real world with these virtual currencies. I'd rather have 20% of the premine split to 12 members on bitcointalk. Testnet would be a good trading pair they might be worth more in the future.
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August 27, 2025, 11:31:04 PM
Merited by stwenhao (1)
 #119

Again, Saint, if you got the pool... I got some power: https://www.miningrigrentals.com/u/altquick Tongue


https://AltQuick.com/exchange/ - A Bitcoin-based exchange for Altcoins & Testnet (no fiat or KYC) - PGP D2F6EB9E127D75D6F994BA5F6862DDA3084922EE
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August 28, 2025, 12:26:08 AM
 #120

Again, Saint, if you got the pool... I got some power: https://www.miningrigrentals.com/u/altquick Tongue



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