Bitcoin Island

[BADecker]

It's a matter of control:

The real world is trying to put bitcoin into its existing framework to control it, but due to the P2P network, the degree of control is very limited

On the other hand, bitcoin is trying to put real world into its totally new framework and regulate the real world with its purchasing power, once its purchasing power is big enough, then it essentially make the real world a sub-set of its framework

Imagine that if 1 BTC can buy you a whole city, then you are making the rules for those cities as you wish, or at least develop it the way you want it

As a human citizen in a certain country, you should obey the rules of that country, but since bitcoin is almost impossible to regulate, your bitcoin is your key to freedom

So you might not need a bitcoin island, what you need is to support the bitcoin exchange rate and push it towards multi-billion dollars

Point of law; point of evidence. In the United States... from Marc Stevens at http://marcstevens.net/articles/ol-lie-world-tour-evidence-laws-apply.html.

"I’ve mentioned this on the No State Project a few times.  It’s the Same ol’ Lie World Tour.  I’ve already gotten lot’s of footage and will post them under this part of the website so they are easy to find.  The Tempe city council “we have jurisdiction because we say so” and the interview with federal magistrate John Buttrick are good examples."

... and ...

"There is a very pertinent question here: If the police have no evidence the laws apply, and the prosecutors don’t, then where are the judges getting it from when they insist they have jurisdiction over us?  They are so certain they will not only put us in cages, but also order psychological examines for asking for this phantom evidence."

----------

The point of this is that in the United States, there is no evidence that any laws apply to anybody. If there is no evidence that any laws apply, then why and how can government prosecute anyone, or even insist that they obey a law? Check out what Marc has to say.

The thing that Marc doesn't say is that the only way that laws can apply, or that judges have any authority over us, is by contract or agreement, where we have agreed to accept the laws or the judgements. But government never shows us the agreement. So maybe there isn't any.

In other words, even the various governments in the United States, and the United States government itself, are all dictatorsahips, simply acting for their own reasons like they are governments of freedom.

Time for Bitcoin Island, which might include all of North America, or maybe the whole world... all of it under fair, free Bitcoin-style agreement.

[CoinDiver]

You'd appreciate Lysander Spooner's "No Treason:The Constitution of No Authority".

[BADecker]

You'd appreciate Lysander Spooner's "No Treason:The Constitution of No Authority".

From the U.S. Constitution (of no authority), Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1 in part: "No State shall ... pass any ... Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts ...."

In other words, the States can't make laws that overcome agreements, if the agreements are done up in the right way.

The Federal Government has been adjudicated to be a "state."

Your point is well taken.

[fran2k]

Can we declare sovereignty over different places, like a distributed nation or something like that?

Like for example some occupied spaces we´re they accept bitcoin as their official currency.

[mylovelycryptocoins]

cool

[roslinpl]

I see our community will do it one day

One day I will place my feet @ bitcoin land!

hehe
regards.

[bryant.coleman]

That's what i mean; We'll take it and declare it to be an independent nation. Building an island in international waters would be close to impossible even if you're filthy rich.

As I said before, taking over an already occupied island will bring shitstorm from the UN.

[Elwar]

Would you be willing to pledge 10 bitcoins towards buying a small island?

Not hand over to me or anyone, just set aside 10 of your current bitcoins in your own wallet toward this goal.

This is assuming a few years of hashing things out before anyone would need to send their bitcoins and a significant increase in the value of those 10 bitcoins. A goal of 200 people pledged with a final 100 people agreeing on the final decision and actually following through with the payment.

[NotoriousBIT]

So this island will have a decentralized voting system in place for a real democracy?

[serenitys]

Can we declare sovereignty over different places, like a distributed nation or something like that?

Like for example some occupied spaces we´re they accept bitcoin as their official currency.

Why yes, yes you can. It's called Self. And you're already eyeball deep in bitcoin land. Up to you to take control over your domain without asking permission. That's what you need to fully understand. Freedom isn't an island. It's a state of mind and a state of self. You and me and them and whoever can pile onto a piece of land anywhere and the current authority will blow us all to bits for our disobedience. OR you and me and them can turn to this currency and blow the central authority out of the water, even if it begins on the underground as a fad...

Laws are only as good as the people who choose to accept them. Most people have a slave paradigm because they were born into it from generations passed. It's all habitual and the idea of legitimate freedom to people who don't know they're as free as they choose to be (as opposed to as free as someone else lets them be) is an alien concept.

Self is a sovereign place, a sovereign space with 100% self control over its future and can choose to accept an official currency and spread the word.

I think that Andreas A (- spelling block) and others make this point well: bitcoin is a disruptive technology, no doubt about it. Adopting it requires the ones accepting it to take 100% control and responsibility over their own realities, from their financial security to the way they get through life. Once the balance of power shifts because of the wealth transfer, the "powers that be" who presume their own wealth makes them the masters will be hit with an ugly reality that they're irrelevant. They can scream, snort and holler foul all they want and write up more laws than they can spell, and it won't matter...the people would have chosen their own currency, adopted it, built an organic economy, be anonymous or transparent at their own discretion, and change the way everything works, including the need for a government at all.

That decentralization factor is going to be mega HUGE for people when the concept snaps into place and they realize en mass they don't need nor require some self appointed agency of corrupt twats to decide what they can and cannot do, what they can and cannot spend, how much, how little, or whether they should hand over any portion of it to said twats for any reason, when they no longer need to answer to a government...

Bitcoin is the currency that finally allows Self to get up off its knees and govern itself without needing the agency to handle things or think for them.  THAT is freedom...and by the time governments figure out what happened, it'll be too late because all the people have to do is CHOOSE bitcoin and they can end all this shit across the globe once and for all.


This goes for all countries everywhere. Once the people choose to accept bitcoin as the people's currency and develop the infrastructure throughout this network, the value of the currency rises while the value of the state's fiat currency tanks hard - value goes down when nobody wants it. The state, then, cannot pay its enforcers...they can't pay its soldiers...they can't pay its legal entities...with worthless currency...because the currency that is valued and used by the people in the whole bitcoin network has changed everything.

The individual agents of government might buy into bitcoin when they don't have anything else but they do so without their centralized authority.

Government then is the people's government...like it was always supposed to be. No need for an island...just understand the disruptive potential of bitcoin and EMBRACE it out the ass!  Instead of being at the mercy of shops for fun stuff, organize and let the owners/merchants know that you CHOOSE bitcoin and won't be purchasing from them with any other currency. If their sales drop, they'll start accepting it. Especially if there is an "in world" style marketplace that deals exclusively in these real goods and services.

That's freedom.

use it or lose it.

[BADecker]

How about a joint donation wallet using a form of escrow so that the only way that it can be spent is if all the donators agreed to spend it. the only option should be that individual donators could get their funds back after 30 days request if they decide to opt out. This would give us an idea who was serious, without risking anything.

The details would need to be worked out - for the island, I mean. But even the details for setting up a meeting forum to get ideas for the whole thing would need to be worked out. Or could we use a thread in Bitcointalk?

Lot of work involved. We also would need some cool, experienced heads just to put it all together. I'm not much of a programmer, only a little javascript and perl. But I do have access to some of the best freedom government ideas around as you can see from one of my previous posts in this thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551676.msg6026390#msg6026390.

What do you think? Should we start a thread designed around the idea of initial organization?

[NattyLiteCoin]

http://www.burningman.com/

[fran2k]

Can we declare sovereignty over different places, like a distributed nation or something like that?

Like for example some occupied spaces we´re they accept bitcoin as their official currency.

Why yes, yes you can. It's called Self. And you're already eyeball deep in bitcoin land. Up to you to take control over your domain without asking permission. That's what you need to fully understand. Freedom isn't an island. It's a state of mind and a state of self. You and me and them and whoever can pile onto a piece of land anywhere and the current authority will blow us all to bits for our disobedience. OR you and me and them can turn to this currency and blow the central authority out of the water, even if it begins on the underground as a fad...

Laws are only as good as the people who choose to accept them. Most people have a slave paradigm because they were born into it from generations passed. It's all habitual and the idea of legitimate freedom to people who don't know they're as free as they choose to be (as opposed to as free as someone else lets them be) is an alien concept.

Self is a sovereign place, a sovereign space with 100% self control over its future and can choose to accept an official currency and spread the word.

I think that Andreas A (- spelling block) and others make this point well: bitcoin is a disruptive technology, no doubt about it. Adopting it requires the ones accepting it to take 100% control and responsibility over their own realities, from their financial security to the way they get through life. Once the balance of power shifts because of the wealth transfer, the "powers that be" who presume their own wealth makes them the masters will be hit with an ugly reality that they're irrelevant. They can scream, snort and holler foul all they want and write up more laws than they can spell, and it won't matter...the people would have chosen their own currency, adopted it, built an organic economy, be anonymous or transparent at their own discretion, and change the way everything works, including the need for a government at all.

That decentralization factor is going to be mega HUGE for people when the concept snaps into place and they realize en mass they don't need nor require some self appointed agency of corrupt twats to decide what they can and cannot do, what they can and cannot spend, how much, how little, or whether they should hand over any portion of it to said twats for any reason, when they no longer need to answer to a government...

Bitcoin is the currency that finally allows Self to get up off its knees and govern itself without needing the agency to handle things or think for them.  THAT is freedom...and by the time governments figure out what happened, it'll be too late because all the people have to do is CHOOSE bitcoin and they can end all this shit across the globe once and for all.


This goes for all countries everywhere. Once the people choose to accept bitcoin as the people's currency and develop the infrastructure throughout this network, the value of the currency rises while the value of the state's fiat currency tanks hard - value goes down when nobody wants it. The state, then, cannot pay its enforcers...they can't pay its soldiers...they can't pay its legal entities...with worthless currency...because the currency that is valued and used by the people in the whole bitcoin network has changed everything.

The individual agents of government might buy into bitcoin when they don't have anything else but they do so without their centralized authority.

Government then is the people's government...like it was always supposed to be. No need for an island...just understand the disruptive potential of bitcoin and EMBRACE it out the ass!  Instead of being at the mercy of shops for fun stuff, organize and let the owners/merchants know that you CHOOSE bitcoin and won't be purchasing from them with any other currency. If their sales drop, they'll start accepting it. Especially if there is an "in world" style marketplace that deals exclusively in these real goods and services.

That's freedom.

use it or lose it.

Well said.

How about a joint donation wallet using a form of escrow so that the only way that it can be spent is if all the donators agreed to spend it. the only option should be that individual donators could get their funds back after 30 days request if they decide to opt out. This would give us an idea who was serious, without risking anything.

The details would need to be worked out - for the island, I mean. But even the details for setting up a meeting forum to get ideas for the whole thing would need to be worked out. Or could we use a thread in Bitcointalk?

Lot of work involved. We also would need some cool, experienced heads just to put it all together. I'm not much of a programmer, only a little javascript and perl. But I do have access to some of the best freedom government ideas around as you can see from one of my previous posts in this thread, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551676.msg6026390#msg6026390.

What do you think? Should we start a thread designed around the idea of initial organization?

Hehehe. I see you are serious on this. For me the best implementation of this is not an island but to establish "common property" across the world. We need to specify a new license of property and start to buy and share stuff for common use. The closest thing I had seen to this is the bookcrossing movement. I have several ideas on how to develop this, if someone want to talk about, just PM me.

[bryant.coleman]

Check this:

Under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea treaty (UNCLOS), artificial islands are not considered harbor works (Article 11) and are under the jurisdiction of the nearest coastal state if within 200 nautical miles (370 km) (Article 56). Artificial islands are not considered islands for purposes of having their own territorial waters or exclusive economic zones, and only the coastal state may authorize their construction (Article 60); however, on the high seas beyond national jurisdiction, any "state" may construct artificial islands (Article 87).

A little bit of hope for us!!!

[romerun]

set up a military, purchase a few nuclear warheads, submarines, tanks, siege an island, write your own law

[blacksails]

set up a military, purchase a few nuclear warheads, submarines, tanks, siege an island, write your own law

We should ally with North Korea and get a few nukes for free.

[bryant.coleman]

We should ally with North Korea and get a few nukes for free.

North Korea doesn't have any nukes. And most importantly, we should be politically independent. That means no alliances with anyone.

[blacksails]

We should ally with North Korea and get a few nukes for free.

North Korea doesn't have any nukes. And most importantly, we should be politically independent. That means no alliances with anyone.

I'm pretty sure they do? My suggestion was not serious btw.

[magnet007]

We should amass bitcoins and buy an island.. make it a country and have it's currency BTC.  That is all.

great......

[tvbcof]

We should ally with North Korea and get a few nukes for free.

North Korea doesn't have any nukes. And most importantly, we should be politically independent. That means no alliances with anyone.

I'm pretty sure they do? My suggestion was not serious btw.

Probably N. Korea has a few nukes which might at least fizzle a bit.  But they starved half their population in order to get them so it would be unlikely that they would be especially generous in giving them away.

Israel, OTOH, has plenty.  And they might see the utility of having a safe-house of sorts for some of their higher-ups in the form of an isolated and well defended island since a slip-up could result in the need for a hasty vacation of the so-called 'promised land'.  They've made a good number of enemies over the years and they may find that more of their friendships than they had hoped might be of the fair-weather variety if the shit actually hits the fan at some point.

(I just paid my taxes so the billions we (the U.S.) send to Israel and the diddly-squat we get in return is especially annoying right about now.  If I had my way the one last thing I'd send to Israel would be Pollard's dead carcass then I'd dust off my hands and let the Zionists pursue their projects on their own.)