On the future of the Democrat party

[BADecker]

There is a chance that the Democrat Party will somehow be destroyed by the Trump administration. It will partly be their own fault because of the warmongering they have done. However, with what might be coming with Trump, if they are not destroyed, they just might have a better win next time than Trump did this time.


Whitney Webb's analysis of Trump is 100% correct here - https://x.com/MarxEngelsLnin/status/1854586072866455754

Here is what is written by Whitney Webb at the site:

I will happily give you clear arguments for why I am skeptical:

Trump's transition team lead says RFK will not actually have a role at HHS, and will only have access to vaccine data, contrary to what was promoted publicly.

Last time Trump was in office, he extensively deregulated GMO crops and plants. JD Vance, Vivek and Musk are deeply invested in biotech, including biotech "health" products like mRNA vaccines, which Trump supported last time via Op Warp Speed and has yet to issue a public apology for his Covid-era policies.

Speaking of those policies, Trump let Larry Fink design Covid-era fiscal policy, which saw the US print more $ than at any point in history and which began even before a pandemic was declared and it resulted in a massive transfer from Main Street to Wall Street.

Trump campagined in 2016 on regulating Wall Street and bringing back Glass Steagall but he further de-regulated Wall Street instead, helping to create the 2023 banking crisis that began w SVB.

Trump campaigned as "loving" WikiLeaks but then let Mike Pompeo plot to imprison and murder Assange and refused to pardon Assange but pardoned financial criminal Michael Milken instead. The guy responsible for going after Assange, Pompeo, is still in Trump's good graces and one of his top aides is now in charge of picking staff for Trump's new State Dept.

Trump didn't start any new wars, but he didn't need to because 5 were already happening, some of which he greatly expanded and he dropped more bombs than Obama, he had a bunch of neocons in his cabinet and tried to coup Venezuela (which would have exacerbated the current migrant crisis) and killed an Iranian general on a diplomatic mission in an obv attempt to goad Iran into war. This cycle, war w Iran has been signaled by Vance, Trump and Pompeo.

I have plenty of reason to be skeptical because of the above track record. Everything I said comes w receipts.

Here is Whitney Webb's present website: https://unlimitedhangout.com/2024/11/investigative-reports/get-ready-for-the-republican-carbon-market/.


Here is a list of Whitney Webb's articles. They make a lot of sense: https://unlimitedhangout.com/author/whitney-webb/.

[Hispo]

...

But that won't happen. They'll dig up another swamp creature (old white man of course) for the next election, with dreams of getting the elusive "independent" votes. They've had so many of these "wake up calls" in the last decade or so, and they fucked up every one of them. So perhaps they should indeed dissolve into irrelevance.

Perhaps I did not express myself correctly when I said the Democrat party could move towards a little bit of the right to attract more people who are opposite to Trump but at the same time are not Democrats, so I would rather to focus on what senator Bernie Sanders have lately said on the defeat of Kamala Harris.

He says the democrat party has failed and abandoned the working class Americans, yet the Biden administration has officially said they disagree with the comments of Bernie Sanders on the reason which led to this historical failure of the Democrat party. I can tell sadly the blame game has officially started and it could probably continue for months...
This was the mother of all wake up calls for the party, in my opinion, in any other reasonable republic someone like Trump would have never had the chance to run, let alone winning this race. The democrat party needs to change of this will be the beginning of their end as coalition.

Should I assume you agree with the comments of Bernie on the reasons which led to this defeat ? Because I kind of agree with him.

[paxmao]

...

But that won't happen. They'll dig up another swamp creature (old white man of course) for the next election, with dreams of getting the elusive "independent" votes. They've had so many of these "wake up calls" in the last decade or so, and they fucked up every one of them. So perhaps they should indeed dissolve into irrelevance.

Perhaps I did not express myself correctly when I said the Democrat party could move towards a little bit of the right to attract more people who are opposite to Trump but at the same time are not Democrats, so I would rather to focus on what senator Bernie Sanders have lately said on the defeat of Kamala Harris.

He says the democrat party has failed and abandoned the working class Americans, yet the Biden administration has officially said they disagree with the comments of Bernie Sanders on the reason which led to this historical failure of the Democrat party. I can tell sadly the blame game has officially started and it could probably continue for months...
This was the mother of all wake up calls for the party, in my opinion, in any other reasonable republic someone like Trump would have never had the chance to run, let alone winning this race. The democrat party needs to change of this will be the beginning of their end as coalition.

Should I assume you agree with the comments of Bernie on the reasons which led to this defeat ? Because I kind of agree with him.

I think that will be the case. Trump has got no control mechanisms to his programme. SCOTUS, Senate (possibly both houses), the Presidency and the popular vote. In this case he is prone to implement the strongest set of politically radical ideas and policies which may work at the beginning, but are likely to alienate both some people who voted for him and some people who did not vote.

The Democrats need to place themselves as the safe, center, calm and serious alternative to the chaos and right wing ultra-activism. Most people in the US are not that convinced of some of the most radical Trumps ideas.

The Democrats however do need to self-analyse. Far too many mistakes (like not removing Biden on time, like choosing Kamala above someone with less links to the current administration, insisting in the most progressive and radical elements of their politics...)

BTW Bernie should be more into teaching how to lose than anything else. Like Corbyn in the UK, there is no way they can ever get to a majority of voters.

[theymos]

I was thinking about this more, and I had another idea:

Most Democrats don't realize this, but it's very clear to me that the core of today's Democratic Party emerged out of mainline Christianity*. Mainline Christians established many Ivy League universities, now considered very leftist. The term "social justice", which now has very leftist connotations, was originally used in the context of mainline churches talking about the good work they'd like to do in society. If you've been to a few mainline American churches, you may have noticed that in many cases they basically preach the Democratic Party platform; this is usually viewed as these churches bowing to cultural pressure, but in fact I think that it's the other way around. Members of mainline churches have long believed in things like an interventionist government, civicism, communitarianism, trust in authority, etc., and in more recent times they've embraced ideas of social justice, equity, inclusion, environmental justice, etc. There's a lot of overlap between Democrats and mainline Christians, so they've both moved on these issues at around the same time, and probably it was actually led by the churches.

People who classify themselves as "not religious" are often the children of people who belonged to mainline churches, and are therefore also often part of the same culture, with similar sorts of values. And people who call themselves atheist or agnostic tend to have an even closer cultural affinity to mainline Christians than the "not religious", since "strong" atheism/agnosticism in the West is historically/culturally sort of an extension of the Protestant intellectual project.

So after all of that preface: I think that the Democrats could profitably lean into their Christian roots. Instead of being the party of atheists and people kind of embarrassed to still be Christian in today's age, imagine if you got a pastor from one of the more centrist mainline denominations (ie. not the type who talk absolutely-nonstop about LGBT issues) to run for President. Have him talk about God, love, and peace a lot, quoting a ton from the bible. This would resonate a lot with people still active in mainline churches, of course, but even many atheists and non-religious people who come from that culture will agree very much with the message if not the exact phrasing, and perhaps it could swing some Evangelicals. It addresses one of the big problems I see with many Democrats, which is that they seem fake and nihilistic. When they talk about creating a bright future, it feels like an empty political slogan. But if you put it in religious terms, then it can feel more honest and inspiring. And to the extent that this kind of messaging actually promotes participation in mainline churches, this could create a virtuous cycle similar to how Evangelical churches create more Republican voters and Republican politicians create more Evangelicals. I think that there's also demand for politicians who you can believe are actually good people, not psychopaths like Kamala Harris who will keep innocent people in prison one minute and then talk about human rights the next.

As with my last idea in this thread, this is just an idea for something that might work, and it's not my dream scenario or anything.
* "Mainline Christianity" is a term of art, with "mainline" not intending to imply size or correctness. It more-or-less refers to old protestant denominations that are willing to read the bible non-literally, to varying degrees. Evangelicals, who read the bible very literally, are not mainline Christians.

[BADecker]

^^^ Of course. But most of that is secondary. It was originally designed to point at the primary objective. What is that objective? The saving of souls.

This life lasts for 100 years or less (generally). But the life following the Judgment at the end will last for an eternity. The idea of this life is to get people ready for the next life.

If people lose the focus of Jesus-salvation, the church will always decay into secularism. The people of whatever Party need to keep this focus in mind. The question is, how can one support the wars that kill millions worldwide and say that he is focused on Jesus-salvation? Isn't that what the Dems did in the Biden regime, and often in Republican regimes of the past?

[paxmao]

I was thinking about this more, and I had another idea:

Most Democrats don't realize this, but it's very clear to me that the core of today's Democratic Party emerged out of mainline Christianity*. Mainline Christians established many Ivy League universities, now considered very leftist. The term "social justice", which now has very leftist connotations, was originally used in the context of mainline churches talking about the good work they'd like to do in society. If you've been to a few mainline American churches, you may have noticed that in many cases they basically preach the Democratic Party platform; this is usually viewed as these churches bowing to cultural pressure, but in fact I think that it's the other way around. Members of mainline churches have long believed in things like an interventionist government, civicism, communitarianism, trust in authority, etc., and in more recent times they've embraced ideas of social justice, equity, inclusion, environmental justice, etc. There's a lot of overlap between Democrats and mainline Christians, so they've both moved on these issues at around the same time, and probably it was actually led by the churches.

People who classify themselves as "not religious" are often the children of people who belonged to mainline churches, and are therefore also often part of the same culture, with similar sorts of values. And people who call themselves atheist or agnostic tend to have an even closer cultural affinity to mainline Christians than the "not religious", since "strong" atheism/agnosticism in the West is historically/culturally sort of an extension of the Protestant intellectual project.

So after all of that preface: I think that the Democrats could profitably lean into their Christian roots. Instead of being the party of atheists and people kind of embarrassed to still be Christian in today's age, imagine if you got a pastor from one of the more centrist mainline denominations (ie. not the type who talk absolutely-nonstop about LGBT issues) to run for President. Have him talk about God, love, and peace a lot, quoting a ton from the bible. This would resonate a lot with people still active in mainline churches, of course, but even many atheists and non-religious people who come from that culture will agree very much with the message if not the exact phrasing, and perhaps it could swing some Evangelicals. It addresses one of the big problems I see with many Democrats, which is that they seem fake and nihilistic. When they talk about creating a bright future, it feels like an empty political slogan. But if you put it in religious terms, then it can feel more honest and inspiring. And to the extent that this kind of messaging actually promotes participation in mainline churches, this could create a virtuous cycle similar to how Evangelical churches create more Republican voters and Republican politicians create more Evangelicals. I think that there's also demand for politicians who you can believe are actually good people, not psychopaths like Kamala Harris who will keep innocent people in prison one minute and then talk about human rights the next.

As with my last idea in this thread, this is just an idea for something that might work, and it's not my dream scenario or anything.
* "Mainline Christianity" is a term of art, with "mainline" not intending to imply size or correctness. It more-or-less refers to old protestant denominations that are willing to read the bible non-literally, to varying degrees. Evangelicals, who read the bible very literally, are not mainline Christians.

I am going to go a bit further: true Christian values and true Communist values share 85% of the ethics. Main difference being that one claims to have moral authority in the name of "God" and others in the name of the "Workers", but otherwise solidarity, social peace, ethics,... all aligns well. Most times however the institutions (Chruch, governments) are not even close to living to these standards and that is where things fail of course. When the "religion as opium" idea was put forward it spoke of a Church fully aligned with the economic powers and being used to keep people "at their stage in life".

I think that true Christianism even as originally conceived by the very early Christians was a social activism that wanted nothing to do with the current governments and much closer to the Theory of Liberation so hated by Pope Wojtyla.  

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2023/09/21/why-ratzinger-and-wojtyla-were-correct-about-liberation-theology/

Throughout the 1970s and early 1980s, Marxist liberation theology was becoming increasingly popular in Latin America, a continent then under the yoke of many military dictatorships (often backed by the United States) and the site of obscene inequalities in wealth distribution. Peruvian Dominican Gustavo Gutierrez is credited with coining the term “liberation theology;” Gutierrez himself studied Marxism in France, which inspired him to find a new framework for understanding the causes of poverty.

So there is actually a full possible philosophical background to approaching not just Christianism, but any religion that tells you to care about others (most) from the Democrats. Even if you think of it, the most clear or at least well known example of fight for rights was Luther King, that is REVEREND Martin Luther King Jr. and the other great historic figure Gandhi, was also deeply observant of religion.

Yep, the Democrats needs to start figuring out that a social programme cannot be carried out against the core layers of a society, but with their help. Trumps greatest success has been to control the narrative and make as much noise as possible about everything that divides society.

[Hispo]

Joe Biden realizing what the state of the party is and also realizing his political career is pretty much over and what is ahead in the future for the country, he has decided to do something he had completely ruled out and pardoned his son Hunter Biden from all federal prosecution related to his gun crimes and lying on a federal form to obtain a handgun.

It is a move I would have not expected from him in normal circumstances and it pretty much damages his image and the image of the party, but he knows it is over and it may be the last chance for him to ease the life of his son, even though he is not the best son on the planet, that is...

I disagree with his decision, though I can comprehend it.

What are your thoughts on this?
Do you think this will further stain the image of the democrat party or this is meaningless to what is ahead for it?

[Faktpanic]

There is a future, because before the party was adequate. Remember the days of Obama, he did a lot, a good man.

[paxmao]

Joe Biden realizing what the state of the party is and also realizing his political career is pretty much over and what is ahead in the future for the country, he has decided to do something he had completely ruled out and pardoned his son Hunter Biden from all federal prosecution related to his gun crimes and lying on a federal form to obtain a handgun.

It is a move I would have not expected from him in normal circumstances and it pretty much damages his image and the image of the party, but he knows it is over and it may be the last chance for him to ease the life of his son, even though he is not the best son on the planet, that is...

I disagree with his decision, though I can comprehend it.

What are your thoughts on this?
Do you think this will further stain the image of the democrat party or this is meaningless to what is ahead for it?

Same as you. I guess he weighted the dis-credit versus having his only son left (two other died) in prison and he said... fuck politics. I would have done exactly the same because family comes first - although for that same reason I am not part of a party nor do active politics in leading roles.

I guess when you are 82 your considerations about what matters and what does not become actually more clear than ever, because there is no time to correct mistakes and you probably want to have your few Christmas left knowing that your son will be there sharing dinner.

But what looks inmininent is Trump going full blown into lawfare, while pretending is fighting the "deep state". Seems like anyone opposing will be accused of something, Stalin style.

[Hispo]

Joe Biden realizing what the state of the party is and also realizing his political career is pretty much over and what is ahead in the future for the country, he has decided to do something he had completely ruled out and pardoned his son Hunter Biden from all federal prosecution related to his gun crimes and lying on a federal form to obtain a handgun.

It is a move I would have not expected from him in normal circumstances and it pretty much damages his image and the image of the party, but he knows it is over and it may be the last chance for him to ease the life of his son, even though he is not the best son on the planet, that is...

I disagree with his decision, though I can comprehend it.

What are your thoughts on this?
Do you think this will further stain the image of the democrat party or this is meaningless to what is ahead for it?

Same as you. I guess he weighted the dis-credit versus having his only son left (two other died) in prison and he said... fuck politics. I would have done exactly the same because family comes first - although for that same reason I am not part of a party nor do active politics in leading roles.

I guess when you are 82 your considerations about what matters and what does not become actually more clear than ever, because there is no time to correct mistakes and you probably want to have your few Christmas left knowing that your son will be there sharing dinner.

But what looks inmininent is Trump going full blown into lawfare, while pretending is fighting the "deep state". Seems like anyone opposing will be accused of something, Stalin style.

Sure, the democrat party is already pretty much inna bad position anyways... so In my opinion Biden took advantage of the confusion and turmoil going on, so he can get his son out of prison and spend Christmas with him and the rest of the family. Though I can assure you Fox and Newmax are going to take advantage of this decision from Biden to throw as much shit at him and the democrat part during what is left of this year, trying to increase the popularity and push the narrative Trump had about Joe Biden being a crook politician. Unfortunately for his legacy in politics, this pardon indeed will make him look like a crook.

[paxmao]

Joe Biden realizing what the state of the party is and also realizing his political career is pretty much over and what is ahead in the future for the country, he has decided to do something he had completely ruled out and pardoned his son Hunter Biden from all federal prosecution related to his gun crimes and lying on a federal form to obtain a handgun.

It is a move I would have not expected from him in normal circumstances and it pretty much damages his image and the image of the party, but he knows it is over and it may be the last chance for him to ease the life of his son, even though he is not the best son on the planet, that is...

I disagree with his decision, though I can comprehend it.

What are your thoughts on this?
Do you think this will further stain the image of the democrat party or this is meaningless to what is ahead for it?

Same as you. I guess he weighted the dis-credit versus having his only son left (two other died) in prison and he said... fuck politics. I would have done exactly the same because family comes first - although for that same reason I am not part of a party nor do active politics in leading roles.

I guess when you are 82 your considerations about what matters and what does not become actually more clear than ever, because there is no time to correct mistakes and you probably want to have your few Christmas left knowing that your son will be there sharing dinner.

But what looks inmininent is Trump going full blown into lawfare, while pretending is fighting the "deep state". Seems like anyone opposing will be accused of something, Stalin style.

Sure, the democrat party is already pretty much inna bad position anyways... so In my opinion Biden took advantage of the confusion and turmoil going on, so he can get his son out of prison and spend Christmas with him and the rest of the family. Though I can assure you Fox and Newmax are going to take advantage of this decision from Biden to throw as much shit at him and the democrat part during what is left of this year, trying to increase the popularity and push the narrative Trump had about Joe Biden being a crook politician. Unfortunately for his legacy in politics, this pardon indeed will make him look like a crook.

I think Trump will do a lot of Trump stuff during the next few years and it will be to the liking of his most adept basis, but he is not prudent and probably cares little about whatever happens after him - or even better - he may preffer to be better than anything after.  That may be the best help that the Democrats can get to have some opportunity in four years (if Trump lives 4 more years).

Whatever Biden has done, it has been done a million times before and I got the feeling that Trump is going to free quite a few of his fellow felons.

[Darkesthourred]

They have no future

[Hispo]

bringing up this thread again to the front page, because I would like to discuss how (despite of Trump already starting his plan to massively deport immigrants and heating up international conflicts with allies) it seems the Democrat party has not been enable yet to re-organize and build and strong opposition against what is going on in the country.
They seem to be still fragmented in different factions which cannot unify (beyond not liking Trump as a leader). Bernie Sanders told the current party is not longer the party of the working people and not that Trump is in powerz they barely seem to self-reflect on the comments of those like Bernie.

I mean, the leadership of the Democrat party does not even seem to be aware of what really led Trump to victory for this second time, if one does not identify the problem first ,then it becomes almost impossible for one to adjust and fix it.

[NotATether]

I mean, the leadership of the Democrat party does not even seem to be aware of what really led Trump to victory for this second time, if one does not identify the problem first ,then it becomes almost impossible for one to adjust and fix it.

That's the thing, the democrats have no leader.

Biden obviously went through sharp mental decline, Kamala is nowhere to be found, and of course they do not accept Bernie.

Dem voters are just left fending for themselves.

If they want to win an election in the future, then the old guard needs to step aside. Young blood is required.

[montaga]

Politics, two wings of the same bird. Politics has no place in a modern society, paying someone who then works against you, its insane.

MAGA is the title for the HIGHEST DEGREE in the SATANIC CHURCH
Maga is a WITCH in Latin ... SORCERESS in Italian ... means EVIL WICKED CALAMITY DISASTER in Japanese and is a SUCKER or EASILY FOOLED IDIOT in Nigerian slang.

[BADecker]

On the future of the Democrat party


Let's eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

[Hispo]

I mean, the leadership of the Democrat party does not even seem to be aware of what really led Trump to victory for this second time, if one does not identify the problem first ,then it becomes almost impossible for one to adjust and fix it.

That's the thing, the democrats have no leader.

Biden obviously went through sharp mental decline, Kamala is nowhere to be found, and of course they do not accept Bernie.

Dem voters are just left fending for themselves.

If they want to win an election in the future, then the old guard needs to step aside. Young blood is required.

The thing with young blood is how disconnected, tone deaf and selfish the current democrat party elite is. They are not willing to listen to Bernie because that would mean they admitted fault on abandoning the working people of the country, and those who are younger within the party and could be a better replacement for politicians like Nancy Pelosi are more left leaning than the establishment wished, in the the Nancy and company are capitalist who play the game of inside trading within wall street.
The have got time by the midterm elections to choose a new leader, let us see if they will be able to do by then, otherwise the Republican party will further extent their control other both the house and the Senate.

[Fiatless]

The thing with young blood is how disconnected, tone deaf and selfish the current democrat party elite is. They are not willing to listen to Bernie because that would mean they admitted fault on abandoning the working people of the country, and those who are younger within the party and could be a better replacement for politicians like Nancy Pelosi are more left leaning than the establishment wished, in the the Nancy and company are capitalist who play the game of inside trading within wall street.
The have got time by the midterm elections to choose a new leader, let us see if they will be able to do by then, otherwise the Republican party will further extent their control other both the house and the Senate.

Democrats Elect New Leader as Party Frantically Looks for Path Forward: Meet DNC Chair Ken Martin

Before that midterm elections Ken Martin will lead the opposition after he was voted as the chair of the Democratic National Committee. He talks about rebranding the party and his policies will be based on three pillars: Build to Win, Build to Expand and Build to Last. The main problem he would face is to unite the party that is currently in disarray. The stepping down of Joe Biden, the automatic ticket given to Kamala Harris and the election defeat has given the party a knockout which has scattered them.

[DeathAngel]

They will be back to put up a much better fight for the next election. They left it too late running with Biden when it was obvious to all that he was not fit for purpose. I think that with little options they chose Kamala to run, almost as a sacrificial lamb. They are saving the big guns for the next election. I think they will go with Hillary or Michelle Obama.

[Marseliesa]

Trump will restore order, down with LGBT and BLM!