Solving ECDLP with Kangaroos: Part 1 + 2 + RCKangaroo

[vaccar73]

It seem the MKeys/s goes down over time for some reason.

Yeah, I really wonder why as well. I think it has to do with some basic laws of physics, like... things heat up, and heat = energy, so you're losing more energy on disipating heat rather than on jumping RC kangaroos.

Any suggestions on what command parameters I should use for puzzle 135 with this current Gpu setup, I am not sure what the dp and tames parameters do exactly.

Would it be better to split up the 135 range ?

I hopes it is OK that I am asking questions, like I said before I am new to this.

I suggest you don't, since this a demo program. You will waste your time, you need a fully distributed software system, not an .exe Frankly, all of your questions are kinda stupid. Computing power is a commodity that can be bought, and you are asking people to show pictures of their oil drilling setup just because they drove a car. Or setup of their solar power grid just because they can light up their TV.

Frankly, all of your assumptions are kinda stupid

The 3060m uses lower wattage and runs pretty cool, plus i got a good cooling system, the rtx 2070 runs pretty hot though

Using other programs like bitcrack, keyhuntcuda, vanitygen, etc, etc I did not see mkey rate drop after hours and hours of runtime

I think it has more to do with memory being used up, so I think you are wrong about the heating issue.

Yes I understand that gpus can be rented by minute, hour, day, week, month, I have already did that and tested rckangaroo with 8 4090 gpus, but I saw a post from OP which made me think he was using his own gpus

Exactly. I'm a retired coder, a good one, so I do it for fun mostly when I have time and interest, and it becomes boring after a month of managing a network of GPUs.

He could certainly afford to use his own gpus with his winnings, so it is not a far stretch to think he has some type of hardware setup. For me building the rig and seeing how fast you can get it running is part of the fun.

So you are saying he has no hardware rigs setup at all, you seem to know everything, but I have seen OP saying you were wrong about a lot of things in this thread alone, almost every one of your posts.

I do not see myself wasting time, I am doing this for a hobby, for fun and most importantly to learn. How many puzzles did you solve with your super secret software that no one has seen? If you have not solved any then maybe you have wasted a lot more time then me.

I think some of the people on this forum just like to be rude to new comers to discourage people from trying to solve puzzles, the less people that are doing them, the better their chances are to solving it, maybe you are one of those people, not sure.

[kTimesG]

It seem the MKeys/s goes down over time for some reason.

Yeah, I really wonder why as well. I think it has to do with some basic laws of physics, like... things heat up, and heat = energy, so you're losing more energy on disipating heat rather than on jumping RC kangaroos.

Any suggestions on what command parameters I should use for puzzle 135 with this current Gpu setup, I am not sure what the dp and tames parameters do exactly.

Would it be better to split up the 135 range ?

I hopes it is OK that I am asking questions, like I said before I am new to this.

I suggest you don't, since this a demo program. You will waste your time, you need a fully distributed software system, not an .exe Frankly, all of your questions are kinda stupid. Computing power is a commodity that can be bought, and you are asking people to show pictures of their oil drilling setup just because they drove a car. Or setup of their solar power grid just because they can light up their TV.

Frankly, all of your assumptions are kinda stupid

The 3060m uses lower wattage and runs pretty cool, plus i got a good cooling system, the rtx 2070 runs pretty hot though

Using other programs like bitcrack, keyhuntcuda, vanitygen, etc, etc I did not see mkey rate drop after hours and hours of runtime

I think it has more to do with memory being used up, so I think you are wrong about the heating issue.

Yes I understand that gpus can be rented by minute, hour, day, week, month, I have already did that and tested rckangaroo with 8 4090 gpus, but I saw a post from OP which made me think he was using his own gpus

Exactly. I'm a retired coder, a good one, so I do it for fun mostly when I have time and interest, and it becomes boring after a month of managing a network of GPUs.

He could certainly afford to use his own gpus with his winnings, so it is not a far stretch to think he has some type of hardware setup. For me building the rig and seeing how fast you can get it running is part of the fun.

So you are saying he has no hardware rigs setup at all, you seem to know everything, but I have seen OP saying you were wrong about a lot of things in this thread alone, almost every one of your posts.

I do not see myself wasting time, I am doing this for a hobby, for fun and most importantly to learn. How many puzzles did you solve with your super secret software that no one has seen? If you have not solved any then maybe you have wasted a lot more time then me.

I think some of the people on this forum just like to be rude to new comers to discourage people from trying to solve puzzles, the less people that are doing them, the better their chances are to solving it, maybe you are one of those people, not sure.

My assumptions are based on what I'm seeing you put out

If you want to use an unoptimized PROOF OF CONCEPT software that has no networking built in, and that requires 1000 top-end GPUs to solve Puzzle 135 in ~1 year, and better yet, by splitting it into ranges (probably because you found out there is no networking built in), that's your problem, not mine.

I only gave you a suggestion: don't do it. Every time you split, you increase your running time by 41%. Two splits? Double your time.

So maybe first learn, and then throw yourself into a witch hunt.

[vaccar73]

I only gave you a suggestion: don't do it. Every time you split, you increase your running time by 41%. Two splits? Double your time.

So maybe first learn, and then throw yourself into a witch hunt.

no, you were rude and said that my questions are stupid, and made some other snarky comments about solar panels, and oil drilling

you could not just answer a question without trying to belittle me, the question was not even directed to you

I am trying to learn, that is why I ask questions, is that OK with you ? Do I have your permission to ask questions on this forum ?

You want to be rude to me I will give it right back, you may know a lot more about this stuff then I do, but the fact is you have not solved a puzzle yet, and you probably never will.

Maybe you need to LEARN how to be a little bit more humble, get over you technical arrogance, and work on your decorum.

[Cricktor]

@Dontbeatool2
If you post the wrong script then why don't you edit your post with the wrong script and replace it with the correct one?

And please, post code in [code]...[/code] tags, not only for better readability but mainly for the reason that the forum code may gobble up certain character sequences in your code because they may be interpreted as bbcode or sometimes smileys (you know that e.g. [i] isn't that uncommon in code, guess what happens if that were in your code snippets posted like you did).

Additionally you violate forum rule #32 (see here for rules to avoid possible trouble).

Every time you split, you increase your running time by 41%. Two splits? Double your time.

I'm not soo deep in the technicalities of the method using Kangaroos. Do you (or anybody else) mind explaining in more or less short words why there's such a significant penalty by splitting the range? I struggle a bit at the moment to wrap my head around for an explanation.

If that's is so, than splitting the range to distribute work to multiple GPUs seems not the time and energy efficient way. What's the more efficient work load distribution method? Distributing the number of Kangaroos over multiple GPUs all working on the same range? How to sync efficiently?

My apologies, I'm probably too much of only an interested bystander whose brain has been (partially?) fried by too much of let's say sub-par thought-out ideas and brain-dead chit-chat in the mega threads
Bitcoin puzzle transaction ~32 BTC prize to who solves it
== Bitcoin challenge transaction: ~1000 BTC total bounty to solvers! ==UPDATED==

~~~

You may have a point. Questions should always be possible. It's sometimes easier to bark than to wiggle the tail or be constructive, call it whatever you want. Questions are sometimes or more often misinterpreted as stupid or lazyness or whatever, highly depends on the question and its perception by others which is also highly subjective. It happens that others react harsh, me included, when newbies step in and "do their thing" (no pun intended, everybody here once was a newbie).

It's good to point that out, helps to reflect if ones own response is actually appropriate.

[kTimesG]

I'm not soo deep in the technicalities of the method using Kangaroos. Do you (or anybody else) mind explaining in more or less short words why there's such a significant penalty by splitting the range? I struggle a bit at the moment to wrap my head around for an explanation.

If that's is so, than splitting the range to distribute work to multiple GPUs seems not the time and energy efficient way. What's the more efficient work load distribution method? Distributing the number of Kangaroos over multiple GPUs all working on the same range? How to sync efficiently?

Because if you need c*sqrt(n) steps to solve for an n-interval, you need sqrt(2)*c*sqrt(n) to solve for two n/2-intervals. That's an 41% increase in the time to solve, for every halving. It's actually the most efficient way to intentionally increase the necessary number of steps - splitting a problem in two halves until there's nothing more to split

It's basically moving an sqrt(n) complexity problem towards an (n) complexity problem (brute-force).

[vaccar73]

you need a fully distributed software system, not an .exe

I actually am/been working on something likes this that uses c# and utilizes cpu to run on my computers that do not have a good Nvidia gpu, it is more a brute force method.

I also want to make something that will utilize Nvida cuda to use with a mining rig that I have been putting together. I know mining is not lucrative, I am only building it for puzzles and maybe some AI stuff in the future

The c++ code is a bit harder for me to understand, so I have been testing and looking at other cuda applications that do this, like rckangaroo, vanitygen bitcrack and stuff like that, trying to learn the best methods of going about it.

I do not think I will be renting gpus from Simplepod anymore, I just don't have the money for it at this point, I want to utilize the hardware I already have and try not to spend too much on this.

You may have a point. Questions should always be possible. It's sometimes easier to bark than to wiggle the tail or be constructive, call it whatever you want. Questions are sometimes or more often misinterpreted as stupid or lazyness or whatever, highly depends on the question and its perception by others which is also highly subjective. It happens that others react harsh, me included, when newbies step in and "do their thing" (no pun intended, everybody here once was a newbie).

It's good to point that out, helps to reflect if ones own response is actually appropriate.

Anyway this will be my last post here on the forum, I feel kind of bad that my questions have caused RetiredCoder's thread to go off topic, I did not intend to derail this thread, so I will find some where else to go if I need to ask questions.

[Cricktor]

I also want to make something that will utilize Nvida cuda to use with a mining rig that I have been putting together. I know mining is not lucrative, I am only building it for puzzles and maybe some AI stuff in the future

Take into account that remaining puzzles still need massive numbers of GPUs to find a solution in a competitive time. I don't think there's a shortcut to this. Your own GPUs aren't for free: you either had or have to buy them and they need energy while they "crunch numbers".

This isn't meant as discouragemant.

Anyway this will be my last post here on the forum, I feel kind of bad that my questions have caused RetiredCoder's thread to go off topic, I did not intend to derail this thread, so I will find some where else to go if I need to ask questions.

That's your decision. You need a thicker skin here.

~~~

Oops, well, that's almost embarrassing.    Apparently I didn't see the forest with all the trees around me... thanks!

[JackMazzoni]

How to install/compile on windows?

[jovica888]

I am not sure how Kangaroo algorithm is functioning but for example I run JeanLucPons/Kangaroo a few time...

I saw that it creates about 2^19 Kangaroos at the start (I have Nvidia 1070ti - it sucks) and then it finds solutions for small ranges really fast

So my question is, how are the starting points for those Kangaroos created or selected?

If it is not already working in this way, I thought maybe it would be good to make it like this

So from a lower position of range, you create 2^19 kangaroos and those Kangaroos are consecutive - one by one.... from 1G to 2^19G

Then you create a jumps and all jumps are random but those jumps must be "jump_value % 2^19 = 0" and the same jumps we use for the public_key we are searching. because jumps are "jump_value % 2^19 = 0" then all starting Kangaroos will not collide with themselves because it is not possible. Public key is jumping with those jumps and save points where X is starting with (I do not know) 0000 for example

Then we move each kangaroo with those jumps and we move public_key with those jumps UP so we are adding points basically

A collision will happen when 1 of the starting kangaroos hits the path of public_key...

The starting Kangaroo that is going to hit the path of public_key will basically follow this rule

starting_value_of_that_Kangaroo % 2^19 = private_key_of_public_key % 2^19

So if you can create more starting Kangaroos with more GPUs then you can jump larger jumps and collision will occur faster... right?

Thank you (sorry for such a bad English)

[RetiredCoder]

So my question is, how are the starting points for those Kangaroos created or selected?

Random, within some interval. For SOTA, these intervals are shown on the diagram on this page:
https://github.com/RetiredC/Kang-1

Therefore the rest of your assumptions is incorrect, learn sources to see how it works.
When huge number of kangaroos is used basically you can assume that you use birthday paradox to find a collision.

[newsecurity1986]

Congratulations on the 100 merits! What did you say you would do when you got here to celebrate? A mini puzzle or something else?

[kTimesG]

Congratulations on the 100 merits! What did you say you would do when you got here to celebrate? A mini puzzle or something else?

Judging by his new status, my guess is this happened after 3 consecutive ECDLP records:

1. Some mini-puzzles to grab some BCH change residuals.

2. Publish some breakthroughs directly via code - why write papers, it's boring.

3. Silence

4. A trip to Vegas.

5. Trying to cheat on the big casinos after a careful research on the roulette systems.

6. The mafia grabbed him, he went too greedy.

7. He lost all the puzzle winnings to the mob bosses, in exchange for his limbs to stay in their place.

8. The comeback: "no pain, no gain!".

[RetiredCoder]

Congratulations on the 100 merits! What did you say you would do when you got here to celebrate? A mini puzzle or something else?

Sure! 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538285

[newsecurity1986]

Congratulations on the 100 merits! What did you say you would do when you got here to celebrate? A mini puzzle or something else?

Sure! 
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538285

Oh damn! I arrived too late to the party.

[newsecurity1986]

@RetiredCoder, How true is this?

[RetiredCoder]

@RetiredCoder, How true is this?

This fight with random values is tremendous, especially with the sources, so I support it as I can!
The answer is too boring as I said before, google gambler’s fallacy and Bayes' theorem if you are a nerd.
But instead of reading silly books, let's have some fun and write another 100 pages in "blah-blah" thread!

[newsecurity1986]

@RetiredCoder, How true is this?

This fight with random values is tremendous, especially with the sources, so I support it as I can!
The answer is too boring as I said before, google gambler’s fallacy and Bayes' theorem if you are a nerd.
But instead of reading silly books, let's have some fun and write another 100 pages in "blah-blah" thread!

World is getting crazier.

[jean1984]

Hello, my name is Jean from Venezuela, I live in Brazil and I speak Spanish, I'm new to this and I saw that you have discovered the key to puzzle 69, I'm trying to test this but everyone is talking and fighting and I really don't understand, I like to try with the keyhunt options and try with gpt chat to create a script by python, I'm not a computer scientist or mathematician, in fact I use a google translator, could you help me with an approach to test in any other puzzle? any clue, a code snippet and I would try to search something or create something with AI because I'm not a programmer, I would appreciate it, the last thing I tried is a script that apparently filters 75% of the keys and does a partial comparison between hashes and I think it's a good approach but without a little clue as to how the ranges could be reduced or a different approach it is really almost impossible for me because I don't know much but if you explain it to me I understand, if you could help me with something I would appreciate it, congratulations on your achievement

[RetiredCoder]

...I saw that you have discovered the key to puzzle 69...

Great.
I did not solve #69. Moreover, I never searched for low-level puzzles and I'm not going to do it in the future.

[mcdouglasx]

@RetiredCoder, How true is this?

This fight with random values is tremendous, especially with the sources, so I support it as I can!
The answer is too boring as I said before, google gambler’s fallacy and Bayes' theorem if you are a nerd.
But instead of reading silly books, let's have some fun and write another 100 pages in "blah-blah" thread!

The final definitive conclusion was the boring part.