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kelbs (OP)
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December 01, 2024, 08:05:19 PM
 #1

I'm planning to move my funds to a multisig setup with Unchained.

How can I store my own funds, plus funds for several family members, in the same multisig wallet, but have the funds segregated so I don't have to keep track of balances?

HD wallets should allow for separate chains of addresses within the wallet, right? But how do I actually do that? Maybe passphrases to segregate the accounts within the wallet?

Would love some advice!
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December 01, 2024, 08:19:42 PM
 #2

Well if you have a regular BIP39 HD wallet, then if you toggle via your wallet software you will find out you have a series of addresses including change addresses too. Now the answer is yes you can segregate your funds or coins rather in a particular address using coin control. When your seed is hashed you get a master private key that is used to create child keys for each of the addresses you see in the HD wallet.

This means that with coin control you can work with a particular address independently by receiving with it or send coins from it only by making use of just it's child key to sign the transactions. Simply put you can get the private key for a particular address and access it independently by spending and receiving with it. But mind you you need to segregate it in the wallet that has the master key using coin control to avoid the wallet spending from it to consolidate transactions.

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December 01, 2024, 08:25:22 PM
 #3

You may want to consider creating different wallets with the same seed phrases and different derviation paths.
You can also have different wallets with the same seed phrases and different passphrases.

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December 01, 2024, 09:06:54 PM
 #4

The first two suggestions actually would work, either you make use of one wallet and the multiple addresses there or you make use of two or more wallet. This is easily achievable by using a single seed phrase and adding different passphrases to each one to make them new and different wallets. Since you mentioned multisig using this passphrase will be a little more complicated because you might have to get a coresponding multi sig set for that too which will seem way to complicated to me

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kelbs (OP)
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December 01, 2024, 10:24:57 PM
 #5

The first two suggestions actually would work, either you make use of one wallet and the multiple addresses there or you make use of two or more wallet. This is easily achievable by using a single seed phrase and adding different passphrases to each one to make them new and different wallets. Since you mentioned multisig using this passphrase will be a little more complicated because you might have to get a coresponding multi sig set for that too which will seem way to complicated to me

yeah exactly, I wasn't sure how to set up the passphrases with multisig, especially in a way that also works with unchained.

So if I import the xpubs into wallet software like sparrow, I should be able to see which root addresses a given address is derived from, right? That way when I'm depositing with a brand new address, I know which bucket I'm depositing into?
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December 01, 2024, 11:18:34 PM
 #6

yeah exactly, I wasn't sure how to set up the passphrases with multisig, especially in a way that also works with unchained.

So if I import the xpubs into wallet software like Sparrow, I should be able to see which root addresses a given address is derived from, right? That way, when I'm depositing with a brand new address, I know which bucket I'm depositing into?

Yes, just make sure it is a separate wallet.
Since you are talking about splitting the wallet funds, I suggest you create a multiple wallet instead of using a single multisignature wallet for safety purposes.
You can reuse your backup seed, but the other master public key must be different, or, like they said, you can use passphrases to get a separated wallet.

If you are going to create this wallet on the same device, make sure to create it on an offline PC for safety purposes.

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December 02, 2024, 02:54:23 PM
 #7


yeah exactly, I wasn't sure how to set up the passphrases with multisig, especially in a way that also works with unchained.

So if I import the xpubs into wallet software like sparrow, I should be able to see which root addresses a given address is derived from, right? That way when I'm depositing with a brand new address, I know which bucket I'm depositing into?

I don’t quite get your question but let me explain in my own way, when you set up your seed phrase with a passphrase that gives you wan entire different master public key with that wallet without passphrase. This master public key is what you will use to communicate with other the other multisig co-signers to create a new wallet.

For example in a 2-of-3 multisig wallet creation, create the three co-signing wallet with just seed phrase. Then creating a new multisig wallet you can use maybe co-signer A seed phrase and add a passphrase to it, this changes the master public and creates a new multi sig wallet from the first one even with the other two co-signers not adding passphrase but sticking to their own seed phrase alone like in the first setup.

This is somewhat advance so you might as well be careful or just set a single sig wallet with different passphrase

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December 03, 2024, 04:43:41 AM
Merited by Pmalek (2), apogio (1)
 #8

If you are the only person with access to those coins and you are creating all the keys using the same wallet on the same machine and storing the seed phrases similarly, then there is no point in separating the coins and no point in using a multi-signature wallet for any of that.
You would only complicate things while giving yourself a false sense of additional security.

Your design only makes sense if the cosigners are different people.
That way you can have one master key and each family member having their own master key. Then you create a separate wallet for each of them using your key and their key in a 2-of-2 multi-sig type (your key + family member 1) (your key + family member 2) and so on.
This provides you with true additional security while truly separating the coins.

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December 04, 2024, 07:05:52 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2024, 07:36:26 AM by satscraper
 #9

I'm planning to move my funds to a multisig setup with Unchained.

How can I store my own funds, plus funds for several family members, in the same multisig wallet, but have the funds segregated so I don't have to keep track of balances?

HD wallets should allow for separate chains of addresses within the wallet, right? But how do I actually do that? Maybe passphrases to segregate the accounts within the wallet?

Would love some advice!

Fund segregation by any means i.e. different passphrases, derivation paths etc  in a multisig wallet  between those who are cosigners of this wallet is at strife with the premise of multisig the core of which is to split  among cosigners the  right   over the use of  the single fund.

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December 04, 2024, 07:53:49 AM
 #10

In general, I think it's difficult to combine collaborative custody with family custody.

This is, mainly, the reason why these companies allow you to add "trusted beneficiaries", so they can, in the worst case scenario, acquire the key that they hold for you.

If you wanted to do a solution where no 3rd party was involved, pooya87's answer is the best you 'll find, while there are some good variations that you could apply.

How does Unchained handle their keys with their customers?

Supposing you create a 2-of-3 vault, do they give you all the 3 keys, while simultaneously maintaining a backup of one of these themselves?

If so, then essentially transforming pooya87's solution into adding Unchained too, you could make a 2-of-3 multisig and:
1. keep the key A for yourself
2. give the key B to your inheritor X
3. allow unchained to hold a backup of the key C and also keep it for yourself.

Changing the key B would create multiple vaults and each vault would be given to your corresponding inheritor.

This would essentially improve pooya87's suggestion, in a way that, even if the worst happens, the inheritors would be able to obtain the key C from the company, so they wouldn't be locked out of the vault.

But, once more, in order for them to obtain key C, they need to be added as trusted beneficiaries.

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December 08, 2024, 01:51:23 PM
 #11

if you just accumulate funds there without spending you can do it . Having multisig hd wallet and one of its  addresses for each man. really single wallets which can be used as such. This all will end if you spend something
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December 11, 2024, 12:45:07 AM
Last edit: May 06, 2025, 04:07:34 PM by mprep
 #12

If you are the only person with access to those coins and you are creating all the keys using the same wallet on the same machine and storing the seed phrases similarly, then there is no point in separating the coins and no point in using a multi-signature wallet for any of that.
You would only complicate things while giving yourself a false sense of additional security.

Your design only makes sense if the cosigners are different people.
That way you can have one master key and each family member having their own master key. Then you create a separate wallet for each of them using your key and their key in a 2-of-2 multi-sig type (your key + family member 1) (your key + family member 2) and so on.
This provides you with true additional security while truly separating the coins.

Maybe you and I have different preferences in the different storage method tradeoffs. The reason I chose 2-of-3 multisig is redundancy i.e. fault tolerance. I can lose a key and still have access to the funds. In a 2-of-2 setup if I lose either key I lose the coins. The only way to have redundancy in that setup is to store multiple copies of both keys, but now you're talking about storing 4 keys instead of 3 in the 2-of-3 setup. Additionally, in the event I pass away and my family isn't sure how to recover the funds, unchained can assist them with the technical aspects. That isn't true for a home grown 2-of-2 setup.

Unchained will generate one key themselves.
I will generate two keys using separate devices.
I will choose a location to store a key and a family member will choose a location.

In this setup there are different key generation techniques used and different storage methods used and different geographic locations used. Redundancy.

I will likely be the only person moving funds, but I will be storing both my own funds and funds of family members, hence the desire to segregate the funds. I can sign transactions using the unchained key and my own key. The family member storing one key will also be able to do the same (e.g. if I'm incapacitated or unavailable or w/e) but they likely won't ever do this.

I'm not willing to trade away the redundancy provided by the 2-of-3 multisig setup, even if it means its harder or impossible to segregate funds. That said, I'm willing to listen to arguments for why my logic is flawed but so far I haven't seen any convincing arguments.



In general, I think it's difficult to combine collaborative custody with family custody.

Agreed, hence why I created this thread.

How does Unchained handle their keys with their customers?

I create and store keys A and B. They created and store key C and sign with it when I ask them to.

they need to be added as trusted beneficiaries.

My plan was always to add family members as beneficiaries or whatever is necessary for them to inherit the correct amounts. Is there a downside to doing this? Seems like the easiest and lowest risk way to pass funds on.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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December 11, 2024, 08:01:40 AM
Merited by pooya87 (2)
 #13

I create and store keys A and B. They created and store key C and sign with it when I ask them to.

So you have no idea about key C? They don't provide it to you? You don't even know its XPUB? I don't think so, because you wouldn't be able to even see how much money you have, unless they have a specific app that can do it on the background and show you your total holdings.

My plan was always to add family members as beneficiaries or whatever is necessary for them to inherit the correct amounts. Is there a downside to doing this? Seems like the easiest and lowest risk way to pass funds on.

The only thing you have to do, since you want to include Unchained in the process, is to:
1. add them as trusted beneficiaries to Unchained, doing full KYC for them, so Unchained knows they can share key C with them.
2. let them know one of keys A or B, because they will need one of these to finally get the money.

There is no downside, since Unchained is a reputable company and, at the same time, they can't do anything bad if they only know one of the 3 keys in a 2-of-3 setup.



The difficulty arises when you need to split the funds in separate addresses (or accounts) for every different inheritor.

I would ask Unchained about it. I don't think of a very easy way to do it, especially if you are totally agnostic about the 3rd key.


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December 14, 2024, 12:07:49 AM
 #14

So you have no idea about key C? They don't provide it to you? You don't even know its XPUB? I don't think so, because you wouldn't be able to even see how much money you have, unless they have a specific app that can do it on the background and show you your total holdings.

They provide xpubs and a wallet configuration file that has all the needed data to recreate the multisig wallet. You can't access the unchained seed but you can have them sign txs with it.
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December 14, 2024, 08:08:11 AM
 #15

They provide xpubs and a wallet configuration file that has all the needed data to recreate the multisig wallet. You can't access the unchained seed but you can have them sign txs with it.

Ok so basically you have 2 of the 3 keys. I would do it the way I described above and I would ask them for suggestion for the splitting that you wish to achieve.

Since you trust the company, you can let them indicate the best ways to achieve your goals. That's what they do after all, they offer collaborative custody, so they may have some ideas.



Have you also checked Casa, or any other company? So that you can spot the differences between the two?

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December 14, 2024, 06:20:01 PM
 #16

'in the event I pass away and my family doesn't care...'
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December 15, 2024, 05:27:50 PM
 #17

'in the event I pass away and my family doesn't care...'

Well, I guess in that case you don't have to care about their inheritance either.  Wink
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