Removal of BestChange ANN from local sections

[Josefjix]

Wouldn't all the others be removed as well in that case, rather than just a selected few?

My comment was merely a conjecture. Thinking about it, I don't think we have a mod who could assess the different threads in multiple languages and determine which was made using a tool and which wasn't. That will need command of multiple languages, so the more plausible explanation should be those deleted ones were reported with evidence or the mod used a tool to check all the threads

Multiple reports from different users about the different post within the same timeframe is very unlikely imo.

Maybe a global mod from one of those languages literally read and took care of all of them after discovering that the one in his language was not organically translated; it's a simple logic; if one of the translations was translated using an AI tool, one could easily assume that the others were also translated using AI.

If the one in Dutch was translated by the same agency and reported as bad, there's a significant possibility that the others are also bad.

[KingsDen]

Can you give us an idea what the issue is with all the above-mentioned threads?


Thank you.

I am glad to see Best_change write here again. I have developed this bond with the green colour as the memories are still fresh.
As others have advised, it could be as a result of poor translation just like the Dutch case. You can reach out to good translators to make a real translation for your big brand in the forum.

[Upgrade00]

Maybe a global mod from one of those languages literally read and took care of all of them after discovering that the one in his language was not organically translated; it's a simple logic; if one of the translations was translated using an AI tool, one could easily assume that the others were also translated using AI.

Firstly, I don't think mods will act on conjecture, expecting that because one was not originally translated others weren't too.

Secondly, not all their translated posts were deleted, only the ones which was stated in the op, so that invalidates that logic. In the end all of these speculations don't matter without the actual mod that took the action chiming in.

[dkbit98]

I only skimmed over their ANN when they published it in our local (Croatian) board so I can't be 100% sure, but from what I remember, it looked to me like it was translated by a native Croatian speaker.

Whoever reported it in our local board probably was too eager.    

I saw that topic also and it looked fine to me, I thought one of our local members probably translated it, but I was not sure.
I didn't report it myself, but I don't know if anyone else did it, or it was just a moderator tooking the initiative and deleted topics from all local boards.
For me there was no problem with that post, and everyone can check that in archive:
https://ninjastic.space/topic/5520790

[Josefjix]

Maybe a global mod from one of those languages literally read and took care of all of them after discovering that the one in his language was not organically translated; it's a simple logic; if one of the translations was translated using an AI tool, one could easily assume that the others were also translated using AI.

Firstly, I don't think mods will act on conjecture, expecting that because one was not originally translated others weren't too.

Secondly, not all their translated posts were deleted, only the ones which was stated in the op, so that invalidates that logic. In the end all of these speculations don't matter without the actual mod that took the action chiming in.

The question is, how many global mods have publicly admitted to making certain decisions, aside from hilariousandco? There is a problem somewhere, and bestchange should take the lost and hire an active native speaker from those languages to avoid a similar occurrence in the future.

Reposting same ANN will result to another deletion.

[JollyGood]

I do find it strange that the OP is complaining of five threads being removed and asking for the reasons yet thus far there has been no concrete reason provided that can bring closure. If it was simply a matter of low quality translations then I guess the solution could be what you have suggested but the OP should have been told the reason when it happened.

Hire aobt next time if you want the most bang for your buck.

[Rikafip]

I saw that topic also and it looked fine to me, I thought one of our local members probably translated it, but I was not sure.

My thought exactly.

For me there was no problem with that post, and everyone can check that in archive:
https://ninjastic.space/topic/5520790

Ah yes, I forgot to check the archive, thnx. Anyway, my initial assessment was correct, this looks fine to me and I see no reason for deletion.

Reposting same ANN will result to another deletion.

Why? Mods are human and they make mistakes like everyone else. In at least one case (the Croatian local board), they obviously made one.

[lovesmayfamilis]

For such topics to be removed for incorrect translation, the reports had to be submitted directly by the owners of the boards where these topics were. But we see two people from Croatia who agree with the translation, and it does not cause them any problems. The same can be learned from users of other local boards. If the reason is not in the translation, then maybe the person who sent such reports formulated the explanation incorrectly, and the moderator agreed with him. This is advertising, and the service that is advertised has earned trust with its many years of experience not only on this forum but also around the world.

[Smartvirus]

From the comment of a global mod above, it's possible there were no reports. Could have been a direct action by a mod based on their assessment of those posts.

That’s something to think about eventually, don’t know what’s like on the global mods dashboard but, from the comment, someone acted out of impulse and don’t know how this might be a coincidence as it happens across a few local boards, perhaps not all at the same time but enough to raise some concerns for a project that has sticked around for a long time to gain wide recognition and reputation.

With the former been as a result of bad translation, I think that was the whistle blower that called for attention on other local boards which indeed result on the actions on the threads.
I would agree with the notion that, local people or native speakers do translate them threads, just as it’s done for Fillippone.

[Cricktor]

There's rule #27 of Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ

27. Using automated translation tools to post translated content in Local boards is not allowed.

But as mentioned by two users, violating this rules didn't seem to apply for the Croation translation. If the Dutch translation was really bad then I'd assume the deletion there could've been caused by obvious breaking of above rule #27.

The more a reason to have AOBT do the translations for important stuff as they likely have native speakers to do it.

If moderators delete such threads I would expect from them to have the decency to explain the deletion reasons.

[JollyGood]

This complicates things even more if some Croatian members have stated the translations are of a good standard. The whole matter would have been resolved if the OP was informed of the reason, that way they could have at least contested the claim/reason had they disagreed with the moderator that removed it (or at least had a chance to modify the words (if that was what would have sufficed).

For such topics to be removed for incorrect translation, the reports had to be submitted directly by the owners of the boards where these topics were. But we see two people from Croatia who agree with the translation, and it does not cause them any problems. The same can be learned from users of other local boards. If the reason is not in the translation, then maybe the person who sent such reports formulated the explanation incorrectly, and the moderator agreed with him. This is advertising, and the service that is advertised has earned trust with its many years of experience not only on this forum but also around the world.

[Upgrade00]

The question is, how many global mods have publicly admitted to making certain decisions, aside from hilariousandco?

mprep has on a couple of occasions. They both are the most active global moderators I see around. I believe we have just 3 in total on the forum.

There is a problem somewhere, and bestchange should take the lost and hire an active native speaker from those languages to avoid a similar occurrence in the future.

Reposting same ANN will result to another deletion.

I already gave my advice to Best_Change. Trying to know exactly what went wrong is the best approach as there is no confirmation that the translations were made by non natives, but they can have them reviewed just to be extra certain.

[Josefjix]

For such topics to be removed for incorrect translation, the reports had to be submitted directly by the owners of the boards where these topics were. But we see two people from Croatia who agree with the translation, and it does not cause them any problems. The same can be learned from users of other local boards. If the reason is not in the translation, then maybe the person who sent such reports formulated the explanation incorrectly, and the moderator agreed with him. This is advertising, and the service that is advertised has earned trust with its many years of experience not only on this forum but also around the world.

The global mod has already stated that no reports were made; from what I understand, the global mod sees all reports on both the local and English boards (both handled and unhandled), so it simply means that no one reported those threads; it was simply an action taken by one of those global mods or patrollers without anyone's assistance.

If native speakers from other languages can come forward and confirm that the threads in their native language were organically translated, as members of the Croatia board have done, it will shed additional light on the matter.

[Rikafip]

For such topics to be removed for incorrect translation, the reports had to be submitted directly by the owners of the boards where these topics were. But we see two people from Croatia who agree with the translation, and it does not cause them any problems. The same can be learned from users of other local boards. If the reason is not in the translation, then maybe the person who sent such reports formulated the explanation incorrectly, and the moderator agreed with him.

hilariousandco said that he can't see any reports being made about this, which then leaves us to one of the mods who has the right to do it, doing it by himself. Some transparency about this would be nice.

it was simply an action taken by one of those global mods or patrollers without anyone's assistance.

As far as I know, patrollers can only act on posts written by Newbies, so we can discard that theory.

[alani123]

The translation I saw on our local board wasn't bad. It wasn't perfect but the agency that took care of it obviously did more than just Google translate or DeepL.

It was still deleted, even though I didn't report it. Someone else probably did. The Greek board is kinda dead. I follow it for every post and get a notification for everything, there aren't that many posts at all. So I'd say someone probably doing the same also reported it and because there's no local moderator they took the report too seriously and they didn't know Greek at all do they just followed it blindly.

A solution maybe could be to have a local reputable member make your posts so they don't get deleted.

[Josefjix]

it was simply an action taken by one of those global mods or patrollers without anyone's assistance.

As far as I know, patrollers can only act on posts written by Newbies, so we can discard that theory.

Fair. I had no idea they only acted on newbie posts; I always assumed they had the same power as the global mod except to ban and unban users.

The translation I saw on our local board wasn't bad. It wasn't perfect but the agency that took care of it obviously did more than just Google translate or DeepL.

Tells alot about the source of those translations, the mod who took care of it could be right after all.

[LoyceV]

If the Dutch translation was really bad then I'd assume the deletion there could've been caused by obvious breaking of above rule #27.

It was really bad:

it is not clear to us was the suspicious in using machine translation was the reason for our Dutch topic to be taken off.  Could anyone please advise?

It's the reason I reported it. I assume the Mod agreed with me. If you paid for these translations, it doesn't sound like natural Dutch.

"Als u uw tijd belangrijk vindt, moet u weten hoelang het duurt om een geldwisselaar met acceptabele wisselkoersen te kiezen. Wij bieden u aan dat te vergeten en uw tijd aan iets leuks te besteden"

I would have removed it as well (not that I can, but just saying in general). Nobody would willingly write "geautomatiseerde verwerkingsprincipe is dat de geldwisselaar werkt volgens voorgedefinieerde sjablonen".

Can you give some insight as to why our threads were removed from Japanese.  Hebrew, Croatian, Greek and Swedish section?

If the agency you hired used shitty machine translation on Dutch, chances are they did the same for other languages.

[SamReomo]

If the agency you hired used shitty machine translation on Dutch, chances are they did the same for other languages.

I fully agree with LoyceV, and I also think that the local board threads were removed only due to poor translation and nothing else. I also suggest Best Change to hire someone reputable who could rewrite those threads once again but in human tone not by using any AI or machine translation tools.

[theymos]

What we're talking about here is taking the same announcement and translating it into 16 different languages/topics. Local moderators need to decide on a case-by-case basis whether this kind of pure translation is actually worthwhile in their own local sections. It'd be totally reasonable for a local moderator to delete any of these topics due to being a poor translation, or even just because this sort of translation activity is simply more noise than signal in that local section.

The 4 topics deleted in this case were in low-volume language sections that don't have their own moderators, so Global Moderators who can't actually speak the language have jurisdiction. Given that, it's reasonable to assume that they're poor translations and/or non-additive. I'm not inclined to restore them.

[NotATether]

Talking about Theymos, that dude is fucking busy out there man! I don't think he would have that time responding to them knowing too well that he has people under him who can fixed up this minor issues. As I believe any deleted post can be restored by mod/admin without mentioning theymos himself. I will go with your suggestions  at least to contact those local moderators, it's a nice idea.

Less I forget.. refer that I meant is to post on those locals through someone over there, but your suggestion counters all as it's the best.

Posts are usually deleted by moderators and not by admins. In the case of the local boards it is usually by the local board moderator if any, or a global mod.

it was simply an action taken by one of those global mods or patrollers without anyone's assistance.

As far as I know, patrollers can only act on posts written by Newbies, so we can discard that theory.

What do you mean by patrollers? Are these human positions, or are they bots which have an API to read and report newbie posts (like Mitchell's spambot)? And when did they start getting used?