Thinking of buying BTC on the London Stcok Exchange

[Goldson]

So on an investment side of things (and not day to day spending)

I see hat the LSE now sell BTC on there exchange in the following tickers

Code   Instrument name   Price
ABTC   21SHARES BITCOIN ETP   28.37 GBP
AETH   21SHARES ETHEREUM STAKING ETP   34.24 GBP
BTCU   21SHARES BITCOIN ETP   36.05 USD
CBTC   21SHARES BITCOIN CORE ETP   20.06 GBP

Has anyone ever done it like this and used a stock exchange to buy there from

How safe is it?
How dose the price differ from BTC its self?
What commision do they charge?
And when you purchase this way, do you actully own BTC or is it a futures market?

Thanks

[Darker45]

Please take my reply with a pinch of salt as I've never experienced buying any Bitcoin product on stock exchanges.

Anyway, in terms of safety, it's safe in a way because you're doing it on a highly regulated and compliant platform, but unsafe in a way because you don't actually own any real Bitcoin, only a kind of ETP. So, you aren't actually in control of your Bitcoin.

As to the price, I guess the crypto market and the stock market more or less mirror each other's Bitcoin price, but you'll probably spend more on fees and commissions when buying on the stock market.

By the way, are individuals or the retail market allowed to buy Bitcoin on LSE? Last I heard only professionals are allowed to do so.

[kotajikikox]

How safe is it?

It would really depend on where you will buy the "bitcoin" from but you need to remember that you do not actually own the bitcoin you will buy but instead just a representative or a reflection of the real bitcoin. The "bitcoin" you will buy is regulated by an authority and therefore you do not actually have full access nor control over it which is to me not safe since I would want to be the one to hold my actual bitcoin.

How dose the price differ from BTC its self?
What commision do they charge?

Each market has some differences due to real time tracking errors. It is possible that the price in one market appears a few dollars short or vice versa. But with stock exchanges there is usually the broker fee you have to consider. I am pretty sure it differs per each one so you are going to need to choose the best one.

May I ask why buy in stock exchange though??? Why not just buy in a crypto exchange if you really want a centralized authority holding your coin

[OcTradism]

How safe is it?

It's not safe!

It would really depend on where you will buy the "bitcoin" from but you need to remember that you do not actually own the bitcoin you will buy but instead just a representative or a reflection of the real bitcoin. The "bitcoin" you will buy is regulated by an authority and therefore you do not actually have full access nor control over it which is to me not safe since I would want to be the one to hold my actual bitcoin.

If you want to buy bitcoin, let's buy it on a Bitcoin exchange or cryptocurrency exchange. Like imagine of a demand for buying stocks on a Bitcoin or cryptocurrency exchange, see something wrong here?

Buying shares of Bitcoin Spot ETF is risky because these shares have to be backed equivalently by bitcoin. You have to trust the ETF share issuers and their custodians like Coinbase. If anything is shady, wrong with either the issuer or the custodian, you won't be able to claim your bitcoin from ETF shares.

May I ask why buy in stock exchange though??? Why not just buy in a crypto exchange if you really want a centralized authority holding your coin

I agree with you on this.

Want stocks? Buy them on stock exchanges.
Want Bitcoin? As said, buy it on either Bitcoin or cryptocurrency exchange, which can be either CEX or DEX.

Bitcoin Q&A: Not your Keys, Not your Coins

[retreat]

It's not Bitcoin, it's just an ETP. You need to differentiate between Bitcoin and ETP. Personally, I wouldn't buy an ETP like that, because you'll only get shares that represent the price of Bitcoin. It's much better to buy Bitcoin and keep it in your wallet - you can control it completely and sell it whenever you want. Always remember "Not your keys, not your coin"

[joniboini]

I checked OP post history and it seems like he had some terrible experiences with exchanges, at least from his perspective. That's probably why he wants to stick with what usually works for him, in this case stock exchange. But as others have mentioned, you're not buying Bitcoin with these products. If your goal is to own Bitcoin (I assume so looking at his post history) and if you can't find a good exchange to work with, you can try P2P. It will probably be a bit expensive and needs some trial and error, but you'll get your Bitcoin in the end.

Anyway, other than Coinbase, what other exchanges have you tried OP?

[franky1]

buying shares is not buying bitcoin. its investing in corporations shares where the corp assesses collateral of a trust the corporation holds (as a secondary entity's valuation)
meaning the shares have no actual ownership rights nor voting rights over the btc, as the btc is held in a secondary entity(trust)
not the share holders claim of the main corp

the advantage people would get from this is not bitcoin ownership, but being able to buy shares that are exposed to a peg rate of the bitcoin market price, where they get to buy these pegged rate shares at a tax efficient method if done right via pre-tax deposit from their salary(employee pension plans, etc)

some people can set up their own self invested pension plans(sipps) and ISA's to then invest tax efficiently, which also when they finally withdraw when meeting the investment plans terms can avoid cap gains tax when withdrawing

[Goldson]

Anyway, in terms of safety, it's safe in a way because you're doing it on a highly regulated and compliant platform, but unsafe in a way because you don't actually own any real Bitcoin, only a kind of ETP. So, you aren't actually in control of your Bitcoin.

Do you think the stock broker owns any bit coin though? meaning they own the bitcoin and you dont they just owe it to you like banks and fiat currency. Or is it just a futures market thing where there is no actual Bit Coin in there?

May I ask why buy in stock exchange though??? Why not just buy in a crypto exchange if you really want a centralized authority holding your coin

Because the bitcoin exchanges are all scam artists!

Anyway, other than Coinbase, what other exchanges have you tried OP?

I cant remember; but I googled them and that rates where all something like 1-4% an exchange

buying shares is not buying bitcoin. its investing in corporations shares where the corp assesses collateral of a trust the corporation holds (as a secondary entity's valuation)
meaning the shares have no actual ownership rights nor voting rights over the btc, as the btc is held in a secondary entity(trust)
not the share holders claim of the main corp

I remember this disscusion on gold and silver ETFs a few times, and it was "can you take out or have delivered the gold and silver from the vault". I guess hear it would be can I have the keys for my shares in btc

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[KingsDen]

Well, the country I come from, there are no much restrictions on bitcoin. I mean anyone can just buy and hold bitcoin even without paying taxes. But I don't know the applicability in other countries why people will see bitcoin and how easy it is to buy and hold and decide to buy something else that claims to be bitcoin, looks like bitcoin or is pegged to bitcoin. We make efforts to buy bitcoin indirectly only when there's a serious hindrance in buying first hand yourself.
Could it be that people do not actually want to take responsibility and be there own banks. They just want another person to be incharge and manage their investment.

[franky1]

buying shares is not buying bitcoin. its investing in corporations shares where the corp assesses collateral of a trust the corporation holds (as a secondary entity's valuation)
meaning the shares have no actual ownership rights nor voting rights over the btc, as the btc is held in a secondary entity(trust)
not the share holders claim of the main corp

I remember this disscusion on gold and silver ETFs a few times, and it was "can you take out or have delivered the gold and silver from the vault". I guess hear it would be can I have the keys for my shares in btc

answer = no you dont get the keys

the advantages are purely tax advantages of holding shares in a sipp/isa/pension
its why governments are trying to heavily tax actual bitcoin because they are lobbied by the banks/trad-fi to try to make etf's more desirable than actual btc

[suzanne5223]

Has anyone ever done it like this and used a stock exchange to buy there from

There's no advantageous reason for me to buy BTC ETF where BTC is treated like Jpeg and nothing will change that.

How safe is it?

It depends on what you mean by safe. The whole investment is controlled by the institutional investors, and the tax aspect of it is always taken care of.

How dose the price differ from BTC its self?

You're buying the company BTC jpeg instead of the real Bitcoin.

What commision do they charge?

The charge commission is based on the institution and the government policy.

And when you purchase this way, do you actully own BTC or is it a futures market?

Both now and in the future. This investment purchase don't make you a real BTC owner, or holder.

[o48o]

-cut-
How safe is it?
-cut-

What do you mean by safety here?

It's not safe in cases you are in some blacklisted person that British government can confiscate your assets from. Or if you are afraid to become this blacklisted person in the future.

It's safer than storing then safety custody, because they have way more security behind them then you could ever provide. But just acknowledge the fact that they aren't holding bitcoin either. So you aren't buying bitcoin, but synthetic representations of bitcoin.

In short, you won't be able to withdraw that bitcoin, you are just able to cash out the value that's gained, or lose the value in case it drops.

[Reatim]

I checked OP post history and it seems like he had some terrible experiences with exchanges, at least from his perspective. That's probably why he wants to stick with what usually works for him, in this case stock exchange.

okay that makes sense but what is it that doesn’t work with exchanges that works for him in stock exchanges? maybe op is just not using the right platforms even as a beginner i quickly learned about exchanges and never encountered any issues so maybe it’s just the specific platform

[Darker45]

Anyway, in terms of safety, it's safe in a way because you're doing it on a highly regulated and compliant platform, but unsafe in a way because you don't actually own any real Bitcoin, only a kind of ETP. So, you aren't actually in control of your Bitcoin.

Do you think the stock broker owns any bit coin though? meaning they own the bitcoin and you dont they just owe it to you like banks and fiat currency. Or is it just a futures market thing where there is no actual Bit Coin in there?

We're talking here specifically of ETN because that's the kind of ETP that's being offered on LSE. I guess the general description of an ETN is that it is unsecured. Meaning to say, it doesn't own the asset it is tracking.

However, there are actually Bitcoin ETNs offered in the market that are fully collateralized. I've read, for example, that VanEck's Bitcoin ETN is 100% fully-backed by actual coins kept in cold storage.

Furthermore, I'm referring you to the Crypto ETN Admission Factsheet, a document which specifically outlines the admission process of crypto ETNs on LSE. It says there that crypto ETNs, to be admitted, should be "physically backed" or that it "has Bitcoin or Ethereum underlying cryptoassets", 90% at least.

Finally, of course, you will have to do some due diligence as to the issuer of the specific ETN you have your eyes on, its fees and whatnot.

[JunaidAzizi]

By the way, are individuals or the retail market allowed to buy Bitcoin on LSE? Last I heard only professionals are allowed to do so.

Yes, you heard right; only professionals are allowed to buy BTC ETP on LES, according to the UK Financial Conduct Authority. The main aim is to protect beginners or less experienced individuals from potential risks, which is why they allow only professional retailers. Here is the link

The OP is getting into the professional lineup, which I think is not suitable for him right now. Firstly, you cannot hold the actual Bitcoin, and secondly, there are higher fees and commissions from brokers, which cause high costs. Instead, he can buy it directly from exchanges and own it in a wallet. Moreover, the price is actual, and he doesn't have to pay any commissions or fees.

[ABCbits]

As to the price, I guess the crypto market and the stock market more or less mirror each other's Bitcoin price, but you'll probably spend more on fees and commissions when buying on the stock market.

More importantly, not all ETF or ETP open 24/7. That means you could miss timing to buy/sell Bitcoin.

May I ask why buy in stock exchange though??? Why not just buy in a crypto exchange if you really want a centralized authority holding your coin

Because the bitcoin exchanges are all scam artists!

Even ones which legally registered and comply with government regulation?

[hd49728]

Even ones which legally registered and comply with government regulation?

They can say that they are good, safe and careful in management of their company treasury and customer fund as well as don't misuse customer funds without agreement of users.

But only God can know what they are actually doing. FTX and Sam Bankman-Fried said everything were good, Terra and Do Kwon told the same, but both FTX and Terra collapsed very quickly.

Trust Bitcoin Spot ETFs if people distrust accuracy and importance of "It is not your private keys, it is not your bitcoin!"

[CryptoBullFLA]

Not your keys, not your coins my friend.

[Mia Chloe]

The concept of buying bitcoins off the network by literally buying some other asset or token that gets pegged to it isn't something I fancy. Whether stocks or pegged and wrapped tokens, I really don't think they are worth it. Yes from the context of your post op you seem very much interested in capital gains and ROI but in my opinion the fiat increase you get when you buy some bitcoins and price pumps actually cuts it already.

Aside from all these , you put your coins on a 50 / 50 risk because you actually don't own those coins fully since you don't have a direct control like a seed phrase or private key to spend them at any instant. To put it into perspective you have to first claim ownership of those coins via some verification on what ever platform that anchors it before you could spend.

[Solosanz]

The OP is getting into the professional lineup, which I think is not suitable for him right now. Firstly, you cannot hold the actual Bitcoin, and secondly, there are higher fees and commissions from brokers, which cause high costs. Instead, he can buy it directly from exchanges and own it in a wallet. Moreover, the price is actual, and he doesn't have to pay any commissions or fees.

It means that people who buy the ETP version is simply dumb because they take more risk and get lower return, it's only make the government and the brokers get rich because they make money from the commission, fees and the price difference.

It's not that hard to protect your Bitcoin alone, just buy a trusted hardware wallet like trezor, then you're fine.