Second chance for mixers?

[JollyGood]

Case, dismissed!

It seems to look that way

As the condition progresses, the harder and more difficult it becomes to be implemented. It therefore means that we should forget about mixers in the forum because the conditions will never happen  

If you chose to lock the thread, maybe it could be reopened at a later time if/when there is momentum heading towards mixers being accepted back in the forum. It seems pointless to continue posting about hypothesis of related to what needs to take place before theymos will allow mixers to be promoted in the forum but if that is what the community want, then why not.

Most famous mixers' names are wordscraped, so it's impossible to mention them.

This is true yet it does not stifle discussion about mixers, it still happens (just as in this thread). Most members probably believe we will never see mixers in the forum but some (including the OP) still hold on to misguided hope.

[test2026]

Even if we say that the current government likes Bitcoin and crypto , they might still dislike mixers because the of the use cases it serves. So , I do not see any valid point here for the forum owner to rethink his decision of mixer ban.

[OgNasty]

Even if we say that the current government likes Bitcoin and crypto , they might still dislike mixers because the of the use cases it serves. So , I do not see any valid point here for the forum owner to rethink his decision of mixer ban.

Even if it was totally legal, I think there's a case to be made for not bringing back the advertising of mixers.  I've personally noticed that scam attempts I have to deal with are WAY DOWN since the removal of mixer signatures.  The personal attacks I've received have also come down a great deal as most of the scum that was posting here only for money has moved on or are not as active here.  I'd say it was probably the first action the Administration has taken in quite some time that yielded a positive outcome for the atmosphere here.

[uchegod-21]

If you chose to lock the thread, maybe the it could be reopened at a later time if/when there is momentum heading towards mixers being accepted back in the forum.

I will likely take this advice because it should be the best for now, but before then, Ognasty's triggered a question, let me ask if before I'll lock the thread.

Even if it was totally legal, I think there's a case to be made for not bringing back the advertising of mixers.  I've personally noticed that scam attempts I have to deal with are WAY DOWN since the removal of mixer signatures. The personal attacks I've received have also come down a great deal as most of the scum that was posting here only for money has moved on or are not as active here.  I'd say it was probably the first action the Administration has taken in quite some time that yielded a positive outcome for the atmosphere here.

Do you or anyone else also think that the frequent attack on the forum then that made the forum to go offline often was because of the presence of the mixers. Who knows if FBI or any other related bodies were monitoring or bombing the forum. After mixers ban, I don't think the forum has gone offline for a minute.

[examplens]

Even if it was totally legal, I think there's a case to be made for not bringing back the advertising of mixers.  I've personally noticed that scam attempts I have to deal with are WAY DOWN since the removal of mixer signatures. The personal attacks I've received have also come down a great deal as most of the scum that was posting here only for money has moved on or are not as active here.  I'd say it was probably the first action the Administration has taken in quite some time that yielded a positive outcome for the atmosphere here.

Do you or anyone else also think that the frequent attack on the forum then that made the forum to go offline often was because of the presence of the mixers. Who knows if FBI or any other related bodies were monitoring or bombing the forum. After mixers ban, I don't think the forum has gone offline for a minute.

That's just a personal impression. Scammers didn't come to the forum to scam OgNasty just because they saw an ad for a mixer.
So for example I could claim, that since Trump was elected, I've been losing a lot more in casinos. I'm sure my losses are because of Trump's wins.

I'm also unsure how much the exclusion of mixer campaigns has reduced spam, as those campaigns primarily featured posters that were generally considered higher quality.

[NotATether]

Even if we say that the current government likes Bitcoin and crypto , they might still dislike mixers because the of the use cases it serves. So , I do not see any valid point here for the forum owner to rethink his decision of mixer ban.

There is another reason for theymos to not rethink this over:

Blender operated from approximately 2018 to 2022. The service was advertised on a popular internet forum as having a “No Logs Policy” and deleting any traces of user transactions. Additionally, in the advertisement, Blender was described as not requiring users to sign up, register, or “provide any kind of detail except the receiving address!” The advertisement asserted that, “[a]s there are no personal details asked for, there’s no way your identity is compromised, or can be linked back to, because as far as blender goes they don’t know who you are.” After Blender shut down, Sinbad began operating a few months later. Like Blender, Sinbad provided users with Bitcoin concealment services. And, on November 27, 2023, Sinbad was taken down through law enforcement action.

<the original quote had domain names which I have redacted.>

[JollyGood]

I'm also unsure how much the exclusion of mixer campaigns has reduced spam, as those campaigns primarily featured posters that were generally considered higher quality.

I am not sure about posters in mixer campaigns being considered generally higher in quality or whether spam has been reduced ever since mixers were banned. What I do know is that it seems to have become easy to spot some accounts that are obviously part of a farm. It might be because the campaign space is limited to participants after the void left by mixers.

There is another reason for theymos to not rethink this over:

Blender operated from approximately 2018 to 2022. The service was advertised on a popular internet forum as having a “No Logs Policy” and deleting any traces of user transactions. ~

If mixers return it might put the forum back in the spotlight for the wrong reasons and for that reason theymos will probably never rethink it.

[Synchronice]

I read in Babo new year thread where theymos dropped a message about bitcoin performance last year. He noted how unbelievably anti-bitcoin the outgoing Biden's administration was - Looking forward, it's definitely a very good thing that the Biden administration will be gone, since they were unbelievably anti-crypto

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

Sergey Lavrov had an interesting interview where he said this thing about the US and new president (I'm not quoting, I'll write what I remember): It doesn't matter who is the President of the USA, Trump or Biden, doesn't matter, their foreign policy remains unchanged.

If Trump's administration becomes very Bitcoin-friendly, it doesn't mean that ban on mixers will be lifted because mixers were massively used for money laundering. Also, every government, doesn't matter how crypto-friendly they are, still want to have influence and control over the currency, so, mixers are definitely their enemy but it's not only the enemy, it's true that the most successful mixers are mostly used by Lazarus and similar groups. I can't talk much about lazarus and I have no idea whether it's a really North Korean group or artificially created by the US but you know, you can't let them be active after everything that happened.

[Etranger]

I think that if mixers return, not all mixers will be allowed to run a signature campaign here. There will be new, stricter selection criteria. But I also think that the return of mixers would have a beneficial effect on the forum, would attract new users and give impetus to the revival of more signature campaigns. I am for their campaigns to return to the forum. But the rules for their participation in this case will be stricter, as fast as I can see.

[leonair]

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

Theymos did not mention any such thing in his post. He implies that 2025 is going to be a good year for Bitcoin and everyone will enjoy good things this time because Trump is supporting Bitcoin and he is very serious about crypto. Trump recently launched his own meme coin in the market, the official Trump coin, the crypto world is now in a frenzy. Then you understand how serious Trump is about crypto. However, this has nothing to do directly with unbanning mixer on this forum

[Beparanf]

If Trump's administration becomes so bitcoin friendly, will theymos consider lifting mixers ban in the forum?

Theymos did not mention any such thing in his post. He implies that 2025 is going to be a good year for Bitcoin and everyone will enjoy good things this time because Trump is supporting Bitcoin and he is very serious about crypto. Trump recently launched his own meme coin in the market, the official Trump coin, the crypto world is now in a frenzy. Then you understand how serious Trump is about crypto. However, this has nothing to do directly with unbanning mixer on this forum

Crypto regulation is not the main problem on why mixer was banned. Mixer banned was implemented after popular mixer such as Chipmixer was seized due to the involvement on money laundering with NK hacker.

Chipmixer was heavily promoted which might involved the forum if they allow services that connected to illegal activities freely advertised here. There’s no way the decision will be reversed just because Trump is pro Bitcoin since the issue here is not Bitcoin rather the use of mixer on money laundering although mixer in general is not bad.

[Etranger]

Crypto regulation is not the main problem on why mixer was banned. Mixer banned was implemented after popular mixer such as Chipmixer was seized due to the involvement on money laundering with NK hacker.

Chipmixer was heavily promoted which might involved the forum if they allow services that connected to illegal activities freely advertised here. There’s no way the decision will be reversed just because Trump is pro Bitcoin since the issue here is not Bitcoin rather the use of mixer on money laundering although mixer in general is not bad.

I understand the idea that the forum does not want to become a platform for advertising suspicious services that are engaged in scams. But banning absolutely all mixers on the basis that some of them were engaged in such illegal activities is very unfair to those services that do not do this. Some casinos also deceive their users, do not allow them to withdraw winnings and much more. But they are allowed to advertise on the forum. That is, the logic here is quite ambivalent, in my opinion.

[pakhitheboss]

I understand the idea that the forum does not want to become a platform for advertising suspicious services that are engaged in scams. But banning absolutely all mixers on the basis that some of them were engaged in such illegal activities is very unfair to those services that do not do this. Some casinos also deceive their users, do not allow them to withdraw winnings and much more. But they are allowed to advertise on the forum. That is, the logic here is quite ambivalent, in my opinion.

I do not understand why you would compare a casino to a Bitcoin mixer. An online casino negatively impacts an individual's finances and primarily benefits the government through taxes. In contrast, a Bitcoin mixer can potentially threaten the internal security of the government. While I acknowledge that fiat currency has been used in similar ways for a long time, it can be traced, whereas the outcomes of a mixer are much harder to track. I doubt that the new administration will accept mixers, as they pose various risks to the U.S. government. Additionally, I believe that Theymos is unlikely to allow these mixers to operate or advertise on the forum. It's important to remember that Chipmixer has a problematic history, and those who participated in its signature campaign are either hiding or using alternate accounts to remain active here.

[Beparanf]

Crypto regulation is not the main problem on why mixer was banned. Mixer banned was implemented after popular mixer such as Chipmixer was seized due to the involvement on money laundering with NK hacker.

Chipmixer was heavily promoted which might involved the forum if they allow services that connected to illegal activities freely advertised here. There’s no way the decision will be reversed just because Trump is pro Bitcoin since the issue here is not Bitcoin rather the use of mixer on money laundering although mixer in general is not bad.

I understand the idea that the forum does not want to become a platform for advertising suspicious services that are engaged in scams. But banning absolutely all mixers on the basis that some of them were engaged in such illegal activities is very unfair to those services that do not do this. Some casinos also deceive their users, do not allow them to withdraw winnings and much more. But they are allowed to advertise on the forum. That is, the logic here is quite ambivalent, in my opinion.

It’s a safety precaution since there’s most of this large scale money laundering is always happening on mixers while casino is openly countering it with KYC. Mixers promotes privacy which is why they don’t have any means to comply with the law.

You can consider those mixers that operates properly as collateral damage since they don’t have any control who will use their mixer. This their main issue which they can’t resolve unless they will start to apply KYC on each user to track the culprit launderer easily and help authorities.

[Sandra_hakeem]

What I do know is that it seems to have become easy to spot some accounts that are obviously part of a farm. It might be because the campaign space is limited to participants after the void left by mixers.

I mean, it sure did at the brink of the whole crisis, but as we all have it, I'm getting notified every now and then about new campaigns on the service board-- opportunities like reviews and the excesses have made room for them. Sometimes, I'll just decide to look through the applications and I'm like,...... there you go!!!!!!!

The personal attacks I've received have also come down a great deal as most of the scum that was posting here only for money has moved on or are not as active here.  I'd say it was probably the first action the Administration has taken in quite some time that yielded a positive outcome for the atmosphere here.

Don't these guys ever quit?! Well In all, the mixer was a good traffic collector... I ain't seen heaps of threads upon threads to deal with since then. Sometimes you come on Meta, barely nothing to discuss about..

[_act_]

For the mixer policy to be reversed, the legal environment would have to improve a lot. I think that one of these would have to happen:
 - Some mixers win their court cases.
 - Congress passes laws which explicitly protect mixers.
 - The administration ends up being extremely pro-privacy, better than 99% of politicians in office.

The government are going for mixers with obvious and hard to deny evidence. They are linked to fraud directly. I indirectly see this as mixers will not be allowed on this forum. I see mixers as something like a weapon like knives which is very beneficial for people generally but which can also be used by killers and bad people to kill someone. But the way it is, the United States government will not see mixers as something good as they are not thinking of the good side but only of the bad sides with evidences.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

For the mixer policy to be reversed, the legal environment would have to improve a lot. I think that one of these would have to happen:
 - Some mixers win their court cases.
 - Congress passes laws which explicitly protect mixers.
 - The administration ends up being extremely pro-privacy, better than 99% of politicians in office.

The government are going for mixers with obvious and hard to deny evidence. They are linked to fraud directly. I indirectly see this as mixers will not be allowed on this forum. I see mixers as something like a weapon like knives which is very beneficial for people generally but which can also be used by killers and bad people to kill someone. But the way it is, the United States government will not see mixers as something good as they are not thinking of the good side but only of the bad sides with evidences.

I think we have to look at this on a general approach because our leaders cannot be always right in every of their decisions, we have our individual rights which we should be allowed to go for what we want and take responsibility for ourselves, if we are talking of scam, financial atrocities, are they not happening with the traditional fiat currencies, but only because the governments are the ones in control of the failed financial system, the errors and fraud in fiat could not be pronounced loudly as expected the same way they are making bitcoin be as if its the only one to ever exist having scammers, i want to believe that of fiat is even more worse, but the issue we have are the governments and this is because they cant regulate mixers, the moment they achieved it regulation then mixers ceased to be regarded for privacy.

[DaNNy001]

For the mixer policy to be reversed, the legal environment would have to improve a lot. I think that one of these would have to happen:
 - Some mixers win their court cases.
 - Congress passes laws which explicitly protect mixers.
 - The administration ends up being extremely pro-privacy, better than 99% of politicians in office.

The government are going for mixers with obvious and hard to deny evidence. They are linked to fraud directly. I indirectly see this as mixers will not be allowed on this forum. I see mixers as something like a weapon like knives which is very beneficial for people generally but which can also be used by killers and bad people to kill someone. But the way it is, the United States government will not see mixers as something good as they are not thinking of the good side but only of the bad sides with evidences.

It's the government for you, once something is out of their reach to see beyond and control it they find a way to shut it down and mixes are the direct ideal of such base of the privacy and behind the scenes control that enable it to be use actively for illegal means. So mixers being reinstated is definitely gonna be a wild dream and besides even the new government with Donald trump's first impression, I don't think it's safe to believe in all he said about Bitcoin during campaign

[BenCodie]

If this forum does allow mixers again then a problem needs to be addressed:

How do we stop mixers coming to the forum, running large budget signature campaigns and running off with the loot when the reserve becomes large enough?

I don't think the forum should allow mixers until there is some form of policy on how these mixers work. We need decentralized solutions, not centralized ones, if the forum wants to succeed with mixers and if users are to be safe. Bitcoin has evolved a lot since the ban, creating decentralized mixers can work, so I would hope that the community rally together to build a decentralized framework in comparison to relying on anonymous individuals who abuse the forum and its people.

[Despairo]

I don't think the forum should allow mixers until there is some form of policy on how these mixers work. We need decentralized solutions, not centralized ones, if the forum wants to succeed with mixers and if users are to be safe. Bitcoin has evolved a lot since the ban, creating decentralized mixers can work, so I would hope that the community rally together to build a decentralized framework in comparison to relying on anonymous individuals who abuse the forum and its people.

If we're waiting for the policy, it will high likely illegal because most people see mixer is bad instead of good. The government might make it legal, but the mixer will act like a honeypot because they're working with the government.

The decentralized solutions to increase privacy in Bitcoin is called CoinJoin and the forum still allow that, although it's not really effective to hide your trace compared to mixer.