Tornado cash santion has been lifted

[_act_]

What does this have for the possibility of allowing mixers campaign on this forum again?

Tornado cash is a decentralized mixer which should be known as coinjoin. But I noticed theymos is calling centralized mixers as mixers while calling decentralized mixers as coinjoin when he banned centralized mixers signature campaign on this forum.

Theymos posted this:

For the mixer policy to be reversed, the legal environment would have to improve a lot. I think that one of these would have to happen:
 -  Some mixers win their court cases.
 - Congress passes laws which explicitly protect mixers.
 - The administration ends up being extremely pro-privacy, better than 99% of politicians in office.

The question I want to ask is that are decentralized mixers among. I mean in the court case. Tornado cash is not for bitcoin but at least it is still a mixer but decentralized. Or theymos is referring to only centralized mixers?

[tbct_mt2]

What does this have for the possibility of allowing mixers campaign on this forum again?

Tornado cash is a decentralized mixer which should be known as coinjoin. But I noticed theymos is calling centralized mixers as mixers while calling decentralized mixers as coinjoin when he banned centralized mixers signature campaign on this forum.

It is about Tornado Cash, and I agree that it is a good start but it takes more time and more mixer cases to move to a new era with legality for mixers.

If it comes to that time, theymos will lift his ban on mixer advertisement in Bitcoin forum. We won't have it now or too soon, in my opinion, but Tornado Cash ban lift actually lits the light up and set up a good precedent for mixer/ tumbler industry.

https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2024/11/26/tornado-cash-sanctions-overturned-by-u-s-appeals-court
https://assets.ctfassets.net/c5bd0wqjc7v0/70EasapqSxH1kLInf3IQrd/1a1ce21cdc6bc903921f45018cce3821/Tornado_Cash.pdf

[Faisal2202]

What does this have for the possibility of allowing mixers campaign on this forum again?

Tornado cash is a decentralized mixer which should be known as coinjoin. But I noticed theymos is calling centralized mixers as mixers while calling decentralized mixers as coinjoin when he banned centralized mixers signature campaign on this forum.

Theymos posted this:

For the mixer policy to be reversed, the legal environment would have to improve a lot. I think that one of these would have to happen:
 -  Some mixers win their court cases.
 - Congress passes laws which explicitly protect mixers.
 - The administration ends up being extremely pro-privacy, better than 99% of politicians in office.

The question I want to ask is that are decentralized mixers among. I mean in the court case. Tornado cash is not for bitcoin but at least it is still a mixer but decentralized. Or theymos is referring to only centralized mixers?

Thanks for creating a thread on this, and mentioning theymos latest update on this as well, I was totally unaware of the post made by Theymos I guess I have to put a tracker on him too hehe, speaking of tornado lawsuit it is a good news I was not aware of it too, although I was expecting Trump will ease things for mixers and privacy-related tools. But did have idea that they will overturn Tornado case.

This is a big news for mixer and Theymos saw it coming as he already knew some mixer win their cases too accurate did he have any btc predictions as well hehe. I also had the same question since Trump won, but waiting for the updates, glady something came up, I think it is possible for mixtures and as theymos said before making some move, he will wait for 1 year more to see how things move. I hope things would go smooth.

[JollyGood]

I was unaware of what was happening to Tornado Cash until I read the OP. This is an interesting read about what happened to the TORN price after the news about the court overruling the original sanctions against Tornado Cash: TORN price soars 170% after court overturned Tornado Cash sanctions

Now the discussion will turn to what it could mean for those offering privacy services as well as for those using the services.

[Free Market Capitalist]

What does this have for the possibility of allowing mixers campaign on this forum again?

I guess it does win some point but theymos already made it clear that he is not going to be in any hurry and he is going to want to have a very clear and favorable legislative picture to reverse his decision. If we add that he does not usually implement the changes in the forum in a hurry, but meditating them a lot, in the best case this is the first block of the building that has to be erected for him to reverse the decision.

[KingsDen]

What does this have for the possibility of allowing mixers campaign on this forum again?

Tornado cash is a decentralized mixer which should be known as coinjoin. But I noticed theymos is calling centralized mixers as mixers while calling decentralized mixers as coinjoin when he banned centralized mixers signature campaign on this forum.

Theymos posted this:

-  Some mixers win their court cases.
 - Congress passes laws which explicitly protect mixers.
 - The administration ends up being extremely pro-privacy, better than 99% of politicians in office.

If you understand theymos conditions very well, you will not be expecting mixer ban lift any soon.

Even if the first condition is met, do you think that the second condition would be met? We know it's near impossible for Congress to pass laws explicitly protecting mixers.

How about the last condition. If theymos was not being sarcastic, it's impossible for a government to be overly pro-privacy, ie better than 99% of politicians in office LOL

[Pablo-wood]

The question I want to ask is that are decentralized mixers among. I mean in the court case. Tornado cash is not for bitcoin but at least it is still a mixer but decentralized. Or theymos is referring to only centralized mixers?

The sanction was on mixers generally if I am not mistaken but more focus on Decentralised Mixers . In the link provided Tornado cash was sanctioned on August 8, 2022 by the US Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control but as at yesterday being the January 21, 2025 the federal court for the western district of Texas reversed the sanctions imposed by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) against Tornado Cash.

 In the case of theymos mixers from what I read was used for both centralised and decentralised

[_act_]

I was unaware of what was happening to Tornado Cash until I read the OP. This is an interesting read about what happened to the TORN price after the news about the court overruling the original sanctions against Tornado Cash: TORN price soars 170% after court overturned Tornado Cash sanctions

Torn price increase more than 300% to almost 400%. The price increased from $7.6 to $27.4 before it fell to $15.

The sanction was on mixers generally if I am not mistaken but more focus on Decentralised Mixers . In the link provided Tornado cash was sanctioned on August 8, 2022 by the US Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control but as at yesterday being the January 21, 2025 the federal court for the western district of Texas reversed the sanctions imposed by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) against Tornado Cash.

 In the case of theymos mixers from what I read was used for both centralised and decentralised

Theymos allows Coinjoin sites signature campaign. I could remember that Wasabi signature campaign was allowed at the time. It was Wasabi that later left and not a ban.

[Churchillvv]

One mixer winning a court case can't possibly make Theymos change his mind.
At least 80% wins could possibly begin to trouble his mind to make changes but at this point what's the essence of the bother around mixers coming back, even though it's beneficial to us all why not wait for a better time than so much troubling wanting mixers back.

We are just in the beginning of the administration so let's keep hope alive (for those really interested in mixers, because I don't really know it's benefits as I was just a newbie with zero knowledge of it before it got banned)

[Zoomic]

One mixer winning a court case can't possibly make Theymos change his mind.
At least 80% wins could possibly begin to trouble his mind to make changes

It's not all about theymos changing his mind, but it is a wine for the industry. Also, 80% cannot be achieved without achieving 1% first, even though I consider Tornado win as more than 20%

but at this point what's the essence of the bother around mixers coming back, even though it's beneficial to us all why not wait for a better time than so much troubling wanting mixers back.

When mixers were banned, there was so much fear that the next move could be casino ban and then others follow. So, a fight against mixers is indirectly a fight against bitcoin.

We are just in the beginning of the administration so let's keep hope alive (for those really interested in mixers, because I don't really know it's benefits as I was just a newbie with zero knowledge of it before it got banned)

Ok, you have to go understand the place of privacy in the bitcoin network, by then you will appreciate mixers.

[ABCbits]

The question I want to ask is that are decentralized mixers among. I mean in the court case. Tornado cash is not for bitcoin but at least it is still a mixer but decentralized. Or theymos is referring to only centralized mixers?

When in doubt, just re-read theymos definition of mixer. So if i understand how Tornado Cash works, then it doesn't fulfill requirements number 2.

--snip--
 2. It is possible for the mixer to steal property passing through it. Assume that the sender does everything as correctly as possible. Also assume that no miners/verifiers on the base-layer cryptocurrency are evil. But assume that every other actor involved is evil (everyone able to vote in a DAO, every coordination server, every counterparty, every member of a multisig, etc.). Ignore short-term software bugs which are expected to be quickly fixed.
--snip--

[_act_]

Some people keep posting rubbish like theymos can not lift the ban anytime soon because of Tornado Cash sanction that was lifted but I was not asking them such question.

The question I want to ask is that are decentralized mixers among. I mean in the court case. Tornado cash is not for bitcoin but at least it is still a mixer but decentralized. Or theymos is referring to only centralized mixers?

When in doubt, just re-read theymos definition of mixer. So if i understand how Tornado Cash works, then it doesn't fulfill requirements number 2.

--snip--
 2. It is possible for the mixer to steal property passing through it. Assume that the sender does everything as correctly as possible. Also assume that no miners/verifiers on the base-layer cryptocurrency are evil. But assume that every other actor involved is evil (everyone able to vote in a DAO, every coordination server, every counterparty, every member of a multisig, etc.). Ignore short-term software bugs which are expected to be quickly fixed.
--snip--

Thanks for this good post. How theymos categorize both centralized and decentralized mixers has been the reason I ask a question on this thread if decentralized mixers will also count because theymos differentiated them during the campaign ban. I think those centralized mixers have no legal issues that they are facing right now. Chipmixer, Sinbad and others that have been taken down are beyond coming back and have no legal case to win is what I think.

[JollyGood]

Torn price increase more than 300% to almost 400%. The price increased from $7.6 to $27.4 before it fell to $15.

The price has probably peaked for the short term after the shock decision to remove sanctions. Now at $15 it does look somewhat stable after the pump and dump seems to have ended.

Chipmixer, Sinbad and others that have been taken down are beyond coming back and have no legal case to win is what I think.

Those mixers were charged with money laundering therefore will never have any chance of ever operating again. One problem that cannot really be avoided when it comes to mixers is they are all vulnerable to be used by money launderers rather than just those that want to keep their funds anonymous for legitimate reasons and that could have play a part in what theymos decided.

[Lida93]

but at this point what's the essence of the bother around mixers coming back, even though it's beneficial to us all why not wait for a better time than so much troubling wanting mixers back.

When mixers were banned, there was so much fear that the next move could be casino ban and then others follow. So, a fight against mixers is indirectly a fight against bitcoin.

On my part the fears I had at that period  was about the forum been controversially linked to the promotions of mixers because they could have taking an attack on the forum to indirectly get on bitcoin since the forum serves as one of many major vanguard to the widespread about bitcoin knowledge and it's adoption. But graciously, Theymos was smart enough to quick take a position on mixers with the forum. However we're hoping to see some positive changes with this new administration which has already started with the news about Tornado cash.

We are just in the beginning of the administration so let's keep hope alive (for those really interested in mixers, because I don't really know it's benefits as I was just a newbie with zero knowledge of it before it got banned)

Ok, you have to go understand the place of privacy in the bitcoin network, by then you will appreciate mixers.

@Churchillvv, in same manner you think of anonymity whenever bitcoin is mentioned that's similar way mixers works but with absolutely anonymity that leaves no trace to the origin of funds unlike bitcoin where there's a ledger that can be used to track funds movement. A walk on this link will grant you more insight: What's bitcoin mixer

[Lucius]

Why open a new topic when there is a relatively new one in which this news could have been published? Besides, I don't see why there's so much fascination with bringing mixers back to the forum unless we're looking at everything from a profit perspective.

Mixers has a chance of not being targeted by the authorities only if they change their way of doing business - and that means they start analyzing every transaction that requires a mix, and in that way make it impossible for the stolen coins to be mixed. But if we take into account that it is precisely such transactions that bring them extra profit, then it should be clear to everyone that most mixers will never go in that direction.

[Hagart]

~snipped~
unless we're looking at everything from a profit perspective.

That's the problem, that few users talk about the mixers in any other way, the majority just want them to come back so they can participate in the signature campaigns. If they really supported the technology these mixers use and the uses it can have to ensure some privacy, they would write blogs and articles about them, instead of asking here "when" they could come back.

Even so, and knowing the state of things right now, they believe that Trump is the savior of the internet and the standard bearer of Bitcoin. But the first thing he did was launch two memes to get more millions.