Bitcoin ceased to be the legal tender in El Salvador

[tvbcof]

El Salvador's stance on _transactions_, whatever it may have been, and whether or not it had been enforced, was a matter of policy and had nothing to do with 'legal tender'.

'Legal Tender' relates specifically to 'debts' and how they are reconciled.  More specifically, how the courts must rule when it comes to discharging debts.  If 'legal tender' is _offered_ (whether it is accepted or not), then the court must rule that the debt is discharged.

In the U.S., their legal tender is the USD (a fiat currency controlled by the treasury and the Fed.)  That does not mean that a transaction (which creates a debt in the future) has to be in USD.  Obviously it usually does, but I am free to refuse to sell you something if I do not receive gold or BTC if that is the deal I wish to make.  Again, it's policy+training which makes people confused on this issue.  Wikipedia does an OK job of describing the above in their legal tender entry.

The U.S. describes (and inscribes on their currency) 'for all debts, public and private'.  El Salvador, at the behest of the IMF does not inscribe shit on their currency because what currency they do have (the Colon) is fossilized.  El Salvador uses the USD as legal tender and are consequently at the whim of the US in many ways..  Whatever inflation the USD undergoes is a transfer from USD holders in El Salvador to the pockets of those who run the printing presses.

For some reason it was highly important to the IMF that El Salvador agree, in law, to collect taxes exclusively in United States Dollars.  How odd, eh?

The above makes it so that if El Salvador wants to try to argue that  Bitcoin _is_ 'legal tender' in the country, it is not so for 'all debts public and private', or have their groupies do the deed.  It would probably have higher and longer term value to spend the energy dissecting and understanding what is really going on and sharing their findings.  Maybe it would result in El Salvador feeling like they should again get back to independence from the IMF thugs and sovereignty again someday.  To do otherwise is pretty much doing the propaganda work directly for the Federal Reserve, and I refuse to believe that most of the groupies wish to be doing that.

[Majestic-milf]

**basic common sense investment advise that even normal citizens should remember and listen to, dont throw all your excess income, savings and emergency fund into investments, because when surprises occur you have to either sell investments early or apply for credit(dont throw all eggs into one basket), keep an emergency fund/savings amount to cover financial surprises. so that you dont end up getting into further problems owing someone who puts conditions on you

You have a point here and that's where Bukele got it all wrong; he put all his investment in one basket and in his defense, he'd say he was taking a big risk and that kinda made him trend as the type of person to take risks and that people should learn something from him. Too bad that now he has nothing to fall back on, he has no choice but to run to the IMF. It was as if they knew his plan was destined to fail but were just biding their time.
 Also, I don't think much blame has to go to Nayib's financial advisors because from the way I see it, maybe they tried pointing out the risks of this impulsive act by the president but as usual, he may have ignored simply because he may have had a hunch that he'd cash out big, he chose to ignore.
Well, it's just a matter of watching to see if El Salvador can bounce back after this.

[MusaMohamed]

Also, I don't think much blame has to go to Nayib's financial advisors because from the way I see it, maybe they tried pointing out the risks of this impulsive act by the president but as usual, he may have ignored simply because he may have had a hunch that he'd cash out big, he chose to ignore.
Well, it's just a matter of watching to see if El Salvador can bounce back after this.

As a President of El Salvador, he has done many great things for the nation and citizens, by reducing criminal rate and existence, as well as making Bitcoin legal tender and cryptocurrency adoption in El Salvador, and most importantly, invest money of the nation to Bitcoin.

It helped to improve their national finance, small or big scale, it can be controversial but surely it's beneficial for their national treasury and finance.
Result is shown here with the El Salvador portfolio tracker.
https://nayibtracker.com/

It's no reason to blame anything on his financial advisor, because now it is mass success and benefit.

[stompix]

The amount of copium in this topic is hilarious!
Face reality, Bukele, or should we call him Bukake has played you all for fools, and yous still think this guy is some sort of messiah.

He has lied about:
- the 200MW  magic well
- the Volcano mining
- Bitcoin city
- kicking the IMF...LOL

Remember this shit:
https://x.com/nayibbukele/status/1551984049710923778?lang=gu
He had money to pay all his debt, but suddenly they had to borrow 1.4 billion cause they have the lowest economic growth in Central America and the highest actual deficit.

One messiah down, I'm stocking up popcorn when people will realize how bad Trump is for crypto and this night episode is just the beginning!

[God Of Thunder]

One messiah down, I'm stocking up popcorn when people will realize how bad Trump is for crypto and this night episode is just the beginning!

I believe there are a lot of unspoken things in your mind. This one line is enough for a lot of people but not for everybody. I am an average Joe, and I didn't get it. I will expect some kind of explanation from you because I believe you have some good points about it. I noticed the scam thing Trump and his sons are doing at this moment by launching their meme coin. But I am curious what else you know.

Please give me some hints as to why you think Trump is not good for crypto. If you have time, you can write in detail.

[stompix]

Please give me some hints as to why you think Trump is not good for crypto. If you have time, you can write in detail.

First, he was president for 4 years, and he slapped income tax and tariffs on mining gear, but people forget how bad those were.
He has never delivered his major promises and doesn't care unless he is financially involved
- remember how Mexico was supposed to pay for the wall?
- healthcare reform, lol
- made in America.., just lol!
So now that he doesn't care about being elected again, why should he care about another batch of promises, especially crypto?

The guy is in for the money, he forgot all about bitcoin but has done two rug pulls and scammed morons who believe in him for billions in stupid meme coins. And now he is starting a trading war, which means economic recession, job losses, companies restructuring, and cutting expenses, if you think a recession is good for bitcoin, then look at the markets right now.

Tariffs mean inflation, inflation means higher rates, and when rates are higher money doesn't flow into Bitcoin, we've learned that for two years.
As I said before, we're going to be extremely lucky if we don't go below the 3rd last ATH (2021) with this moron left unchecked in the white house.

[God Of Thunder]

First, he was president for 4 years, and he slapped income tax and tariffs on mining gear, but people forget how bad those were.
He has never delivered his major promises and doesn't care unless he is financially involved
- remember how Mexico was supposed to pay for the wall?
- healthcare reform, lol
- made in America.., just lol!
So now that he doesn't care about being elected again, why should he care about another batch of promises, especially crypto?

People outside of the USA do not have any clue about these mentioned things. I am not from the US, and I am not aware of/don't remember what he did in his last term. Even though these mentioned things have nothing to do with Bitcoin, you are making it a point to explain that since he didn't keep his promises last time, there is no guarantee he will keep his major promises this time. Right? Make sense. But as of now, he has already kept some of his promises, such as freeing Ross.

The guy is in for the money, he forgot all about bitcoin but has done two rug pulls and scammed morons who believe in him for billions in stupid meme coins. And now he is starting a trading war, which means economic recession, job losses, companies restructuring, and cutting expenses, if you think a recession is good for bitcoin, then look at the markets right now.

I have to agree with this. I noticed he is doing well with the meme-coin, but people haven't gotten it yet.

Tariffs mean inflation, inflation means higher rates, and when rates are higher money doesn't flow into Bitcoin, we've learned that for two years. As I said before, we're going to be extremely lucky if we don't go below the 3rd last ATH (2021) with this moron left unchecked in the white house.

Yeah, it doesn't look good at all. But I don't have any idea what I would say in such a situation because I don't know much about the US. But if the US gets affected, the world has to face the consequences.

[davis196]

After just over three years, El Salvador withdrew from Bitcoin the status of legal tender currency in the country president Nayib Bukele pushed the measure and became effective after the Salvadoran Legislative Assembly approved the changes the change takes place in the middle of a complex economic context for the country that is in negotiation with the International Monetary Fund for a loan of US$1.4 billion with a confusing wording
And the question now is: will this impact the value of Bitcoin both instantly and in the long term?

Well, the process of mass BTC adoption in El Salvador was a failure. It is clear at this point, that Bitcoin cannot be mass adopted as a currency. There was no need for BTC to be proclaimed as a legal tender by the government of El Salvador. I'm sure that El Salvador will keep some BTC in their national reserves. Nayib Bukele would probably stay as pro-Bitcoin as he used to be. This news might create some FUD and cause a short-term price Bitcoin drop, but it shouldn't be considered a tragedy. I can assume that Bitcoin didn't save the weak economy of El Salvador. Many noobs were asking this question in the last 3 years. We have the answer.

[viljy]

The guy is in for the money, he forgot all about bitcoin but has done two rug pulls and scammed morons who believe in him for billions in stupid meme coins. And now he is starting a trading war, which means economic recession, job losses, companies restructuring, and cutting expenses, if you think a recession is good for bitcoin, then look at the markets right now.

I think the same as you. In general, we are already seeing the real results of Trump's shocking antics, not words or promises. But of course the most amazing thing was the launch of the meme token, the day before the inauguration. No one before him has ever been able to humiliate the very institution of the presidency so much, lowering the president not only to the level of a clown, but to the level of a mass of crypto scammers. His problem is that he is not a politician. He's just a businessman who fancies himself a politician. Therefore, he understands politics in terms of economics, or even worse, just accounting.

Well, the process of mass BTC adoption in El Salvador was a failure. It is clear at this point, that Bitcoin cannot be mass adopted as a currency. There was no need for BTC to be proclaimed as a legal tender by the government of El Salvador. I'm sure that El Salvador will keep some BTC in their national reserves. Nayib Bukele would probably stay as pro-Bitcoin as he used to be. This news might create some FUD and cause a short-term price Bitcoin drop, but it shouldn't be considered a tragedy. I can assume that Bitcoin didn't save the weak economy of El Salvador. Many noobs were asking this question in the last 3 years. We have the answer.

So it was such a "marketing experiment" from the very beginning, accompanied by various promises. Bitcoin is too volatile to be convenient as money. In addition, it is possible that Nayib Bukele has already realized what awaits bitcoin under Trump and has taken a preventive measure.

[Oluwa-btc]

They're the first country to declare Bitcoin legal tender, and now the first to drop it. --- gosh they're setting world records!

If only they really had a choice... This country needed funding, so they had to play by the rules. But actually, even though Bitcoin is legal in El Salvador, people hardly use it for everyday transactions. It pretty much shows what's really happening so the change is not hard to accept.

Not true mate,check the news and read properly about El Salvador.I don't think so and you really don't have to give conclusions to things like this.El Salvador is currently experiencing a downturn in their economical affairs and financial aspect which requires them to pace out of Bitcoin for a period of time.
Not that they've completely dissociated themselves from adopting Bitcoin.The president Nayib Bukele is an hardworking and consistent personality that's concerned about the growth,peace and progress of his country.

For me,I know so we'll that Bitcoin is going nowhere from El Salvador they just need to retrace,solve and correct some technical issues.

[Lucius]

I've got a question here:  I've been reading Roger Ver's book Hijacking Bitcoin, and on pp.109 he states the following:

For example, when the El Salvador government announced that BTC was going to become an official currency, there was almost no mention of the fact that their government was setting up purely custodial wallets for their citizens--meaning, the government will be able to track and censor transactions made through their app, freeze accounts, or easily confiscate coins if they decide to.

Note: I haven't read through the other, very long thread on El Salvador, nor am I a huge fan of Ver's.  I'm just curious as to whether what he stated in the above quote is the truth, a falsehood, or in some kind of gray zone.  

BTW, that book is pretty interesting from a perspective of bitcoin history even if it is an unvarnished advertisement for BCH.

As far as I know, Chivo wallets are custodial wallets, so there is no untruth stated there. When you think about it, the countries of Central and South America are mostly ruled by regimes that give very little or no freedom to their citizens when it comes to finances. Bukele calls himself the most handsome dictator in the world (or something like that), so it is logical that he wants control even when it comes to Bitcoin.

You may have already read it because I posted it several times on the forum, but if you haven't, it's a very interesting read.

El Salvador Bitcoin: Tether buys itself a country; and why Chivo sucks

The amount of copium in this topic is hilarious!
Face reality, Bukele, or should we call him Bukake has played you all for fools, and yous still think this guy is some sort of messiah.
---
One messiah down, I'm stocking up popcorn when people will realize how bad Trump is for crypto and this night episode is just the beginning!

Telling everyone that they are fools is not really something that makes sense - because if you look at most of my posts on the subject of El Salvador and Bukele, you will not find any kind of delight with everything that happened in that country in the past few years. Likewise, Donald and his clowns will only be good for themselves, just as those before them were only good for themselves. The level of fascination with politicians on a forum where Bitcoin is discussed is personally incomprehensible to me.

[stompix]

Telling everyone that they are fools is not really something that makes sense - because if you look at most of my posts on the subject of El Salvador and Bukele, you will not find any kind of delight with everything that happened in that country in the past few years.

You weren't here licking's Bukele ass and defending his decision on the IMF deal so you're automatically excluded from the list. 

The fool things were obviously meant for all those who still see this guy as anything other than an opportunistic jackal who would probably sell his whole family for votes. Oh, and a special breed is those who actually believed his promises were possible, and I will never get over the fact that morons cheered for the 200MW geothermal well that would be used for bitcoin mining when a thing doesn't exist anywhere in the world and no company is being able to build one.

The level of fascination with politicians on a forum where Bitcoin is discussed is personally incomprehensible to me.

Is good for bitcoin price? It's good! Is his name Hitler? Doesn't matter!
Also, take a look at this:

The president Nayib Bukele is an hardworking and consistent personality that's concerned about the growth,peace and progress of his country.

Been there and have personally met with Bukele or do you know all this from Twitter?
Cause if it's the second one I have a bridge to sell you!

[retreat]

There is no such thing as Bitcoin ceasing to be legal tender in El Salvador, it was just a rule that was adjusted that said merchants were obligated to accept Bitcoin payments, and this was changed to make them eligible for loans from the IMF. El Salvador still fully maintains Bitcoin as legal tender in the country, and remains committed to making it fully accepted in the country. And this rule change will have no impact on the Bitcoin market whatsoever.

[BALIK]

Well, the process of mass BTC adoption in El Salvador was a failure. It is clear at this point, that Bitcoin cannot be mass adopted as a currency. There was no need for BTC to be proclaimed as a legal tender by the government of El Salvador.

It's been 4 years since they recognized bitcoin as legal tender and there is no data or evidence that people are using it as a currency there. And one thing people forget is that bitcoin is not the only currency, USD is still the main currency in El Salvador. So mass bitcoin adoption in El Salvador was never considered a success.

I'm sure that El Salvador will keep some BTC in their national reserves. Nayib Bukele would probably stay as pro-Bitcoin as he used to be.

They even bought another 11BTC yesterday when bitcoin price suddenly dropped and that shows Nayib Bukele never lost faith in bitcoin.

This news might create some FUD and cause a short-term price Bitcoin drop, but it shouldn't be considered a tragedy. I can assume that Bitcoin didn't save the weak economy of El Salvador. Many noobs were asking this question in the last 3 years. We have the answer.

Not many people care about this, I see only a few people like us care about this news. So I don't even think it will have any negative impact on the market.

I have said this many times, bitcoin has never and cannot save the economy of any country including El Salvador but many people do not want to believe that. They never even sell and use any bitcoins, they just buy and buy, how can that save their economy?

[DeathAngel]

In El Salvador, if you want to make something a legal tender, all merchants must accept it as a means of payment. But this was rescinded for bitcoin because of the loan El Salvador wanted from IMF. I saw it absurd but I think El Salvador got no option as they need the loan would be what that caused them to do it.

But it is also important to know that bitcoin is still a means of payment in El Salvador which can still be kind of regarded as legal tender. Just that merchants may decide not to accept it anymore.

IMF is a dinosaur of finance, they can fight against the adoption of Bitcoin but they will fail & they will some day crawl back with their tail between their legs. Bitcoin is going nowhere, they will all have to accept that. Disappointing that El Salvador complied but if they need the loan then there is nothing that can be done. It’s good that merchants can still accept Bitcoin & I’m sure a good amount will still do that.

[Lucius]

IMF is a dinosaur of finance, they can fight against the adoption of Bitcoin but they will fail & they will some day crawl back with their tail between their legs. Bitcoin is going nowhere, they will all have to accept that. Disappointing that El Salvador complied but if they need the loan then there is nothing that can be done. It’s good that merchants can still accept Bitcoin & I’m sure a good amount will still do that.

They're doing well so far, right? I think that many underestimate the power of the IMF and similar financial institutions, because behind them are the interests of the most powerful people in the world (and I'm not talking about the rich like Gates, Musk, Bezos and the like), but those whose wealth has been created for centuries. They are the real rulers of the world, and you will hardly find any information about them and their wealth, which is estimated in trillions of $.

Coincidentally or not, the decision of the most handsome dictator in the world that BTC will no longer be legal tender coincided with a visit to the U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio to El Salvador - of course the main topic was something else, but again the man who already has almost 100 000 people in prison has committed to accepting the worst criminals from the US even with US citizenship.

They both seem really happy, don't they?

[stompix]

They're doing well so far, right? I think that many underestimate the power of the IMF and similar financial institutions, because behind them are the interests of the most powerful people in the world (and I'm not talking about the rich like Gates, Musk, Bezos and the like), but those whose wealth has been created for centuries. They are the real rulers of the world, and you will hardly find any information about them and their wealth, which is estimated in trillions of $.

Neah, it's far easier than that, and not with every conspiracy added on top of that.
The IMF just like the World Bank, offers the lowest interest rates and it's the only one that agrees to take the government's word and promises as collateral, unlike other banks, when banks see you're in deep trouble they don't give out a penny, the IMF which basically runs on other countries funding will give you money because the board has voted so.

And that's the reason why all these deals turn into a catastrophe because they are lending to the people who already have ruined the country and obviously they are not going to pay back and are going to blame you for everything. The IMF is there to act like the last resort pill, it either works or if it doesn't the situation is so bad anyhow that it all would have gone to shit anyhow.

The IMF has become the scapegoat of everyone, fail to recover and implement reforms, blame the IMF and you're good.
Oh, willing to bet that Bukele will do the same and blame the IMF in less than one year? 

Disappointing that El Salvador complied but if they need the loan then there is nothing that can be done.

But Bukele told us that he doesn't need any loan and he has paid all back
https://x.com/nayibbukele/status/1617695406812721156
Oh wait, he was lying as usual.

[hero_the_bossman]

There is no such thing as Bitcoin ceasing to be legal tender in El Salvador, it was just a rule that was adjusted that said merchants were obligated to accept Bitcoin payments, and this was changed to make them eligible for loans from the IMF. El Salvador still fully maintains Bitcoin as legal tender in the country, and remains committed to making it fully accepted in the country. And this rule change will have no impact on the Bitcoin market whatsoever.

Agreed through and through. As it was said by act, the tender was just reskinned so to speak to take the loan.
El Sal does what is best for the country, and we can't blame them - but IMF is like a shark when it hears stuff like that, they would do what they can to track back the progress they already made.

[Synchronice]

IMF is a dinosaur of finance, they can fight against the adoption of Bitcoin but they will fail & they will some day crawl back with their tail between their legs. Bitcoin is going nowhere, they will all have to accept that. Disappointing that El Salvador complied but if they need the loan then there is nothing that can be done. It’s good that merchants can still accept Bitcoin & I’m sure a good amount will still do that.

They're doing well so far, right? I think that many underestimate the power of the IMF and similar financial institutions, because behind them are the interests of the most powerful people in the world (and I'm not talking about the rich like Gates, Musk, Bezos and the like), but those whose wealth has been created for centuries. They are the real rulers of the world, and you will hardly find any information about them and their wealth, which is estimated in trillions of $.

People think that Bill Gates, Bezos and others rule the world but it's really not like that, the real rulers of the world are no celebrities, they work behind the scenes. How do I know? I just think that it can't be the other way, I think that the magic is always done behind the scenes. Putin for example, he often says "we" when he talks, in which, he means, KGB.

but again the man who already has almost 100 000 people in prison has committed to accepting the worst criminals from the US even with US citizenship.

Have you watched CECOT videos? That place looks very clean but oh my god, even spending one day there is a hell but spending few weeks and months there is much worse than hell. This is crazy but there are one of the worst people in that prison. Nayib Bukele is probably one of the best dictator, a true patriot of his country.