The IRS works for us.

[TKeenan]

I understand not all here are Americans, but many will understand one very important principle in American government: The Fed works for the people!!

Don't forget that.  Even Obama (and others in government) say it quite proudly.  The IRS DOES NOT make the rules.  The people make the rules.  The people make the rules - by way of their representative in congress.  Congress writes all laws.  The IRS cannot make a 'law'.  The IRS simple reads the laws the people made and tries to enforce them carefully.  They do this by making 'rules' and interpretations.

Often times, the IRS makes a rule which is clearly wrong.  A federal judge looks at the IRS rule or interpretation and tells the IRS they got is all wrong.  The judge tells the IRS to knock their shit off and go back and fix their 'rule'.  This happens all the time.  The IRS, even the commissioner, even president Obama, cannot make any laws.  Really, I am not kidding about this.

The people - by way of congress - make ALL laws.  If the people want bitcoin to be a currency and not 'property', the people have the right to make that law, and enact it right away.  This can happen VERY FAST. 

Two things the bitcoin community can do.  1) start a bounty.  The first congressman to bring a bill (proposed law) to congress with a provision mandating that bitcoin be treated as currency for tax purposes, gets the bounty donated to his campaign next term.  2) write to congressmen/women. 

Congressmen and women don't really like taking letters from non-Americans, but they will consider them. 

So stop crying about the IRS.  The IRS simply make a 'rule' which they believe reflects the laws the people already wrote long ago.  Just because those laws are not clear on cryptocurrency, the new rule didn't fall in our favor.  But there is nothing whatsoever preventing the people from bringing this new law - which the IRS MUST enforce.  The IRS CANNOT change nor ignore the law.  We, as the community of people MUST bring this new law.  If we fail to bring a new law, then we are stuck with the old rule.  However, there is NOTHING which prevents the people from bringing this new law.  No matter how much Obama or the IRS might HATE it, the new law brought to congress will be the new law - no matter what. 

IRS does not make new laws.  The people make new laws.  Bitcoiners should donate to congressmen/women who express a favorable position to bitcoin and they should fight against those in government who try to limit bitcoin.  The very first thing we need to do at bitcointalk is compile a list of congressmen/women who are pro bitcoin and antibitcoin.  When it becomes time to vote, we vote out those who thing bitcoin is property so the newly voted congress can bring the laws we need.

The IRS does not make law.  The IRS CANNOT make laws.  The people make the laws (in the US).  Those crazy fuckers in China don't have a congress and the government can make any law they want - and then change it again three time in the next month.  What a roller coaster.

[crocko]

Maybe this help : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvqkQvOWgeo

[5thStreetResearch]

Wait, so we had a say in how we would have liked the IRS to have viewed our bitcoins?  The IRS works for the government who works for corporations.  Unless you are already extremely wealthy the IRS is not working for you, dont be so naive.  

[TKeenan]

Maybe this help : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvqkQvOWgeo

Thanks dude!  That's awesome.  Actually, I live in Spain.  But close enough.  I am just trying to convince those freaking Americans to get control of their servants at the IRS who are supposed to be follow the will of the people.

Wait, so we had a say in how we would have liked the IRS to have viewed our bitcoins?  The IRS works for the government who works for corporations.  Unless you are already extremely wealthy the IRS is not working for you, dont be so naive. 

Only people who like to cry about how helpless they are take this attitude.  "Oh poor me, the government is owned by rich people and they are trying to fuck poor me all day" - pathetic. 

[tvbcof]

There actually is some truth to the assertions of the OP.  Or was.   I remember some years ago, perhaps around the time if the Clinton admin (?) that the IRS had become excessively draconian.  They did one shitty thing to many and the hammer came flat fucking down!  Top people lost their jobs and the whole organization became quite cooperative and pleasant to work with.  They seemed to have an earnest desire to simply help Joe Sixpack type people who solicited their advice.  At least at the lower echelons.  The shift was actually really impressive to me and it did something to give me some confidence in the strength or our democracy.  And the effect even seems to live on this this day even. 

I've never had a bad personal experience with the IRS, though I don't deal with them directly all that much any more...after hiring a CPA to un-fuck me and get rid of a bench warrant or some shit like that.  Obviously I don't like shelling out money to the IRS or anyone else, but I've not felt unfairly abused by the troops in the trenches, or even by the system at large to say the truth, and my tax bill itself tends to exceed the total gross income of households in my area.

[Raize]

Any time I see the "the people" argument with regards to who owns the government I remember that picture of two wolves and a lamb deciding what to eat for lunch...

[zolace]

That is funny,not every people make the rules, the one who makes the rules are in Parliament and Government;after the rules passes the parliament it becomes a law.Also IRS is controlled by government.

[TKeenan]

That is funny,not every people make the rules, the one who makes the rules are in Parliament and Government;after the rules passes the parliament it becomes a law.Also IRS is controlled by government.

There is a very tall stack load of shit you can laugh at about Americans - no doubt.  But one thing is striking - the Fed, including Obama, and all those at higher levels - all actually believe they work at the will of the people.  When the people vote - the government listens.  It is pure nonsense that the government is out trying to get the people and that the government feels it rules.  In the US, like tvbcof said, even the IRS can seriously get the shit kicked out of them.  

If Americans want to make a law that bitcoin is currency - they are certainly allowed to make that law.  Really.  

If the IRS wants to make a law that bitcoin is 'property' - they can't.  The IRS doesn't make laws.  Ever.  Today, the IRS said: "according to the laws we have today, we must treat bitcoin as property".  If anyone doesn't like that, they can easily change the law.  One or two cooperating congressmen - and this thing is up for full debate in congress.  Congress doesn't care about bitcoin - they actually like it.  We saw that already.  It was funny - everyone here was amazed how favorable the lead congressman was.  BTC went shooting through the roof in price.  The US congress has only spoken favorably about bitcoin.  You won't get much resistance to progress in the US.  They like that shit over there.  Why do you think so many cool new things come out of Silicon Valley?  They love that shit.