Solved

[DPHOR]

If I am not mistakenly had never heard about this casino or gambling site like this one here before maybe I could be wrong or right. But most concerned is that why did you go to those gambling site that are reputable and reliable enough to gamble than choosing that site. You check gambling board and see lot of casinos for yourself and check through the sig code below to see lot of gambling site especially that below my profile you would gamble without having any issues provided you read the term of operations.

[JeromeTash]

We've an Agreement here.

So, i hope that soon i could remove this thread.

Thank you all for your thoughts on this.

Just curious on what kind of agreement this could be? Are they going to pay all your money? When, or are they just buying time?

@bennettwinna publically came into this thread to solve your issue, so it's in their best interest that they show a good level of transparency by confirming to us that they paid out the money. Anything less than that may attract tags or even negative publicity toward them.

After all the fiasco, I can't imagine sending huge amounts to that casino.

[caroasi]

Hello,

Please reach out to me via direct message so we can find a resolution. While it is clear that your actions have violated our Terms of Service and we therefore blocked your withdrawal access, we would like to resolve this matter amicably to prevent any misunderstandings or incorrect accusations from circulating online.

Looking forward to your response.

Cut to the chase and provide your evidence of the valuebetting ToS violation. Its now a public issue, so make the evidence of this public. At this time, your company appears to be a scam, and certainly your messages to nothing to help your side of the story. Only evidence can do that.

[JeromeTash]

ASAP as they pay it out, i will remove the thread.

Why would you want to remove the thread through? The whole point of this board is for scam accusations and to document how certain services settle disputes. If threads are removed just because they paid up due to pressure from members, then we will never know the full picture of how the service handles disputes.

btw, anyone here, knows how to remove it?

You can not delete threads in this board to avoid manipulations. Once you create a thread, that is it.
You can only edit the post, and it's title as resolved, but the rest of the information, quotes, and posts from other users will remain.

[Coyster]

Agreement was signed, let's see if they pay out, the agreed amount.

ASAP as they pay it out, i will remove the thread.

btw, anyone here, knows how to remove it?

Let us get something straight here, did they put out an offer to you, which is: they pay you and you remove the thread, is that it? Maybe you should start telling us what you guys are discussing in PM, because it is sounding suspicious. If a case gets resolved, what is done is to change the subject to resolved, then lock the thread and not to look for a way to "remove" the thread.

[Coyster]

Charliesheen, mind you that posting consecutively is against the rules of this forum, next time just say what you want to say in one post. Having said that, sorry for your loss, it was very obvious that this casino is shady, they want you to remove your accusation against them, so others don't see it and stay away, that way they get more victims. It is not even a popular casino to begin with, so i don't know how people even get to find out about them.

[Zwei]

Ok guys, new updates here.

Mr Bennet now reject about everything signed, and does not want to pay the money until the thread is removed.

These people does not want to pay absolutely nothing from the very first momment. It was very clear from the first day, that they simply wanted to take everything for themselves.

how do they expect you to take the post down or mark it as resolved if they don't pay you first?
i bet if you did remove the thread, they would just find another excuse not to pay.

it's useless, but you should red tag their representative and put this thread as reference.

Could you provide me more forums where i can advise people to stay aware from these people?

there is altcoinstalks, you can make a post here: https://www.altcoinstalks.com/index.php?board=84.0

it's a last ditch effort, but maybe submit a complaint with askgamblers and see how that would go?
https://www.askgamblers.com/submit-complaint

[JeromeTash]

Ok man. Excuse me for the failure.
Yes. They want the thread to be removed in order to scam more people. I hope that these 4k serves to others to don't throw their money in this thieves.
At least we have now well positioned in google this thread. If anyone writes "winna.com scam" will find this thread quickly.
I will try anyway, to advise in every forum that i see of these people

But if you are to make a proper scam accusation, make sure it's an actual accusation with evidence of how they scammed you. This includes blockchain evidence like transaction ID, screenshots of your account balances, withdrawal requests and screenshots of your chat log with the support.

Now I want to leave a negative rating on the profile of the so-called support stuff of winna.com using this thread as reference, but you didn't bother to add more information using the screenshots even when I laboured to show you how to do it.

[JeromeTash]

       
Some proofs

Here is the first message with Bennet from Winna.com.

Quoting for visibility and future reference.

[holydarkness]

[...]
Quoting for visibility and future reference.

Not sure how I missed this thread and OP's other threads before, but... JeromeTash, below is reference from OP's other thread, in case you didn't follow that thread. I believe it should clarifies enough; both this, the one with betpanda, and with other casinos [that apparently I now have to sweep them one by one].

And Zwei, I can see you here and you also overseeing OP's other thread with BP quoted below, so I believe you're quite familiar with the situation.

I am a long time arbitrage/valuebettor. I open new accounts, because soon or later, they will limit the accounts.
About Betby clones, most of them pays well. I'm anyway withdrawing the money with not too much winnings, maybe 2-3k in each account. They are so so soft, this is the reason why i'm using them.

[CoffeeSipper64]

What is going on here ,guys?

You are all blatantly treating Charlie like he committed a serious illegal act against the casino or something.
As far as I am looking in their terms and conditions both on winna and betpanda (since they both do use the same scam oddsprovider for betting) there is not even a single sentence that prohibits valuebetting or even arbitrage betting.
Please point out to me where this term is mentioned based on which both casino's refuse to even return the deposit to the bettor

They are confiscating funds from a client , based on his "admission" on this forum that he is a long-term betting winner , using valuebetting when there isn't even a single term in their T&C even prohibiting value or arbitrage betting (not that any betting pattern is easily noticable anyway , to describe is as "betting" or "valuebetting" or even "arbitrage-betting")
and you both appear to be taking the side of the casino that is blatantly scamming him?

I was not really expecting this from HolyDarkness since you have defended hundreds of bettors (including myself) when casinos scammed them for far less money and based on more minor factors than vaguely "accusing" someone of valuebetting like its against their rules when it's not even stated in their terms.

And to be precise , there is nothing wrong or illegal with valuebetting in specific.On the contrary ,it's a solid way for a bettor to make some profit from a sportsbook depending on how "soft" their odds and lines are.Of course said sportsbook has the right on their sole discretion to limit the user , block his account and whatever else they want to .but they should be obligated to PAY him his balance atleast.
And if they try to avoid paying for whatever reason, the betting community should stand WITH the bettor and not opposed to him simply for making some profit on +ev bets.
You see an over1.5 at 1.97 odds on betpanda while bet365 or pinnacle has the odd at 1.6 and you try to get the higher odds possible (in this case the 1.97) and it's expected for you to win longterm.
Casino didn't react to the drop fast enough so some bettors "took advantage" of their slow reaction to make a +EV bet.
What is so wrong with that and where this "illegal act" is described in their terms and conditions that gives them the authority to confiscate all winnings from the account with their only "proof" being the accused bettor "admitting" that he is a long-term winner valuebettor on some betting community-forum?

I don't see the reason you are this hostile to him simply for winning and you take the side of the scam casino(s) but I hope that atleast my side is clear to the OP and I do hope he finds a way to "force" them into paying what's rightfully his.

[holydarkness]

What is going on here ,guys?

Someone slipped and paint his own hand red?

You are all blatantly treating Charlie like he committed a serious illegal act against the casino or something.
As far as I am looking in their terms and conditions both on winna and betpanda (since they both do use the same scam oddsprovider for betting) there is not even a single sentence that prohibits valuebetting or even arbitrage betting.
Please point out to me where this term is mentioned based on which both casino's refuse to even return the deposit to the bettor

They are confiscating funds from a client , based on his "admission" on this forum that he is a long-term betting winner , using valuebetting when there isn't even a single term in their T&C even prohibiting value or arbitrage betting (not that any betting pattern is easily noticable anyway , to describe is as "betting" or "valuebetting" or even "arbitrage-betting")
and you both appear to be taking the side of the casino that is blatantly scamming him?

Have you really looked into it? It's not there? Strange, I find them rather easily:

Winna:



BetPanda


"novel [it means "new"] or recognized betting techniques", given OP played in so many books, it should be a known rule to him that the strategy he utilized fall into the "recognized betting techniques" that is not permitted to be utilized.

I was not really expecting this from HolyDarkness since you have defended hundreds of bettors (including myself) when casinos scammed them for far less money and based on more minor factors than vaguely "accusing" someone of valuebetting like its against their rules when it's not even stated in their terms.

And why are you not really expecting to find me in this situation? Which part of me and my post exactly surprised you as it came rather unexpected? The part where I "defended" a casino where a blatant scam against them is being committed? If it is, then you have a wrong perception about me. I am not defending bettors or casinos, I am "defending" those who are being wronged.

If it's a player being wronged, then yes, I'll chase the casino to make things right and tag them if need to be. If a casino being wronged, should I, in your opinion, defended the bettors and let the casino being scammed? In what world is that logically acceptable, not to mention fair?

And to be precise , there is nothing wrong or illegal with valuebetting in specific.On the contrary ,it's a solid way for a bettor to make some profit from a sportsbook depending on how "soft" their odds and lines are.Of course said sportsbook has the right on their sole discretion to limit the user , block his account and whatever else they want to .but they should be obligated to PAY him his balance atleast.
And if they try to avoid paying for whatever reason, the betting community should stand WITH the bettor and not opposed to him simply for making some profit on +ev bets.
You see an over1.5 at 1.97 odds on betpanda while bet365 or pinnacle has the odd at 1.6 and you try to get the higher odds possible (in this case the 1.97) and it's expected for you to win longterm.
Casino didn't react to the drop fast enough so some bettors "took advantage" of their slow reaction to make a +EV bet.
What is so wrong with that and where this "illegal act" is described in their terms and conditions that gives them the authority to confiscate all winnings from the account with their only "proof" being the accused bettor "admitting" that he is a long-term winner valuebettor on some betting community-forum?

I don't see the reason you are this hostile to him simply for winning and you take the side of the scam casino(s) but I hope that atleast my side is clear to the OP and I do hope he finds a way to "force" them into paying what's rightfully his.

With those screenshots above about prohibited technique and OP's admiting he used the very same technique being said and prohibited, that you unfortunately failed to find when you take a look at both casinos' ToS, should above paragaraphs still be discussed?

[Zwei]

You are all blatantly treating Charlie like he committed a serious illegal act against the casino or something.

having an edge against the casino is definitely not illegal, but we all know almost all casino do not like players who do valuebetting and arbitrage or have an edge.
all of them have some kind of a clause against that in the terms.

As far as I am looking in their terms and conditions both on winna and betpanda (since they both do use the same scam oddsprovider for betting) there is not even a single sentence that prohibits valuebetting or even arbitrage betting.
Please point out to me where this term is mentioned based on which both casino's refuse to even return the deposit to the bettor

you already got your anwser from @holydarkness.

as for refunding the deposit, he already cashed out $4K from winna while his depo was only $900, this is as good as refunding his deposite.
betpanda on the other hand doesn't do refunds at all if you wager your depo, if both of you had really read the terms you would know.

They are confiscating funds from a client , based on his "admission" on this forum that he is a long-term betting winner , using valuebetting when there isn't even a single term in their T&C even prohibiting value or arbitrage betting (not that any betting pattern is easily noticable anyway , to describe is as "betting" or "valuebetting" or even "arbitrage-betting")

i don't know what you are talking about, value betting and arbitrage are one of the easily detectable betting pattern.
i know this for a fact, been there, done that.

and you both appear to be taking the side of the casino that is blatantly scamming him?

i'm defending no casino, i'm just saying things as i see them, and he doesn't have a case here.
by admitting to valuebetting he clearlly broke the casino terms that he agreed to when he signed up. it's that simple.

they should be obligated to PAY him his balance atleast.

not if the terms you agreed to say otherwise.
if the terms are scammy and unfair, you should read them before agreeing to them and playing.

I don't see the reason you are this hostile to him simply for winning and you take the side of the scam casino(s) but I hope that atleast my side is clear to the OP and I do hope he finds a way to "force" them into paying what's rightfully his.

no one is being hostile to him for winning. but what can we do for him when he himself admitted to breaking their terms? get a grip dude.

[holydarkness]

In that case, everyone with a win, after enough number of bets, is circunventing their edge so should be banned and being confiscated.
I still don't get your point here.

What is, from your perspective a "fair Winner" This is the first term that you have to define in order to define later what IS NOT a fair winner.

A guy that wins in poker because has better understanding on the game than the rest of the table is a fair winner, or is not?

Please, define what is, in your opinion, a fair winner. What is, winning fairly.

We both agree that fix matches for example, is not fairly winning, right?

If you say that you are defending what you think is justice, the first thing is to define it properly.

They are talking about betting techniques "in general", that they even don't know how to apply.

About circunventing their edge, there is only one way from a mathematical perspective, and it means that EVERYONE that win, is breaking their T&C, so theorically, everyone that wins, should be confiscated.

You're not right here. And you should change your position.

I believe you understand very perfectly the point being conveyed here. You know what you're doing is wrong, that is why you set several "safe-guards" in the first place, to avoid detection, yet you failed to outsmart the provider and the casinos. And here we are, with you trying to grasp at things to stop you from falling into the hole you dug yourself. So you try to twist the clause, where what's being pointed out here is them prohibiting several known-to-be-prohibited techniques that'll result in a change of "edge", not winning enough number of bets.

But fine, I'll play along for a little: what is fair?

Well, fair will be playing with your own skill and do what normal people do. If you play poker, you train your flat face and bluff heavily, if you play dice or coin flip, you better wish Lady Luck is smiling at you or you have four leaved clover in your pocket. If you bet sports, then you use your guessing skill to see who win or who lose, not placing several bets over several different outcome on several casinos to ensure a winning.

My turn now: what is fair winner to you?

[holydarkness]

I don't bet in various casinos to secure any outcome.
I just bet in each casino itself, and i don't cover any bet.

I agree with one thing from what you say: Winning fairly in whatever in your life in this world where we all live, consists in playing with your own skills. The one that is better is the one that plays better his/her cards, is the one that wins the medal, or has the girl, or has the job, or has the honours in the school because of his/her qualifications.

I am not playing here man. A company is stealing people and you should be in my side. Not because it's me. I have enough money for maybe, the rest of my life, but others will be stolen by this company and will not be in such position, and you should be in the right side. Supporting an injustice once, means that it can always be committed.

Let's put it this way to make it glaring obvious,

This is a complaint thread about Winna, with above ToS, this below is your statement:

I am a long time arbitrage/valuebettor. I open new accounts, because soon or later, they will limit the accounts.
About Betby clones, most of them pays well. I'm anyway withdrawing the money with not too much winnings, maybe 2-3k in each account. They are so so soft, this is the reason why i'm using them.

With above reference, did you or did you not abusing their ToS with your betting preference?

Regarding a company stealing from people [and we're not talking about you here, as you're apparently set up for life, which... is good for you, I'm happy for you for that], rest assured if a case is of a valid situation where the casino is doing their player wrong, I'll supporting the one being wronged. But that is not your case. This casino do by their book.

[CoffeeSipper64]

None of the above two casinos are prohibiting valuebetting since they do not state it in their terms and conditions
winna https://gyazo.com/36f5876570c084ff63831670aa08d3c1
betpanda https://gyazo.com/f52c0faf30266932fbf990fe76f799b5

How can you confiscate a bettor's balance straight up  because he simply typed in a betting forum that he is a "long-term valuebettor/arbitrage winner" without providing A SINGLE proof that he did either valuebetting (which they do NOT prohibit) or if your casino(s) position is that he is arbitrage-betting across many bookmakers as you claim ,holydarkness , shouldnt they provide proofs regarding this accusation?

I don't think that you are in the sport-betting world as long as he is but valuebetting is a really vague concept.

According to you Holydarkness , a bettor should ONLY be accepted and paid if he is just guessing random 1.85-1.85odds handicap lines on a random sportsbetting event and if he wins only by luck in the short term? (Because you simply guessing and betting random 1.85-1.85 odds handicaps will force you to go broke in the longterm without spotting some kind of value on these lines.

In your opinion if he has even a SLIGHT edge over the odds/bookmaker/odds provider then according to you he is not playing "fair" and this justified the casino blatantly scamming him by confiscating his balance?

Type A Valuebetting:
If I bet an over1.5 at 1.95 odds on betby and the same market is 1.72 on bet365 it can actually still lose , and there is no GUARANTEED profit made of such a bet.
It's just an +EV bet to be made and in the longterm (given that the bookie that has the 1.72 odds for that betting selection is sharp enough) he will make some % profit and there is nothing ILLEGAL or IMMORAL about it and every REGULATED bookie on the plated (actually regulated like bet365 , williamhill ,and rest regulated bookmakers) are paying these bets as they should because there is honestly nothing wrong or scam about them.

But okay sure ,lets say that betting the highest odds in the market on betpanda and winna is "unfair play" as they claim and try with another example :
Type B valuebetting:
If I am a Czech Republic bettor and I have been betting on the Czech Basketball league (NBL)for many yield with very good results ,the opening basketball lines on this league on winna.
In this league I have an overall yield/edge of 9% in a couple of thousands of bets in my career and I do end up spotting VALUE on these openning handicap lines.
All my bets on betpanda are beating the closing line of around 5-6pts.For instance I am betting -7.5 team A to win and the handicap ends up closing at -13.5pts which makes my initial -7.5 bet of high value.
Now after 10-12 of these bets and after I have accumilated 1000USD of profit they limit eventually (which is within their right to do) and I request a withdrawal.
According to you HolyDarkness , should I receive my winnings of the bets that I made using my Skrill/Information on this league that I made through valuebetting on their openning lines or should the casino be able to void all my bets and confiscate my winnings?

Because both of these "strategies" are valuebetting in the end and there are many-many others.(and one can also call them arbitrage betting strategies since you can cover your initial bet with profit no matter what happens in the match afterall.
Thats exactly why they do not prohitbit valuebetting in their terms , because you can hardly spot it and in order for scam unregulated casinos (like winna and betpanda are) to call all betting tactics that end up bringing some kind of small profits to the user as "arbitrage" betting and end up not paying them whatsoever.

[holydarkness]

None of the above two casinos are prohibiting valuebetting since they do not state it in their terms and conditions
winna https://gyazo.com/36f5876570c084ff63831670aa08d3c1
betpanda https://gyazo.com/f52c0faf30266932fbf990fe76f799b5

This casino, though, explicitly prohibit arbing, as shown on above screenshot of mine, of which OP admitted that it's one of the strategy he used.

How can you confiscate a bettor's balance straight up  because he simply typed in a betting forum that he is a "long-term valuebettor/arbitrage winner" without providing A SINGLE proof that he did either valuebetting (which they do NOT prohibit) or if your casino(s) position is that he is arbitrage-betting across many bookmakers as you claim ,holydarkness , shouldnt they provide proofs regarding this accusation?

He didn't "plead the fifth" and commiting self-incrimination?

He admitted without any coercion or being under duress, and I am very much sure that is not a sarcasm as well, that he is arbing and value betting, not to mention that he give details how he goes to a length to avoid detection. Is that not beyond-reasonable-doubt enough?

[irrelevant]

Allow me to simplify, as I've explained above: this casino prohibits arbing, this player admit that he's arbing. That is a written statement of a violation. So this case for this casino, is kinda conclusive as the player specifically admitted abusing a ToS.

Interestingly, on the other casino, betpanda, the casino informed the player that it was the provider who made the call. Of which, safe to assume, since the player admitted here that he play with a strategy prohibited by this casino, that casino followed the ruling made by the provider, given they shared the same provider.

Of which, also the reason why the player made accounts daily on different casinos, with different IPs and different wallets and different emails, to avoid being limited. He had a prior situation with casinos and providers. Is this still not beyond reasonable doubt?

No?

Then lucky for us, on other thread, of which the casino have a broader ToS instead of being specific about arbing, Zwei suggested the player to go to an arbitrator where they can prove or disprove the findings. Shouldn't that be conclusive enough? Will their ruling enough for you to be sure beyond reasonable doubt? Because this forum does, we abide to the rulings made by the ADR. And when that case got their ruling, so does this one, as they shared similar provider.

[CoffeeSipper64]

Holydarkness ,
The casino(s) are probably not going to pay him not because him declaring that he is a long term winner by value betting or arbing, but simply because they are unregulated scam phantom casinos that are operating now and in 6months they may close the shop down and relaunch with a diffferent name.
There is no other legit bookmaker in the world that is confiscated winnings that were made with the user staking +ev bets (finding the value himself , following some tipsters or straight up looking at sharp bookmakers and betting the highest price on that casino) , because them claiming “this is against our terms and conditions” wouldn’t stand against any regulator or in any potential court case.

The point is that the terms and conditions of these casinos can be interpreted HOWEVER the said casino wants to interpret them.
Whatever winnings a bettor can make following his own winning strategy beating the odds that they are offering ,can be flagged as “arbitrage” without them having to share any proofs to back up their statements.

On this case the OP claimed that he is arbitrage bettor and a value bettor to the community but the casino should still prove how his betting history is breaking their terms and conditions in order to confiscate 4000 whole USD out of his account,instead of simply claiming this admission of him as proof.

The only reason they don’t do that is because they are unregulated so you can't take them to court or to report them to any normal regulator(like MGA) of their scam ways and two ,because they can close shop down any minute and re-launch the same slots with the same odds provider for Sportsbook with a name winna2.com and betpanda2.io.

Of course the OP is aware of that and so are we all the rest bettors mainly that use casinos for their sportsbook , but the point of this thread is indirectly to prove and warn the rest of the community how blatant and uncalled for their scam ways are.

I personally don’t expect the casino to pay but I do expect the rest of the community (you , me and rest gamblers) to see this case as what is really is.
A casino that is claiming a player breached their terms and conditions without providing any proof to back up this accusation  , due to the only fact that he knows how sports betting works and that he needs to bet on the highest odds in order to make a profit.
And by the way ,you calling this very thing “unfair play because it ensures him a winning”is wrong in any way you look at you.There is still a huge chance of him getting hit variance and going minus several units depending on the factor of luck.The only thing this strategy gives the bettor is a better way to potentially make some profit and nothing else.

I won’t be posting anymore under this thread. Everyone's points have been made clearly and there is no reason to spam anymore.
I truly do respect Holydarkness for what he is offering to the community and I do hope he keeps sharing his insights and he keeps on assisting whichever party is wronged (be it the bettor or the casino) in the many cases that are to come.
In this specific case I strongly believe the player is right and the casino (and mostly the oddsprovider BetBy) is scamming him.

[holydarkness]

None of the above two casinos are prohibiting valuebetting since they do not state it in their terms and conditions
winna https://gyazo.com/36f5876570c084ff63831670aa08d3c1
betpanda https://gyazo.com/f52c0faf30266932fbf990fe76f799b5

This casino, though, explicitly prohibit arbing, as shown on above screenshot of mine, of which OP admitted that it's one of the strategy he used.

btw, for your information, i don't do any arbing since maybe 5 or 6 years ago. So you can quit it from your equation.

Thank you.

In any case, the one that accusse other should be the one that have to prove it.

Are they able to prove that my bets are either valuebets or arbing?

But you did arbing at one point in your life, perhaps multiple times, before you quit, and the provider or perhaps several providers, found out about it? That's why you need to go to a length to create new accounts with new email addresses and new wallets and different IP?

I can "quit it" from my equation, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened, and I don't think the providers are or planning to remove it from your equation anytime soon.

Though I am not sure, I think there is a significant degree of confidence that providers are not in the spirit of forgiveness, that they'll wipe clean after couple of years of no offensive action. And I believe you know about this too, hence the exhaustive effort to sign up into a platform. Because you're playing cat and mouse with Betby.

So yeah, that's not up to me to remove it from the equation.

I'll put it in the clear in case you doubted it [and yes, I am aware that the whole time, my posts on your threads sounded like I'm defending them, but you can check my post history and cases I attend on this board and draw your own conclusion] I barely know this casino, this is the first time I heard of them, and BetPanda? Well, I barely know them too, I am still trying to establish a connection with them to get things resolved. Point is, there is no benefits for me to defend them. Well... basically, there is no benefits for me to defend any side at all, they are all pro bono situations, none of the result of any case affect me, aside from the satisfaction that the victim got what's rightfully theirs.

I am fair and neutral. I'm simply speaking from the facts provided throughout the case. If they wronged you, I'll chase them, but the victim here is the casino.

You know you're not wanted by the providers, that's why you jumping casinos. And you reaped 3,200 USD from them, be it with fair gambling or not, the situation still same, the provider blocked you, you're not wanted due to prior abuse, and you tried to bypass the restriction. That is if we take your words at face value that you no longer arbing and suppose those 8,000 USD was won fair and square

About them proving it... I... well, you managed to make me speechless for a few seconds when I read your reply and got into that part. Where's the proof? There, in your own statement, twice. One on the other thread about how you're arbing, and here about you did it in the past. The records follows. Across platforms, across years. It doesn't matter if you're arbing/value betting a decade ago, they'll still have it in your record.

Your best bet will be to avoid casino that use betby, and/or other providers who caught you. Otherwise, this thing will kept on going.

And, by the way, I retract all of my statement about going to ADR for betpanda, explanation will be on your thread about it.

[caroasi]

I am a long time arbitrage/valuebettor. I open new accounts, because soon or later, they will limit the accounts.
About Betby clones, most of them pays well. I'm anyway withdrawing the money with not too much winnings, maybe 2-3k in each account. They are so so soft, this is the reason why i'm using them.

Wow, this is a surprising post by you, pointed out by holydarkness and means you in fact were playing stupid just as the casino staff said when you asked "What means valuebets?".  (Source: https://talkimg.com/images/2025/04/12/xzyOI.jpeg)

It seems like a solid case for Winna.com against you given both arbitrage and valuebetting were against their ToS. I asked them for their evidence in this thread and they provided none making them look guilty as sin, but see now that you provided their evidence for them, it seems that they were right all along.

If you want to argue arbitrage and valuebetting are invalid contract terms then that is another issue altogether than what you seem to have dishonestly portrayed the issue to be.