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Author Topic: Where is the money going to come from to rally bitcoin?  (Read 4361 times)
seleme
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April 02, 2014, 04:36:32 AM
 #21

OP, sounds like you recently unload a large sum of bitcoin, do you understand that you were able to do that because you are dead wrong?

congarufuckinglation.

It's Edward mate. He is here since 2011 and I doubt there is more than 1 digit posts of his where he doesn't say bitcoin is overvalued, even when it was in single digits.


Quote
So when bitcion was well over $15 or $20, I was saying I would buy bitcions when they hit around $2.00's, that is when I said it was a good long term investment.
Now that it hit that point, I do not even want to buy them. It seems that one thing consistant with bitcoin since it hit $30, was that it continues to drop.

Being one of the bigger bears about bitcoin, I am not sure now where the bottom is. Since I missed buying oil when it was $30, I was waiting for it to hit $20, I do not want to miss the bottom here.

Personally, I think I am going to wait this out for a long term stable price. I believe it should bottom out and stay at that price for a long time, like months, then it may gradually go up from there. But with gradual, I am saying, like 3-5% a year. Reason for saying this is that, 7,500 or so new bitcoins are coming to the market every day, this will have a stabalizing effect on bitcoin.

So I am going to sit this one out.

Remember, bitcoin always reaches its new lows, then it has a dead cat bounce. But the fact is that something like 50K-100K of bitcoins were sold to make it fall this low. These people now own these bitcoins. It only takes maybe 5K bitcoins to increase it back up a bit. However, 100,000 or so bitcoins are now sitting in these peoples pockets.
If they dump them they will make bitcoin fall further. They should also be less likely to buy future bitcoins, now that they own many of them.




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nuff
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April 02, 2014, 04:56:07 AM
 #22

Guys you have to remember the >$1000 price was largely driven by chinese speculators. Bitcoin will have a value no matter what, the minimum of it would be how much it cost to create new bitcoins (through mining), anything higher is artificial/speculative. Of course  over time the price of Bitcoin would fundamentally rise due to its nature of limited supply and being increasingly difficult to mine, albeit slowly and perhaps boringly. Speculators just make Bitcoin the roller coaster ride that we're seeing now.

I think(and hope frankly) Bitcoin is stablizing. Those who bought at the current lows may be hoping to see it go up to $1000 again in a few months like how it was last year, but I don't think we're gonna see those kind of crazy rides anymore.  After the mania stage that was december last year, the bubble cycle is now complete.
Ibian
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April 02, 2014, 07:30:46 AM
 #23

You are far better off placing your money in the stock market and betting on a single stock. At least you know your money is safe.
This would be what you are doing?

Look inside yourself, and you will see that you are the bubble.
dreamspark
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April 02, 2014, 08:32:54 AM
 #24

Guys you have to remember the >$1000 price was largely driven by chinese speculators. Bitcoin will have a value no matter what, the minimum of it would be how much it cost to create new bitcoins (through mining), anything higher is artificial/speculative. Of course  over time the price of Bitcoin would fundamentally rise due to its nature of limited supply and being increasingly difficult to mine, albeit slowly and perhaps boringly. Speculators just make Bitcoin the roller coaster ride that we're seeing now.

I think(and hope frankly) Bitcoin is stablizing. Those who bought at the current lows may be hoping to see it go up to $1000 again in a few months like how it was last year, but I don't think we're gonna see those kind of crazy rides anymore.  After the mania stage that was december last year, the bubble cycle is now complete.

Your wrong and this is what people said about the last bubbles. Its always the end and its always impossible to go for another ATH. The same people who sit around saying bitcoin is dead are the same people who will panic buy on the way back up. Buy high sell low innit...
chessnut
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April 02, 2014, 08:37:29 AM
 #25



Your wrong and this is what people said about the last bubbles. Its always the end and its always impossible to go for another ATH. The same people who sit around saying bitcoin is dead are the same people who will panic buy on the way back up. Buy high sell low innit...

100% with you.

I have only seen one complete cycle, and I always wondered, how do these people give up every time. here we are on the dip, where we all were gonna buy just 3 monhs ago. but this time, bitcoin is dead for good!

the market cap is tiny!

podyx
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April 02, 2014, 10:53:04 AM
 #26

I think edward50 might go down in history as the man who watched bitcoin go from $2 to $5k and lost money

I will genuinely feel sorry for u if we'll see $5k this summer
TERA
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April 02, 2014, 11:52:46 AM
 #27

You guys should be focus on getting the "money in" from people actually using bitcoin as a currency for commerce rather than from "investors"!
chessnut
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April 02, 2014, 11:54:20 AM
 #28

You guys should be focus on getting the "money in" from people actually using bitcoin as a currency for commerce rather than from "investors"!

investors must come first to set up the infrastructure. It cant happen the other way around.

TERA
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April 02, 2014, 12:04:58 PM
 #29

You guys should be focus on getting the "money in" from people actually using bitcoin as a currency for commerce rather than from "investors"!

investors must come first to set up the infrastructure. It cant happen the other way around.
Even if this was true, it means investing into just that: infrastructure. It doesn't mean buying bitcoins.
chessnut
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April 02, 2014, 12:16:53 PM
 #30

You guys should be focus on getting the "money in" from people actually using bitcoin as a currency for commerce rather than from "investors"!

investors must come first to set up the infrastructure. It cant happen the other way around.
Even if this was true, it means investing into just that: infrastructure. It doesn't mean buying bitcoins.

I didnt say they would be buying the coins, and indeed they are setting up the infrastructure at an alarming rate. that IS the focus on getting the "money in"

Investors are none the less needed to take risks. Investors will cause the first wave.

It will be easy to get more investors and commerce to use bitcoins when this is complete.

galbros
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April 02, 2014, 12:19:12 PM
 #31

To answer the original question, wall street or organized crime, though those may be indistinguishable.

The IRS ruling has hurt bitcoin's ability to be used as a payment system.  If you sold out and are happy then good for you!  Right now, I'm holding in the expectation that a community innovative enough to develop bitcoin will be able to find a way around this latest issue.
atcsecure
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April 02, 2014, 07:23:23 PM
 #32

Yeah I guess that's the best way to put it. Smart money is not going to be buying right now. They buy in before any media attention, there has been plenty of media attention actually much more than I could have ever imagined.


Think about what you are saying here,

The media attention has been negative. that means they sold before the media attention.

now they are buying before the next round of good media attention.

^^ THIS ^^

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bitjoint
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April 02, 2014, 07:50:50 PM
 #33

I've said it before and I will say it again, Bitcoin at these high prices is a very bad investment.


leopard2
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April 02, 2014, 08:22:48 PM
 #34

if Bitcoin succeeds (if!) then it must be worth much more than today - this is due to the velocity of money

with $2 or $20 or $200 bitcoins, it is impossible to conduct a reasonable amount of trade

if Bitcoin does not succeed, or another blockchain is the winner, then Bitcoin can drop to zero. I don't believe that will happen, though.

Truth is the new hatespeech.
vitarian
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April 03, 2014, 10:55:02 PM
 #35

my pocket

mine too, I'm still buying
serenitys
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April 04, 2014, 12:52:18 AM
 #36

Google should be kicking in very soon with the launch of Glass, which incorporates BTC as a payment system

http://www.statista.com/statistics/259348/google-glass-annual-sales-forecast/

Bitcoin and Oculus Rift pre Facebook

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1jrmsy/oculus_rift_founder_responds_to_my_request_for/

result:

Oculus Rift + Facebook + BTC


and these:

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/what-companies-accept-bitcoin-cm323438

and then the bitcoin giftcards that are popping up...

Bitcoin's not going anywhere...and the people are about to be coming in droves...*this* year

You say "anti government" like that's a bad thing...

Unfortunate times will bring out the best in good people and the worst in bad people
Bit_Happy
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April 04, 2014, 01:54:15 AM
 #37

Where is the money going to come from to rally bitcoin?
>> People who understand BTC is down over 60%, and that VC money is pouring into Bitcoin companies.
>>> People who sold high and are ready to buy back at a huge profit.

serenitys
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April 04, 2014, 02:49:35 AM
 #38

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-glass-sales-projections-2013-11


this ^^ is one that talks about the market forecast for google glass. I'm sorry I keep posting on it but I keep finding more stuff Cheesy Anyway, there will inevitably be the group, the google glass bears if you will, who will gloom and doom glass as an abject failure - even if glass shined shoes, washed dishes and shit gold dubloons - these sorts will still swear it's the antichrist so ignoring THEM - the social market that will investigate this product aside from the fanboys and tech nerds - these are still large numbers.

http://www.realareal.com/eaze-introduces-nod-pay-service-combining-google-glass-bitcoin

this ^^ is the app that consumers can get working. BTC set up means these people, the ones who have glass, will be buying btc, not just once but regularly...millions of people, millions of new people, being introduced to bitcoin...and bitcoin being legitimized through glass - Google might not be everyone's favorite but everyone knows Google and those who shell out money for Glass obviously trust Google, and its already given a nod to Eaze app as pretty much an endorsement of bitcoin...so people will inherently lean toward also trusting bitcoin.

Once they start using it, sending it, making payments the adoption will grow massively, and combined with the other stuff that's accommodating it.

Glass is being released in a very short time *from here* which means they'll be busting out their mega promotional campaign and indirectly promoting bitcoin as a "thing" that goes with Glass. People who don't know what bitcoin is will google it and wade through all the crap til they work it out and understand. Some of those will see the HUGE investment potential of this influx of new users adding value and buy btc also, right along with all the ones who will buy it to use it for various micro and regular purchases.

Even without any of the others, just that gateway through Google will be massive for bitcoin once the release happens. Add in the other launches of VR, games, and transhumanist tech - 2014 is the launch of a major upswing...seriously.

You say "anti government" like that's a bad thing...

Unfortunate times will bring out the best in good people and the worst in bad people
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April 04, 2014, 02:55:15 AM
 #39

You guys should be focus on getting the "money in" from people actually using bitcoin as a currency for commerce rather than from "investors"!

investors must come first to set up the infrastructure. It cant happen the other way around.

There is money being invested in to BTC infrastructure left, right and centre. Maybe no in to Bitcoin as a commodity/currency, but certainly to help it become more adopted.

Marc Andeerson has already put $25 million in to Coinbase, and said "Bitcoin will be a bigger technological revolution than the internet"


He also vowed to put hundreds of more millions in. When he does, others will follow.



If only Zuckerberg was that pissed at the winklevosses that he started his own billion dollar bitcoin project.

If we want bitcoin to take off in a sense that it's a recognised currency, or even just more widely used (the 10K we all hope it achieves) we need infrastructure through investment not just buying and 'hodling' everything.
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April 04, 2014, 07:11:51 AM
 #40

 First of all, how much money actually came into bitcoin to cause the rally to $1200? The market cap increased from about 2 billion to 14 billion- this is a difference of 12 billion, but did 12 billion dollars really come into the bitcoin ecosystem?

   Right now a buyer with 10 million dollars could probably push the price up by about 100 dollars, if you look at the bid ask spreads, which are very shallow on the ask side. A 100 dollar increase in market value of bitcoin translates to a 1 billion increase in market cap.

    There truly is no such thing as bad publicity- the main barrier to bitcoin acceptance is people's ability to understand what bitcoin is, and this is different for every person. Some people might understand what it means to the global economy and buy, some people might simply understand it allows them to buy things they were unable to before, and some may only understand that it allows them to get a little publicity and attract more customers.

   Buyers in Cyprus didn't cause the rally to 200, and buyers in China didn't cause the rally to 1200- people's reaction to the goings on in China and Cyprus worldwide cause the rallies. Everyone knew that people in China were sick of capital controls and worried about the dollar, which caused a lot of people to buy in.

   So the real question to answer before the question "Where is the money for the next rally going to come from?" is "How much money caused the last rally?"

   This is hard to answer, but I think it is safe to say that the last rally was caused by less than $100 million in "new" money, and that the next rally will have to be caused by more than $200 million in "new" money, new to the bitcoin ecosystem, that is.

   The Fed's quantitative easing is injecting about $118,000,000 an hour into the US financial system. I have heard some on this forum saying the stock market, which you suggest as a safer alternative to bitcoin, has soaked up some of this money, leading to the recent rally in stock prices. The biggest mutual fund recently lost $41 billion just based on the Fed suggesting that they might ease up on QE, which they didn't.

      The amount of money needed to cause another rally in bitcoin is really miniscule, considering numbers like these. Cracks are really starting to appear in the dollar, and I think time will tell that no one and nothing in this world is too big to fail. When flight out of the dollar starts to happen, look out, because you will see not millions, but billions flowing into bitcoin. I think this will happen very fast when it does and without much warning. This is why a lot of speculators who think themselves so clever with their fancy strategies for making hundreds and thousands buying and selling will wake up one morning and realize they would have done better if they'd just bought and held...

      So in short, an increasing number of people are poised to buy, but are just waiting to see if the price is going to go down. If you look at google trend, worldwide searches on bitcoin are down- but in Brazil and many other countries, interest is up. There are probably close to 1 billion people with enough access to and knowledge of computers to buy and use bitcoin. There is currently one smartphone for very five people in the world. There are 1 million coinbase accounts, so I would say right now there are between 2 and 5 million people who can and do use bitcoin. This is less than 1 out of 100. I would say with certainty that 1 out of 100 people would be interested in using bitcoin. I wouldn't be surprised if it were 5 out 100. Let's just be REALLY conservative and say that eventually 1 out of 100 bitcoin users, or a total of 10 million people buy and use bitcoin. If each person only had an average of 100 dollars in bitcoin, since they are so conservative and think bitcoin is risky, this would be 500 million new dollars coming into bitcoin- which could easily raise the price by 300+ dollars.

   These numbers are just to illustrate the point that that to double the current market cap from 5 billion to 10 billion (doubling the market value of bitcoin) would require far less than 5 billion dollars. I am saying it could even be done with 200 million dollars or less. This is because everyone holds, because people who understand bitcoin know it is going to increase in value relative to fiat.

   People are dying all the time and leaving their money to their tech savvy kids. More and more people are learning about bitcoin every day, and more and more people are getting smart phones and learning to use the internet every day. So bitcoin reaching 1% of the internet population and those people buying $100 worth at any price would probably be enough to increase the value at least 5 fold. And this estimate is really conservative- as smartphone bitcoin wallets and mobile internet becomes faster and more widespread, this absolutely has the potential to go seriously viral.


  And need I state it again? A ponzi scheme offers no utility- all it does is promise returns to people, and then delivers those returns based solely on more people investing in the ponzi scheme. This means that as soon as people realize they are ponzi schemes, they collapse.

  Bitcoin offers the utility of solving the problem of double spends and fraud, solving the problem of inflationary fiat currency, solving the problem of capital controls that benefit specific groups at the expense of everyone else, solving the problem of high transaction fees and delays for international transfers, solving the problem of the difficulty of dividing gold into precise denominations, and enables some level of anonymity, which enables safer transactions for black martketeers- the black market being estimated at 1.8 trillion- if bitcoin even captured 1% of that, which would be incredibly profitable to those engaged in the black market trade, that would account for enough to take bitcoin into a major rally.

    All of these factors converging make for a potent combination- but let's suppose you're right- let's suppose bitcoin is too difficult to use and fiat is working fine, (which they're not) and bitcoin has maxed out right now. No one else is going to join the economy, the million or so bitcoin users right now are as big as it's ever going to get... aside from this sounding utterly insane, the fact is, if no one else and no new money ever joins the bitcoin ecosystem again, it will still hold its value- whereas with a ponzi scheme, as soon as people stop buying into it, it stops paying out and dies.


  In short, the answer to your question "Where will the money come from?" is, everywhere.
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