Deleted Card ( PayWithUs)

[shasan]

What happened:: The have deleted the card but before deleting the card they have never informed me and there is no terms and conditions for the deletion. And they are telling me to create a new card by 30$ which is a scam

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3609392

Reference Link: https://prnt.sc/2DKLlOOaL4Bv
Amount Scammed: 30$
Additional Notes: I have contacted with them via telegram chat but they are not able to provide any valid response about the deletion. And on that card there is still top up option according to them it happened for their frontend developers.

Flag: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=3387

Edit:
They Offered users full refunds for deleting negative reviews:

But we assured the Bitcointalk community we’d offer a full refund if you delete your false reviews and admit your claims were fabricated.

They deleted the card instead of blocking the card which is mentioned on their terms. They are stealing the funds of users by deleting the card as the card should be blocked after 5 declines and there is no chance of more decline nut they have neither deleted the card nor blocked the card they just shown deleted card from their website that's why after creating this topic there happened more decline this behavior should be no one but scammers.

The suspended account of other people and ask them to provide evidence

Provide evidence from a suspended account which I have no access to because you deliberately suspended the account and maybe purged the evidence in the first place. scammer.

Update:
They have suspended my account:

[RonKoetse@protonmail.com]

We have certain rules established by the bank, which are clearly stated in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484771.msg63647081#msg63647081), on our terms and conditions page, and through periodic notifications on our website. These notifications serve as a reminder that multiple declines due to insufficient funds may result in your card being deleted. Your card received a significant number of declines for insufficient funds and was therefore deleted by the bank’s risk control system.

UPDATE: we discovered that this user received the card for FREE from the very beginning as part of our trial program—he never spent a single cent on it. And now he’s calling us scammers? Ridiculous.

[shasan]

We have certain rules established by the bank, which are clearly stated in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484771.msg63647081#msg63647081), on our terms and conditions page, and through periodic notifications on our website. These notifications serve as a reminder that multiple declines due to insufficient funds may result in your card being deleted. Your card received a significant number of declines for insufficient funds and was therefore deleted by the bank’s risk control system.

On your terms and conditions page, you have not mentioned the deletion of a card you have mentioned blocking a card. And it is for 5 declined but you have charged me 6 times for the decline. Why you have charged 6 times instead of blocking after the 5 declined and why there is no notification about the charge as well as about the deletion of the card?

[Hazink]

We have certain rules established by the bank, which are clearly stated in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484771.msg63647081#msg63647081), on our terms and conditions page, and through periodic notifications on our website. These notifications serve as a reminder that multiple declines due to insufficient funds may result in your card being deleted. Your card received a significant number of declines for insufficient funds and was therefore deleted by the bank’s risk control system.

From your ANN thread:

Important Notes : We are blocking the following merchants : PAYPAL , ONLYFANS , TINDER. We are offering premium BINS , so we are completely restricting using our cards for subscriptions, and for "first billing" advertisement. The card will be blocked and will not be refunded after having 5 declines (no coverage) in 48 hours.

There is a difference between blocking a card and deleting a card. If there is a payment decline for insufficient balance, there is a need for the card to be blocked. It's understandable for security reasons, and the card should later be reopened if the customer contacts you and rectifies the issue with you, but why delete a card when you know it costs money to request a new one, and that's a totally different thing from what you stated on your ANN thread?

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Your card received a significant number of declines for insufficient funds and was therefore deleted by the bank’s risk control system.

I believe you have these details?

Now is your time to prove yourselves right. Post the evidence here (of course you can blur/cover off any sensitive information in the screenshots). We (or the members in this forum just want to be sure who is right or wrong.)

[DireWolfM14]

Your card received a significant number of declines for insufficient funds and was therefore deleted by the bank’s risk control system.

I believe you have these details?

Now is your time to prove yourselves right. Post the evidence here (of course you can blur/cover off any sensitive information in the screenshots). We (or the members in this forum just want to be sure who is right or wrong.)

Shasan didn't deny the allegation, in fact he corroborated it:

And it is for 5 declined but you have charged me 6 times for the decline. Why you have charged 6 times instead of blocking after the 5 declined and why there is no notification about the charge as well as about the deletion of the card?

Anyway, the terms are indeed clearly laid out in the accused's service thread, and Shasan admitted to reaching the number of declined transactions listed in the thread.

To be honest, I don't care either way.  Certainly not enough to oppose or support the flag.  Selling non KYC virtual debit cards is shady as fuck, and anyone buying them should assume there's risk involved.

[RonKoetse@protonmail.com]

Sure, we have all the evidence, and if a moderator requests it, we will provide it. However, at this moment, there is no need to do so since "Shasan" does not deny this fact. Additionally, we respect our users’ privacy.

[Zwei]

We have certain rules established by the bank, which are clearly stated in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484771.msg63647081#msg63647081), on our terms and conditions page, and through periodic notifications on our website. These notifications serve as a reminder that multiple declines due to insufficient funds may result in your card being deleted. Your card received a significant number of declines for insufficient funds and was therefore deleted by the bank’s risk control system.

but your own terms say nothing about cards being deleted after getting blocked?
it clearly say the card would be blocked by you and not the bank, and the user can unblock it by contacting you.

Sure, we have all the evidence, and if a moderator requests it, we will provide it. However, at this moment, there is no need to do so since "Shasan" does not deny this fact. Additionally, we respect our users’ privacy.

first, mods don't moderate scam accusations.
second, if @Shasan is okay with it, i don't see why not post the info, as long as you redact all personal details.

[RonKoetse@protonmail.com]

We have certain rules established by the bank, which are clearly stated in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484771.msg63647081#msg63647081), on our terms and conditions page, and through periodic notifications on our website. These notifications serve as a reminder that multiple declines due to insufficient funds may result in your card being deleted. Your card received a significant number of declines for insufficient funds and was therefore deleted by the bank’s risk control system.

but your own terms say nothing about cards being deleted after getting blocked?
it clearly say the card would be blocked by you and not the bank, and the user can unblock it by contacting you.

Sure, we have all the evidence, and if a moderator requests it, we will provide it. However, at this moment, there is no need to do so since "Shasan" does not deny this fact. Additionally, we respect our users’ privacy.

first, mods don't moderate scam accusations.
second, if @Shasan is okay with it, i don't see why not post the info, as long as you redact all personal details.

The decision to unblock a card lies solely with www.paywithus.net, and our final decision was to delete this card. This action was taken because many users exploit cards to obtain free trials without intending to pay for subscriptions. Such abuse negatively impacts the system and may affect other users.

To prevent misuse and ensure security for all users, the bank’s risk control feature is essential. We do not impose excessive requirements—simply cancel any subscriptions you do not intend to pay for or maintain a sufficient balance to cover them.

[Zwei]

The decision to unblock a card lies solely with www.paywithus.net, and our final decision was to delete this card. This action was taken because many users exploit cards to obtain free trials without intending to pay for subscriptions. Such abuse negatively impacts the system and may affect other users.

To prevent misuse and ensure security for all users, the bank’s risk control feature is essential. We do not impose excessive requirements—simply cancel any subscriptions you do not intend to pay for or maintain a sufficient balance to cover them.

i get why you deleted the card, but you are missing my point.
your terms (neither on the website or the forum) say anything about deleting a card after blocking it.

if you are going to delete cards for whatever reason, you should clearly say it in the terms.

[Free Market Capitalist]

In this dispute I am more for what shasan says, because as others have pointed out the ToS talk about blocking, not deleting.

However, no one else is struck by the fact that someone who is in the business of lending money acknowledges that he has tried to pay 5 times without sufficient funds?

[RonKoetse@protonmail.com]

The decision to unblock a card lies solely with www.paywithus.net, and our final decision was to delete this card. This action was taken because many users exploit cards to obtain free trials without intending to pay for subscriptions. Such abuse negatively impacts the system and may affect other users.

To prevent misuse and ensure security for all users, the bank’s risk control feature is essential. We do not impose excessive requirements—simply cancel any subscriptions you do not intend to pay for or maintain a sufficient balance to cover them.

i get why you deleted the card, but you are missing my point.
your terms (neither on the website or the forum) say anything about deleting a card after blocking it.

if you are going to delete cards for whatever reason, you should clearly say it in the terms.

Despite the terms and conditions, and message in our thread ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484771.msg63647081#msg63647081 - "The card will be blocked and will not be refunded after having 5 declines (no coverage) in 48 hours.
")  there is also a mandatory notification https://ibb.co/BHQk8snZ that you cannot bypass until you click ‘Notified.’ These are our rules, and whether you like them or not, if you choose to use our service, you are required to follow them.

[God Of Thunder]

However, no one else is struck by the fact that someone who is in the business of lending money acknowledges that he has tried to pay 5 times without sufficient funds?

I don't think this is strange. People mostly use these cards to pay for online subscriptions, such as buying game credits or subscribing to Netflix. Some services automatically try to spend the funds from your card when the package expires. If the funds are insufficient, the service keeps trying to renew your subscription until it succeeds. I assume he subscribed to something and turned on the auto-renewal, which triggered multiple attempts to spend the funds from the card. I am sure people do not keep large funds on such cards.

-----

Whatever, you are right. But you are missing a simple point. You never mentioned anywhere that the card would be deleted. Did you? Of course, you can do whatever you want with your business, but you have to follow your own rules. If you do something, mention it in your terms and conditions. You are not providing a personal service; you are running a business. So, you have to be professional.

[DiMarxist]

We have certain rules established by the bank, which are clearly stated in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5484771.msg63647081#msg63647081), on our terms and conditions page, and through periodic notifications on our website. These notifications serve as a reminder that multiple declines due to insufficient funds may result in your card being deleted. Your card received a significant number of declines for insufficient funds and was therefore deleted by the bank’s risk control system.

That is bullshit. They are not ready to do business therefore they have to stop online cards issuing because people will be frustrated with their obnoxious Terms and Conditions. It would have better you guys making things fair foe people to use online. I have been using master card for years, and I have not gotten any issue in offline. And I thought that would have been the case here but this blocking and deleting method of cards is not the best way.
If this service was good many people here would used it and you would have gotten your service fee regular.

[RonKoetse@protonmail.com]

However, no one else is struck by the fact that someone who is in the business of lending money acknowledges that he has tried to pay 5 times without sufficient funds?

I don't think this is strange. People mostly use these cards to pay for online subscriptions, such as buying game credits or subscribing to Netflix. Some services automatically try to spend the funds from your card when the package expires. If the funds are insufficient, the service keeps trying to renew your subscription until it succeeds. I assume he subscribed to something and turned on the auto-renewal, which triggered multiple attempts to spend the funds from the card. I am sure people do not keep large funds on such cards.

-----

Whatever, you are right. But you are missing a simple point. You never mentioned anywhere that the card would be deleted. Did you? Of course, you can do whatever you want with your business, but you have to follow your own rules. If you do something, mention it in your terms and conditions. You are not providing a personal service; you are running a business. So, you have to be professional.

https://ibb.co/BHQk8snZ

[JollyGood]

I have some questions. In the screenshot it shows a balance of $4.87. This amount belongs to shasan therefore will you return it to him if does not want to pay $30 to obtain the card or will you confiscate the balance?

Regarding the card that was deleted, did shasan pay $30 for it and was given a $10 balance (or another amount minus the $20 fee) or did he receive it on a promotional offer/free trial courtesy of PayWithUs?  

The decision to unblock a card lies solely with www.paywithus.net, and our final decision was to delete this card. This action was taken because many users exploit cards to obtain free trials without intending to pay for subscriptions. Such abuse negatively impacts the system and may affect other users.

To prevent misuse and ensure security for all users, the bank’s risk control feature is essential. We do not impose excessive requirements—simply cancel any subscriptions you do not intend to pay for or maintain a sufficient balance to cover them.

[Hazink]

However, no one else is struck by the fact that someone who is in the business of lending money acknowledges that he has tried to pay 5 times without sufficient funds?

I don't think this is strange. People mostly use these cards to pay for online subscriptions, such as buying game credits or subscribing to Netflix. Some services automatically try to spend the funds from your card when the package expires. If the funds are insufficient, the service keeps trying to renew your subscription until it succeeds. I assume he subscribed to something and turned on the auto-renewal, which triggered multiple attempts to spend the funds from the card. I am sure people do not keep large funds on such cards.

You are correct, @God Of Thunder, and it's not just something that happens with Netflix; almost all subscriptions which we use our card for do try that. Unless you go back and cancel your membership with them or use the payment option and disable the card once it's the due date for your subscription renewal, they will keep on trying to make the payment themselves through the card you have added there even without your permission, and I have been debited for my Netflix subscription renewal even when I no longer use the account again, which is why I have to cancel my membership with them.

You keep reuploading this image to answer the question about card deleting, which you don't have included in your ToS, both on the forum and on your website. What if the customer doesn't log into his or her account over this period? Do you just assume they got the notification and chose to ignore it? And aside from the pop-up and the display each time the customer logs in, do you try reaching them with the warning via the email attached to the account?

[dkbit98]

What happened:: The have deleted the card but before deleting the card they have never informed me and there is no terms and conditions for the deletion. And they are telling me to create a new card by 30$ which is a scam

I warned everyone about this shady service from the first days they showed up in forum.
If I remember correctly there is another member who previously accused them from stealing money from him.
Now, speaking from experience of testing other virtual crypto cards, I can say they are very unstable and I had cards canceled/deleted as well for different reasons.

The decision to unblock a card lies solely with www.paywithus.net, and our final decision was to delete this card. This action was taken because many users exploit cards to obtain free trials without intending to pay for subscriptions. Such abuse negatively impacts the system and may affect other users.

So according to this you are now accusing shasan that he tried to exploit something from your service, all because you think he won't pay for subscription
Sounds like a silly excuse to me.

[RonKoetse@protonmail.com]

What happened:: The have deleted the card but before deleting the card they have never informed me and there is no terms and conditions for the deletion. And they are telling me to create a new card by 30$ which is a scam

I warned everyone about this shady service from the first days they showed up in forum.
If I remember correctly there is another member who previously accused them from stealing money from him.
Now, speaking from experience of testing other virtual crypto cards, I can say they are very unstable and I had cards canceled/deleted as well for different reasons.

The decision to unblock a card lies solely with www.paywithus.net, and our final decision was to delete this card. This action was taken because many users exploit cards to obtain free trials without intending to pay for subscriptions. Such abuse negatively impacts the system and may affect other users.

So according to this you are now accusing shasan that he tried to exploit something from your service, all because you think he won't pay for subscription
Sounds like a silly excuse to me.

Our service is fully automated, and as soon as the bank’s risk control is triggered, the card will be frozen and then deleted. Since our launch, we have had more than 5,000 users, all of whom know that we always strive to help and resolve issues, including offering full refunds or card replacements when the issue is on our side. However, in this case, the user subscribed to a service, then abandoned their card, resulting in more than 10 consecutive declines. This triggered the bank’s risk control, leading to the card’s deletion. Now, they are trying to blame us as scammers, despite the situation being entirely due to their own actions.

[albon]

Our service is fully automated, and as soon as the bank’s risk control is triggered, the card will be frozen and then deleted. Since our launch, we have had more than 5,000 users, all of whom know that we always strive to help and resolve issues, including offering full refunds or card replacements when the issue is on our side.

If you are talking about offering full refunds, then why didn’t you refund the $50 for the card this user purchased, which didn’t work with German accounts? This is proof that you do not adhere to your stated refund policy. And if the card doesn’t work with German accounts, shouldn’t you have mentioned this beforehand?

As german customer I am not too happy with the product. It sometimes works, often it does not but everytime I try it costs several times 0,15$ fee.
I also bought a 50$ Card with the Paypal Logo but realised immediately after that they dont work with german paypal accounts (cause you cannot use US-adresses there).
The support says "we do not provide a refund in this case".
So the policy from page one does not apply? "Refund policy : We will refund fully the users , if the card is not working for their needs."

Refund policy : We will refund fully the users, if the card is not working for their needs.

------------------
Coming back to this issue, your ANN topic was posted here in the forum on February 11, 2024, which is the same time Shasan received your card. This was before you edited your announcement topic on February 19, 2024, and added the refund policy and important notes.

Assuming he didn't notice these important notes in your topic, he should have at least received email notifications about this. Also, you didn't mention deleting the card but rather just saying that it will get blocked, as @Zwei has mentioned. So, to avoid prolonging the discussion here, you should either restore Shasan’s deleted card or issue him a new one as compensation for what happened, as the mistake is on your side. Even if he had abandoned his card and it was blocked, he would have had the option to recover it through your support. Now, he is forced to buy a new one, which is unfair in this case.