How Trump may destroy F-35 sales

[franky1]

Once you buy anything from the US you run the risk of Trump cutting supplies, maintenance and training. Trump has clearly show not that he is likely to take those decissions, but that he HAS already threatened the countries that actually buy from US.

trump wont even be around in 2050 nor have any power from 2029 to do anything in regards to cutting supplies in 2029-2050-2070

informing potential purchases and purchasers whom yet to have goods delivered of the service schedule end so that they can be freed to choose other options is not a threat.. its a favour

There is nothing related to obsolescence, the F35 is a modern plane. There is only one problem for this or any other future sale: The US is no longer trustable thanks to Trump. It does not matter if you try to sell Patriots, HIMARS or planes... there is no trust in supplies

You would not buy the car you need for work from a brand that is trying to annex your garden. They can simply stop maintaning your car, you loose your jobs and then they buy your garden for pennies. (This is me really trying to explain to a 6 year old).

other countries are not arguing trumpyisms.. because trump actually done them a favour of announcing the cut off date of the f35 which is already 20 years old and so not as modern as you portray

ok lets use your car analogy (car lifespan 12 years compared to fighter plane 40 years 1:4-ish)
a f35 car is already 5 years old of its 12 year lifespan. so not really modern model

and cars parts do stop being produced, and its actually good for car manufacturers to tell car purchasers if there was going to be any problems servicing their car within 12 years before the 12 year arrives

heck the other favour is those that ordered a f35 car but not getting delivery yet, are getting the option to cancel order and choose other options

other car producing countries do not mention service cut off dates, so potential car purchasers are now actually demanding other car brands to reveal schedule of service cut off dates so they can make informed decisions about which cars will last 12 years

i do find it funny that doing purchasers a favour by giving them notice is treated as a bad thing, whilst also announcing this years latest model that will last 12 years

[paxmao]

trump wont even be around in 2050 nor have any power from 2029 to do anything in regards to cutting supplies in 2029-2050-2070

other countries are not arguing trumpyisms.. because trump actually done them a favour of announcing the cut off date of the f35 which is already 20 years old and so not as modern as you portray

heck the other favour is those that ordered a f35 pre 2025 but not getting delivery for years, are getting the option to cancel and choose other options

other plane producing countries do not mention cut off dates so potential purchasing countries are now actually demanding other plane producing countries to reveal schedule of cut off dates so they can make informed decisions

i do find it funny that doing purchasers a favour by giving them notice is treated as a bad thing,

Again, the problem is not th F35  nor that Trump will or will not be alive, the problem is that the US itself has let itself be dragged into a narrative of going agains the same countries that actually buy weapons of all kinds from them. The fact that one US POTUS has created doubts about alignment and support is enough to break relations forever.

You can look for your preferred narrative as you are doing in so many other topics, but the hard fact remains: You usual clients are very wary of buying anything from the US and Europe is clearly about to change from customer to competitor.

[franky1]

Again, the problem is not th F35 Â nor that Trump will or will not be alive, the problem is that the US itself has let itself be dragged into a narrative of going agains the same countries that actually buy weapons of all kinds from them. The fact that one US POTUS has created doubts about alignment and support is enough to break relations forever.

You can look for your preferred narrative as you are doing in so many other topics, but the hard fact remains: You usual clients are very wary of buying anything from the US and Europe is clearly about to change from customer to competitor.

doubts? no it actually gives purchasers pre-knowledge to make better informed decisions

yes there are going to be less f35 bought and built due to the announcement. but thats a good thing in many ways, because the purchaser gets to look for better options that they know will last them. and the US is even giving them a new option

many other countries are not so open about lifespan of parts and upgrades.. now thats where the doubts lay.. and right now this month purchasers are actually trying to get more information out of other countries to then make better informed decisions of planes they will need for the next 40 years

..
what you are not informed about is that many plane producing countries and the US decades ago never informed purchasers about parts/upgrade longevity. and when for instance previous US administration stopped the f16 production, it caused issues and different administrations had to restart-stop-restart-stop a few times before 2024 all because of issues of purchasers not being informed so they demanded and negotiated extensions.

but by being informed of longevity its a good thing for purchasers

again yes less purchasers will want the f35, but thats good for them. they made an informed decision. and had the option to cancel orders, another good thing

and yes there is a new model this year the f47, which is a good thing for the US to have a replacement thats new and will operate and be serviceable long past purchasers desired longevity/lifespan needs.

other countries though are still hesitant to reveal their longevity/lifespan schedules of servicing/parts. which will eventually be the scenario the f16 experienced , but for other plane manufacturers

revealing lifespan of servicing and parts is a good thing. it makes purchasers informed

[paxmao]

You are still yet to answer a simple question: if the F35 is obsolete, were is the fighter that can be bought instead? And do not bother to answer "F47" because it simply does not even exist.

Again, the problem is not th F35 Â nor that Trump will or will not be alive, the problem is that the US itself has let itself be dragged into a narrative of going agains the same countries that actually buy weapons of all kinds from them. The fact that one US POTUS has created doubts about alignment and support is enough to break relations forever.

You can look for your preferred narrative as you are doing in so many other topics, but the hard fact remains: You usual clients are very wary of buying anything from the US and Europe is clearly about to change from customer to competitor.

doubts? no it actually gives purchasers pre-knowledge to make better informed decisions

yes there are going to be less f35 bought and built due to the announcement. but thats a good thing in many ways, because the purchaser gets to look for better options that they know will last them. and the US is even giving them a new option

many other countries are not so open about lifespan of parts and upgrades.. now thats where the doubts lay.. and right now this month purchasers are actually trying to get more information out of other countries to then make better informed decisions of planes they will need for the next 40 years

..
what you are not informed about is that many plane producing countries and the US decades ago never informed purchasers about parts/upgrade longevity. and when for instance previous US administration stopped the f16 production, it caused issues and different administrations had to restart-stop-restart-stop a few times before 2024 all because of issues of purchasers not being informed so they demanded and negotiated extensions.

but by being informed of longevity its a good thing for purchasers

again yes less purchasers will want the f35, but thats good for them. they made an informed decision. and had the option to cancel orders, another good thing

and yes there is a new model this year the f47, which is a good thing for the US to have a replacement thats new and will operate and be serviceable long past purchasers desired longevity/lifespan needs.

other countries though are still hesitant to reveal their longevity/lifespan schedules of servicing/parts. which will eventually be the scenario the f16 experienced , but for other plane manufacturers

revealing lifespan of servicing and parts is a good thing. it makes purchasers informed

More narrative that does not change the threats from Trump to Denmark, Canada, Mexico, the EU.... Let's call them from now "former clients" or "new competitors".

I am not sure who are you trying to convince at this point, yourself or the core MAGA voters that anyway do not care.

[franky1]

You are still yet to answer a simple question: if the F35 is obsolete, were is the fighter that can be bought instead? And do not bother to answer "F47" because it simply does not even exist.

if you buy a f35 today you wont get it for 5-7 years
there is no "dealership drive away same day" purchase plan even for the f35

..
but yet again lets describe it in a way you might understand

imagine you had a windows 8 pc that you have been using for years that is no longer offering service packs
so you look to possibly factory reset and get windows 10.. however windows 11 becomes available and its announced service packs for windows 10 will stop in october 2025

so still interested in windows 10?
yep windows 10 sales will decline, and thats already been worked into the business plan, microsoft isnt crying that there will be a decline of windows 10 because people think its obsolete today even if service packs will still be offered for many months

by informing the world about a end date of providing aftercare service, whom is it harming, if the company/gov/manufacturer also offers some new product that will come with lifespan after care, and where they offer the option to cancel purchases of yet to be delivered older models/generation

who are you trying to convince as getting hurt by giving them pre-knowledge and options?

[paxmao]

You are still yet to answer a simple question: if the F35 is obsolete, were is the fighter that can be bought instead? And do not bother to answer "F47" because it simply does not even exist.

if you buy a f35 today you wont get it for 5-7 years
there is no "dealership drive away same day" purchase plan even for the f35

..
but yet again lets describe it in a way you might understand

imagine you had a windows 8 pc that you have been using for years that is no longer offering service packs
so you look to possibly factory reset and get windows 10.. however windows 11 becomes available and its announced service packs for windows 10 will stop in october 2025

so still interested in windows 10?
yep windows 10 sales will decline, and thats already been worked into the business plan, microsoft isnt crying that there will be a decline of windows 10 because people think its obsolete today even if service packs will still be offered for many months

by informing the world about a end date of providing aftercare service, whom is it harming, if the company/gov/manufacturer also offers some new product that will come with lifespan after care, and where they offer the option to cancel purchases of yet to be delivered older models/generation

who are you trying to convince as getting hurt by giving them pre-knowledge and options?

I perfectly understand obsolescence. But it is a lie. This plane is far from any type of obsolesce. Again, if this is obsolete, were is the Windows 12? I mean a real plane that can be bought instead and actually exists.

Lies after lies to cover up the superfuckup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20plans%20to%20buy,and%20to%20operate%20to%202070.

The U.S. plans to buy 2,456 F-35s through 2044, which will represent the bulk of the crewed tactical aviation of the U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps for several decades; the aircraft is planned to be a cornerstone of NATO and U.S.-allied air power and to operate to 2070.

Anyone that has even a clue of how long an air system and platform lasts know that they tend to be there for many many decades.

[franky1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20plans%20to%20buy,and%20to%20operate%20to%202070.

The U.S. plans to buy 2,456 F-35s through 2044, which will represent the bulk of the crewed tactical aviation of the U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps for several decades; the aircraft is planned to be a cornerstone of NATO and U.S.-allied air power and to operate to 2070.

you are using citations from 2016 (facepalm)
alot has changed since then

Anyone that has even a clue of how long an air system and platform lasts know that they tend to be there for many many decades.

and thats exactly the thing!
wake up and catch up..(alot of controversies with lockheed martin between 2016-2024)

the world has been told the f35 wont last until 2070
so its silly to buy something that you know you will want to run until 2070, but know wont reach that timeframe whilst still offering service/aftercare

do you get it yet
canada has been informed and been allowed to withdraw its purchase order.. which is all transparent and good for canada
canada is not contracted to stick with the f35, they have been given the option to look for other options.. all good again

there is also now this month an ability to order new f47
and yes everyone knows that the f47's are not in some airbase parking lot waiting to be taken away same day, they all know they have to wait 5-7 years just to take delivery

so your nonsense about "where are the f47's" is not a question canada is even asking.. because all other deals they done on older generation planes were all involving a multi-year wait for delivery.. so they know the f47 planes are not in some airbase parking lot waiting to be delivered same day

so tell me how has canada been hurt by the announcements this month, they have actually been freed from a contract that would have ended badly if they were forced to stick with it

[paxmao]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20plans%20to%20buy,and%20to%20operate%20to%202070.

The U.S. plans to buy 2,456 F-35s through 2044, which will represent the bulk of the crewed tactical aviation of the U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps for several decades; the aircraft is planned to be a cornerstone of NATO and U.S.-allied air power and to operate to 2070.

you are using citations from 2016 (facepalm)
alot has changed since then

Anyone that has even a clue of how long an air system and platform lasts know that they tend to be there for many many decades.

and thats exactly the thing!
wake up and catch up..(alot of controversies with lockheed martin between 2016-2024)

the world has been told the f35 wont last until 2070
so its silly to buy something that you know you will want to run until 2070, but know wont reach that timeframe whilst still offering service/aftercare

do you get it yet
canada has been informed and been allowed to withdraw its purchase order.. which is all transparent and good for canada
canada is not contracted to stick with the f35, they have been given the option to look for other options.. all good again

there is also now this month an ability to order new f47
and yes everyone knows that the f47's are not in some airbase parking lot waiting to be taken away same day, they all know they have to wait 5-7 years just to take delivery

so your nonsense about "where are the f47's" is not a question canada is even asking.. because all other deals they done on older generation planes were all involving a multi-year wait for delivery.. so they know the f47 planes are not in some airbase parking lot waiting to be delivered same day

so tell me how has canada been hurt by the announcements this month, they have actually been freed from a contract that would have ended badly if they were forced to stick with it

My non-sense? It was actually YOUR non-sense and other's around here saying that the F47 is the replacement and F35 is obsolete. Still waiting for you to state what is the replacement, because if there is not one, then by definition it cannot be made obsolete = you do not have anything better.

Do you deny that the US is going to keep producing and buying for their own military F35? Do you deny that they are going to be upgrading over and over the existing ones (like they did with the F16) You know... once you lie, you have to keep on lying...

The new F-35s produced in 2024 and beyond will have the same kind of upgrade capabilities that we saw in the transition from the F/A-18 Hornet to the F/A-18 Super Hornet which was a drastic advance in capabilities. After TR-3 and Block IV, the F-35s will get additional major upgrades with things like loyal wingmen anonymous drones under the control of the F-35, energy weapons, and maybe autonomous F-35 capabilities. Over the next 50 years, F-35s will be upgraded to keep 3000+ F-35 platforms operational with other new weapons systems like the US NGAD and UK Tempest. With over 3000 platforms, the F-35 has the volume of platforms to economically justify major upgrades over the years.

None of that is going to happen?

Ok, here you are:

https://www.gao.gov/blog/f-35-will-now-exceed-2-trillion-military-plans-fly-it-less

Operating and support costs continue to rise despite the military planning to use the F-35 less
Across the military there are about 630 F-35s—with plans to buy about 1,800 more. The Air Force, Marines, and Navy each have their own versions of the F-35.

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/03/australia-could-get-first-new-f-35-by-2029-if-government-reverses-program-cuts-lockheed-exec/

AVALON AIR SHOW — The first of 28 new F-35 stealth fighters that were previously canceled by the incumbent government in Canberra could be delivered to the Royal Australian Air Force as soon as 2029, should Australia go ahead with the order, according to an executive with plane maker Lockheed Martin.

Why would Australia buy? Do they not understand that concept that only you seem to grasp?

[franky1]

the f47 is the replacement

again even you are quoting how when countries buy or put an order in. thier plane is not ready, they instead get a delivery 5-7 years later

so why keep on asking "where are the f47's" .. like ALL DEALS IN ALL HISTORY the planes are made after the deals are done and the planes become physically available 5-7 years after deals are done
how can you not even read your own quotes to realise that
even australia is questioning whether to go through with the f35 deal or take their cancellation ability to think of other options

..
YOU have been crying for a week now saying that the F35's have an expiry which can cause issues for countries defense in many years..
i have agreed and yes there is an expiry which i have mentioned to you that by announcing it, it has been good for the countries because they can now consider other options, so no harm

now you are trying to change and say how the f35 will continue beyond its lifespan... (facepalm)
YOU have gone against your own rhetoric to just argue.. because now your saying the f35's parts and service plan will outlife the lifespan of the plans sold already
silly thing you are doing is using wikipedia citations from 2016 as your source of your misrepresentations, as many things have happened since 2016

the f47 is the replacement for the f35 and many countries have been informed, and given the heads up and given informed consent and ability to change or cancel their orders

so who has been hurt??

..
look at your australian deal scenario link at the bottom of your post..
planes that were cancelled could be delivered by 2029 IF australia choose to go ahead with the order

australia cancelled the order thus they are not buying.. the link you provided is not proof of buying .. its a 'could be' and 'should they' of 'if' statements, if they went through with a deal that they DID cancelled..

The first of 28 new F-35 stealth fighters that were previously cancelled by the incumbent government in Canberra could be delivered to the Royal Australian Air Force as soon as 2029, should Australia go ahead with the order, according to an executive with plane maker Lockheed Martin.

they understand it, i understand it.. you are the one that doesnt understand
you started conversations on f35 topics crying how the f35 wont last the lifespan countries intend to use planes for, which i agree, but the methodology of the conclusion we differed on.. you spouted about some remote kill switch.. i corrected you about it being a deadline of aftercare which ends way before expected longevity of planes lifespan/utility requirement
and then you said how countries are not buying the plane [whatever stupid thing you pulled from twitter and crap media]

i clarified about it being the lack of full lifespan aftercare
you than spun around to a new narrative to say the availability of after care will now outlast life span/utility requirement of planes
you then also saying how countries are still buying the plane
..
you make no sense and your narrative and debate changes..

..
so one last time
by giving countries pre-knowledge to make future plans, giving them transparency decades ahead, giving them options to withdraw their orders and seek other options, giving them a next gen plane to think about too..

who is being harmed here??

[DeathAngel]

There isn’t much Trump isn’t destroying at the moment with all his tariffs talk which is causing market uncertainty & making assets bleed. I wanted him to win the election but now I think it might have been better if Kamala had won. She might have just left markets alone to do their thing.

[paxmao]

There isn’t much Trump isn’t destroying at the moment with all his tariffs talk which is causing market uncertainty & making assets bleed. I wanted him to win the election but now I think it might have been better if Kamala had won. She might have just left markets alone to do their thing.

Is all about the narrative now. If you read above, there is total denial despite evidence in written from several sources... It is just the MAGA-zombism in action.

You are right in essence, even the FED is clearly warning of an economic severe downturn and they are not ruling out going into "stagflation" in the US. I do not think that all Reoublican voters would vote the same today after their pension funds are being destroyed.

[montaga]

Fighter jets are out of place in modern battlefields. Modern air battle is like a computer game, some dude sitting in a dirt hole and operating all kinds of new drones from various defence companies like, https://helsing.ai/

Apparently very hard to shoot down, more luck or faith than anything else
https://youtu.be/MowWjVqhWaI

Azerbaijan won the recent conflict with Armenia because it that better operators or drones (supplied by Turkey) than the Armenians with Russian supplied drones.

In other news, people start to complain about banal thins like John Deer Tractor doors are crap....

Countries that have issued a travel advisory warning their citizens about visiting the US:
Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Netherlands, New Zealand, UK
 Olympics and the World Cup still save?