Warren Buffet - Tariffs are not paid by the Tooth Fairy

[franky1]

2 years is full manufacturing time line... not assembly plant

to make a full production line needs a custom building made to particular spec's of floor plan and area's sectioned off for different phases of production..
however a assembly plant skips the first phases of production and just deals with the final stage.. so less custom requirements and less floorspace, so leasing existing empty ware housing is possible

adding to that, because its a lease rather than a purpose-build they can pay monthly instead of upfront huge investment. thus cheaper

i do laugh how you think businesses only option is to just halt importing and old method production and have no product to offer consumers and just make everyone wait 2 years simply because trump wants full production

adding to that, they dont need to custom build each machine. they can just remove machines from foreign assembly plants and ship them to america and fit them in thus set up in months, not 2 years.. yep it doesnt take years to calibrate

i do laugh that you think that both shifting to full production and "assembly only" both requires 2 years + huge capex just to get to "us made" status of goods

adding to that training does not take 2 years people can be trained in weeks to operate a machine
heck

yes the long approach of full production can take 2+ years to get set up. but businesses are not gonna delay things and produce nothing for 2 years. they are going to do the assembly plant model NOW to resolve issues NOW to then have time buffer and constant revenue incoming to then deal with the long term strategy

yes before trump ends his administration in 3.5 years there will be more full production so trump would be happy.. but for the next 2 +there will be more assembly only "us made" done

research hint:
GM fort wayne ASSEMBLY PLANT
GM’s decision to bolster production at its Fort Wayne facility will result in creating between 225 to 250 new jobs
Implementing these operational changes requires a brief pause in production, with the facility set to shut down temporarily from April 22 to April 25 immediately following Easter weekend.

oh look not 2 years
oh look, back in business before May 2025

[paxmao]

2 years is full manufacturing time line... not assembly plant

to make a full production line needs a custom building made to particular spec's of floor plan and area's sectioned off for different phases of production..
however a assembly plant skips the first phases of production and just deals with the final stage.. so less custom requirements and less floorspace, so leasing existing empty ware housing is possible

adding to that, because its a lease rather than a purpose-build they can pay monthly instead of upfront huge investment. thus cheaper

i do laugh how you think businesses only option is to just halt importing and old method production and have no product to offer consumers and just make everyone wait 2 years simply because trump wants full production

adding to that, they dont need to custom build each machine. they can just remove machines from foreign assembly plants and ship them to america and fit them in thus set up in months, not 2 years.. yep it doesnt take years to calibrate

i do laugh that you think that both shifting to full production and "assembly only" both requires 2 years + huge capex just to get to "us made" status of goods

adding to that training does not take 2 years people can be trained in weeks to operate a machine
heck

yes the long approach of full production can take 2+ years to get set up. but businesses are not gonna delay things and produce nothing for 2 years. they are going to do the assembly plant model NOW to resolve issues NOW to then have time buffer and constant revenue incoming to then deal with the long term strategy

yes before trump ends his administration in 3.5 years there will be more full production so trump would be happy.. but for the next 2 +there will be more assembly only "us made" done

research hint:
GM fort wayne ASSEMBLY PLANT
GM’s decision to bolster production at its Fort Wayne facility will result in creating between 225 to 250 new jobs
Implementing these operational changes requires a brief pause in production, with the facility set to shut down temporarily from April 22 to April 25 immediately following Easter weekend.

oh look not 2 years
oh look, back in business before May 2025

Franky... dude... it is in your own text... it is bolstering production - increasing on something existing - of course that is moderately easy if you have spare capacity. And again, it is not me, just do some very basic reseach on time and costs, and please, do not pretend to know what it takes to create a production line - you are absolutely clueless.

And that is only cars, there are industries that are even more complex and requre even 5 years to start the production lines for all the reasons I have mentioned. It is easy to understand.

[franky1]

again you are inept in your reading and researching... the fort wayne plant is an ASSEMBLY plant
so while you want to think "bolstering production" means full manufacturing. its not. its about right now this month increasing the final assembly by still getting parts from many countries and just final assembly in the US to "bolster production" of "us made" cars
its cheap, easy, fast.. its not a 2-5 year obstacle
again they are boosting production from april 25th THIS YEAR with over 200 extra NEW trained staff
so your time lines are off

as for long term view. again businesses are not just going to stop assembly lines now, nor stop taking parts from abroad now, to then waste 2-5years(your fear) to build out whole manufacturing facilities from raw materials. and then only start producing "american made" cars in 2-5 years
they know how to get around the tariffs on the parts. so why stop now

grow up and actually learn

GM is already and will be making US made cars this year.. not starting from 2027-30

you keep thinking they need to make new machines, and start from raw steel now to buiild from scratch now to be "us made", when reality is they already have the machines/robots around the world and just need to ship them in weeks to the us, fit them, calibrate them which is less than a week and train staff in that short period

your crappy timeline of 2-5 years to have "US MADE" is wrong because you dont know what is needed as a minimum classification to be "US MADE"

yes an end goal is to be less dependant on other countries. but you are trying to push a fear story of import retail ready cars at high tariff or wait 5 years
as only option. you are trying to deny the existence of the assembly only business model.. yet its the business model businesses are exactly doing right now

you are ignoring continuously the middle ground
try to learn there is more than the two fear options you are pushing

i know you are only pushing the fear stories because thats the type of silly clickbait you read without fact checking. but do try to fact check
businesses know how to counter the tariffs. there are many ways, businesses are not feeling the fear you are reading, they are instead acting savvi and solving the problem and so its not a problem in weeks(not a problem already for many)

what you have to realise, is most businesses wont be hit by tariffs in the ways your fearbait..
however you as a individual if you chose to buy something from say alibaba. then you individually getting retail ready chinese goods as a individual via a standard customs port. you would have to pay a tariff

again YOU buying foreign by YOU using a foreign retailer will be hit by tariffs and their sales tax and extra fee's.... but big businesses are smarter then you and have ways to get around the tariffs thus they can offer goods cheaper and without all the excess costs and delays you pretend will hit them


work it out. dont just use click bait stories that circle jerk your silly notion. look beyond your silly notion, open your eyes wider, see the other options, learn more then the limited scope you set yourself

stop muwing like a starving kitten that you think the only options are more expensive foreign goods due to tariffs charged to consumer.. or waiting 5 years for us goods expensive due to labour+capex.. realise another option exists and is being implemented this month or already implemented

[paxmao]

It is not useful to speak with someone who makes up numbers and generalises from a case and the like, but does not answer to the key issues.

I think enough has been presented for anyone to make his own mind about what happens if you suddenly raise the tariffs (and then not, and then maybe). Companies are very reluctant to invest in plants that take years to cover the CAPEX amortization when they do not know what will happen not just in four years.. but even in the next month.

Equaly anytone can understand the time and costs that takes to bring a production line into service. There are some easy to find links, even when building with all the conditions in your favour (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/01/14/not-so-fast-can-elon-musk-really-open-teslas-china-gigafactory-this-year/#429c58978d92).

That is for cars, but there are products that are even worse (no wonder trump paused tariffs on electronics, apart from favouring Apple and Tesla):

https://download.intel.com/newsroom/2022/manufacturing/fab-final-static.pdf

A fab — which includes 1,200 multimillion-dollar tools and 1,500 pieces of utility
equipment — takes about three to four years, over $10 billion and 7,000 construction
workers to complete. Three of the fab’s four levels support the clean room level, the
place where actual chip production occurs.

Some people may have only a basic understanding of JIT - Just  in Time, but that is pretty much how cars are produced in Japan and other competitive countries. It requires a nearly perfect link between all the manufactures involved in the processes and it cannot be achieved in islotation when relocating or rebuilding.

Steel is another clear example - in the UK they are now trying to save the local production, but at least everyone is very clear about the fact that this will need large subsidies. In the US the consumer will be the subsidy.

Again, the best thing about this is that now the Trumpites will need to start looking for a narrative about why inflaiton will hit hard - but it is much more difficult to make people gullible to these narratives when the food and shelter become unaffordable.

[BADecker]

It is not useful to speak with someone who makes up numbers and generalises from a case and the like, but does not answer to the key issues.

I think enough has been presented for anyone to make his own mind about what happens if you suddenly raise the tariffs (and then not, and then maybe). Companies are very reluctant to invest in plants that take years to cover the CAPEX amortization when they do not know what will happen not just in four years.. but even in the next month.

Equaly anytone can understand the time and costs that takes to bring a production line into service. There are some easy to find links, even when building with all the conditions in your favour (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/01/14/not-so-fast-can-elon-musk-really-open-teslas-china-gigafactory-this-year/#429c58978d92).

That is for cars, but there are products that are even worse (no wonder trump paused tariffs on electronics, apart from favouring Apple and Tesla):

https://download.intel.com/newsroom/2022/manufacturing/fab-final-static.pdf

A fab — which includes 1,200 multimillion-dollar tools and 1,500 pieces of utility
equipment — takes about three to four years, over $10 billion and 7,000 construction
workers to complete. Three of the fab’s four levels support the clean room level, the
place where actual chip production occurs.

Some people may have only a basic understanding of JIT - Just  in Time, but that is pretty much how cars are produced in Japan and other competitive countries. It requires a nearly perfect link between all the manufactures involved in the processes and it cannot be achieved in islotation when relocating or rebuilding.

Steel is another clear example - in the UK they are now trying to save the local production, but at least everyone is very clear about the fact that this will need large subsidies. In the US the consumer will be the subsidy.

Again, the best thing about this is that now the Trumpites will need to start looking for a narrative about why inflaiton will hit hard - but it is much more difficult to make people gullible to these narratives when the food and shelter become unaffordable.

You are only looking at the short term. In addition, you are trying to continue the stealing of US prosperity from Americans. Get a job so you don't need to be supported by America.

[franky1]

Equaly anytone can understand the time and costs that takes to bring a production line into service. There are some easy to find links, even when building with all the conditions in your favour (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2019/01/14/not-so-fast-can-elon-musk-really-open-teslas-china-gigafactory-this-year/#429c58978d92).

and paxmaos cough 'expert' cough says (from the article)

-There’s no precedent for building a large, modern auto-assembly plant and starting its production in under a year, manufacturing experts say.
-Unless he’s mastered some approach that I’m not aware of to do everything in a more effective and efficient way,
-that lead time to build is going to be really challenging
-From the first shovel in the ground to the first vehicle rolling off an assembly line, the fastest we’ve ever seen is 24 months
-That schedule can go all the way up to 36 months.
-Analysts estimate that getting the plant to Tesla’s half-million-unit capacity goal may total $5 billion.

now do you know the brilliant thing about research
.. that article is talking about

-Tesla secured the 210-acre site in Shanghai’s Lingang area last year for about $140 million,
-and Musk said the cost of the initial phase to get the facility up to 250,000 units of annual capacity would be about $2 billion
We're looking forward to hopefully having some initial production of the Model 3 towards the end of this year and achieving volume production next year,” Musk said at the Shanghai groundbreaking January 7[2019].

soo lets see how long it took

and oh look

-The team completed the US$2 billion project at record speed, moving from permitting to final electrical work in just 168 working day
The plant officially opened in December 2019 to great fanfare,  

so $2b and 11 months.. as planned.. so elon was correct and paxmao's estimations from his "expert" were incorrect by a factor of atleast 2.5x

so paxmao can you please chill out on your CAPEX "expert" stuff. and realise:
if it takes just 11 months for full manufacturing production plant, than things like assembly plants can be dealt with much faster and cheaper in many places of the world
adding to that if using already purchased equipment and just moving them to america to place into a ready build structure thats leased on freeport land.. that cost and time becomes even less. EG if leasing or using ready built building to just fill with only final assembly equipment then all ther permit and stuff was already done before lease was signed(get it yet)

then because its on freeport land they can sidestep the tariff's

so now i have taught you a lesson about your so called CAPEX research you obsess about diverting the subject.. can we return to the discussion about sidestepping the tariffs by way of freeports and you finally give it a go at proper research as to why buffet is not actually concerned about tariffs when it comes to his international goods(syrup) shipments, whereby he is instead chuckling in laughter at th question

and now do some proper research on how freeports work so you can independently learn why warren buffet is smiling and not crying in fear. for your ow independent learning, without having to trust me or warren
please learn how freeports work, for the mercy of your own education

but please have a nice easter weekend without replying with insults, to give yourself some time to learn how the MEDIA cries of trade war fears are different to the BUSINESS chuckling laughter of savvi smart businessmen

[BADecker]

Just a note. If we haven't seen it already, China is hurting itself to fight Trump tariffs.


China Refuses Boeing Jet Deliveries.


https://thenationalpulse.com/2025/04/15/china-refuses-boeing-jet-deliveries/
❓ What Happened: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has instructed domestic airlines to halt acceptance of Boeing jet deliveries amid escalating trade tensions with the United States.

👥 Who’s Involved: The Chinese government, domestic Chinese airlines, Boeing, U.S. companies supplying airline parts, and President Donald J. Trump.

📍 Where & When: The announcement occurred in China in the context of ongoing trade disputes with the U.S.

💬 Key Quote: “We do not see China as critical to Boeing’s ramp over the next few years,” said Seth Seifman, an analyst with JPMorgan. He added: “China will be important longer term, however.”

⚠️ Impact: Boeing’s stocks dropped by 1.6 percent in morning trading. China’s heightened tariffs on U.S. goods to 125 percent complicate aircraft and parts shipments, affecting affordability. The trade rift may disrupt Boeing’s planned deliveries, impacting future transactions.
...

[montaga]

Just a note. If we haven't seen it already, China is hurting itself to fight Trump tariffs.


China Refuses Boeing Jet Deliveries.


https://thenationalpulse.com/2025/04/15/china-refuses-boeing-jet-deliveries/
❓ What Happened: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has instructed domestic airlines to halt acceptance of Boeing jet deliveries amid escalating trade tensions with the United States.

👥 Who’s Involved: The Chinese government, domestic Chinese airlines, Boeing, U.S. companies supplying airline parts, and President Donald J. Trump.

📍 Where & When: The announcement occurred in China in the context of ongoing trade disputes with the U.S.

💬 Key Quote: “We do not see China as critical to Boeing’s ramp over the next few years,” said Seth Seifman, an analyst with JPMorgan. He added: “China will be important longer term, however.”

⚠️ Impact: Boeing’s stocks dropped by 1.6 percent in morning trading. China’s heightened tariffs on U.S. goods to 125 percent complicate aircraft and parts shipments, affecting affordability. The trade rift may disrupt Boeing’s planned deliveries, impacting future transactions.
...

China ordered all Chinese airlines to stop purchases of all aircraft related equipment & parts from all American companies.

Boing is not the only Airpanemanufacturer in the world.
Some alts to Boing:  Airbus, Bombardier, Dassault, Embraer, Daher (world's oldest aircraft manufacturer), Sukhoi, Irkut, Tupolev, Yakovlev...........

[franky1]

China ordered all Chinese airlines to stop purchases of all aircraft related equipment & parts from all American companies.

Boing is not the only Airpanemanufacturer in the world.
Some alts to Boing:  Airbus, Bombardier, Dassault, Embraer, Daher (world's oldest aircraft manufacturer), Sukhoi, Irkut, Tupolev, Yakovlev...........

for clarity
china have alot of goods shelved at chinese ports, where US businesses are cancelling orders. and so china have spare cargo ships and planes just sitting idle being hit with 'parking' charges and the goods being hit with demurrage charges for just sitting idle until the suppliers take it back or find another country to take the goods

this means that china dont need the extra planes and new cargo ships from the US plane/ship builders.
they are also taking planes needing repair offline instead of repairing them, and will be looking for other plane/ship builders to supply them when shipments pick-up again.

..
part of trumps trade deals with other countries is to get them to support US as oppose to china. which is a way of dismantling the whole BRICS & silkroad2. as we have seen with the panama canal gateways, which are now not served by china and are now undoing the silkroad2 deals of the 'belt&road' stuff

[BADecker]

^^^ If it doesn't work - Trump dismantling BRICS - the backfire will dismantle MAGA.

[paxmao]

Just a note. If we haven't seen it already, China is hurting itself to fight Trump tariffs.


China Refuses Boeing Jet Deliveries.


https://thenationalpulse.com/2025/04/15/china-refuses-boeing-jet-deliveries/
� What Happened: The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has instructed domestic airlines to halt acceptance of Boeing jet deliveries amid escalating trade tensions with the United States.

👥 Who’s Involved: The Chinese government, domestic Chinese airlines, Boeing, U.S. companies supplying airline parts, and President Donald J. Trump.

� Where & When: The announcement occurred in China in the context of ongoing trade disputes with the U.S.

💬 Key Quote: “We do not see China as critical to Boeing’s ramp over the next few years,” said Seth Seifman, an analyst with JPMorgan. He added: “China will be important longer term, however.”

âš ï¸� Impact: Boeing’s stocks dropped by 1.6 percent in morning trading. China’s heightened tariffs on U.S. goods to 125 percent complicate aircraft and parts shipments, affecting affordability. The trade rift may disrupt Boeing’s planned deliveries, impacting future transactions.
...

China ordered all Chinese airlines to stop purchases of all aircraft related equipment & parts from all American companies.

Boing is not the only Airpanemanufacturer in the world.
Some alts to Boing:  Airbus, Bombardier, Dassault, Embraer, Daher (world's oldest aircraft manufacturer), Sukhoi, Irkut, Tupolev, Yakovlev...........

You are right, but at the same time you are not. Boeing is in crisis, which means that if you want a large'ish Western made plane you only got realistically Airbus, but... you do not because Airbus has a long queue of deliveries and is working at top capacity.

You could argue that Ruzzian made could do, but the problem is that Ruzzia is far too busyi using whatever components come their way in the war effort and during the next years it may be simply unable to deliver anything.

Dassault, Embraer, Daher... they do not produce, as far as I know, the larger liners like 477 or A380 that are really what China and most countries need to be competitive in people air transport.

The aviation market is going to be super-hard for China, but anyway there will be a deal sooner or later. China and US are just flexing muscles.

[franky1]

The aviation market is going to be super-hard for China, but anyway there will be a deal sooner or later. China and US are just flexing muscles.

when May 2nd hits. the small package exports from china will really hit china.
(items under $800 will be tariffed as of may 2nd)

this means the orders that usually get delivered via air freight would drop drastically if china dont make a deal
though air freight has already took a hit, may 2nd+ will really show if china can keep holding out in regards to air freight stoppages and lack of goods leaving china
..
china have not made a deal yet as they were too busy over the last fortnight travelling to the ASEAN countries trying to recruit them as re-shipping route to the US to evade high tariffs. and thus dont want to tip their hand by communicating with the US making side deals with US while trying to get ASEAN countries to not deal with US.. only time will tell if those countries side with china or US and if china bow down or toughen up the tensions. may 2nd+ will be more motivating and only the 3rd week of the 13week negotiation period

[paxmao]

The aviation market is going to be super-hard for China, but anyway there will be a deal sooner or later. China and US are just flexing muscles.

when May 2nd hits. the small package exports from china will really hit china.
(items under $800 will be tariffed as of may 2nd)

this means the orders that usually get delivered via air freight would drop drastically if china dont make a deal
though air freight has already took a hit, may 2nd+ will really show if china can keep holding out in regards to air freight stoppages and lack of goods leaving china
..
china have not made a deal yet as they were too busy over the last fortnight travelling to the ASEAN countries trying to recruit them as re-shipping route to the US to evade high tariffs. and thus dont want to tip their hand by communicating with the US making side deals with US while trying to get ASEAN countries to not deal with US.. only time will tell if those countries side with china or US and if china bow down or toughen up the tensions. may 2nd+ will be more motivating and only the 3rd week of the 13week negotiation period

I wonder how the lower income band of US citizens are going to get their supply of lower income stuff that is mostly produced in China. Do you think that could have an effect on their support for the Trumpublican party?
Just say anything, you do not need evidence like looking at current polls or anything, just find you own number and put it here with some stuff as usual - it is not going to change the mid-terms.


Maybe he can beat Biden...

[franky1]

china is not the lowest income country

the reason america got tied to china is called trade deals... look them up
they are not just about % tariff numbers but also about agreements to tie countries together to support certain types of goods
china became the 'factory of the world' not due to having lowest min wage, as they dont have lowest min wage
they won trade deals due to other practices, tricks and deal technicalities

whats happening this year though is those deals are being changed. they are not as beneficial as they were 20-30 years ago
america is diversifying from the china dominance


als worth noting: if america only wanted "made in USA" he could simply close the borders and not need to negotiate with any country

the reason he doing tailored deals with each country is to give many dozens of countries opportunity to take over where china left off. where by america can then take in even cheaper labour of parts/refined materials from multiple countries, have those countries check and sanction china before they are exported if china try re-labelling/re-shipping games.. so that the goods are truly cheap from places like vietnam and india and processed BY vietnam and india.. and finish it in america and sell domestically in america
(emphasis all with less/no china meddling)

as for social polls.. they are always bias to whatever side the social platform that asked them to polls leans towards
also most people only know what media told them. they dont know real economics nor how trade deals work. hence why they and you think its just about % and not other trade factors/technicalities

as for where are people gonna get the cheap stuff THAT WAS made in china.. well the answer is OTHER COUNTRIES with even lower labour costs

[BADecker]

If the US gov. wants more money, they will have to reduce tariffs to some extent. The whole thing is an ongoing 'juggle' to keep the tariffs high enough so that the government makes money, and so that MAGA happens throughout the US, while keeping them low enough that a maximum amount of trade happens (to get the tariff money, of course).

Without foreign trade, government doesn't make any money. With too much foreign trade, America becomes weak from depending on it (foreign trade). And the balance is always changing depending on the products and services traded.

[paxmao]

china is not the lowest income country

the reason america got tied to china is called trade deals... look them up
they are not just about % tariff numbers but also about agreements to tie countries together to support certain types of goods
china became the 'factory of the world' not due to having lowest min wage, as they dont have lowest min wage
they won trade deals due to other practices, tricks and deal technicalities

whats happening this year though is those deals are being changed. they are not as beneficial as they were 20-30 years ago
america is diversifying from the china dominance


als worth noting: if america only wanted "made in USA" he could simply close the borders and not need to negotiate with any country

the reason he doing tailored deals with each country is to give many dozens of countries opportunity to take over where china left off. where by america can then take in even cheaper labour of parts/refined materials from multiple countries, have those countries check and sanction china before they are exported if china try re-labelling/re-shipping games.. so that the goods are truly cheap from places like vietnam and india and processed BY vietnam and india.. and finish it in america and sell domestically in america
(emphasis all with less/no china meddling)

as for social polls.. they are always bias to whatever side the social platform that asked them to polls leans towards
also most people only know what media told them. they dont know real economics nor how trade deals work. hence why they and you think its just about % and not other trade factors/technicalities

as for where are people gonna get the cheap stuff THAT WAS made in china.. well the answer is OTHER COUNTRIES with even lower labour costs

If they US would not want anything from abroad, it would collapse. The US has long lost the ability to produce most of what they use daily.

The reason about "taylored deals" it to make it look like if countries did not already have their taylored deals, grab media attention and make it seem like if trading, negotations and deals started only when Trump became president - even if the deal can be similar to many.

This is just the irresponsible way of doing it, but the right way that does not create shockwaves into people's livelihoods does not give you 24 hour cycle exposure and that is not Trumpy.

[franky1]

china is not the lowest income country

the reason america got tied to china is called trade deals... look them up
they are not just about % tariff numbers but also about agreements to tie countries together to support certain types of goods
china became the 'factory of the world' not due to having lowest min wage, as they dont have lowest min wage
they won trade deals due to other practices, tricks and deal technicalities

whats happening this year though is those deals are being changed. they are not as beneficial as they were 20-30 years ago
america is diversifying from the china dominance


als worth noting: if america only wanted "made in USA" he could simply close the borders and not need to negotiate with any country

the reason he doing tailored deals with each country is to give many dozens of countries opportunity to take over where china left off. where by america can then take in even cheaper labour of parts/refined materials from multiple countries, have those countries check and sanction china before they are exported if china try re-labelling/re-shipping games.. so that the goods are truly cheap from places like vietnam and india and processed BY vietnam and india.. and finish it in america and sell domestically in america
(emphasis all with less/no china meddling)

as for social polls.. they are always bias to whatever side the social platform that asked them to polls leans towards
also most people only know what media told them. they dont know real economics nor how trade deals work. hence why they and you think its just about % and not other trade factors/technicalities

as for where are people gonna get the cheap stuff THAT WAS made in china.. well the answer is OTHER COUNTRIES with even lower labour costs

If they US would not want anything from abroad, it would collapse. The US has long lost the ability to produce most of what they use daily.

now your getting it
last month you were obsessed with the notion that america were going to go full production (raw mineral mining->refining->moulding-> manufacturing)
where you said it would take years and billions just for the facility set up

you are now realising trumps not closing borders to do it 100% domestic.. but doing trade deals to decentralise the supply chain to not be china dependant..
so that america can be more part of the supply chain internationally instead of china and handle just the final assembly part

thank you for finally wising up
+1 respect

The reason about "taylored deals" it to make it look like if countries did not already have their taylored deals, grab media attention and make it seem like if trading, negotations and deals started only when Trump became president - even if the deal can be similar to many.

um no. things are changing. deals are being done which will shift things. but how much is upto the countries coming to the negotiation table. the main aim though is to not be reliant on china or other countries which are just puppet(shell companies) of china

This is just the irresponsible way of doing it, but the right way that does not create shockwaves into people's livelihoods does not give you 24 hour cycle exposure and that is not Trumpy.

media are not presenting details correctly. which does cause people to react emotionally.. but thats media.. they just love provoking emotion
trump himself doesnt want to reveal his hand too soon about the deals he wants. so yea trump isnt helpful at communicating current affairs, but then again in any business deal, its best to not reveal your hand until the deal is done

however between trump  not revealing hand early. vs media clickbait provoking.. media seem to fail at good investigative journalism
for instance media make people think all the goods below $800 were tariffed and screaming about inflation and costs on consumers.. yet a quick search revealed goods under $800 were not tariffed for decades and the <$800 exemption is only going to expire on may 2nd.. thus not been a fear people had to worry about for the last few months of media attention on tariffs

media have only been talking of tariffs in the last couple months but tariffs have been controlling prices for years/decades. media portray america as bad guy for no longer doing 0% this year.. yet other countries already had NON 0% tariffs against US/UK/EU/ASIA for years (i in the UK had to pay a tariff on an asic as far back as 2014)

[paxmao]

china is not the lowest income country

the reason america got tied to china is called trade deals... look them up
they are not just about % tariff numbers but also about agreements to tie countries together to support certain types of goods
china became the 'factory of the world' not due to having lowest min wage, as they dont have lowest min wage
they won trade deals due to other practices, tricks and deal technicalities

whats happening this year though is those deals are being changed. they are not as beneficial as they were 20-30 years ago
america is diversifying from the china dominance


als worth noting: if america only wanted "made in USA" he could simply close the borders and not need to negotiate with any country

the reason he doing tailored deals with each country is to give many dozens of countries opportunity to take over where china left off. where by america can then take in even cheaper labour of parts/refined materials from multiple countries, have those countries check and sanction china before they are exported if china try re-labelling/re-shipping games.. so that the goods are truly cheap from places like vietnam and india and processed BY vietnam and india.. and finish it in america and sell domestically in america
(emphasis all with less/no china meddling)

as for social polls.. they are always bias to whatever side the social platform that asked them to polls leans towards
also most people only know what media told them. they dont know real economics nor how trade deals work. hence why they and you think its just about % and not other trade factors/technicalities

as for where are people gonna get the cheap stuff THAT WAS made in china.. well the answer is OTHER COUNTRIES with even lower labour costs

If they US would not want anything from abroad, it would collapse. The US has long lost the ability to produce most of what they use daily.

now your getting it
last month you were obsessed with the notion that america were going to go full production (raw mineral mining->refining->moulding-> manufacturing)
where you said it would take years and billions just for the facility set up

you are now realising trumps not closing borders to do it 100% domestic.. but doing trade deals to decentralise the supply chain to not be china dependant..
so that america can be more part of the supply chain internationally instead of china and handle just the final assembly part

thank you for finally wising up
+1 respect

The reason about "taylored deals" it to make it look like if countries did not already have their taylored deals, grab media attention and make it seem like if trading, negotations and deals started only when Trump became president - even if the deal can be similar to many.

um no. things are changing. deals are being done which will shift things. but how much is upto the countries coming to the negotiation table. the main aim though is to not be reliant on china or other countries which are just puppet(shell companies) of china

This is just the irresponsible way of doing it, but the right way that does not create shockwaves into people's livelihoods does not give you 24 hour cycle exposure and that is not Trumpy.

media are not presenting details correctly. which does cause people to react emotionally.. but thats media.. they just love provoking emotion
trump himself doesnt want to reveal his hand too soon about the deals he wants. so yea trump isnt helpful at communicating current affairs, but then again in any business deal, its best to not reveal your hand until the deal is done

however between trump  not revealing hand early. vs media clickbait provoking.. media seem to fail at good investigative journalism
for instance media make people think all the goods below $800 were tariffed and screaming about inflation and costs on consumers.. yet a quick search revealed goods under $800 were not tariffed for decades and the <$800 exemption is only going to expire on may 2nd.. thus not been a fear people had to worry about for the last few months of media attention on tariffs

media have only been talking of tariffs in the last couple months but tariffs have been controlling prices for years/decades. media portray america as bad guy for no longer doing 0% this year.. yet other countries already had NON 0% tariffs against US/UK/EU/ASIA for years (i in the UK had to pay a tariff on an asic as far back as 2014)

Never said that. I said tariffs are paid by the US citizen, either by paying to import or by paying the exra of the local produce. Provided opinions by respected economists to which you provided a "Franky" "explanation" with what you call your DYOR and I call your DIY - AKA "reinventing the whell making sure is square"

To that you said that the increase is small (and you made up a few numbers), that it can be done nearly immediately, that the US has the environment that allows a fast transiton,...

I do not agree. The US has long ago lost all that environment (see Detroit to get a full grasp of how it went).

Apple's CEO does not agree, and he got a tailored deal and other's will follow. Because in the end, the US has lost the capacity to build iPhones (if ever had it). And like this many industries - e.g. it is now being spoken about car parts (ahem... Elon). Again, all this could have been avoided with a little bit of proper work, less media and basic intelectual abilities.

And now you come up with a different theory about raw materials imports, etc... I will let yourself be hanged by your own words, it is becoming better than Netflix.

Trump does not want the American people to know what is the effect of tariffs, so there must be some effect...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c2xUvE53Dc

"this is a hostile political act"

referring to alleged intentions of Amazon to show how much of the price of items is tariffs. Why political? Why hostile? As far as I know many places clearly state what bit of prices are VAT or equivalent? Why does Trump want to hide this very essential information from the public?

[franky1]

Never said that. I said tariffs are paid by the US citizen, either by paying to import or by paying the exra of the local produce. Provided opinions by respected economists to which you provided a "Franky" "explanation" with what you call your DYOR and I call your DIY - AKA "reinventing the whell making sure is square"

most stuff people bought in the last 2 months were zero tariff as most stuff people bought was sub $800.. we have not even hit any large consequential tariff burden on consumers yet even upto today. however the 'de-minimis' expires tonight and shipments starting tomorrow will start to see the hits by tariffs if deals are not done soon

you however were screaming project fear, a project you learned from lame media. a project you did not do research to back up their fear or debunk

To that you said that the increase is small (and you made up a few numbers), that it can be done nearly immediately, that the US has the environment that allows a fast transiton,...

you keep confusing 'full raw material to retail ready good' production with 'import part + domestic assembly' production
trump does not want to close the borders and destroy the freeports. he doesnt want everything done domestically. he just wants better deals with international suppliers.. and businesses know this. and i told you this nearly 30 times in the last couple months.
i even gave you examples of even GM expanding its assembly which didnt even take much time at all nor huge cost..
yep even today GM is making more trucks than it did just 2 weeks ago

i gave you examples of businesses DOING IT. you gave examples of estimates and IF statements
you gave examples an economist saying tesla would take $10b and 2-3 years to set up full production.. i then showed you an example of tesla taking just 11 months

yet you didnt bother to check it out for yourself nor think for yourself. you instead just tried to find a lame media that echo'd the words you already learned and thought that if 2 lame media say the same thing it must be true,. and you just simply confirmation biased yourself instead of doing your own research to find the facts

businesses can and are setting up final assembly plants fast, and cheap compared to your silly examples of full production estimates(due to your confusion/confirmation bias)

I do not agree. The US has long ago lost all that environment (see Detroit to get a full grasp of how it went).

its YOU that cant grasp the way things will be going forward. you are still stuck in a weird mindset that trump wants to close the borders, destroy the freeports and have no dealings internationally, to do everything domestically. which would take years to accomplish... but your ideology/project fear campaign doesnt allow you to see whats actually happening nor the reason for the trade deals

as for amazon
well thats greedflation for them
as i said when people buy their iphone case and t-shirts from amazon (well under $800) if amazon are pretending that a $2 item now costs over $4. then thats amazon taking the profit but blaming trump tariffs
remember to look into the 'de-minimis' exemption that expires only on may 2nd so no goods of low cost previous to today have been hit by tariffs
and if countries make deals quick enough in next couple weeks before imported goods reach US shores(delivery usually takes a fortnight) then the hit wont be what project fear/amazon pretends

here is a challenge for you. check all the bookmarks of lame media you keep. and then do a search of their articles for the words:
deminimis de-minimis de minimis  (i thought id need to spell them out for you)
freeports free trade zones
PNTR MFN

and see how often your prefered lame media actually tries to educate you about the tariffs and trade deals and the background of economics involved

i have given you ample opportunities to learn these things. but now test yourself and see how often your favoured lame media has attempted to offer these words to you

[paxmao]

[...]
as for amazon
well thats greedflation for them
as i said when people buy their iphone case and t-shirts from amazon (well under $800) if amazon are pretending that a $2 item now costs over $4. then thats amazon taking the profit but blaming trump tariffs
remember to look into the 'de-minimis' exemption that expires only on may 2nd so no goods of low cost previous to today have been hit by tariffs
and if countries make deals quick enough in next couple weeks before imported goods reach US shores(delivery usually takes a fortnight) then the hit wont be what project fear/amazon pretends

here is a challenge for you. check all the bookmarks of lame media you keep. and then do a search of their articles for the words:
deminimis de-minimis de minimis  (i thought id need to spell them out for you)
freeports free trade zones
PNTR MFN

and see how often your prefered lame media actually tries to educate you about the tariffs and trade deals and the background of economics involved

I am not confusing the cost of materials with anything else. In fact, there was already a relief for auto-parts by the US government, because it takes them a month to figure out what anyone that is not MAGAbsorbed will see in two minutes.


On Amazon, so when something does not fit your narrative is because someone has obscure interests or is "greedy"? Let me give you some news: In markets, greed is always, greed is everywhere and greed is into all actors - buyers, sellers, advertisers, manufacturers...and the market dynamics account for it.

Nearly 100% of the Amazon products can be bought elsewhere at the touch of a mouse button. The moment the try to artificially inflate the prices, users fly, because in most products they simply can.

Now have a reality check of your "DIY" ideas: tariffs will be paid by consumers. Perhaps some of them will wake up from their MAGA high in time to prevent further damage.