Discussion between SolidCoin Founder and Gavin Andresen

[smoothie]

Given CoinHunter's egotistical behavior on the forums and on IRC, I can't fault ArtForz for attacking SolidCoin to try to put CoinHunter in his place.

That is such a shit argument for defending Art.  I think it is safe to say that there are just two wrongs that have been made and so people don't have to pick sides.   Art got shit on by CoinHunter, and instead of being a bigger person went on and fucked over other people based on one persons actions.

It's a new day. Get over the past and move on.

Thanks!

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[BitcoinPorn]

It's a new day. Get over the past and move on.

Pot kettle black etc

[johnj]

Given CoinHunter's egotistical behavior on the forums and on IRC, I can't fault ArtForz for attacking SolidCoin to try to put CoinHunter in his place.

That is such a shit argument for defending Art.  I think it is safe to say that there are just two wrongs that have been made and so people don't have to pick sides.   Art got shit on by CoinHunter, and instead of being a bigger person went on and fucked over other people based on one persons actions.

Or the alternative:

Art: Hey, here is an exploit, you should fix it
CH: Screw you fella!
***exploit remains active***
UNKNOWN: -attacks the chain even harder, causing a BIGGER issue-.

[coblee]

Given CoinHunter's egotistical behavior on the forums and on IRC, I can't fault ArtForz for attacking SolidCoin to try to put CoinHunter in his place.

That is such a shit argument for defending Art.  I think it is safe to say that there are just two wrongs that have been made and so people don't have to pick sides.   Art got shit on by CoinHunter, and instead of being a bigger person went on and fucked over other people based on one persons actions.

Now tell me how he "fucked over other people". It slowed down node processing of blocks. It wasn't even that slow. I remember CH/RS even boasted (don't remember forum or IRC) that even with this slow down, solidcoin is still confirming much faster than bitcoins. Sure, it crashed a few nodes due to the unintended transaction log growth. But this problem was quickly worked around by deleting the log files. All ArtForz did was to prove his point. Remember, his action did not cause the price of solidcoin to plummet. The price of solidcoin plummeted because CH/RS made a dick move to change the open source license. That was what "fucked over other people".

So ArtForz got shit on by CH/RS, and he performed a small attack to prove his point. Then CH/RS retaliated and pissed off everyone. I think what I heard recently on IRC summed this up perfectly: "don't piss on the heads of the giants whose shoulders you stand on"

[ArtForz]

A *bad* version of the attack could have looked like this:
Create one 1-input 10000-output transaction splitting 100.01 SC into 10000 * 0.01 SC + 0.01 fee (one output is ~35B, so only about 350kB or so). Submit it to other nodes and wait for it to get included into the chain.
While offline, create 10000 1-input 10000-output transactions, each spending one of those 0.01 and splitting it into 10000*0.00 + 0.01 fee (yes, that would have been a valid transaction!), collect all of them with a half-a-node or similar.
Inject those 10000 transactions (~350kB each) into the network at multiple points from machines with decent pipes (again, not too hard to do using half-a-node as a base).
Sit back and watch the show as nodes on the network try to cache and propagate 3.5GB of transactions.

[coblee]

Given CoinHunter's egotistical behavior on the forums and on IRC, I can't fault ArtForz for attacking SolidCoin to try to put CoinHunter in his place.

That is such a shit argument for defending Art.  I think it is safe to say that there are just two wrongs that have been made and so people don't have to pick sides.   Art got shit on by CoinHunter, and instead of being a bigger person went on and fucked over other people based on one persons actions.

Or the alternative:

Art: Hey, here is an exploit, you should fix it
CH: Screw you fella!
***exploit remains active***
UNKNOWN: -attacks the chain even harder, causing a BIGGER issue-.

Um, exactly. Here's an easy attack:
- Fork SolidCoin and modify code to ignore huge transactions and to perform the mining cartel attack.
- Put 60 GHash on mining SolidCoin using your modded code.
- Create thousands of these huge transactions in secret and release them at the same time.
- This will crash every single node due to out of memory issue. And if the nodes don't crash, they will be extremely slow to process blocks and transactions.
- Your 60 GHash will likely have 51% of the total mining power.
- While everyone else is picking up pieces, you are happily performing the mining cartel attack and raping solidcoin for its easy block rewards.

ArtForz is smart enough and has the resources to pull this off. Yet he didn't. He just released 71 transactions one at a time.

So yes, I think ArtForz did the right thing to bring this problem to the surface because CH/RS is too stupid to realize it's a problem and too full of himself to listen to others.

[BitcoinPorn]

Just out of curiosity, how possible or probable would this error have occurred naturally?  Or, do you all feel this might have just been found out by another user, and possibly not told to CoinHunter at all?

I will agree to disagree with you all on the issues regarding breaking other peoples programming for the sake of breaking it, as I know that isn't fully the reason, there was malicious intent as well and that sucks, but whatever.

[mizerydearia]

Let the cherrypicking begin:

<@RealSolid> gavinandresen: no not you but your other developers

"your" other developers?  gavinandresen has slaves?   O_O

<@RealSolid> gavinandresen: the SC network was attacked by one of your supporters/developers

Again, "your?"  Is bitcoin something that belongs to gavinandresen?  Even if gavinandresen is satoshi, the idea behind bitcoin (which is reimplemented in solidcoin) is just that, an idea, and it is widely recognized acceptably and therefore several human existences help to distribute, propagate and participate with the idea.  I don't think the idea belongs to any one individual even though there are human individuals behind the efforts related to continue developing and producing the idea more effortfully.


We're all individuals and generally want to help one another.  Hint: open source

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLci5DoZqHU