Trump's Tariffs Are BAD for Bitcoin

[john_egbert]

What do you call the "the end"? It affected Bitcoin and the whole market negatively, and that's what's important. We all know that the same thing won't always dictate the market, but we need to accept the fact that this market is pretty vulnerable to FUDs and stuff like what happened recently because whenever something happens, people react too quickly out of fear and that affects the market since the people make the market and it goes up and down based on their actions.

Another thing that adds fuel to the fire is the impatient nature of retail investors. Even though most of us understand that these dips and corrections are temporary, the price eventually recovers. When Bitcoin went to $74k, I knew it will be back to $84k in no time, but there are some people who don't think this way, they panic, and sell their assets and create chaos in the market, and that causes more damage.

I do think that he refers to the long-term perspective of BTC.

[franky1]

tariffs can affect the cost of mining hardware.. but this is for america...
america are not the cheapest country to mine so this means other countries without this trade war with china will get cheaper asics and mine cheaper than the US

the US however with a higher mining cost will stop mining as much when its time to upgrade hardware and if the market price is below their new (tariff induced) mining costs will just buy bitcoin on the market at a cheaper rate, this will cause the market price to rise

then other countries will get more profit for their cheaper mining and so they will upgrade hardware faster and more participants, due to their higher profits, this will shift mining away from the US UNLESS mining hardware is made in america.. or shipped into america via other countries without huge tariffs

however without america being competitive with mining, then other countries benefit, they then create higher competition and higher hashing cost which then raises the perceived cost of american mining which then raises the actual decision for americans to continue buying bitcoin at increasing market rates cheaper than mining

welcome to bitcoin economics

[pushups44]

tariffs can affect the cost of mining hardware.. but this is for america...
america are not the cheapest country to mine so this means other countries without this trade war with china will get cheaper asics and mine cheaper than the US

the US however with a higher mining cost will stop mining as much when its time to upgrade hardware and if the market price is below their new (tariff induced) mining costs will just buy bitcoin on the market at a cheaper rate, this will cause the market price to rise

then other countries will get more profit for their cheaper mining and so they will upgrade hardware faster and more participants, due to their higher profits, this will shift mining away from the US UNLESS mining hardware is made in america.. or shipped into america via other countries without huge tariffs

however without america being competitive with mining, then other countries benefit, they then create higher competition and higher hashing cost which then raises the perceived cost of american mining which then raises the actual decision for americans to continue buying bitcoin at increasing market rates cheaper than mining

welcome to bitcoin economics

This is a prescient post. I agree that BTC miners will be forced to leave the U.S. if Trump continues his tariff blustering, which contradicts the claim that he wants all BTC mining done in the U.S. It's highly unlikely that the U.S. will be able to make its own mining hardware anytime soon, but then again perhaps someone with more expertise can chime in.

[X-ray]

While an increase in tariffs could be justified, Trump is too extreme with the current rates.

It's too extreme and I agree.

But I think these tariff weren't meant to be imposed forever, hopefully it's just his weapon to negotiate and nothing more so that the world economy can recover again.

It seems he really want to curb the amount of trade deficit, enforcing other countries to also do something to make things balanced.

But can't deny it was pretty impactful in a bad way that I think it will leave scar to the economy for long, the biggest concern right now is USA ending its trade with China.

[franky1]

tariffs can affect the cost of mining hardware.. but this is for america...
america are not the cheapest country to mine so this means other countries without this trade war with china will get cheaper asics and mine cheaper than the US

the US however with a higher mining cost will stop mining as much when its time to upgrade hardware and if the market price is below their new (tariff induced) mining costs will just buy bitcoin on the market at a cheaper rate, this will cause the market price to rise

then other countries will get more profit for their cheaper mining and so they will upgrade hardware faster and more participants, due to their higher profits, this will shift mining away from the US UNLESS mining hardware is made in america.. or shipped into america via other countries without huge tariffs

however without america being competitive with mining, then other countries benefit, they then create higher competition and higher hashing cost which then raises the perceived cost of american mining which then raises the actual decision for americans to continue buying bitcoin at increasing market rates cheaper than mining

welcome to bitcoin economics

This is a prescient post. I agree that BTC miners will be forced to leave the U.S. if Trump continues his tariff blustering, which contradicts the claim that he wants all BTC mining done in the U.S. It's highly unlikely that the U.S. will be able to make its own mining hardware anytime soon, but then again perhaps someone with more expertise can chime in.

following the bitcoin cycles its become a known thing that bitcoin mining farms with their 2 year lifecycle(ROI plan) have certain deadlines of when to upgrade hardware
for instance 6 months before a halving and 2 years later (1.5 years after halving: oct 2025) this is when they price-in their costs and this moves the markets in those periods too.

its not quite time for asic farms to upgrade hardware so not a pressing issue in the "tariff 90day pause" period. however come autumn-winter is when they will want more efficient asics to cover the post-ATH correction period (the predicted cycle of the true bitcoin economics ATH time (1.5years after halving) (yep we have not yet experienced 2025's true ATH yet))

by this time trumps trade deals will have good partnerships with multiple cheap labour countries for parts and also have more US assembly plant capacity ready to put the cheap parts together as a 'us made' asic miner

bitmain which is usually cast as the "chinese" asic company, but actually has diversified alot over the years, heres one latest example to ease the minds (and mines)
https://bitbo.io/news/bitmain-us-production-launch/

seems bitmain smelled the trade tensions in the air mid-late 2024 and done something about it by december..

so although americans wont see too bad a deal (of needing to pay $52k for a 'chinese' asic at curent tariff costs), which costs $15k in other countries.. america will still not be the very cheapest most efficient country to mine from.. but thats ok america never was, and that was ok too. as it means if america are not mining at most cheapest(current value) $70k/btc minimum on planet, but instead at say $100k, the US will be the ones buying on the market when prices go below $100k as its cheaper to market acquire instead of mining acquire, which then supports the market price from de-escalating below $100k.

so when the ATH tests a ~$400kish+ top/ceiling. and then corrects, we shouldnt see $70k bottom again but a better supported $100k+ post ATH bottom

[FortuneFollower]

It's too extreme and I agree.

But I think these tariff weren't meant to be imposed forever, hopefully it's just his weapon to negotiate and nothing more so that the world economy can recover again.

It seems he really want to curb the amount of trade deficit, enforcing other countries to also do something to make things balanced.

But can't deny it was pretty impactful in a bad way that I think it will leave scar to the economy for long, the biggest concern right now is USA ending its trade with China.

Just as they were not good for the market, they will be good once we rebounce.

It's a clock that goes right and left, and we are currently awaiting on the positive push.. eventually.

[pushups44]

tariffs can affect the cost of mining hardware.. but this is for america...
america are not the cheapest country to mine so this means other countries without this trade war with china will get cheaper asics and mine cheaper than the US

the US however with a higher mining cost will stop mining as much when its time to upgrade hardware and if the market price is below their new (tariff induced) mining costs will just buy bitcoin on the market at a cheaper rate, this will cause the market price to rise

then other countries will get more profit for their cheaper mining and so they will upgrade hardware faster and more participants, due to their higher profits, this will shift mining away from the US UNLESS mining hardware is made in america.. or shipped into america via other countries without huge tariffs

however without america being competitive with mining, then other countries benefit, they then create higher competition and higher hashing cost which then raises the perceived cost of american mining which then raises the actual decision for americans to continue buying bitcoin at increasing market rates cheaper than mining

welcome to bitcoin economics

This is a prescient post. I agree that BTC miners will be forced to leave the U.S. if Trump continues his tariff blustering, which contradicts the claim that he wants all BTC mining done in the U.S. It's highly unlikely that the U.S. will be able to make its own mining hardware anytime soon, but then again perhaps someone with more expertise can chime in.

following the bitcoin cycles its become a known thing that bitcoin mining farms with their 2 year lifecycle(ROI plan) have certain deadlines of when to upgrade hardware
for instance 6 months before a halving and 2 years later (1.5 years after halving: oct 2025) this is when they price-in their costs and this moves the markets in those periods too.

its not quite time for asic farms to upgrade hardware so not a pressing issue in the "tariff 90day pause" period. however come autumn-winter is when they will want more efficient asics to cover the post-ATH correction period (the predicted cycle of the true bitcoin economics ATH time (1.5years after halving) (yep we have not yet experienced 2025's true ATH yet))

by this time trumps trade deals will have good partnerships with multiple cheap labour countries for parts and also have more US assembly plant capacity ready to put the cheap parts together as a 'us made' asic miner

bitmain which is usually cast as the "chinese" asic company, but actually has diversified alot over the years, heres one latest example to ease the minds (and mines)
https://bitbo.io/news/bitmain-us-production-launch/

seems bitmain smelled the trade tensions in the air mid-late 2024 and done something about it by december..

so although americans wont see too bad a deal (of needing to pay $52k for a 'chinese' asic at curent tariff costs), which costs $15k in other countries.. america will still not be the very cheapest most efficient country to mine from.. but thats ok america never was, and that was ok too. as it means if america are not mining at most cheapest(current value) $70k/btc minimum on planet, but instead at say $100k, the US will be the ones buying on the market when prices go below $100k as its cheaper to market acquire instead of mining acquire, which then supports the market price from de-escalating below $100k.

so when the ATH tests a ~$400kish+ top/ceiling. and then corrects, we shouldnt see $70k bottom again but a better supported $100k+ post ATH bottom

The problem I see here with this analysis is that Trump needs congressional approval before he allocates new funds to buy BTC, so he may be trying to work around that by using funds he already has access to - or in theory has access to - to purchase BTC to add to the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. What we've seen is that getting crypto policy in order - much less buying BTC - takes more time than many people initially thought. Similarly, shifting manufacturing to the U.S. will also take plenty of time, perhaps years or even decades in some industries. I thus highly doubt all of this can be achieved in the window of time you outlined. I do think, however, that Trump will be forced to carve out exceptions for the BTC miners in the U.S.

[Taskford]

While an increase in tariffs could be justified, Trump is too extreme with the current rates.

It's too extreme and I agree.

But I think these tariff weren't meant to be imposed forever, hopefully it's just his weapon to negotiate and nothing more so that the world economy can recover again.

It seems he really want to curb the amount of trade deficit, enforcing other countries to also do something to make things balanced.

But can't deny it was pretty impactful in a bad way that I think it will leave scar to the economy for long, the biggest concern right now is USA ending its trade with China.

He over exaggerate everything and think about country would just allow that it will happen easily.

I guess Trump just want those countries would come to him and settle up for some agreement that the US will benefit. But I guess that didn't happen since many countries are think about changing their trade path and other country like China wants to form an alliance to fight against tariff of US.

It will not only leave scar in the economy but provably will create more troubles in future.

[fikrett]

While an increase in tariffs could be justified, Trump is too extreme with the current rates.

It's too extreme and I agree.

But I think these tariff weren't meant to be imposed forever, hopefully it's just his weapon to negotiate and nothing more so that the world economy can recover again.

It seems he really want to curb the amount of trade deficit, enforcing other countries to also do something to make things balanced.

But can't deny it was pretty impactful in a bad way that I think it will leave scar to the economy for long, the biggest concern right now is USA ending its trade with China.

He over exaggerate everything and think about country would just allow that it will happen easily.

I guess Trump just want those countries would come to him and settle up for some agreement that the US will benefit. But I guess that didn't happen since many countries are think about changing their trade path and other country like China wants to form an alliance to fight against tariff of US.

It will not only leave scar in the economy but provably will create more troubles in future.

An art of the deal became an art of the bluff.

I do hope, though that all parties will find the right way to settle things up and everything is going to be fine going forward.

[franky1]

The problem I see here with this analysis is that Trump needs congressional approval before he allocates new funds to buy BTC, so he may be trying to work around that by using funds he already has access to - or in theory has access to - to purchase BTC to add to the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. What we've seen is that getting crypto policy in order - much less buying BTC - takes more time than many people initially thought. Similarly, shifting manufacturing to the U.S. will also take plenty of time, perhaps years or even decades in some industries. I thus highly doubt all of this can be achieved in the window of time you outlined. I do think, however, that Trump will be forced to carve out exceptions for the BTC miners in the U.S.

why do people keep saying it will take years to do anything
what silly news reporting do you subscribe to, which only inform you of fear and worse case mis-information
... decades.. pfft whatever sites you have bookmarked in your browser that tell you that tale, remove them from your favourites and get better more realistic sources

bitmain assembly plant is already in america
microBIT assembly plant is already in america
expansion/others can easily lease pre-build buildings at freeports, fill them with assembly machines from existing foreign factories within weeks shipment
and be up and running not in decades, not in years but much sooner

other asic brands exist which are also assembled/manufactured without chinese dependence

as for bitcoin strategic reserve
yes using treasury funding(tax) requires fed to do some bureaucratic hurdles in congress, but trump already said he isnt going to use tax money unless they get into a surplus/excess position via bringing debt down and spending efficiencies first.. so for now they are only moving 'forfeits of crime' collected coin to strategic reserve and possibilities are then any sales of Federal property (empty departments of education buildings, etc) they could use those funds to buy bitcoin

also state level can do purchasing and with the usual fiat shuffling they do to fund the fed they can instead filter bitcoin to the fed level strategic reserve instead of fiat

also institutions and businesses that have to follow regulations or need permits or licences could maybe pay they fee's, penalties, fines and costs via bitcoin. so there are many ways the fed can find ways to get more bitcoin without just confiscating bitcoin from criminals

[pushups44]

The problem I see here with this analysis is that Trump needs congressional approval before he allocates new funds to buy BTC, so he may be trying to work around that by using funds he already has access to - or in theory has access to - to purchase BTC to add to the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. What we've seen is that getting crypto policy in order - much less buying BTC - takes more time than many people initially thought. Similarly, shifting manufacturing to the U.S. will also take plenty of time, perhaps years or even decades in some industries. I thus highly doubt all of this can be achieved in the window of time you outlined. I do think, however, that Trump will be forced to carve out exceptions for the BTC miners in the U.S.

why do people keep saying it will take years to do anything
what silly news reporting do you subscribe to, which only inform you of fear and worse case mis-information
... decades.. pfft whatever sites you have bookmarked in your browser that tell you that tale, remove them from your favourites and get better more realistic sources

The U.S. does not have the workers Donald Trump needs to reshore manufacturing, though Bitcoin mining in theory - assuming the costs remain low - wouldn't seem to be a problem because it requires more technical know-how than most jobs. Even if the factories could be ready tomorrow, the U.S. has a problem in filling certain low-skill occupations. This is what I meant when I said reshoring manufacturing would be difficult for the U.S. - again, Bitcoin mining might be easier to fill depending on the salary and skill-set of the workers.

as for bitcoin strategic reserve
yes using treasury funding(tax) requires fed to do some bureaucratic hurdles in congress, but trump already said he isnt going to use tax money unless they get into a surplus/excess position via bringing debt down and spending efficiencies first.. so for now they are only moving 'forfeits of crime' collected coin to strategic reserve and possibilities are then any sales of Federal property (empty departments of education buildings, etc) they could use those funds to buy bitcoin

also state level can do purchasing and with the usual fiat shuffling they do to fund the fed they can instead filter bitcoin to the fed level strategic reserve instead of fiat

also institutions and businesses that have to follow regulations or need permits or licences could maybe pay they fee's, penalties, fines and costs via bitcoin. so there are many ways the fed can find ways to get more bitcoin without just confiscating bitcoin from criminals

I have noticed the U.S. - at both the federal and state levels - is a bit more bureaucratic than some of the maximalists had hoped. Perhaps the BTC purchases will start very soon this year - in that case, I'd be as happy as anyone.

[franky1]

The problem I see here with this analysis is that Trump needs congressional approval before he allocates new funds to buy BTC, so he may be trying to work around that by using funds he already has access to - or in theory has access to - to purchase BTC to add to the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. What we've seen is that getting crypto policy in order - much less buying BTC - takes more time than many people initially thought. Similarly, shifting manufacturing to the U.S. will also take plenty of time, perhaps years or even decades in some industries. I thus highly doubt all of this can be achieved in the window of time you outlined. I do think, however, that Trump will be forced to carve out exceptions for the BTC miners in the U.S.

why do people keep saying it will take years to do anything
what silly news reporting do you subscribe to, which only inform you of fear and worse case mis-information
... decades.. pfft whatever sites you have bookmarked in your browser that tell you that tale, remove them from your favourites and get better more realistic sources

The U.S. does not have the workers Donald Trump needs to reshore manufacturing, though Bitcoin mining in theory - assuming the costs remain low - wouldn't seem to be a problem because it requires more technical know-how than most jobs. Even if the factories could be ready tomorrow, the U.S. has a problem in filling certain low-skill occupations. This is what I meant when I said reshoring manufacturing would be difficult for the U.S. - again, Bitcoin mining might be easier to fill depending on the salary and skill-set of the workers.

these days things are done by robots and machines, all you need to know is when to press a button and when to not
you would be surprised that you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work in a factory

the chip designers sit in an office and draw the layout as a blueprint using latest software, however their office can be anywhere, they then scan the design into the fabricator and let the machines do their job
chip manufacturing is not as mystical as you think

as for assembly facilities. many ports pre-build empty warehouses ready to be leased out and so its not rocket science for a business to just lease a building fill it with the robots and machines and train some blue collar workers to do a certain task repeatedly on a production/assembly line

[pushups44]

The problem I see here with this analysis is that Trump needs congressional approval before he allocates new funds to buy BTC, so he may be trying to work around that by using funds he already has access to - or in theory has access to - to purchase BTC to add to the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve. What we've seen is that getting crypto policy in order - much less buying BTC - takes more time than many people initially thought. Similarly, shifting manufacturing to the U.S. will also take plenty of time, perhaps years or even decades in some industries. I thus highly doubt all of this can be achieved in the window of time you outlined. I do think, however, that Trump will be forced to carve out exceptions for the BTC miners in the U.S.

why do people keep saying it will take years to do anything
what silly news reporting do you subscribe to, which only inform you of fear and worse case mis-information
... decades.. pfft whatever sites you have bookmarked in your browser that tell you that tale, remove them from your favourites and get better more realistic sources

The U.S. does not have the workers Donald Trump needs to reshore manufacturing, though Bitcoin mining in theory - assuming the costs remain low - wouldn't seem to be a problem because it requires more technical know-how than most jobs. Even if the factories could be ready tomorrow, the U.S. has a problem in filling certain low-skill occupations. This is what I meant when I said reshoring manufacturing would be difficult for the U.S. - again, Bitcoin mining might be easier to fill depending on the salary and skill-set of the workers.

these days things are done by robots and machines, all you need to know is when to press a button and when to not
you would be surprised that you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work in a factory

This is not true - tens of millions of Chinese are involved in manufacturing that gets exported to the U.S. Overwhelmingly, most manufacturing in the U.S. requires substantial human involvement, even if robotics is involved. With regard to chip-making, it's quite obvious that robots would be required for the manufacture of micro- or nanochips, but substantial human involvement is still required. Again, this is conflating chip-making with manufacturing more broadly. In virtually all of the manufacuring today, human involvement is still significantly required.

[franky1]

you the one conflating manufacturing in general with assembly lines of the final stage of asic production

again there seems to be a silly myth going on that it takes 5-10 years and dozens of billions of dollars to do anything in america..
sorry to inform you but please delete your news media bookmarks informing you of this and instead research deeper at actual real actions happening

lets take tesla as a prime example.. i made a response to someone sounding like your dystopia of timescales and costs.. and shown him how he was wrong by showing how it didnt take years, didnt take tens of billions and didnt need thousands of workers. but broke ground and then had opening ceremoney with first car off production line in 11 months
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5536486.msg65288337#msg65288337
and that was for a full production plant, thus assembly plant only would be faster and cheaper

also there is GM whom wanted to expand its US truck production and again not billions, but instead just a few days downtime(22-25th april) add some extra equipment and train 250 new recruits and now their production has increased
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/gm-increase-us-truck-production-following-trumps-tariffs-2025-04-03/


and as already said bitmain and microbit are already in the US making asics
yes america wont beat foreign bitcoin mining costs but the dystopian worse case of decades of setting up and billions and all such nonsense is just exaggerated drama sold as clickbait to make people afraid and then want to read more so media can collect more viewing time ad revenue

[The Cryptovator]

Why do you think Trump's tariff is bad for Bitcoin? Does the tariff relate to Bitcoin, actually? If not, then it shouldn't be bad for Bitcoin, actually. But we know investors are quite emotional. They hear too many rumours, so due to tariffs, they might panic somehow and not invest in Bitcoin. But it won't affect us for long; everything will be normal again.

We know when we increase tariffs, ultimately it will affect US citizens. Because when a company exports any product to the US, they have to pay a higher tariff, which means the product price will be increased. The price has to be paid by US citizens. So the company exporting to the US has nothing to pay from their pockets. But it would reduce the sale definitely, but it's not related to Bitcoin anyway. It's just all about emotions and psychology. It should normalise within a few days or months.

[pushups44]

you the one conflating manufacturing in general with assembly lines of the final stage of asic production

again there seems to be a silly myth going on that it takes 5-10 years and dozens of billions of dollars to do anything in america..
sorry to inform you but please delete your news media bookmarks informing you of this and instead research deeper at actual real actions happening

lets take tesla as a prime example.. i made a response to someone sounding like your dystopia of timescales and costs.. and shown him how he was wrong by showing how it didnt take years, didnt take tens of billions and didnt need thousands of workers. but broke ground and then had opening ceremoney with first car off production line in 11 months
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5536486.msg65288337#msg65288337
and that was for a full production plant, thus assembly plant only would be faster and cheaper

also there is GM whom wanted to expand its US truck production and again not billions, but instead just a few days downtime(22-25th april) add some extra equipment and train 250 new recruits and now their production has increased
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/gm-increase-us-truck-production-following-trumps-tariffs-2025-04-03/


and as already said bitmain and microbit are already in the US making asics
yes america wont beat foreign bitcoin mining costs but the dystopian worse case of decades of setting up and billions and all such nonsense is just exaggerated drama sold as clickbait to make people afraid and then want to read more so media can collect more viewing time ad revenue

Lemme get this straight... I asserted getting manufacturing in the U.S. would take years for many industries, particularly in the context of tariffs, and you used the construction and opening of a Tesla factory in China as an example? Make that make sense. We are talking about opening plants in the U.S., using raw materials and making electronic components in the U.S. If you believe it can be done in a year or less, that's your prerogative - but please let's use examples within the U.S. and not China.

Then you used the example of a U.S. automaker that already makes vehicles in the U.S. (with half of trucks made in the U.S., according to the article cited) increasing production in the U.S. You did not use an example of a manufacturer currently highly dependent on foreign labor reshoring their production in the U.S. within a year, and keeping costs steady or reducing them, in the context of tariffs.

[franky1]

my assertions were that you were probably getting time/cost of building facilities information from the same lame media "experts" that scream "tens of billions of dollars" and "years to decades" just to build facilities..
my assertions were the same lame media you are probably reading fear stories from are the ones that want to say that things done in last 10-100day will affect america for a dacade to come.. (project fear)

my assertions are that it takes less time than the lame-media's "experts".. because REALITY IS that there is more than one way to do things.

my assertions are that its NOT a situation in reality that the only option is buy and incur huge tariffs from china because china is only manufacturer or wait years-decades without any product

my assertions are that other countries also produce chips and asics ALREADY
my assertions are that expanding such production does not require years-decades and can be done faster smarter and cheaper in multiple ways
my assertions are that some ways are "assembly only" facilities and get chips from a multitude of countrys that are not china
my asertions are that although individuals get finished retail-ready goods via normal customs ports. some companies can use freeports for co-production across the borders without tariffs on non-retail-sold parts

my assertions are that although america will never be the cheapest mining cost on the planet and never has. it too wont be the most expensive
my assertions are that its ok that america never has nor never will be most cheapest mining cost. that it actually helps support a non zero bottom market price due to this

You did not use an example of a manufacturer currently highly dependent on foreign labor reshoring their production in the U.S. within a year, and keeping costs steady or reducing them, in the context of tariffs.

cough bitmain cough

[pushups44]

my assertions were that you were probably getting time/cost of building facilities information from the same lame media "experts" that scream "tens of billions of dollars" and "years to decades" just to build facilities..
my assertions were the same lame media you are probably reading fear stories from are the ones that want to say that things done in last 10-100day will affect america for a dacade to come.. (project fear)

Your assertions are vague, non-specific, and personal, as if you masochistically enjoy getting posterized in a debate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posterized

my assertions are that it takes less time than the lame-media's "experts".. because REALITY IS that there is more than one way to do things.

Yes, you have made assertions, but you have failed to support them through evidence. Your cherry-picking of information is arbitrary and you fail to take into account basic facts to support your confirmation bias. As an example, you used the construction of a plant by Tesla in China to prove how fast a plant could be built in the U.S. - with tariffs in place for raw materials and electronic components. This is like pointing to a world-class sprinter and using his performance to gauge the potential speed of a hurdler or marathon runner. You are not controlling for variables.

my assertions are that other countries also produce chips and asics ALREADY
my assertions are that expanding such production does not require years-decades and can be done faster smarter and cheaper in multiple ways
my assertions are that some ways are "assembly only" facilities and get chips from a multitude of countrys that are not china
my asertions are that although individuals get finished retail-ready goods via normal customs ports. some companies can use freeports for co-production across the borders without tariffs on non-retail-sold parts

You have made many assertions and only offered two pitiful links that do not support your wild claims.

cough bitmain cough

Bitmain having a production line in the U.S. - established before the recent tariffs - is hardly evidence that manufacturing will be brought back to the U.S. within a year. Unlike you, I have cited an industry insider (in a related thread) discussing how tariffs will destroy the already tight margins of BTC miners in the U.S. You, on the other hand, seem to rapidly change the subject, throwing new alleged facts, arguing points that are not being argued, and then insisting that you have proven that manufacturing will arrive and be set up in the U.S. within a year. Again, you are posterized.

[franky1]

Bitmain having a production line in the U.S. - established before the recent tariffs - is hardly evidence that manufacturing will be brought back to the U.S. within a year. Unlike you, I have cited an industry insider (in a related thread) discussing how tariffs will destroy the already tight margins of BTC miners in the U.S. You, on the other hand, seem to rapidly change the subject, throwing new alleged facts, arguing points that are not being argued, and then insisting that you have proven that manufacturing will arrive and be set up in the U.S. within a year. Again, you are posterized.

YOU think manufacturing is all done in china
YOU think the high tariffs will kill bitcoin in america
YOU think that asic manufacturing should be "??brought back??" to the USA



but yet again i need to tell you. it.. so lets make it short:
it didnt begin with america, then america lost it
asic manufacturers already made moves
its already in america.
it can expand quite quickly too

ok chap
you continue with china fear from your lame media that it will take billions and years-decades..  and just ignore that asic manufacturers already moved away from chinese dependence, .. let the lame media ignorance shine brightly through you

i was actually trying to get you to think beyond the confines of the lame media narrow view of bitcoin economics.. but you instead just took offence that i didnt just re-iterate something you read nor appeased you in glory for saying something you just read without deep thought

enjoy your fear and panic. please continue to circle jerk the fear media propaganda
meanwhile smarter people who actually do mine and market acquire bitcoin, will continue on as usual..
this is not our first market cycle this is not our first trade war, this is not the first time we had media screaming chinese threats
heck i remember paying a tariff for my asic back as far as 2014.. so yea.. [yawn not new]

we will mine, we will play the markets, but you just sit there continuing to argue but ignore actually reading

give it some time, maybe you will be ready to think beyond the narrow confines of the fear propaganda to realise there is more then one way to be profitable in bitcoin acquisition and also many ways to establish, expand and produce asics away from china and how to do things not just full production but also just assembly in america quite rapidly.. but i dont expect much too soon with your attitude, which is to ignore hints that can expand your mind outside the rhetoric you read..

by the time your ready to look at reality that asic mining is not "china dependant" everyone else would have been ahead of you and wondering why it took you so long

so have a nice year, oops i mean fearful decade

[pooya87]

Note that this will only be the short term end. If the whole structure of civilization collapses, Bitcoin will go down with fiat.

That is a weird thing to say! Civilization doesn't collapse that easily specially when we talk about it globally which we should since we are talking about bitcoin which is global. It can collapse in one country in a small part of the world but not globally.

Additionally bitcoin doesn't rely on fiat to collapse when it collapses. In fact because Bitcoin is the only money in existence (everything else is currency) and it is stand alone, it would skyrocket if the fiat system were to collapse.