eXch is closing. What are the alternatives?

[coupable]

I actually wanted to test basicswap.
I've been trying to install it for several days, unsuccessful!
I created a thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5541678.0
So since I can't try basicswap myself, I ask here if anyone has experience with it?

Despite the good reviews/ratings for BasicSwap, I kept reading about users having difficulty installing the software. This led me to conclude that the program isn't ready for mainstream adoption yet. I also encountered the same issue installing the software on Windows and assumed the issue was with my operating system, and that Linux was definitely more efficient.

[mastertrader_]

There is a swapper aggregator called Trocador. This is very popular in the Monero community to exchange to Monero.

You can also use this to exchange to Solana, Ethereum, Litecoin and stablecoins. This platform will choose the best rates, show you the speed of the exchange and the risk rating of the exchange based on the KYC policy.

https://trocador.app/en/

I am glad that someone has mentioned Trocador! I use this service, it is convenient to compare exchange rates different exchangers offer at the moment I want to make a swap. They also have their own "Privacy rating" that's helpful when choosing an exchanging service.

This unknown and shady Quickex can't be compared with eXch. While eXch is highly recommended, Quickex should be highly avoided. The mere fact that the latter requires KYC means they're total opposites.

By the way, Trocador is where I found out about Quickex. I exchange ETH to XMR quite often, and exactly Quickex offers the best rate for this kind of swaps at the moment. They don't have the best "Privacy rating" though it does not matter too much since Trocador insures the deposit and also helps to deal with any kind of issues that occur during the swap.

[mastertrader_]

As long as an exchange has a centralized piece which can be attacked by the government, it will be attacked.

What we need isn’t an exch alternative.

We need a bisq alternative.

Why?

I am not saying bisq is total crap but It is obvious that bisq is not as popular as exch. The reason is simple. Exch is faster and simpler.

So the idea becomes clearer.

We need a bisq alternative that works fast  and simple  like exch.

Every other exch alternative that has a domain name will be gone in the long term.

eXch was by far the most reliable and convenient swapping service to use, I think in shouldn't be compared to bisq.
My opinion is that in the nearest future we won't see any eXch alternative that will be as good as eXch was

[BenCodie]

eXch was by far the most reliable and convenient swapping service to use, I think in shouldn't be compared to bisq.
My opinion is that in the nearest future we won't see any eXch alternative that will be as good as eXch was

Agreed, exch is not the same user experience as bisq. exch was a lot more convenient generally.

There'll be an alternative to exch, and decentralized solutions will present themselves over the coming months and years. For now, we wait for builders to build.

There is a swapper aggregator called Trocador. This is very popular in the Monero community to exchange to Monero.

You can also use this to exchange to Solana, Ethereum, Litecoin and stablecoins. This platform will choose the best rates, show you the speed of the exchange and the risk rating of the exchange based on the KYC policy.

https://trocador.app/en/

I am glad that someone has mentioned Trocador! I use this service, it is convenient to compare exchange rates different exchangers offer at the moment I want to make a swap. They also have their own "Privacy rating" that's helpful when choosing an exchanging service.

This unknown and shady Quickex can't be compared with eXch. While eXch is highly recommended, Quickex should be highly avoided. The mere fact that the latter requires KYC means they're total opposites.

By the way, Trocador is where I found out about Quickex. I exchange ETH to XMR quite often, and exactly Quickex offers the best rate for this kind of swaps at the moment. They don't have the best "Privacy rating" though it does not matter too much since Trocador insures the deposit and also helps to deal with any kind of issues that occur during the swap.

While Trocador is a useful service, a lot of the exchanges listed there now are what I'd consider medium risk, and this post somewhat proves this point:

There is a swapper aggregator called Trocador. This is very popular in the Monero community to exchange to Monero.

You can also use this to exchange to Solana, Ethereum, Litecoin and stablecoins. This platform will choose the best rates, show you the speed of the exchange and the risk rating of the exchange based on the KYC policy.

https://trocador.app/en/

I got scammed by FixedFloat recently, and Trocador did nothing to help. Even not honoring their service guarantee despite the fact that FixedFloat clearly violated their own ToS: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5541660

But for me it is quite big for the minimum deposit (0.002 BTC) less than that the funds will be lost.
I just want to try with a smaller deposit.

I'm also looking for smaller minimums as I tend to have these use cases.

At the moment, there's an exchange that piqued my interest. They have a low minimum during my check:



Exolix - They have the typical KYC/AML policies on their platform but OrangeFren is claiming guaranteed never-kyc for OF users.

Honestly, what do you all think about such claim? On Exolix, they'll probably make us agree to their TOS that includes typical KYC/AML policies. But OrangeFren is reputed and Exolix has $5K OF guaranteed funds on them so might be worth jumping the gun with smaller amounts? 🤔

Swapuz is a ChangeNOW reseller, and they also run another site called Exolix, which similarly resells ChangeNOW’s services.

If you look at the Swapuz Terms of Service from February 2022 (archived here = https://web.archive.org/web/20220213142831/swapuz.com/assets/index.223d937f.js), you’ll find direct references to Exolix. This connection was public knowledge for a while, and both Swapuz and Exolix were listed on Kyc Not Me until someone mentioned off the Kyc Not Me admin about this relationship. As a result, Swapuz was promptly removed from the Kyc Not Me listings.

Despite being caught, representatives from both Swapuz and Exolix have continued to deny any connection between the two platforms. They maintain this stance in public, even though their link was exposed due to a fairly basic oversight.

Given their reluctance to be transparent about their relationship, it’s wise to be cautious and perhaps avoid using either service until they openly acknowledge their connection.

There was also a notable thread on Bitcointalk (⚠️⚠️ 300M+ Ongoing Biggest Crypto Scam LEAK [Changelly & Freewallet and more] ⚠️ = https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5499189), which investigated ChangeNOW and its network of related projects-allegedly operated with forged documents.

Exolix was mentioned as part of this network, raising even more questions about its background and trustworthiness.

I would not suggest you to use them.

Is there anything conclusive on Exolix being affiliated with Changelly/Changenow and so on? I've used exolix with no issues or KYC requests. I'm not endorsing the use of it, though I haven't had issues...and an archived js file with exolix's tos (which swapuz puts on their page afaik?) isn't quite enough to definitively tie them both together.

Also, kycnot.me still have exolix on their website. It hasn't been removed.

[mastertrader_]

snip

On Swapuz and Exolix they overestimated the exchange rates by 1%, as fas as I know they even were delisted from Orangefren because of it.

IMO, Quickex offers the most decent rates at the moment, at least for ETH-XMR swaps on Trocador. I checked on OrangeFren, they are also listed there. Personally, I use Trocador or exchange directly.

[BenCodie]

snip

On Swapuz and Exolix they overestimated the exchange rates by 1%, as fas as I know they even were delisted from Orangefren because of it.

IMO, Quickex offers the most decent rates at the moment, at least for ETH-XMR swaps on Trocador. I checked on OrangeFren, they are also listed there. Personally, I use Trocador or exchange directly.

Swapuz and Exolix are two different services. First, it was said that exolix was related to changelly/the change, now you say they were over estimating rates.

Do you have any relationship with Quickex? You seem to be shilling it a lot in this thread, and on top of that, spreading misinformation about other services.

For those who are privacy concerned, Trocador only validates to use Exolix or WizardSwap. Quickex has a KYC rating of C (meaning more likely to freeze due to KYC) and requires your IP to be logged with Trocador if you use it, while Exolix does not require IP logging and has a KYC rating of B (meaning less likely to freeze for KYC than Quickex).

Based on Trocador's assessment alone, Exolix seems to be a more privacy friendly and safer option than Quickex.

[UmerIdrees]

I am worried that exchangers are going to be treated as international pariahs in the same way that mixers and Coinjoins are already cast by the media. And the cryptobros crowd will just eat up the narrative because they only care about coinmarketcap, memecoins, making money, etc, etc whatever is trending.

I don't think that would be the case with exchanges. The main difference between the mixers and the exchanges is that most of the exchanges are KYC compliant, so they would not face such issues. Yes, there are few that are operating without KYC but until something is suspected of them like the hack funds being moved to those exchanges and move out, i don't think there is any need to worry about them.

I do feel that eXch was a great service but then there are always some bad actors who exploit the good services.  

[examplens]

Swapuz is a ChangeNOW reseller, and they also run another site called Exolix, which similarly resells ChangeNOW’s services.

If you look at the Swapuz Terms of Service from February 2022 (archived here = https://web.archive.org/web/20220213142831/swapuz.com/assets/index.223d937f.js), you’ll find direct references to Exolix. This connection was public knowledge for a while, and both Swapuz and Exolix were listed on Kyc Not Me until someone mentioned off the Kyc Not Me admin about this relationship. As a result, Swapuz was promptly removed from the Kyc Not Me listings.

Is this the only reference that these two services are connected?
To me, this looks like Swapuz copied the ToS page from Exolix, but they didn't exchange all the parts and rewrite Exolix->Swapuz.

I'm not sure anymore, but weren't they ^Swapuz tagged as "never KYC" on Orangefren until recently?

[DiMarxist]

I don't have if Cryptomus is still on existence and if it is working you can check it out. It is "Cryptomus" they were active a active campaign in this forum and even though they don't have it again I believed they can still serve your purpose.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I don't have if Cryptomus is still on existence and if it is working you can check it out. It is "Cryptomus" they were active a active campaign in this forum and even though they don't have it again I believed they can still serve your purpose.

Last month I used Cryptomus, they are still alive and thriving LOL

Cryptomus and eXch are two different type of exchanges. Cryptomus are more like mainstream exchanges like Binance. Where eXch are the type of exchanges who do not save logs of their clients, they do not ask for KYC too.

[Pmalek]

Looks kyc free
https://tradeogre.com/terms

But I am not sure how trusted it is. Never saw them on the forum. Have you ever used it?

kycnot.me also reports that it's a centralized exchange without KYC.

There are some warning, though. Tradeogre can block transactions if they are suspicious to them. Meaning, there is some type of taint analysis. kycnot also mentions their refund policy is unclear. I would have to check the TOS in detail to learn more about it. User accounts could be closed or you could be limited if they don't like what you are doing. That surely also depends on the source of your funds. Finally, the exchange can share data about you with law enforcement and government agencies.

[bitmover]

Looks kyc free
https://tradeogre.com/terms

But I am not sure how trusted it is. Never saw them on the forum. Have you ever used it?

kycnot.me also reports that it's a centralized exchange without KYC.

There are some warning, though. Tradeogre can block transactions if they are suspicious to them. Meaning, there is some type of taint analysis. kycnot also mentions their refund policy is unclear. I would have to check the TOS in detail to learn more about it. User accounts could be closed or you could be limited if they don't like what you are doing. That surely also depends on the source of your funds. Finally, the exchange can share data about you with law enforcement and government agencies.

And more and more services are getting their addresses tainted..

As address reuse is a common forum practice, many users may have many utxo tainted after the exch case.

[Pmalek]

And more and more services are getting their addresses tainted..

As address reuse is a common forum practice, many users may have many utxo tainted after the exch case.

It's also a testing opportunity. Those who have crypto that came directly from eXch exchange can test other services that claim to be no KYC and not requiring AML and SoF checks. It's a great way to check if they will allow you to execute swaps or freeze your crypto and demand that you provide them with all sorts of information and documents. And in case you refuse, will you get a refund or will the money remain in their hands until you comply.

[examplens]

And more and more services are getting their addresses tainted..

As address reuse is a common forum practice, many users may have many utxo tainted after the exch case.

It's also a testing opportunity. Those who have crypto that came directly from eXch exchange can test other services that claim to be no KYC and not requiring AML and SoF checks. It's a great way to check if they will allow you to execute swaps or freeze your crypto and demand that you provide them with all sorts of information and documents. And in case you refuse, will you get a refund or will the money remain in their hands until you comply.

I tested a couple of services, or at least tried. Here's what it looks like

Exolix.com:
At first, it was a bit confusing. First, I got the answer that they don't do an AML check before sending coins, but in the end, they confirmed that they have such an option. Their check showed that the total risk of my address is 37%.
Their answer did not convince me that my funds are safe with them in terms of freezing or that they will ask for KYC at some point.

support team says:In this case, everything depends on the specific exchange deposit (translated)
support team says:At the moment the address does not have extremely high risk cases (translated)

Octoswap.io:
There is something different here, something more efficient communication. They checked the addresses from which I would send coins, and their analysis said an 80% risk score  
They claim to never freeze funds or require KYC, but they can charge an extra up to 3% for such funds.
I didn't go into the exchange process because the minimum is $600, but the platform is still unfinished, and I encountered a lot of bugs there. It seemed like too much of a risk. Plus, they are new on the market


swapuz.com:
They responded to the chat request very quickly. I did not receive any info about the AML score, but they immediately confirmed that there would be no problem with the funds. They also directly confirmed that in case of a too risky AML score, coins will be refunded.
I did a few swaps here, and everything went smoothly.

Xchange.me:
Earlier, I contacted their admin via telegram (for some other reason), and I got a reply after a long time, >24h. Too long for support from one instant exchange
I gave up on them this time because the minimum is 0.01 BTC, and that was too much for me to risk and test.

edit: Updated service name with domain extension to avoid misrecognition.

[bitmover]

swapuz:
They responded to the chat request very quickly. I did not receive any info about the AML score, but they immediately confirmed that there would be no problem with the funds. They also directly confirmed that in case of a too risky AML score, coins will be refunded.
I did a few swaps here, and everything went smoothly.

I will probably use them as well soon... I didn't think much about it since what happened to exch.

[examplens]

I will probably use them as well soon... I didn't think much about it since what happened to exch.

Be sure to contact them (like any new service for us) before any action, and let them check your address on their side.
Also, only smaller amounts if there is damage, let it be as small as possible. It's a good thing that the fee is currently low, so one or two orders don't make too much of a difference.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

I would never trust or rely too much on the words of low-level customer support personnel. They will tell you all the sweet things you want to hear or forget to mention what you don't want to hear. The only thing that matters is what is written in their terms, not to mention AML and privacy policies. If there is a separate AML policy document, your questions regarding KYC and other checks are answered.

What is surprising is that they were willing to scan and analyze your addresses and coins for "risk" and "taint." I haven't heard that before. Try to get them to say what third party they use for that analysis. I doubt they will, though.

[mastertrader_]

Swapuz and Exolix are two different services. First, it was said that exolix was related to changelly/the change, now you say they were over estimating rates.

Do you have any relationship with Quickex? You seem to be shilling it a lot in this thread, and on top of that, spreading misinformation about other services.

For those who are privacy concerned, Trocador only validates to use Exolix or WizardSwap. Quickex has a KYC rating of C (meaning more likely to freeze due to KYC) and requires your IP to be logged with Trocador if you use it, while Exolix does not require IP logging and has a KYC rating of B (meaning less likely to freeze for KYC than Quickex).

Based on Trocador's assessment alone, Exolix seems to be a more privacy friendly and safer option than Quickex.

I just share information I found about Swapuz and Exolix. Of course, they're distinct services, and my intention wasn't to blur the lines there.

I don't work for Quickex, but I've had positive experiences using them, and wanted to highlight them as an option for rate checking (as you mentioned getting different rates). I will clarify my posts in the future to not appear as if promoting one service over another. I just wanted to give context as to why you may see higher/lower rates across certain aggregators and swaps.

It seems that regardless of the security rating, if you make an exchange through Trocador, the IP address will be saved. Again, nothing prevents you from using a proxy.

[mastertrader_]

<Snip>

I would never trust or rely too much on the words of low-level customer support personnel. They will tell you all the sweet things you want to hear or forget to mention what you don't want to hear. The only thing that matters is what is written in their terms, not to mention AML and privacy policies. If there is a separate AML policy document, your questions regarding KYC and other checks are answered.

What is surprising is that they were willing to scan and analyze your addresses and coins for "risk" and "taint." I haven't heard that before. Try to get them to say what third party they use for that analysis. I doubt they will, though.

It's definitely best to rely on the written terms and policies, especially the AML and privacy policies. What the customer support tells you can sometimes be unreliable, even if they're well-intentioned. I also always take screenshots of important messages when I chat with support of different services, just in case they decide to go back on their words.

It's worth trying to find out what third-party service they're using for that analysis, although I doubt they'll disclose that information.

[Pmalek]

What the customer support tells you can sometimes be unreliable, even if they're well-intentioned. I also always take screenshots of important messages when I chat with support of different services, just in case they decide to go back on their words.

It doesn't hurt to do that but it doesn't help much. Those agents have their supervisors and above them are other managers. What the lower-level staff tells you can turn out to be wrong if the TOS state otherwise. Even if you complain and provide proof of their words with screenshots, you might receive a response where you are informed that the support agents were wrong or they didn't know the correct workflow.