TwentyOne Capital: The next MicroStrategy?

[slaman29]

So from that statement alone, it's not like the next MicroStrategy, it's just like the next BitGo or even the next Binance minus trading. And with license or regulated permits (different from Binance).

So, not a stacker. But doing all the things a finance company does, but I guess using BTC as a backing?

[Free Market Capitalist]

So from that statement alone, it's not like the next MicroStrategy, it's just like the next BitGo or even the next Binance minus trading. And with license or regulated permits (different from Binance).

So, not a stacker. But doing all the things a finance company does, but I guess using BTC as a backing?

You completely misunderstood what this is about. It's a StrategyBTC copy but try to have a better strategy, or at least that's how they sell it (I don't believe it).

The base will be the 42,000 bitcoins that they will have at the beginning and those that they will be acquiring. From there they will offer products such as convertible debt, shares and other products, as StrategyBTC does.

What I am curious to see is if Mallers, with the background they have with LN will bring out new products, which StrategyBTC does not have, based on LN.

It's hard to understand these types of companies for the average person.

[OcTradism]

What I am curious to see is if Mallers, with the background they have with LN will bring out new products, which StrategyBTC does not have, based on LN.

It's hard to understand these types of companies for the average person.

He has background and experience with Lightning Network but with several concerns about LN weakness, there is chance of his movement towards other solutions on side chains.

There are more side chain developments and solutions and hopefully Mallers and other business entrepreneurs in this industry will scale them up more.
Sidechain Observer - Bitcoin L2 Projects & current state of development

[tread93]

I think that the need for custodial and educational programs will only grow in demand due to institutional investments into the space. It's nice to see that strategy has started a trend betr but they may never be as big as them, however applying their method you can only imagine that it will be a successful enterprise.

[slaman29]

You completely misunderstood what this is about. It's a StrategyBTC copy but try to have a better strategy, or at least that's how they sell it (I don't believe it).

The base will be the 42,000 bitcoins that they will have at the beginning and those that they will be acquiring. From there they will offer products such as convertible debt, shares and other products, as StrategyBTC does.

What I am curious to see is if Mallers, with the background they have with LN will bring out new products, which StrategyBTC does not have, based on LN.

It's hard to understand these types of companies for the average person.

Ah ok I actually didn't know Strategy also does those products, I honestly thought all they did was buy and hodl, because all the news I ever read was about Saylor and saying how much he has. Definitely than more similar to a financial institution that provides products like loans, shares. Different ways of using the collateral.

I remember in school when our economics teacher taught us how banks can turn a hard $100 deposit into $1000 value of loans, debt, assets, etc. Funny these companies are about to do the same with BTC.

[qurbanshah02]

I think that the need for custodial and educational programs will only grow in demand due to institutional investments into the space. It's nice to see that strategy has started a trend betr but they may never be as big as them, however applying their method you can only imagine that it will be a successful enterprise.

There are other great benefits of it which we see in our daily life which are also visible with our life but its major role is towards space so that is why this whole system is running so we can call it an important point. Obviously when someone is happy with something then he gets happiness but there are also losses which are not bearable. This is what can happen because what they are learning about is very important only to follow its path but it depends only on it which sees us in a different way.

[OgNasty]

I like that Jack said 21 will outperform Strategy because they are actually going to have revenue producing businesses instead of a money losing company stacking BTC. That makes it seem like they can actually outperform especially when you consider how much smaller they are to start. I didn’t think we’d see competition in this space. An interesting development.

[ultrloa]

I like that Jack said 21 will outperform Strategy because they are actually going to have revenue producing businesses instead of a money losing company stacking BTC. That makes it seem like they can actually outperform especially when you consider how much smaller they are to start. I didn’t think we’d see competition in this space. An interesting development.

Well that's long way to go and for sure they know that the institution they try to out perform is already well established company that has been tested for many years of challenges and they remain standing strong.

Hopefully they didn't say that just to get media mileage and get attention of future investors that might get attracted on everything they say. But its still really good that we have see them coming up with plans to focus on Bitcoin since somehow competition on accumulation on Bitcoin is really great for Bitcoin ecosystem.

And I'm also excited to see their future accumulation post just like what Microstrategy did after they accumulate their Bitcoins.

[OgNasty]

I like that Jack said 21 will outperform Strategy because they are actually going to have revenue producing businesses instead of a money losing company stacking BTC. That makes it seem like they can actually outperform especially when you consider how much smaller they are to start. I didn’t think we’d see competition in this space. An interesting development.

Well that's long way to go and for sure they know that the institution they try to out perform is already well established company that has been tested for many years of challenges and they remain standing strong.

Hopefully they didn't say that just to get media mileage and get attention of future investors that might get attracted on everything they say. But its still really good that we have see them coming up with plans to focus on Bitcoin since somehow competition on accumulation on Bitcoin is really great for Bitcoin ecosystem.

And I'm also excited to see their future accumulation post just like what Microstrategy did after they accumulate their Bitcoins.

I think it probably isn't as far away as you think.  Strategy's "strategy" of buying Bitcoin is honestly idiotic and can only lead to them inevitably being liquidated at some point or charged with some sort of financial crime if they aren't.  So all Jack really has to do is not touch leverage and his company will win long term.  Saylor is using leverage and buying tops, which seems smart when the market goes up...  Markets are smarter than greedy men though.  This market will go only as high as it takes to get Saylor's position overleveraged to where the actual big boys in global finance (who may not have even entered the space sufficiently yet and who's entrance will likely cause the coming bubble) can sell and liquidate him.  That will likely be what kicks off the bear market of 2027 if you ask me.  Maybe he'll be saved this cycle by the US Government buying, but I am confident that at some point in the possibly distant future (maybe 2 years, maybe 10 years) Strategy will be liquidated and cause the mother of all Bitcoin crashes.

[nelson4lov]

I just read this and the only key takeaway for me is that accumulating bitcoin as a retail/individual investor is now important more than ever. The cooperate firms that would indulge full-fledged Bitcoin stacking campaigns won't end with Microstrategy or TwentyOne Capital.

[JayJuanGee]

I like that Jack said 21 will outperform Strategy because they are actually going to have revenue producing businesses instead of a money losing company stacking BTC. That makes it seem like they can actually outperform especially when you consider how much smaller they are to start. I didn’t think we’d see competition in this space. An interesting development.

Well that's long way to go and for sure they know that the institution they try to out perform is already well established company that has been tested for many years of challenges and they remain standing strong.

Hopefully they didn't say that just to get media mileage and get attention of future investors that might get attracted on everything they say. But its still really good that we have see them coming up with plans to focus on Bitcoin since somehow competition on accumulation on Bitcoin is really great for Bitcoin ecosystem.

And I'm also excited to see their future accumulation post just like what Microstrategy did after they accumulate their Bitcoins.

I think it probably isn't as far away as you think.  Strategy's "strategy" of buying Bitcoin is honestly idiotic and can only lead to them inevitably being liquidated at some point or charged with some sort of financial crime if they aren't.  So all Jack really has to do is not touch leverage and his company will win long term.  Saylor is using leverage and buying tops, which seems smart when the market goes up...  Markets are smarter than greedy men though.  This market will go only as high as it takes to get Saylor's position overleveraged to where the actual big boys in global finance (who may not have even entered the space sufficiently yet and who's entrance will likely cause the coming bubble) can sell and liquidate him.  That will likely be what kicks off the bear market of 2027 if you ask me.  Maybe he'll be saved this cycle by the US Government buying, but I am confident that at some point in the possibly distant future (maybe 2 years, maybe 10 years) Strategy will be liquidated and cause the mother of all Bitcoin crashes.

You sound like someone who does not even know what Saylor/MSTR is doing.  Just spouting out some nonsense without knowing specifics, and acting like you know something or you have some ideas about some vulnerabilities that they "must have."  Yet you are just throwing shit at the wall and hoping that maybe something sticks, like you are merely guessing.

MSTR is not even using BTC as collateral, and they end up owning the BTC entirely after servicing the debt.  Their debt to asset ratio is quite low, too, with debt terms that are quite low interest rates such as less than 1% and then terms that are 4 years or more into the future...   Sure there are always can be some execution risks and even custodial risks, but you are just seeming to proclaim that whatever they are doing just seems too good to be true.. and perhaps you are also caught up upon their average cost per BTC continuing to go up and erroneously thinking that MSTR/Saylor are going to be wiped out if the BTC price goes below their cost per BTC... which is another wrong way of thinking... but you are free to think it just like some of the other dumb superficial analysts that I had been seeing spouting similar nonsense.

[Catenaccio]

MSTR is not even using BTC as collateral, and they end up owning the BTC entirely after servicing the debt.  Their debt to asset ratio is quite low, too, with debt terms that are quite low interest rates such as less than 1% and then terms that are 4 years or more into the future...   Sure there are always can be some execution risks and even custodial risks, but you are just seeming to proclaim that whatever they are doing just seems too good to be true.. and perhaps you are also caught up upon their average cost per BTC continuing to go up and erroneously thinking that MSTR/Saylor are going to be wiped out if the BTC price goes below their cost per BTC... which is another wrong way of thinking... but you are free to think it just like some of the other dumb superficial analysts that I had been seeing spouting similar nonsense.

Strategy began with excellent idea and they did it outstandingly since September 2020. As consequence of their good business model, their stock MSTR has grown up from $14.4 in September 2020 when they began purchases of bitcoin, to $394 today in May 2025. Their MSTR stock has risen 27.4 times since their beginning with bitcoin investment.

At the same time, their Bitcoin portfolio ROI is +38.3% and Bitcoin price rose from $11,652 to $94,608 that is 8.1-fold increase.

All figures of Bitcoin price, Strategy portfolio ROI, and Bitcoin price change during a same period from September 2020 to May 2025 show Strategy model is very excellent and it has helped their company value outperforms Bitcoin and Portfolio ROI.

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/MSTR:NASDAQ?sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjixezZ84uNAxUexTgGHaXvIOAQ3ecFegQIQBAX&window=5Y
https://saylortracker.com/

[FortuneFollower]

I just read this and the only key takeaway for me is that accumulating bitcoin as a retail/individual investor is now important more than ever. The cooperate firms that would indulge full-fledged Bitcoin stacking campaigns won't end with Microstrategy or TwentyOne Capital.

The current price is the ideal price, and that fact would remain the same going forward and more relevant than ever for us now

[Wind_FURY]

So from that statement alone, it's not like the next MicroStrategy, it's just like the next BitGo or even the next Binance minus trading. And with license or regulated permits (different from Binance).

So, not a stacker. But doing all the things a finance company does, but I guess using BTC as a backing?

You completely misunderstood what this is about. It's a StrategyBTC copy but try to have a better strategy, or at least that's how they sell it (I don't believe it).

The base will be the 42,000 bitcoins that they will have at the beginning and those that they will be acquiring. From there they will offer products such as convertible debt, shares and other products, as StrategyBTC does.

What I am curious to see is if Mallers, with the background they have with LN will bring out new products, which StrategyBTC does not have, based on LN.

It's hard to understand these types of companies for the average person.

You don't believe what? That TwentyOne Capital could actually do a better execution on their Bitcoin purchasing strategy than Saylor? That's going to be VERY laughable! Saylor definitely has one of the worst executions for an institutional asset buyer in crypto. Every time Strategy buys, it always marks the local top.

Perhaps someone should tell them to use limit orders for better fills and better price entries.

[Free Market Capitalist]

You don't believe what?

I don't believe how poor your reading skills are.

That TwentyOne Capital could actually do a better execution on their Bitcoin purchasing strategy than Saylor? That's going to be VERY laughable! Saylor definitely has one of the worst executions for an institutional asset buyer in crypto. Every time Strategy buys, it always marks the local top.

The best thing about the ridicule you just made is that you put it in writing.

Perhaps someone should tell them to use limit orders for better fills and better price entries.

MSTR uses trading bots with limit orders but you continue to make a fool of yourself.

[JayJuanGee]

So from that statement alone, it's not like the next MicroStrategy, it's just like the next BitGo or even the next Binance minus trading. And with license or regulated permits (different from Binance).

So, not a stacker. But doing all the things a finance company does, but I guess using BTC as a backing?

You completely misunderstood what this is about. It's a StrategyBTC copy but try to have a better strategy, or at least that's how they sell it (I don't believe it).
The base will be the 42,000 bitcoins that they will have at the beginning and those that they will be acquiring. From there they will offer products such as convertible debt, shares and other products, as StrategyBTC does.

What I am curious to see is if Mallers, with the background they have with LN will bring out new products, which StrategyBTC does not have, based on LN.
It's hard to understand these types of companies for the average person.

You don't believe what? That TwentyOne Capital could actually do a better execution on their Bitcoin purchasing strategy than Saylor? That's going to be VERY laughable! Saylor definitely has one of the worst executions for an institutional asset buyer in crypto. Every time Strategy buys, it always marks the local top.

Perhaps someone should tell them to use limit orders for better fills and better price entries.

As is your practice, you seem distracted and diluted Wind_FURY.  You seem to want to proclaim that you have better ideas than Saylor, and surely you don't.  Cost per BTC is not the ONLY way to figure out performance and/or strategies, whether we are talking on the individual level or institutions and/or governments.

Of course, individuals have to be more careful in regards to how they use debt and/or leverage, yet they still may be advantaged to continue to buy bitcoin at higher prices and not waiting for dips that may or may not end up happening.

Another thing is that if capital comes available when BTC prices are higher, such as Saylor/MSTR's stock prices are higher at that time, then he takes advantage of the momentum of us stock that makes more cash to come available when MSTR stock values (and/or other ways of valuating his company and/or assets are up, rather than down).

You can naysay on Saylor and MSTR all that you want, but you really look like the ignorant one when you are proclaiming that he does not know what he is doing based on his buying BTC at high prices rather than "waiting for the dip."  Dips that might not happen.

Sure, Saylor's situation is different as an institution, and surely I would not recommend that individuals need to employ such levels of leverage and/or even investing beyond 25% of their income, yet individuals do not have access to such credit lines like Saylor and Saylor/MSTR has various kinds of cashflows (and emergency funds) beyond their software business.

I would say that you, Wind_FURY, have some of the similar dumb ideas when it comes to individual accumulation of bitcoin, and surely you have biases in your head about needs to wait for dips prior to buying.  Remember in mid-to-late 2023 when the BTC prices were bouncing between $25k and $32k and you were so worked up about NOT buying and waiting for BTC prices to go back down into the lower $20ks and even perhaps returning back below $20k, which was quite retarded when we consider that the 200-WMA was then in the $27k arena, and you were wanting more of a discount than what already existed because you were proclaiming that poor people need to get a better discount and blah blah blah,... having fun staying poor because you are too busy waiting for dips that may well end up not happening.  Hopefully, no one followed your 2023 waiting recommendations, especially if they ar in their accumulation stage including if they were either low coiners and/or no coiners.

You don't believe what?

I don't believe how poor your reading skills are.

Another good point. 

 

That TwentyOne Capital could actually do a better execution on their Bitcoin purchasing strategy than Saylor? That's going to be VERY laughable! Saylor definitely has one of the worst executions for an institutional asset buyer in crypto. Every time Strategy buys, it always marks the local top.

The best thing about the ridicule you just made is that you put it in writing.

To some extent, it is amazing that someone who has supposedly been accumulating bitcoin since 2016 and supposedly studying bitcoin still has not figured out some of the basics of bitcoin, and the fact that Saylor/MSTR is engaging upon various attempts to leverage upon dollar debasement and/or even the hype of market movements in which more debt comes available based on UPPity price momentum that is a combination of BTC uppity momentum but also their company stocks going up at the same time at even a greater rate.  But yeah, Wind_FURY is not going to be fooled by any of those artificialities, since Wind_FURY is smarter than Saylor/MSTR and has some profound insights in regards to basic principles of "buying the dip," that he would like to share about his level of smartness.

Perhaps someone should tell them to use limit orders for better fills and better price entries.

MSTR uses trading bots with limit orders but you continue to make a fool of yourself.

I am sure that Saylor/MSTR has been learning a variety of techniques in their years of buying bitcoin, including how they report their BTC buys, and from time to time, Saylor even talks about some of their buying techniques, including how amazing he found it that he/MSTR could buy millions of dollars of bitcoin without moving the price, which showed it's 2020 liquidity, and surely I would imagine that bitcoin has become even more liquid in the subsequent nearly 5 years later.

[Ambatman]

I am sure that Saylor/MSTR has been learning a variety of techniques in their years of buying bitcoin, including how they report their BTC buys, and from time to time, Saylor even talks about some of their buying techniques, including how amazing he found it that he/MSTR could buy millions of dollars of bitcoin without moving the price, which showed it's 2020 liquidity, and surely I would imagine that bitcoin has become even more liquid in the subsequent nearly 5 years later.

I read about this around last year or earlier this year.
They usually buy with the help of Coinbase OTC to prevent price slippage and sometimes uses TWAP.
They usually make their buys around the week and share every Monday.
It's quite spread out.


And on TwentyOne doing better than Microstrategy, only time would tell
Actions speak louder than words.

[Catenaccio]

I am sure that Saylor/MSTR has been learning a variety of techniques in their years of buying bitcoin, including how they report their BTC buys, and from time to time, Saylor even talks about some of their buying techniques, including how amazing he found it that he/MSTR could buy millions of dollars of bitcoin without moving the price, which showed it's 2020 liquidity, and surely I would imagine that bitcoin has become even more liquid in the subsequent nearly 5 years later.

They are a big company and with long business operation and history so they actually master neccessary steps to do for their company tax reports even before their start of Bitcoin investment in September 2020.

Strategy when their brand name was Micro Strategy truly sold bitcoins around days of tax report and I believe that it was technical action from Micro Strategy for details of their company tax report.

The only sale they did is on 22 December 2022.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1050446/000119312522313098/d398241d8k.htm

On December 28, 2022, MicroStrategy Incorporated (“MicroStrategy”) announced the following:
    • During the period between November 1, 2022 and December 21, 2022, MicroStrategy, through its wholly-owned subsidiary MacroStrategy LLC (“MacroStrategy”), acquired approximately 2,395 bitcoins for approximately $42.8 million in cash, at an average price of approximately $17,871 per bitcoin, inclusive of fees and expenses.
    • On December 22, 2022, MacroStrategy sold approximately 704 bitcoins for cash proceeds of approximately $11.8 million, at an average price of approximately $16,776 per bitcoin, net of fees and expenses. MicroStrategy plans to carry back the capital losses resulting from this transaction against previous capital gains, to the extent such carrybacks are available under the federal income tax laws currently in effect, which may generate a tax benefit.
    • On December 24, 2022, MacroStrategy acquired approximately 810 bitcoins for approximately $13.6 million in cash, at an average price of approximately $16,845 per bitcoin, inclusive of fees and expenses.

[thecodebear]

I like that Jack said 21 will outperform Strategy because they are actually going to have revenue producing businesses instead of a money losing company stacking BTC. That makes it seem like they can actually outperform especially when you consider how much smaller they are to start. I didn’t think we’d see competition in this space. An interesting development.

Well that's long way to go and for sure they know that the institution they try to out perform is already well established company that has been tested for many years of challenges and they remain standing strong.

Hopefully they didn't say that just to get media mileage and get attention of future investors that might get attracted on everything they say. But its still really good that we have see them coming up with plans to focus on Bitcoin since somehow competition on accumulation on Bitcoin is really great for Bitcoin ecosystem.

And I'm also excited to see their future accumulation post just like what Microstrategy did after they accumulate their Bitcoins.

I think it probably isn't as far away as you think.  Strategy's "strategy" of buying Bitcoin is honestly idiotic and can only lead to them inevitably being liquidated at some point or charged with some sort of financial crime if they aren't.  So all Jack really has to do is not touch leverage and his company will win long term.  Saylor is using leverage and buying tops, which seems smart when the market goes up...  Markets are smarter than greedy men though.  This market will go only as high as it takes to get Saylor's position overleveraged to where the actual big boys in global finance (who may not have even entered the space sufficiently yet and who's entrance will likely cause the coming bubble) can sell and liquidate him.  That will likely be what kicks off the bear market of 2027 if you ask me.  Maybe he'll be saved this cycle by the US Government buying, but I am confident that at some point in the possibly distant future (maybe 2 years, maybe 10 years) Strategy will be liquidated and cause the mother of all Bitcoin crashes.

lol what are you even talking about? Liquidated or financial crimes? It's not a crime to buy Bitcoin. And the majority of their Bitcoin they own without debt (or have already paid off the debt on the older collateral loans they took out years ago). There's pretty much no way they are at risk of any sort of liquidation event that would put them in any sort of trouble.

What is going to happen to Strategy is that by next decade they are literally going to have hundreds of billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin.



The only risky thing I see with Strategy is I keep seeing Saylor mention, whenever he talks about wanting to buy many tens of billions of dollars more Bitcoin (which so far they aren't really doing at all), is when they talk about like half of that future buying coming from interest bearing debt. They've done fine on very low interest bearing debt in the past, because they didn't do a whole lot of it and it had zero or very low interest, and they got those old debts paid off already. But when Saylor talks about interest paying debt on tens of billions of dollars of future purchases I'm like how the heck are they going to pay that interest considering the company only makes like ~$100 million revenue quarterly, and usually barely scrapes by on profit.

Maybe I'm not understanding how those financial instruments work, but that seems highly risky - i mean they'd end up just having to sell bitcoin to pay the interest cuz they don't have any other money. I assume Saylor knows what he is doing, but the future plans certainly sound silly to me if they are going to have to be paying interest on tens of billions of dollars considering the business doesn't really have any way of generating much profit and the annual interest payments would likely be more than their entire annual revenue. But if they stick to just selling stock to buy more Bitcoin then they are golden because that is a zero risk strategy, so they should absolutely continue with just that.

[slaman29]

I'm certainly learning a lot more reading the last few posts than anything I can find on the Cointelegraphs and all that in that similar range of news outlets.

All I can say for my takeaway is we can't follow MS, and 21C is not really the same. MS = Saylor in terms of buying BTC, he is the shotcaller, and IIRC earlier on he went against his board. Doubt 21C is the same structure decisionmaking wise.