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Author Topic: Removing OP_return limits seems like a huge mistake  (Read 5741 times)
Satofan44
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November 14, 2025, 03:06:13 AM
Last edit: November 14, 2025, 03:19:23 AM by Satofan44
Merited by gmaxwell (4)
 #301

The truth remains that no side can convince the other. When there comes a time on exploit on OP_RETURN. I won't be surprised if it's done by knot lover to try and prove their point that they are right because so far, they haven't.
The ones that scream the loudest about something like CSAM are usually the ones that are basement case examples of people holding CSAM.

And then Luke responded to Lopp by saying storage of illicit data is "immoral and illegal." Like he didn't hear what Lopp had said at all. He did repeatedly call Lopp a "bad actor." He can't really be reasoned with.
He's clearly arguing in bad faith, it is a waste of time to address him. There are much more productive uses of time available, like sitting down and not doing anything. Even that is more productive than talking to CSAM-jr.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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February 16, 2026, 07:25:14 AM
Merited by d5000 (2), JayJuanGee (1)
 #302

A link to Mempool.Space's report about OP_RETURN after Bitcoin Core release 30.

https://research.mempool.space/opreturn-report/

 👀

Their conclusion based on HARD data - OP_RETURN doesn't significantly bloat the blockchain, and it remains small and manageable.

Although it's too early to say that this matter is closed, it does dispel the FUD made by the filterbois.

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Cricktor
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February 16, 2026, 11:59:22 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #303

Nice report, indeed. I'm not too surprised about the results and frankly never understood the irrational storm in a waterglass that was stirred up by the Knots cult regarding the new OP_RETURN standardness. Did they ever show solid evidence with concrete data?

And besides the Runes spam which uses rather small OP_RETURN payload, it's pretty obvious that other blockchain spammers wouldn't likely exploit the new relaxed size and count rules for OP_RETURN of Core-v30+ standardness. OP_RETURN weight is simply not discounted and why would blockchain spammers with their inscriptions and whatnotelse shit want to pay more transaction fees than necessary?

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l8orre
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February 16, 2026, 12:34:32 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2026, 03:07:25 PM by l8orre
 #304


... spammers wouldn't likely exploit ...


moron.

BTC protocol has been discombabulated for over ten years now by malicious actors.

Go ask your friends Brock, Adam Back, Joi Ito etcetc where they got their inspirations.

The amount of denial in coretard circles is quite interesting.
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February 16, 2026, 01:01:07 PM
Merited by d5000 (2), JayJuanGee (1)
 #305

That there was going to be no real *organic* change was obvious.

What surprised me is that none of the people pushing for lukecoin / censorcoin spent money to spam the blockchain to prove their point.

Although to spam it to the point that it mattered would cost a lot and be obvious what it was and would wind up putting money in competitors pockets so they might not really want to do it.

Shrug, whatever. They are now trying to say that MARA lost a block due to mining sub 1 sat vb transactions because it took too long to propagate.
:eyeroll:

-Dave

 
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Cricktor
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February 16, 2026, 02:29:21 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2026, 02:39:47 PM by Cricktor
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #306

...
Did you deliberately cite me quite out of context? Have at least the decency to acknowledge that I was speaking of OP_RETURN context and not the way you try to frame it.

But that's probably the style of conversation your camp prefers.


Just to be clear, I don't like how Taproot and witness discount is exploited for silly inscriptions and bloating the blockchain with all sorts of crap. But I haven't seen a decent solution to this that doesn't do possibly severe harm.

It should be clear even for you that you can't shut down any method to put spam on the blockchain and likely we both don't want spammers to dodge to methods that permanently bloat the UTXO set.

One of the problems is that actors and gullible people entertain a market for Bitcoin blockchain spam where few will make profit in the end and don't care a shit about blockchain "health" and future of Bitcoin.

The above mentioned report shows that the OP_RETURN drama has no solid roots and evidence. It's framed and abused for other agendas that no camp has good solutions for.

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l8orre
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February 16, 2026, 03:14:56 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2026, 10:43:05 PM by l8orre
 #307

...
Did you deliberately cite me quite out of context? Have at least the decency to acknowledge that I was speaking of OP_RETURN context and not the way you try to frame it.

But that's probably the style of conversation your camp prefers.


Just to be clear, I don't like how Taproot and witness discount is exploited for silly inscriptions and bloating the blockchain with all sorts of crap. But I haven't seen a decent solution to this that doesn't do possibly severe harm.

It should be clear even for you that you can't shut down any method to put spam on the blockchain and likely we both don't want spammers to dodge to methods that permanently bloat the UTXO set.

One of the problems is that actors and gullible people entertain a market for Bitcoin blockchain spam where few will make profit in the end and don't care a shit about blockchain "health" and future of Bitcoin.

The above mentioned report shows that the OP_RETURN drama has no solid roots and evidence. It's framed and abused for other agendas that no camp has good solutions for.

if I misunderstood you and arbitrary data storage is not one of the use cases we just have today, I would apologize.

otherwise, if you'd be naive enough to incrementally fragment the protocol on the belief that assertions like

Quote
... spammers wouldn't likely exploit ...

constitute a solid basis for a fundamental technology: you'd be a total and utter moron and imbecile.

Satofan44
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February 16, 2026, 04:09:42 PM
 #308

Their conclusion based on HARD data - OP_RETURN doesn't significantly bloat the blockchain, and it remains small and manageable.
Yeah, it was discussed in some other threads. There is basically no uptick in the usage of bigger OP_RETURNs at all, and any small change can be dismissed as variance. Contrary to whatever exaggerating and panicking astroturfers and "independent thinkers" (many of such retards that barely have basic Bitcoin knowledge are in the WO thread) claimed, nothing changed at all -- and the conservative and rational voices ended up being right.

Although it's too early to say that this matter is closed, it does dispel the FUD made by the filterbois.
The case is closed whatever happens. If an attacker or spam-obsessed entity wants to harm Bitcoin, they are not going to use OP_RETURN they are going to use UTXOs. Therefore, no matter what happens in the future the arguments by Core will remain correct. Whether there will be a lot more OP_RETURN or not will not change this. In the case that there is heavy OP_RETURN usage, the lesson is that we have managed to prevent significant UTXO bloat by providing this alternative.

Did they ever show solid evidence with concrete data?
No.

And besides the Runes spam which uses rather small OP_RETURN payload, it's pretty obvious that other blockchain spammers wouldn't likely exploit the new relaxed size and count rules for OP_RETURN of Core-v30+ standardness.
There is nothing to exploit, that is the knowledge that they have been twisting. It is a fundamental misunderstanding of what OP_RETURN is and what it is for. If I am using something in the way that it is intended to be used and for the things that it is intended to be used for, then that is not an exploit.

The amount of denial in coretard circles is quite interesting.
You are a shitcoin leech that has never contributed anything to Bitcoin, so you can fuck off.

Although to spam it to the point that it mattered would cost a lot and be obvious what it was and would wind up putting money in competitors pockets so they might not really want to do it.
Someone could try to run the numbers, but the cost to sustain that kind of attack for a significant period of time to make it believable is probably quite significant. If it did happen but only lasted a very short amount of time nobody would believe it. I would not believe it until at least there were several months of sustained spam, and only then would I merely consider this as a possibility. Anyway, Luke-jr and his buddies are mostly broke. Besides collecting mining pool royalties they mostly spending their time fantasizing about being in CSAM committee and reviewing footage all day long. If instead they did quality work somewhere else, they may have enough money to fund this kind of attack.

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February 16, 2026, 04:33:32 PM
 #309

Although to spam it to the point that it mattered would cost a lot and be obvious what it was and would wind up putting money in competitors pockets so they might not really want to do it.
Someone could try to run the numbers, but the cost to sustain that kind of attack for a significant period of time to make it believable is probably quite significant. If it did happen but only lasted a very short amount of time nobody would believe it. I would not believe it until at least there were several months of sustained spam, and only then would I merely consider this as a possibility. Anyway, Luke-jr and his buddies are mostly broke. Besides collecting mining pool royalties they mostly spending their time fantasizing about being in CSAM committee and reviewing footage all day long. If instead they did quality work somewhere else, they may have enough money to fund this kind of attack.

Yup, and remember since Ocean does not mine these transactions all they would be doing is giving money to their competition.

I really hope they fork off and go the way of BSV.

-Dave


 
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February 16, 2026, 04:40:13 PM
 #310


The amount of denial in coretard circles is quite interesting.
You are a shitcoin leech that has never contributed anything to Bitcoin, so you can fuck off.


sure. as you mention it, I'll better heed your instruction and do as you say.

usually I occasionally observe this circus out of academic interest.

now having excised a fundamental issue of cognitive dissonance in this petri dish, I will just leave you to it again.

well, almost- while I am at the kbd, remind me again please-

what was the thing again with Epstin investing in Blockstream and funding three of five core devs via MIT media lab?

reminder for you so you can look it up: just before the time when the increasing disjointness of BTC protocol started?

and all the other collaborations?


 
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February 16, 2026, 09:12:49 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), ABCbits (1)
 #311

A link to Mempool.Space's report about OP_RETURN after Bitcoin Core release 30.

https://research.mempool.space/opreturn-report/
Interesting Smiley

It is a bit similar to my thread "OP_RETURN observer". BTW: if someone wants to see OP_RETURN data usage in real time just use this link to Dune.com (if the data is outdated and I forget to re-run the scripts, everybody with an account on Dune can run them too).

But the Mempool report of course digs a bit deeper, for example detailing also the protocols that were use, and the usage of multiple outputs. I didn't remember for example that the 2019 spam wave was caused by Veriblock. Veriblock is a service (it still exists, see https://veriblock.org/, but is largely irrelevant now), that includes altcoin block hashes in Bitcoin transactions to anchor altcoin chains.

But the conclusions are the same than I arrived with my thread: nothing has changed so far after Core 30. All possible negative future scenarios are purely speculative, and the most important: economic incentives have not changed in a significant way.

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before January 1st 2027?

    No @1.15         Yes @6.00    
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Wind_FURY
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Today at 10:40:19 AM
 #312


... spammers wouldn't likely exploit ...


moron.

BTC protocol has been discombabulated for over ten years now by malicious actors.

Go ask your friends Brock, Adam Back, Joi Ito etcetc where they got their inspirations.

The amount of denial in coretard circles is quite interesting.


That's a big word for you. Why don't you go to a corner and reflect on the effectiveness of those filters and what its purpose is technically supposed to be.

A link to Mempool.Space's report about OP_RETURN after Bitcoin Core release 30.

https://research.mempool.space/opreturn-report/
Interesting Smiley

It is a bit similar to my thread "OP_RETURN observer". BTW: if someone wants to see OP_RETURN data usage in real time just use this link to Dune.com (if the data is outdated and I forget to re-run the scripts, everybody with an account on Dune can run them too).

But the Mempool report of course digs a bit deeper, for example detailing also the protocols that were use, and the usage of multiple outputs. I didn't remember for example that the 2019 spam wave was caused by Veriblock. Veriblock is a service (it still exists, see https://veriblock.org/, but is largely irrelevant now), that includes altcoin block hashes in Bitcoin transactions to anchor altcoin chains.

But the conclusions are the same than I arrived with my thread: nothing has changed so far after Core 30. All possible negative future scenarios are purely speculative, and the most important: economic incentives have not changed in a significant way.


Which proves that BIP-110/filters are merely for the purpose of virtue-signalling/hand-waving. Because those "filters" are NOT actually effective in filtering the transactions that they call "spam", then what's its actual purpose?

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Today at 06:32:57 PM
 #313

Bitcoin: the fastest growing asset of all-time
Core critics: "Its broken and a failure."

From the mempool.space report referenced above... this is the situation of the topic of discussion:



Basically the chart shows there was an uptick in non-standard OP_RETURN transactions for the 1st 2 months after the release of Core 30 (noted by the dotted line). Then activity dropped significantly this year & has yet to come back. Will it ever? The economic incentives have to be there. I feel like the "on Bitcoin" shitcoiner meta is now pretty played out by this point. Early Ordinals believers are now saying it was a scam outright. Meaning, the degen crowd is moving on to the next thing.

For me as an "average Bitcoin user" (if there was such a thing), I just care about fees being low, which they are. Existentially I care about stuff like the health of the network, number of active nodes, network hash rate, commercial & societal adoption. But really most users just care if its practical to make transactions.

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Today at 06:36:03 PM
 #314

Concept ACK.

I support removing arbitrary limits on Core.  Sometime, people need to acknowledge that the nature of Bitcoin is to be a permissionless network, where information can be embedded in many forms, and trying to stifle all of them creates more problems than it solves.  For example, the Ordinals could be implemented far more efficiently if certain limits were removed, than by bloating the chain with UTXO dust that will remain unspent forever.

Also, the true reason why people oppose these proposals is because they don't want to see fees skyrocket.  They don't care what's being added in the chain, just as they don't care for every other transaction that is not "data-only".  Opposing the free market from finding innovative and efficient ways to make use of Bitcoin is contrary to the spirit of Bitcoin, and raises concern for the security budget problem.  The more obstacles we place to the way information can be spread, the more we push ourselves towards declining on-chain usage.

I agree that base layer minimalism is important, but isn’t the whole idea that higher-level experimentation should live in soft-fork-compatible changes while keeping consensus stable? Where exactly do you draw the line between “bloat” and legitimate extensibility?
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