CBDC and power cuts

[m2017]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.

So this is the real reason for the power outage in Spain. This is a way to promote and impose CBDC.

Okay, let's take off the tinfoil hat.

CBDC is a digital currency. And digital currencies can't work without electricity (Internet). Therefore, the EU rhetoric looks strange, or at least an attempt to promote CBDC on the wave of events that have happened. Maybe in the future, technologies will be created that allow using digital currencies without electricity, but at the moment this is impossible.

I have long wondered whether Bitcoin will likewise function without electricity - peer-to-peer by phone etc? And how about Blockstream satellite? My technical knowledge is limited on this subject.

These questions remain open, because the functionality of bitcoin is also tied to electricity (and the Internet). We will not consider experimental methods for now, because they have not yet been widely used and distributed. Of course, for complete decentralization, it would be nice if bitcoin had alternative ways of working (without the Internet). But I believe that the world will move in a different direction: in full coverage of the planet by the Internet (which is already happening in principle), than serious searches for alternative ways of confirming BTC-transactions will be conducted. The modern world is very dependent on electricity and the Internet and will not voluntarily refuse without apocalyptic reasons.

[headingnorth]

In that case many things will still function through your smartphone, including bitcoin transactions, so CBDCs don't have any
special advantage. Many companies and businesses, especially larger ones, have backup generator power so they can still be
in operation during a power outage at least temporarily. It's a dumb argument for CBDCs.

Yes, backup power generators can keep power going though it's both not particularly reasonable to assume and does not apply to all towers according to this article. As for companies having backup generators, yes larger ones maybe so, though most businesses I dare say would be relying on infrastructure they are renting/relying on their building. I wouldn't be surprised if backup coverage was in the sub 10-20% across the board.

I do agree that it's quite a petty reason for CBDCs.

I have yet to hear any good argument for CBDCs. It seems they are desperate to come up with something.

[Minor Miner]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.

I don't really believe that CBDCs work without electricity because it relates not only to CBDCs themselves but also to merchant operations and user payments that all need power supplies as well as internet connection.

A world without electricity and Internet connection are a dead world in modern era and electricty is very important because without it, there is no operation of merchants and many payment infrastructures. With Internet connection, you can have it with cable, non-cable connections or with Satellite Internet but the bottom line is you need Electricity first.

Alternatives for traditional internet
[Total privacy Bitcoin]: off grid Transactions LoRaWan/goTenna.

They only mention temporary power outages and internet outages, and they say their CBDC can work well in such cases.

According to reports and updates from the ECB, there will be two versions of CBDC, online and offline. To use CBDC offline, users will need a battery-powered smart card or smartcard, or they can also use their smartphone to transact via NFC.

It can be said that their CBDC can actually function without internet and electricity but it can only function for a certain period of time. Because after all all those devices run on electricity and they need to be powered up to keep working so OP's statement is incorrect.

[davis196]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.
I have long wondered whether Bitcoin will likewise function without electricity - peer-to-peer by phone etc? And how about Blockstream satellite? My technical knowledge is limited on this subject.

How the hell would digital payments(both fiat and crypto) survive without electricity and internet?
How a CBDC could possibly work without electricity and internet? This doesn't make any sense to me.
Even if the payment infrastructure works on a peer-to-peer basis, what happens when all phones drain their batteries and there's no electricity? Solar powered phone chargers might be a solution, but I don't see any solar powered phone chargers where I live.
I'm not an expert, but I think that satellites need receivers on the ground, in order to work, and those receivers need electricity.

[hero_the_bossman]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.
I have long wondered whether Bitcoin will likewise function without electricity - peer-to-peer by phone etc? And how about Blockstream satellite? My technical knowledge is limited on this subject.

How the hell would digital payments(both fiat and crypto) survive without electricity and internet?
How a CBDC could possibly work without electricity and internet? This doesn't make any sense to me.
Even if the payment infrastructure works on a peer-to-peer basis, what happens when all phones drain their batteries and there's no electricity? Solar powered phone chargers might be a solution, but I don't see any solar powered phone chargers where I live.
I'm not an expert, but I think that satellites need receivers on the ground, in order to work, and those receivers need electricity.

It's all a doom scenario anyways, for the electricity to be gone to such an extent and for such a long time to consider it as a threat.

[Synchronice]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.
I have long wondered whether Bitcoin will likewise function without electricity - peer-to-peer by phone etc? And how about Blockstream satellite? My technical knowledge is limited on this subject.

I understand that CBDC can work without an electricity but so can cash, so, we need cash to have some form of financial freedom because if we go full CBDC mode, we will lose the freedom and the fact that we will be able to pay offline with it, won't outweigh anything.

Bitcoin can't function without electricity because we need electricity to run nodes and we need electricity to mine blocks. Bitcoin payment might work without internet but Bitcoin ecosystem won't! Bitcoin shouldn't be compared to CBDC because these two are completely different things. Bitcoin was created for different purposes, it was never meant to change traditional payments, especially offline, real-life payments.

[BenCodie]

In that case many things will still function through your smartphone, including bitcoin transactions, so CBDCs don't have any
special advantage. Many companies and businesses, especially larger ones, have backup generator power so they can still be
in operation during a power outage at least temporarily. It's a dumb argument for CBDCs.

Yes, backup power generators can keep power going though it's both not particularly reasonable to assume and does not apply to all towers according to this article. As for companies having backup generators, yes larger ones maybe so, though most businesses I dare say would be relying on infrastructure they are renting/relying on their building. I wouldn't be surprised if backup coverage was in the sub 10-20% across the board.

I do agree that it's quite a petty reason for CBDCs.

I have yet to hear any good argument for CBDCs. It seems they are desperate to come up with something.

I agree. Every year there is a new reason for them. I think the funniest thing is that despite hearing so much about them, it's just ongoing "pilots" and media releases saying they will implement them, and yet 5 years+ later there's still no significant integration that has reached the masses afaik.

[X-ray]

CBDC will not work as well if that's the case.

It will not work if they just created consortium private blockchain for their CBDC and the nodes are ran by themselves centralized in one place where outage happens.

As for bitcoin, there are too much source of electricity across the world. WIth bitcoin's decentralized miners, I doubt something like this could affect bitcoin unless electricity suddenly gone from the entire planet.

[thecodebear]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.
I have long wondered whether Bitcoin will likewise function without electricity - peer-to-peer by phone etc? And how about Blockstream satellite? My technical knowledge is limited on this subject.

uhh how in the world would CBDC's work without power?? lol

It's a digital currency. If you walk into a store and there's no power the store won't have any way to take any sort of digital payment.

[melinoe]

CBDC will not work as well if that's the case.

It will not work if they just created consortium private blockchain for their CBDC and the nodes are ran by themselves centralized in one place where outage happens.

As for bitcoin, there are too much source of electricity across the world. WIth bitcoin's decentralized miners, I doubt something like this could affect bitcoin unless electricity suddenly gone from the entire planet.

There are also options other than the ones that are usually seen by the general eye: satellites and so on.

[Marvell1]

I agree. Every year there is a new reason for them. I think the funniest thing is that despite hearing so much about them, it's just ongoing "pilots" and media releases saying they will implement them, and yet 5 years+ later there's still no significant integration that has reached the masses afaik.

Because the current financial system is still working quite well and meeting the needs, they do not need to rush to deploy CBDC. Or the US, they don't even intend to create a CBDC because they feel it's unnecessary.

But besides that, many countries are very serious about issuing CBDC and China is the most prominent country. e-CNY is still in the testing phase and has not been officially rolled out nationwide, but has processed billions of transactions from 2019 to 2023. This shows that they want everything to be perfect and complete before putting it into mass use.


https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/10/what-are-central-bank-digital-currencies-advantages-risks/

[fikrett]

I agree. Every year there is a new reason for them. I think the funniest thing is that despite hearing so much about them, it's just ongoing "pilots" and media releases saying they will implement them, and yet 5 years+ later there's still no significant integration that has reached the masses afaik.

Because the current financial system is still working quite well and meeting the needs, they do not need to rush to deploy CBDC. Or the US, they don't even intend to create a CBDC because they feel it's unnecessary.

But besides that, many countries are very serious about issuing CBDC and China is the most prominent country. e-CNY is still in the testing phase and has not been officially rolled out nationwide, but has processed billions of transactions from 2019 to 2023. This shows that they want everything to be perfect and complete before putting it into mass use.


https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/10/what-are-central-bank-digital-currencies-advantages-risks/

Because CBDCs allow more control, and who else would want as much of it as it can take

[BenCodie]

I agree. Every year there is a new reason for them. I think the funniest thing is that despite hearing so much about them, it's just ongoing "pilots" and media releases saying they will implement them, and yet 5 years+ later there's still no significant integration that has reached the masses afaik.

Because the current financial system is still working quite well and meeting the needs, they do not need to rush to deploy CBDC. Or the US, they don't even intend to create a CBDC because they feel it's unnecessary.

But besides that, many countries are very serious about issuing CBDC and China is the most prominent country. e-CNY is still in the testing phase and has not been officially rolled out nationwide, but has processed billions of transactions from 2019 to 2023. This shows that they want everything to be perfect and complete before putting it into mass use.


https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/10/what-are-central-bank-digital-currencies-advantages-risks/

That's right, the US are fine with stablecoins, they essentially serve the same purpose and USDC for example are controlled by US corporations. XRP also have banking relations.

It does make sense to wait until it's perfect before rolling out, though what doesn't make sense to me is why so many CBDCs exist. I could only imagine that it is due to so many different programs to waste money on research and development.

[melinoe]

That's right, the US are fine with stablecoins, they essentially serve the same purpose and USDC for example are controlled by US corporations. XRP also have banking relations.

It does make sense to wait until it's perfect before rolling out, though what doesn't make sense to me is why so many CBDCs exist. I could only imagine that it is due to so many different programs to waste money on research and development.

Many want their own currency to tweak it to their own desires and specifics.

[Orange89]

Even with CBDC or btc
We still need these electricity for sending the transaction
If the power will goes down then both will run into problem like our phone our internet & Networks all rely on the power fam
Not only these but tool like satelightes /offline wallets help it a little but they are not perfect fixe solution 
Power cut is the better energy system
not just switching like how we pay
So I will say while digital money had benefit
it is not a magic solution frend when the power goo down

Like recent SPAIN outages
You can Search that in Internet "Recent Outrage in Spain "

here the commercial stopped because their was that no electricity showing  So that the main solution should be the better energy system
not just switching to digital currency

[betswift]

Even with CBDC or btc
We still need these electricity for sending the transaction
If the power will goes down then both will run into problem like our phone our internet & Networks all rely on the power fam
Not only these but tool like satelightes /offline wallets help it a little but they are not perfect fixe solution 
Power cut is the better energy system
not just switching like how we pay
So I will say while digital money had benefit
it is not a magic solution frend when the power goo down

Like recent SPAIN outages
You can Search that in Internet "Recent Outrage in Spain "

here the commercial stopped because their was that no electricity showing  So that the main solution should be the better energy system
not just switching to digital currency

These outages are very rare - but yeah, more measures for such cases are needed.

To avoid them..

[BenCodie]

That's right, the US are fine with stablecoins, they essentially serve the same purpose and USDC for example are controlled by US corporations. XRP also have banking relations.

It does make sense to wait until it's perfect before rolling out, though what doesn't make sense to me is why so many CBDCs exist. I could only imagine that it is due to so many different programs to waste money on research and development.

Many want their own currency to tweak it to their own desires and specifics.

That's a valid point, though also shows that governments and institutions aren't learning from what worked for blockchain to begin with (open source development). Imagine if the world came together to build a CBDC solution in an open source way? It would save a lot of time and resources, and encourage collaboration on a global level. I know that this is an optimistic view, though it is something that could easily replace the fragmented development. I'm not for CBDC development in general but if it's going to be developed, open source seemingly would have been a better route.

[X-ray]

There are also options other than the ones that are usually seen by the general eye: satellites and so on.

Yes satellites could be a good option.

I mean the fact that we have starlink right now already gives high speed internet across the world even in the most remote area so what matter is just finding electricity but we can even turn waterfall into electricity.

So, there's so much alternative that I don't think BTC could be affected unlike CBDC with its centralized nature.

[Mahiyammahi]

“A CBDC can run without electricity” This is a complete misconception to have. Any digital system requires electricity to run the system, it could be CBDC or Bitcoin either. The difference is that Bitcoin is much more sustainable and has the ability to run in alternative ways. Even if there is no internet, Bitcoin blocks can be received via Blockstream satellites. Transactions can be made via radio, mesh networks, and even SMS.

While CBDC is completely dependent on a central system, Bitcoin is decentralized it does not require a specific bank or server. If Europe goes black or the system goes down, the CBDC will be useless, but Bitcoin can still run. Bitcoin is not just a currency, it is a symbol of decentralized resilience. Even if there is no electricity, Bitcoin survives as long as there is a signal and a system to run.

[betswift]

Yes satellites could be a good option.

I mean the fact that we have starlink right now already gives high speed internet across the world even in the most remote area so what matter is just finding electricity but we can even turn waterfall into electricity.

So, there's so much alternative that I don't think BTC could be affected unlike CBDC with its centralized nature.

BTC would have more options.

I even saw options like radios / sending BTCs via SMS, but that's the last resort, I would say