CBDC and power cuts

[Etranger]

I recently visited Europe — the Netherlands, to be specific. I hadn’t left Ukraine for two years, and from what I remembered, things in Europe used to be different. Now I’ve found that almost no one wants to accept cash anymore. It’s card-only, even in museum gift shops or at Keukenhof - one of the most touristic places ever.
Sure, this isn’t CBDC yet, but it’s already a much tighter level of financial control over the population than it was just two years ago. I understand that my experience is subjective and the sample size is small, but it really left an impression on me — and not a pleasant one.

[john_egbert]

I recently visited Europe — the Netherlands, to be specific. I hadn’t left Ukraine for two years, and from what I remembered, things in Europe used to be different. Now I’ve found that almost no one wants to accept cash anymore. It’s card-only, even in museum gift shops or at Keukenhof - one of the most touristic places ever.
Sure, this isn’t CBDC yet, but it’s already a much tighter level of financial control over the population than it was just two years ago. I understand that my experience is subjective and the sample size is small, but it really left an impression on me — and not a pleasant one.

Let's see what would change in two more years to come - I do think they will go further in that direction, because it's more convenient, but it lets out more control and knowledge for what is happening in your life. 

[fuguebtc]

So don’t believe everything they say. At the end of the day, only paper money doesn’t need electricity but it loses value over time.

ECB doesn't say that, that's what OP said. Based on ECB reports and other sources, they claim that their CBDC can work without the internet, they don't say it doesn't need electricity.

Internet-free payments are not new, China has successfully done this with e-CNY and most central banks are also developing CBDCs in that direction. But offline payments are very limited and not as private as cash because they only allow small transactions and require synchronization when there is internet.


https://finance.ec.europa.eu/digital-finance/digital-euro/frequently-asked-questions-digital-euro-and-legal-tender-cash_en

[goldkingcoiner]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.
I have long wondered whether Bitcoin will likewise function without electricity - peer-to-peer by phone etc? And how about Blockstream satellite? My technical knowledge is limited on this subject.

A CBDC cannot work without electricity, just like any other electronic payment system, including Bitcoin.

The EU is pushing their CBDCs on to the people with all possible resources, whether propaganda or straight up law enforcement. This will only get worse in the near-future. Bitcoin is really the only thing standing in their way and honestly, they will never be able to do anything against it.

Don't believe the EU government. All this CBDC stuff is coming from their central bank lobbyist friends.

[kryptqnick]

To those doubting blackouts as a real problem to prepare for, I'll share my experience as a Ukrainian living in Ukraine through some very serious blackouts. Before Russia decided to target energy infrastructure throughout Ukraine, we didn't think about blackouts as a possibility,  not on countrywide scale anyway.
As we know better right now, I can speak from experience.
Before the cities and the country adapted to blackouts, cash was in high demand. If you wanted to buy something in a big city during a blackout, you needed cash. Of course,  ATMs also don't work without electricity, so you needed to get cash in advance.
The blackouts didn't bring a total collapse of energy infrastructure even in Ukraine during targeted attacks. At most (unless it's an area very close to the frontlines,  like less than 10 km close, or a very rural area), it was 2 days with no power, I think. But we've had very long periods of rolling blackouts with no power for most of every 24 hours with brief slots with power.
Long story short, it's not about CBDCs, Bitcoin or something else. It's more about adapting and actually having power by using power generators, power stations, powerbanks etc. And having some cash just in case.

[Riceandbean]

⚠️ As for the EU’s claim that CBDC would work without electricity — this is probably marketing speak. Any digital money still needs some device to access and verify transactions. If there’s a total power outage, even CBDCs would struggle unless backed by offline-capable smart cards or cash-like devices, which are still speculative.

In short: Bitcoin isn’t immune to power outages, but it has more decentralized and creative ways to stay functional than most centralized systems. And that’s one of its strengths.

[X-ray]

I recently visited Europe — the Netherlands, to be specific. I hadn’t left Ukraine for two years, and from what I remembered, things in Europe used to be different. Now I’ve found that almost no one wants to accept cash anymore. It’s card-only, even in museum gift shops or at Keukenhof - one of the most touristic places ever.
Sure, this isn’t CBDC yet, but it’s already a much tighter level of financial control over the population than it was just two years ago. I understand that my experience is subjective and the sample size is small, but it really left an impression on me — and not a pleasant one.

Is it really financial control over the population though? I mean although I agree cash preserve privacy but apparently most of people nowadays prefer convenience so it's natural that people ditched cash for cashless. Most of the people around the world also slowly moving to cashless society.

In asia it's common to use QR code based payment system, in EU and in the US it's credit cards and something like apple pay.

Cash apparently is already outdated nowadays.

[Iranus]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.
I have long wondered whether Bitcoin will likewise function without electricity - peer-to-peer by phone etc? And how about Blockstream satellite? My technical knowledge is limited on this subject.

You need to provide evidence for your claim because I have tried to find out and as some members have pointed out, EU leaders and ECB have never made any such statement. They never bragged that their CBDC could work without electricity, they just said that they were developing CBDCs that could work temporarily without the internet.

Likewise, bitcoin also needs electricity and internet to function smoothly. I have also heard of solutions to use bitcoin without internet like Blockstream Satellite, SMS or radio...But so far, they are still very limited and not many people can use them. So for me, that is also not feasible.

[fikrett]

After the recent outages in Spain etc, which brought commerce to a standstill, I hear the EU has been crowing that if we had the CBDC this wouldn't be a problem, as it will work without electricity.
I have long wondered whether Bitcoin will likewise function without electricity - peer-to-peer by phone etc? And how about Blockstream satellite? My technical knowledge is limited on this subject.

You need to provide evidence for your claim because I have tried to find out and as some members have pointed out, EU leaders and ECB have never made any such statement. They never bragged that their CBDC could work without electricity, they just said that they were developing CBDCs that could work temporarily without the internet.

Likewise, bitcoin also needs electricity and internet to function smoothly. I have also heard of solutions to use bitcoin without internet like Blockstream Satellite, SMS or radio...But so far, they are still very limited and not many people can use them. So for me, that is also not feasible.

Satellites and SMS are the last resort options, imo - for the exact doom scenarios we are talking about