Arbitrage Betting or Bookmaker Scams?

[UberV]

Since both the player and the casino can’t be the winners at the same time, the casino can’t afford to have long term winning players making bets on the casino.
That’s why in the ToS they usually ban arbitrage/EV betting.

It is simply not good for business (from the casino's perspective). There is a difference between not being good for business (therefore not allowed) and trying to rob a player's winning, which OP does not seem to understand. I have a direct question for OP: would he accept a bet knowing that he will lose for sure? Or will he do any business where losses are inevitable? We all know the answer, so why expect the same thing from others?

If you can’t handle this, don’t play.

Exactly.

1. We are not interested in the profitability of the casino! We are discussing the legality of confiscation of winnings. And the correct formation of community views. If bookmakers allow themselves to steal someone else's winnings by accusing them of arbitrage, this should greatly lower their rating and trust, because this is not fair play on the part of the casino! We are not going to impose our rules on the casino, but if the casino refuses to adhere to fair play, its rating will be at the level of 3 out of 5 with perfect work.
2. Do not answer for me! If I ran a casino business, I would do everything to ensure that it worked honestly, because the main AND ONLY income of any casino is the embedded margin! And casino profits are gigantic. The main thing is that you have many regular customers. If your rating is perfect, then this will definitely happen.
I repeat to you once again that the same bet made at different times can be arbitrage and non-arbitrage. You ask, "would I accept the bet if it brought me a loss?" - the answer is naturally no. BUT you are confusing the concepts of the future tense and the past! "Will I pay if I accepted the bet???" - that is the right question!!! And naturally any honest bookmaker is obliged to pay on accepted bets. I hope you do not doubt this? If you are sure that the client makes bets that you do not like, will you continue to accept them? No, this is the right of any casino and it is honest.  And you don't ask the casino why you offer outcomes that are not allowed to bet on? You don't ask why the outcomes with arbitrage odds aren't highlighted in red so that I definitely don't bet on them!?

And once again I ask you specifically memehunter. If the bookmaker's rules prohibit making arbitrage bets. If I made a 100% arbitrage bet and it loses, will you cancel the bet and return my deposit??? I think the answer is clear, no one will return your lost bets. This is fraud!!! I hope you will not argue now?
And also try to answer the question, how can I documentarily confirm that my bets are not arbitrage? because I don't know the answer to this question and this is another fact that this rule can be applied to any player as unproven.

[memehunter]

1. We are not interested in the profitability of the casino!

Expect the same standard for casinos. They also don't care about your profits.  . Perhaps you missed the term, 'from casino's perspective' in my post.

if the casino refuses to adhere to fair play, its rating will be at the level of 3 out of 5 with perfect work.

Give them any rating in your own mind, who cares? But your argument is BS if you think you can convince someone with these overly generalized hypothetical scenarios.

BUT you are confusing the concepts of the future tense and the past!

What this BS, correct retrospective actions are justified in almost every field: stock exchange regulators confiscating funds obtained by illegal trade, bookies doing the same for cheaters, etc. Come on, don't pretend to be so naive and don't argue just for the sake of argument.
Future and past, lol, really!!

And once again I ask you specifically memehunter. If the bookmaker's rules prohibit making arbitrage bets. If I made a 100% arbitrage bet and it loses, will you cancel the bet and return my deposit??? I think the answer is clear, no one will return your lost bets. This is fraud!!! I hope you will not argue now?

Lol, you asked a question and answered it yourself lol. This is a common theme in your entire BS, you are not ready to look at counterarguments. 

And also try to answer the question, how can I documentarily confirm that my bets are not arbitrage? because I don't know the answer to this question and this is another fact that this rule can be applied to any player as unproven.

Lol, you are presenting like there are thousands of arbitrage betting opportunities every hour . As I said earlier and no wonder you have not paid attention, arbitrage opportunities are super rare and certainly, you need at least two casinos to exploit the +odds difference. You can easily show that it is not possible to do arbitrage by simple math. If there is a possibility of arbitrage you have to show your bet history from both casinos (hoping that you are not doing that.). Ofcourse, You can create a hypothetical situation (which I am sure you will do  ) whre it will be impossible to prove that you were not doing arbitrage betting, to which I have to say, bad luck man. It is like being in the wrong spot at wrong time 
Again, let me restate that no reputable casino is built on robbing players.

[UberV]

1. We are not interested in the profitability of the casino!

Expect the same standard for casinos. They also don't care about your profits.  . Perhaps you missed the term, 'from casino's perspective' in my post.

if the casino refuses to adhere to fair play, its rating will be at the level of 3 out of 5 with perfect work.

Give them any rating in your own mind, who cares? But your argument is BS if you think you can convince someone with these overly generalized hypothetical scenarios.

BUT you are confusing the concepts of the future tense and the past!

What this BS, correct retrospective actions are justified in almost every field: stock exchange regulators confiscating funds obtained by illegal trade, bookies doing the same for cheaters, etc. Come on, don't pretend to be so naive and don't argue just for the sake of argument.
Future and past, lol, really!!

And once again I ask you specifically memehunter. If the bookmaker's rules prohibit making arbitrage bets. If I made a 100% arbitrage bet and it loses, will you cancel the bet and return my deposit??? I think the answer is clear, no one will return your lost bets. This is fraud!!! I hope you will not argue now?

Lol, you asked a question and answered it yourself lol. This is a common theme in your entire BS, you are not ready to look at counterarguments. 

And also try to answer the question, how can I documentarily confirm that my bets are not arbitrage? because I don't know the answer to this question and this is another fact that this rule can be applied to any player as unproven.

Lol, you are presenting like there are thousands of arbitrage betting opportunities every hour . As I said earlier and no wonder you have not paid attention, arbitrage opportunities are super rare and certainly, you need at least two casinos to exploit the +odds difference. You can easily show that it is not possible to do arbitrage by simple math. If there is a possibility of arbitrage you have to show your bet history from both casinos (hoping that you are not doing that.). Ofcourse, You can create a hypothetical situation (which I am sure you will do  ) whre it will be impossible to prove that you were not doing arbitrage betting, to which I have to say, bad luck man. It is like being in the wrong spot at wrong time 
Again, let me restate that no reputable casino is built on robbing players.

Nonsense - these are all your comments! You demonstrate bad manners when you do not answer direct questions.
I ask you specific questions, but you do not answer them.
I give you specific examples, but you do not comment on them.
Just like your notion that an arbitrage situation must necessarily have a reverse bet - also nonsense! You think that this is a rare situation - also nonsense. You do not fully understand what you are writing about, but you are actively participating in the dispute ...

Rules that cannot be proven or disproved are fraud!
If a backer takes away all the winnings from players who made their bets on arbitrage, then he is also obliged to exchange all lost bets! But this will never happen. This is fraud!

The question is not who benefits from how to work. The question is about fair play! I give you indisputable facts that taking away winnings due to bets on arbitrage is fraud! But you're trying to poke me that I agreed with the casino rules myself. Do you even know that every casino without exception has a rule that any bet on an account can be cancelled without explanation??? If I cancel all your bets without explanation, what kind of face will you have? BUT you agreed to this when registering! DO NOT be indignant! It is the application of illegal rules that determines the bookmaker's rating and no one cares that theft is legal in its rules!

If you don't agree with my position, then start by answering basic questions:
1. If the casino says that arbitrage bets are prohibited. But I still made such a bet and lost. Will such a bet be cancelled according to the rules and the lost money be returned to the account?

2. How exactly can you check and document as evidence that your bet is not (or is) arbitrage?

Also, I want to upset you very much! In some situations, any bet on a specific outcome within a specific bookmaker will be arbitrage!!! If we take the match Arsenal and Bayern. Then the English bookmaker will experience a huge influx of bets on their home team and the bookmaker will lower its price, setting 1.88 - 2.05. And the bookmaker from Germany, on the contrary, will have a lot of bets on Bayern's victory and will lower its price to 2.05 - 1.88. But there will also be a third bookmaker who does not have a large volume of bets on one particular side and gives the most correct estimate of 1.97 -1.97 for the match. So in this case, both sides for bets are arbitrage!!! This situation is really rare, but real! You will be deprived of winnings regardless of what outcome you bet on!!! Will you continue to argue that the bookmaker's lies with reference to arbitrage bets are legal???

[DGUDGUDGU]

1. We are not interested in the profitability of the casino!

Expect the same standard for casinos. They also don't care about your profits.  . Perhaps you missed the term, 'from casino's perspective' in my post.

No it's "expect the same standard for scam casinos". No retail books operate this way and the large majority of crypto sites don't either.
This has never been an industry standard to just not payout under the guise of valuebetting or arb betting, NEVER.

Keep dying on the hill with the 10 or so scam casinos that have rules against winners in their ToS, really cool side to take here.

if the casino refuses to adhere to fair play, its rating will be at the level of 3 out of 5 with perfect work.

Give them any rating in your own mind, who cares? But your argument is BS if you think you can convince someone with these overly generalized hypothetical scenarios.

The casinos should care, betpanda for example has a terrible rating outside of trustpilot where they have a 3.5/5, which would be a 1.5 if they didn't spam fake positive reviews.
Their casinoguru, askgamblers and general reputation is destroyed. If you google "betpanda" hundreds of scam accusations instantly popup.
This is obviously going to hurt their reputation and will eventually be their complete downfall when they lose potential valuable customers from not paying out small amount of winnings.

So yes, THEY probably should care.

BUT you are confusing the concepts of the future tense and the past!

What this BS, correct retrospective actions are justified in almost every field: stock exchange regulators confiscating funds obtained by illegal trade, bookies doing the same for cheaters, etc. Come on, don't pretend to be so naive and don't argue just for the sake of argument.
Future and past, lol, really!!

This isn't the same at all, once again proving you're just really stupid and have no idea what you're talking about.
The correct comparison would be people betting on a fixed betting match and the bookies retrospectively voiding the bets after learning this, which is completely acceptable.

Betting some +ev lines where the bookies are just not pricing correctly is not the same.

And also try to answer the question, how can I documentarily confirm that my bets are not arbitrage? because I don't know the answer to this question and this is another fact that this rule can be applied to any player as unproven.

Lol, you are presenting like there are thousands of arbitrage betting opportunities every hour . As I said earlier and no wonder you have not paid attention, arbitrage opportunities are super rare and certainly, you need at least two casinos to exploit the +odds difference. You can easily show that it is not possible to do arbitrage by simple math. If there is a possibility of arbitrage you have to show your bet history from both casinos (hoping that you are not doing that.). Ofcourse, You can create a hypothetical situation (which I am sure you will do  ) whre it will be impossible to prove that you were not doing arbitrage betting, to which I have to say, bad luck man. It is like being in the wrong spot at wrong time  
Again, let me restate that no reputable casino is built on robbing players.

Yes in fact there is thousands of arbitrage betting opporutunities every hour, they are not super rare and it is just simple math.
Once again proving you are just yapping in this thread without knowing anything, please go watch a simple video to educate yourself.

Again let me restate that you're a moron, 97% of sites do not steal funds, the small percentage that do deserve to be flamed and criticized.

[Rating Place]

The book has no idea if you are arbitrage betting since they don't know if you have a second book. The rule makes no sense. If the book doesn't want your action, then they should pay the player and ban him.

[Wapfika]

The book has no idea if you are arbitrage betting since they don't know if you have a second book. The rule makes no sense. If the book doesn't want your action, then they should pay the player and ban him.

There’s problem is bookmaker usually have connections to each other that’s why they can cross examine accounts that doing arbitrage even from different casino.

Bookie connection is the only why they caught arbitrage betting or else you’re right that they don’t have any idea about arbitrage betting.

They will not care if you are doing arbitrage because they are not losing rather the other books in every successful arbitrage.

[Rating Place]

The book has no idea if you are arbitrage betting since they don't know if you have a second book. The rule makes no sense. If the book doesn't want your action, then they should pay the player and ban him.

There’s problem is bookmaker usually have connections to each other that’s why they can cross examine accounts that doing arbitrage even from different casino.

Bookie connection is the only why they caught arbitrage betting or else you’re right that they don’t have any idea about arbitrage betting.

They will not care if you are doing arbitrage because they are not losing rather the other books in every successful arbitrage.

They communicate with each other but that's not how they are labeling someone an arbitrage bettor. They are guessing. They just assume that a person always getting the best line is an arbitrage bettor. Stake, Sportsbet, Rollbit, BC.game all steal with arbitrage rule and multi-accounting. Scam accusations says it all.

[Cointxz]

These providers operate across multiple platforms and share intelligence about suspicious behavior, including arbitrage patterns. If you’re taking one side of a market on one site and the opposite on another — they see both sides.

It’s normal for them to become aggressive because all this bookie will suffer shared losses if they allow continuous arbitrage betting due to +EV on every bets.

This is a huge amount of loss from all of them if there’s a bunch of user doing this method on large scale bet. As business, they will not allow a guaranteed profit because their operations profit will be affected.

[DGUDGUDGU]

The book has no idea if you are arbitrage betting since they don't know if you have a second book. The rule makes no sense. If the book doesn't want your action, then they should pay the player and ban him.

There’s problem is bookmaker usually have connections to each other that’s why they can cross examine accounts that doing arbitrage even from different casino.

Bookie connection is the only why they caught arbitrage betting or else you’re right that they don’t have any idea about arbitrage betting.

They will not care if you are doing arbitrage because they are not losing rather the other books in every successful arbitrage.

They communicate with each other but that's not how they are labeling someone an arbitrage bettor. They are guessing. They just assume that a person always getting the best line is an arbitrage bettor. Stake, Sportsbet, Rollbit, BC.game all steal with arbitrage rule and multi-accounting. Scam accusations says it all.

After checking their terms of service the only one with a rule against "arbitrage" is BC.GAME which is a massive red flag, I will never play there again.
I personally have played at all 4 and got paid out whilst EV betting, rollbit is extremely dodgy with all the false multi-account flags.

But sportsbet & stake for me were always super reputable books.

[DGUDGUDGU]

These providers operate across multiple platforms and share intelligence about suspicious behavior, including arbitrage patterns. If you’re taking one side of a market on one site and the opposite on another — they see both sides.

It’s normal for them to become aggressive because all this bookie will suffer shared losses if they allow continuous arbitrage betting due to +EV on every bets.

This is a huge amount of loss from all of them if there’s a bunch of user doing this method on large scale bet. As business, they will not allow a guaranteed profit because their operations profit will be affected.

They would suffer some small losses, but overall they are still printing an insane amount of money.
The very small amount of EV gained by sharps is absolutely miniscule compared to the losses of casino players and rec sports bettors.

It's literally like a drop in the ocean for these bigger companies, they can also manage their risk accordingly and cut users off (without stealing funds ofc).

[Rating Place]

It's simple. Bad books steal with the arbitrage rule. Good books don't use the arbitrage rule.

[DaNNy001]

The answer is easy.

Arbitrage betting makes you win in the long run. As you are already aware, most gamblers lose in the term. If the players were the winners, then the casino would be the loser.

Since both the player and the casino can’t be the winners at the same time, the casino can’t afford to have long term winning players making bets on the casino.

That’s why in the ToS they usually ban arbitrage/EV betting.

If you can’t handle this, don’t play.

We only hear about arbitrage betting but have we really come across people that do it and make Profit from it that they can prove to you...if arbitrage is profitable as they say it is why aren't gamblers Interested in finding ways to get the trick..I asked someone a question and he couldn't answer, my question was" where do people get arbitrage games" because I know that the predictions comes from somewhere.

[Rating Place]

The answer is easy.

Arbitrage betting makes you win in the long run. As you are already aware, most gamblers lose in the term. If the players were the winners, then the casino would be the loser.

Since both the player and the casino can’t be the winners at the same time, the casino can’t afford to have long term winning players making bets on the casino.

That’s why in the ToS they usually ban arbitrage/EV betting.

If you can’t handle this, don’t play.

We only hear about arbitrage betting but have we really come across people that do it and make Profit from it that they can prove to you...if arbitrage is profitable as they say it is why aren't gamblers Interested in finding ways to get the trick..I asked someone a question and he couldn't answer, my question was" where do people get arbitrage games" because I know that the predictions comes from somewhere.

There are a lot of pay sites that will give you arbitrage plays or you can use a bot. Betburger, Oddsjam (US). You'll get banned fast unless you play at something such as Pinnacle or Bitcoin-Betting. I've used them but I normally play the weak side instead of arbing.

[UberV]

Interesting. Are there any lawyers on this forum?
I wonder if the bookmaker's rules are the law? In the sense that in normal countries it has long been forbidden for any organization to write in small print rules that openly violate the rights of citizens. If the bookmaker writes in the rules that there is no desire in the match, it may not pay you and you agree with these rules upon registration. Is it possible, in case of refusal to pay your money, to file a lawsuit and resolve the situation in your favor???

Why am I asking this!? Because confiscation of winnings is essentially also illegal, and even more so confiscation of deposits. I want to ask a lawyer. If another bookmaker steals money, referring to its rules. To what extent is such an action legal??? I understand that having a small amount in the account, going to court is extremely expensive. But what if each complaint is sent to a pool of collective complaints with subsequent sending to court, if the required amount is collected!?
Will this be a new stage of interaction between players and bookmakers, when theft under any pretext will be severely punished? And only one way will remain for the bookmaker - to become a professional, work without "mistakes", stop giving out bonuses that cannot be taken, etc., etc.

[EluguHcman]

Just recently I encountered a problem that some casinos (not all) refuse to verify your account before you start playing! When asked why? they simply answer "we have such rules". Then I tried to convey to the Bitcointalk community that such a refusal may of course be in the casino rules, but it simply must have a negative rating! This is bad form! And the refusal to verify your account before you start playing directly indicates a dishonest trick on the part of the casino, which allows you to cancel your winnings in case of violating the casino rules, but does not prevent you from losing your new and new deposits over and over again. Considering that 98% of players lose everything over the long term, then there is a very high probability that, knowing in advance that you are violating the rules, the casino keeps silent about it and accepts your money until you suddenly get lucky and want to withdraw something!

That is the more more reasons why we should always read the terms and conditions of the casinos. Sometimes we dive into the problematic pool by ourselves due to igbirants.

In some cases, the regulating casinos my restrict your region not to play in their site but due to the fact you have access to the site as a case that it is an online, some bettors would still dare and get their money deposited in the site and when making withdrawal request and you get denied would feel like the are cheating on you while it was your fault.

Even in most cases like that, the casino will reject to accept your documents simply because they don't give support to your region but yet you will still remain persistent finding all mean to maneuver while the risks awaits you ahead.

What similar experience I have learnt so far about the regulating casinos in terms of players not updated their KYCs is that some casinos may limited you from accessing some of it features while some may give you access to their site but not giving you access to play but when you tends to maneuver, that will be the end because you have violated their terms but reputable casinos will totally deny access to anyone who is not qualified and not even a deposit to the site would they give you access to.

[Cointxz]

These providers operate across multiple platforms and share intelligence about suspicious behavior, including arbitrage patterns. If you’re taking one side of a market on one site and the opposite on another — they see both sides.

It’s normal for them to become aggressive because all this bookie will suffer shared losses if they allow continuous arbitrage betting due to +EV on every bets.

This is a huge amount of loss from all of them if there’s a bunch of user doing this method on large scale bet. As business, they will not allow a guaranteed profit because their operations profit will be affected.

They would suffer some small losses, but overall they are still printing an insane amount of money.
The very small amount of EV gained by sharps is absolutely miniscule compared to the losses of casino players and rec sports bettors.

It's literally like a drop in the ocean for these bigger companies, they can also manage their risk accordingly and cut users off (without stealing funds ofc).

You’re right that they are earning big in other players but they’re still business so they need to cut those guaranteed negative profit as much as possible regardless if the amount is small.

That amount will accumulate over time especially if lots of players starting to follow the trend.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

Arbitrage is not what i can recommend for any gambler to use, because it is not acceptable by so many gambling platforms, knowing this is not enough reason to why we must use such, after all, if we are to look into the statistics of gamblers available all over the world, we are going to discover that most gamblers don't use such and some are not even aware of the same strategy ever existed, because it goes along with violation of the casino terms.

[Rating Place]

Arbitrage is not what i can recommend for any gambler to use, because it is not acceptable by so many gambling platforms, knowing this is not enough reason to why we must use such, after all, if we are to look into the statistics of gamblers available all over the world, we are going to discover that most gamblers don't use such and some are not even aware of the same strategy ever existed, because it goes along with violation of the casino terms.

Then how do you define someone that arbitrages? It's a pure guess. I use lines that I can arb all the time but I play the line at good books that don't steal. I only play one side.

Interesting. Are there any lawyers on this forum?
I wonder if the bookmaker's rules are the law? In the sense that in normal countries it has long been forbidden for any organization to write in small print rules that openly violate the rights of citizens. If the bookmaker writes in the rules that there is no desire in the match, it may not pay you and you agree with these rules upon registration. Is it possible, in case of refusal to pay your money, to file a lawsuit and resolve the situation in your favor???

Why am I asking this!? Because confiscation of winnings is essentially also illegal, and even more so confiscation of deposits. I want to ask a lawyer. If another bookmaker steals money, referring to its rules. To what extent is such an action legal??? I understand that having a small amount in the account, going to court is extremely expensive. But what if each complaint is sent to a pool of collective complaints with subsequent sending to court, if the required amount is collected!?
Will this be a new stage of interaction between players and bookmakers, when theft under any pretext will be severely punished? And only one way will remain for the bookmaker - to become a professional, work without "mistakes", stop giving out bonuses that cannot be taken, etc., etc.

The rule is illegal and wouldn't hold up in court. The same where they can steal deposits if you multi-account.

[aprotya]

Why this theme is not on the first place? 

[Hispo]

Arbitrage is not what i can recommend for any gambler to use, because it is not acceptable by so many gambling platforms, knowing this is not enough reason to why we must use such, after all, if we are to look into the statistics of gamblers available all over the world, we are going to discover that most gamblers don't use such and some are not even aware of the same strategy ever existed, because it goes along with violation of the casino terms.

Arbitrage is okey as long as it is allowed by the platforms one uses to try to get money out the market, like exchanges of cryptocurrencies, which have no problems with people arbitraging among exchanges. On the other hand, the way arbitrage is seen on casinos it is pretty different, as it is seen as a detrimental practice for the well-being of the markets and the bookie itself, not even mention it defeats the purpose of betting itself, which is having money at risk, with performing arbitrage on the betting markets there is actually no money at risk.

Not even mention one needs to have a huge amount of bankroll to successfully take advantage of arbitrage and that bankroll could be confiscated by casinos as soon as they confirm you are breaking their terms of service... It is not worth the risk in my opinion, there are way safer and time-proven ways to pocket some money through arbitrage.