Is the World Ready for Life After “Safe Havens”?

[mrust_mobile]

The dollar doesn’t look as safe as It used to anymore. Gold and bitcoin are far better choices. Obviously it doesn’t make sense to abandon the dollar completely, yet as I also hodl some usd in my portfolio for dip buying purposes mostly.

Gold though, has been making crazy moves lately. I remember it was as low as 1000 usd/ounce in 2015 and nowadays it is 3300-3400 usd/ounce which is crazy when you think about it.

Why even invest in stocks when gold exists?

[coupable]

Bitcoin has provided great opportunities to find safe and user-friendly havens, so no one can predict what might happen in the medium and long term, or perhaps even the near term.

You don't need to echo what Bitcoin can do again, we all know that and the context is beyond that. I've also mentioned it and everything still revolves around privacy, decentralisation and investment, nothing more.

Are you telling me this will now reshape the entire economics of the world? Then you are joking, it can't go beyond what we see now, but of course, expect more regulation that will indirectly reduce the benefits in the future.

In other words, what we can enjoy in Bitcoin is the the investment/business opportunity, privacy and reduction in government control. But such can't reshape the world's finance/commerce at large.

Since this is a discussion where we address several possibilities, my view is based on real facts/data, and I believe I am not talking nonsense in any case. I consider Bitcoin a store of value, meaning it can be compared as gold, and I do not consider it merely an exchangeable currency, despite its good performance as a currency and as a payments system. Based on this, I rule out the possibility of Bitcoin ever being able to replace the dollar or any other fiat currency. Rather, I expect that we will witness the launch of currencies in the market that are backed by Bitcoin, just as fiat currencies are backed by gold. Please discuss my ideas without provocation, as I am in a civilized discussion and I am not here to harshly defend any idea. Thanks

[goldkingcoiner]

There is no such thing as safe in this world. Only the illusion of safe, which is why we airports have their security theater, aka the TSA, and banks have government bailouts. What if we invented a technology that could turn one lead into gold without using a lot of energy? Would gold not become basically worthless and everyone who was holding gold would also lose their "safe haven" investment?

[Bitcoin Smith]

"Every Good thing must come to an end" and USD is losing it's trust especially after the Covid because they just started injecting money into the economy more that didn't happen in their history for decades so what they are feeling now is just the after effects of immediate printing money.

If the government didn't print money to save the economy, could we survive the pandemic? Don't blame them because they saved us when the pandemic happened. If they don't print money, can the economy grow as population increases and demand increases?...Printing money is not always a bad thing, it is only bad when it is printed out of control. Likewise, inflation is not always bad for the economy, it only becomes bad when it gets out of control.

There will be some immediate effects but it could have been solved by now but what they did will reflect a lot longer than we can imagine and the same people has to bear all the burden from inflation to increase in taxes. And to be honest money they print didn't really helped everyone it just kept the economy afloat making rich the richer so they got more benefits and with inflation again they enjoy it while the average person has to struggle to meet their ends with no increase in salary while cost of everything increased a lot.

[yamin_galib]

In my opinion the traditional safety nets don't feel so safe anymore. Wheneven major institutions start migrating away from the dollar it’s a clear sign that something fundamental is changing.

What we are seeing that, Gold and Bitcoin aren’t simply hype at this point they’re becoming actual solutions for protecting value in a world that’s increasingly tougher to forecast.

[Die_empty]

The dollar doesn’t look as safe as It used to anymore. Gold and bitcoin are far better choices. Obviously it doesn’t make sense to abandon the dollar completely, yet as I also hodl some usd in my portfolio for dip buying purposes mostly.

Keeping dollars might be ideal for people in countries whose currency experiences a consistent drop in value. My country's currency lost close to 50% of its value in one year. People began to convert their money to dollars while those with crypto knowledge turned to Bitcoin. 

There is no such thing as safe in this world. Only the illusion of safe, which is why we airports have their security theater, aka the TSA, and banks have government bailouts. What if we invented a technology that could turn one lead into gold without using a lot of energy? Would gold not become basically worthless and everyone who was holding gold would also lose their "safe haven" investment?

Every asset had some level of risk that investors wiuos have take. Safe havens are assets that people think have lesser risk. They are also considered as safe havens because  of public perception. No asset is really safe.

[JiiBs]

I'm not certain financial "safe havens" existed before or after the Great Depression.

Doomsday preppers recommend buying bars of gold and burying them in locations where they can be retrieved later.

Aside from that, there isn't much of a handbook.

I don’t really think any money in the world really prepares one for a safe haven. That’s to mean, even with all your accumulations, once you have the value of your stack dropping, the investor mindset of yours would always push you to try and do more as to increase it. This would eventually put you right back into trying to invest and earn on them.

Speaking of Doomsday, I’ve always seen this to be more of a Hollywood fiction that would remain as that, a fiction. Humanity will always find a way.

[Smartprofit]

Well, gold has never been speculative, it has been deliberately made such an asset for several decades in a row by speculators in London. They told everyone that it was the same product as, for example, coal, even worse! Because it has no uses other than jewelry... But gold has never been a commodity. Gold is money in its perfect form. Now everything is back to normal.

But with bitcoin, not everything is as good as with gold. Because Bitcoin is subject to control. First of all, the price of bitcoin can be controlled by large holders. The network itself is completely controlled by the miners. That is, it is enough to control the miners to control the network. Most of the mining facilities are located in the United States, where the government will have no difficulty controlling anything, including the miners too.

Therefore, the largest countries consider bitcoin only as a situational tool that is convenient for calculations at the moment, but not as a currency of the future or an investment. However, I think that bitcoin, nevertheless, will be widely used by individuals when capital is fleeing from treasuries and other assets, because there are very few alternatives.

By declaring a trade war against China, the American government has completely changed all the rules of the game in the geopolitical space.

As a result, the world will most likely never be the same again. China has a lot of American treasury bonds. At the same time, they cannot sell them at once (since it is simply impossible to find buyers for such a volume of bonds). At the same time, the Communist Party of China no longer considers American treasury bonds as a reliable asset. They would be happy to get rid of this asset completely (but they cannot).

In these conditions, Bitcoin seems to be a very good alternative to American stocks and American treasury bonds. I do not quite agree with the thesis that Bitcoin is controlled by Americans (Bitcoin is a fairly decentralized asset, its miners and owners are located in different parts of the globe).

At the same time, Bitcoin has a significant advantage over gold - gold is very difficult to transport across borders, gold is not well suited for cross-border transactions, gold is easier to counterfeit than Bitcoin.

[kotajikikox]

I'm not certain financial "safe havens" existed before or after the Great Depression.

Doomsday preppers recommend buying bars of gold and burying them in locations where they can be retrieved later.

Aside from that, there isn't much of a handbook.

I don’t really think any money in the world really prepares one for a safe haven. That’s to mean, even with all your accumulations, once you have the value of your stack dropping, the investor mindset of yours would always push you to try and do more as to increase it. This would eventually put you right back into trying to invest and earn on them.

Call it survival instinct, I guess. But the point is that there are assets that would decline faster than most and so choosing to invest in assets that would be considered safe for longer would be the ideal way. We should always try to aim to earn more but in case of emergencies or worst case scenarios, you would want to have the most money kept.

Speaking of Doomsday, I’ve always seen this to be more of a Hollywood fiction that would remain as that, a fiction. Humanity will always find a way.

You never know. Anything can happen so better safe than sorry, right?

[GigaBit]

It is not that the dollar will retain its value forever and will be the sole global currency. We have seen in history that other currencies have also taken a place as global currencies before the dollar. Currently, people's interest in the dollar has decreased and more interest has been created in gold and Bitcoin. People are now looking for a reliable platform for the security of their assets where they can safely store their assets and that is why they find Bitcoin to be the most useful. We know that the dominance of the dollar will not end easily, but people are gradually changing their thinking.

[viljy]

Well, gold has never been speculative, it has been deliberately made such an asset for several decades in a row by speculators in London. They told everyone that it was the same product as, for example, coal, even worse! Because it has no uses other than jewelry... But gold has never been a commodity. Gold is money in its perfect form. Now everything is back to normal.

But with bitcoin, not everything is as good as with gold. Because Bitcoin is subject to control. First of all, the price of bitcoin can be controlled by large holders. The network itself is completely controlled by the miners. That is, it is enough to control the miners to control the network. Most of the mining facilities are located in the United States, where the government will have no difficulty controlling anything, including the miners too.

Therefore, the largest countries consider bitcoin only as a situational tool that is convenient for calculations at the moment, but not as a currency of the future or an investment. However, I think that bitcoin, nevertheless, will be widely used by individuals when capital is fleeing from treasuries and other assets, because there are very few alternatives.

By declaring a trade war against China, the American government has completely changed all the rules of the game in the geopolitical space.

As a result, the world will most likely never be the same again. China has a lot of American treasury bonds. At the same time, they cannot sell them at once (since it is simply impossible to find buyers for such a volume of bonds). At the same time, the Communist Party of China no longer considers American treasury bonds as a reliable asset. They would be happy to get rid of this asset completely (but they cannot).

In these conditions, Bitcoin seems to be a very good alternative to American stocks and American treasury bonds. I do not quite agree with the thesis that Bitcoin is controlled by Americans (Bitcoin is a fairly decentralized asset, its miners and owners are located in different parts of the globe).

At the same time, Bitcoin has a significant advantage over gold - gold is very difficult to transport across borders, gold is not well suited for cross-border transactions, gold is easier to counterfeit than Bitcoin.

The United States is in first place in terms of hash power. Miners in the United States control 35% of the hash power of the bitcoin network. You must agree, this is a lot if we consider decentralization by country. Kazakhstan is in second place, which controls 18% of the hash power. Russia is in third place. For example, if the economic situation in Kazakhstan regarding miners changes (electricity prices, taxes on miners, etc.) and they can migrate to the United States, where more than 50% of the hash capacity will be concentrated.

If military conflicts escalate, ocean communication cables may be damaged and the unified Internet will split into segments, in any case, poor connectivity makes mining difficult with weak hash capacities. That is, in fact, the bitcoin network is quite fragile in extreme conditions.

As for the difficulty of transporting gold, this problem has been successfully solved for centuries by sufficient security. For example, it would not be difficult for the United States to send an aircraft carrier with a squadron to guard a convoy of gold, if necessary, so the inconvenience of transportation is not such a serious problem.

[Smartprofit]

Well, gold has never been speculative, it has been deliberately made such an asset for several decades in a row by speculators in London. They told everyone that it was the same product as, for example, coal, even worse! Because it has no uses other than jewelry... But gold has never been a commodity. Gold is money in its perfect form. Now everything is back to normal.

But with bitcoin, not everything is as good as with gold. Because Bitcoin is subject to control. First of all, the price of bitcoin can be controlled by large holders. The network itself is completely controlled by the miners. That is, it is enough to control the miners to control the network. Most of the mining facilities are located in the United States, where the government will have no difficulty controlling anything, including the miners too.

Therefore, the largest countries consider bitcoin only as a situational tool that is convenient for calculations at the moment, but not as a currency of the future or an investment. However, I think that bitcoin, nevertheless, will be widely used by individuals when capital is fleeing from treasuries and other assets, because there are very few alternatives.

By declaring a trade war against China, the American government has completely changed all the rules of the game in the geopolitical space.

As a result, the world will most likely never be the same again. China has a lot of American treasury bonds. At the same time, they cannot sell them at once (since it is simply impossible to find buyers for such a volume of bonds). At the same time, the Communist Party of China no longer considers American treasury bonds as a reliable asset. They would be happy to get rid of this asset completely (but they cannot).

In these conditions, Bitcoin seems to be a very good alternative to American stocks and American treasury bonds. I do not quite agree with the thesis that Bitcoin is controlled by Americans (Bitcoin is a fairly decentralized asset, its miners and owners are located in different parts of the globe).

At the same time, Bitcoin has a significant advantage over gold - gold is very difficult to transport across borders, gold is not well suited for cross-border transactions, gold is easier to counterfeit than Bitcoin.

The United States is in first place in terms of hash power. Miners in the United States control 35% of the hash power of the bitcoin network. You must agree, this is a lot if we consider decentralization by country. Kazakhstan is in second place, which controls 18% of the hash power. Russia is in third place. For example, if the economic situation in Kazakhstan regarding miners changes (electricity prices, taxes on miners, etc.) and they can migrate to the United States, where more than 50% of the hash capacity will be concentrated.

If military conflicts escalate, ocean communication cables may be damaged and the unified Internet will split into segments, in any case, poor connectivity makes mining difficult with weak hash capacities. That is, in fact, the bitcoin network is quite fragile in extreme conditions.

As for the difficulty of transporting gold, this problem has been successfully solved for centuries by sufficient security. For example, it would not be difficult for the United States to send an aircraft carrier with a squadron to guard a convoy of gold, if necessary, so the inconvenience of transportation is not such a serious problem.

Yes, it is possible that American mining pools control 35 percent of the computing power of the Bitcoin network...

But we must not forget that a mining pool, as a rule, consists of individual miners who join the floor for commercial reasons. At the same time, these miners can freely move from one pool to another, and even create their own pools.

Of course, there are exceptions to this rule - for example, the American mining pool "Mara" - they do not allow "foreign" miners to join them. And it is this circumstance that makes us suspect that this American pool works directly for the American government.

At the same time, I do not rule out that Bitcoin is more decentralized than it seems. It is quite possible that the Chinese Communist Party has found some secret way to secretly mine Bitcoin. North Korea and rich Arab states are probably mining Bitcoin as well.

As for gold, sending a whole convoy of American aircraft carriers every time for one transaction is, in my opinion, not very rational.  Moreover, warships can be sunk very easily with the help of sea drones and missiles. There have already been examples of successful attacks on American aircraft carriers (and repairing such a large warship is very expensive).

[Alpha Marine]

I disagree though, I think US dollar is still a safe haven that's why there are a lot of countries still holding it. Of course there is the old and traditional Gold for every nation as it has been proven to be a safe haven specially after the world war that's why governments around the world is accumulating it.

I don't disagree that the dollar is a safe haven. I agree. It still has a lot of trust among nations, but what is happening now is that people are looking for alternatives, just in case. So if people are preparing for an "in case", it means that thing is not as trusted as it used to be. People didn't really care about alternatives before; it was gold and the US dollars, but now, people are looking for more because what they're used to may not be enough.

I'm one of those who believe that the US dollar will be a strong and an international trade currency for a long time, ll the talks of de-dollarisation won't change much because what they offer is not better than the dollar, but the point is, now, people want other things, people want alternatives, just in case.

[Die_empty]

I don't disagree that the dollar is a safe haven. I agree. It still has a lot of trust among nations, but what is happening now is that people are looking for alternatives, just in case. So if people are preparing for an "in case", it means that thing is not as trusted as it used to be. People didn't really care about alternatives before; it was gold and the US dollars, but now, people are looking for more because what they're used to may not be enough.

I'm one of those who believe that the US dollar will be a strong and an international trade currency for a long time, ll the talks of de-dollarisation won't change much because what they offer is not better than the dollar, but the point is, now, people want other things, people want alternatives, just in case.

The push for dedollarization is increasing among top BRICS member states but the US dominance over trade transactions is an impediment. Many countries still trade with the US on a large scale and you would need the dollars to make or receive payments.

The loss of confidence the dollar is going through due to Trump's tarriff is forcing people to seek other safe haven assets. Bitcoin is gaining popularity as a safe asset and it's good that people have more investment options.

[Iranus]

There will be some immediate effects but it could have been solved by now but what they did will reflect a lot longer than we can imagine and the same people has to bear all the burden from inflation to increase in taxes. And to be honest money they print didn't really helped everyone it just kept the economy afloat making rich the richer so they got more benefits and with inflation again they enjoy it while the average person has to struggle to meet their ends with no increase in salary while cost of everything increased a lot.

Managing and regulating the national economy has never been easy as the population is increasing, supply and demand cannot be balanced because countries are interdependent, no country can be self-sufficient. Not to mention unpredictable impacts such as war, natural disasters, earthquakes, pandemics...there are hundreds of things that need to be handled to maintain the economy.

Those things alone, what would happen if the government didn't print money or our economy continued to use the gold standard? Like the pandemic, if they don't print money, how will poor people like us survive?

I do not deny that printing money too quickly will cause unpredictable consequences, but we should not blame them all just because we are poor. We don't even know how the economy works, it's beyond our understanding.

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

I disagree though, I think US dollar is still a safe haven that's why there are a lot of countries still holding it. Of course there is the old and traditional Gold for every nation as it has been proven to be a safe haven specially after the world war that's why governments around the world is accumulating it.

I don't disagree that the dollar is a safe haven. I agree. It still has a lot of trust among nations, but what is happening now is that people are looking for alternatives, just in case. So if people are preparing for an "in case", it means that thing is not as trusted as it used to be. People didn't really care about alternatives before; it was gold and the US dollars, but now, people are looking for more because what they're used to may not be enough.

I'm one of those who believe that the US dollar will be a strong and an international trade currency for a long time, ll the talks of de-dollarisation won't change much because what they offer is not better than the dollar, but the point is, now, people want other things, people want alternatives, just in case.

Nations around the world has been looking for alternatives for decades though and wanting to challenge the dollar, and we have some alternatives like, Gold. And obviously we have Bitcoin as well.

However, we all know that BRICS is "trying" very hard but to no avail. Even Chinese Yuan too. So although they are looking for alternatives, I don't think that in the next 20-30 years, there will be de-dolarization. As long as the US is going to be the biggest country, their dollar will remain on top even if there are alternatives that might sound viable, but they are not yet proven. Maybe we can say Bitcoin, as it is used during Covid-19, but it you look at it, US is also dominating in this category.

[EarnOnVictor]

Bitcoin has provided great opportunities to find safe and user-friendly havens, so no one can predict what might happen in the medium and long term, or perhaps even the near term.

You don't need to echo what Bitcoin can do again, we all know that and the context is beyond that. I've also mentioned it and everything still revolves around privacy, decentralisation and investment, nothing more.

Are you telling me this will now reshape the entire economics of the world? Then you are joking, it can't go beyond what we see now, but of course, expect more regulation that will indirectly reduce the benefits in the future.

In other words, what we can enjoy in Bitcoin is the the investment/business opportunity, privacy and reduction in government control. But such can't reshape the world's finance/commerce at large.

Since this is a discussion where we address several possibilities, my view is based on real facts/data, and I believe I am not talking nonsense in any case. I consider Bitcoin a store of value, meaning it can be compared as gold, and I do not consider it merely an exchangeable currency, despite its good performance as a currency and as a payments system.

This shows that you don't even know what you are talking about, perhaps, you do not know what this thread is talking about.

As I said earlier, forget about the bullshit of what Bitcoin or Gold can do, but how Bitcoin in particular can reshape the entire economy of the world. This is not about repeating the benefits of Bitcoin, we all know that, but since you've projected that it will change the world's economics and balance, I want you to tell me how bank/fiat and the other world's current economic structure will not exist again and be replaced with decentralised systems just because of Bitcoin.

You are dreaming, brother! Just enjoy your Bitcoin the way you can, it will not service you more than what it's doing now (decentralisation as an asset, the business/investment/trading benefits, low fees and cross border payments), nothing more. The world economics and structures will not change just because of decentralised asset(s).

[fuguebtc]

The world economics and structures will not change just because of decentralised asset(s).

Of course, our world and economy will still be the same, it will still be a centralized world managed and regulated by governments and central banks . They will still control us through regulations and monetary policy .  The birth of bitcoin just made the world a little more interesting because we had another asset to invest in, an alternative payment method...nothing more. Bitcoin will not change the world or create a new and more perfect world...it is all just an illusion of some investors.

It can't even help the economy and situation of a country, how can we expect it to change the world? Instead of thinking that the world will change because of bitcoin, think the opposite, bitcoin needs to change if it wants to survive in the world.

[davis196]

The one and only true "safe heaven" asset is... Gold. Fiat currencies cannot serve as a "safe heaven" assets. The US dollar was a temporary "safe heaven" asset, mostly because the USA got used to accumulating giant budget deficits and a growing national debt. No global empire(or should I say "global superpower") can maintain it's national currency as a safe and stable financial asset in the long run. Fiat currencies have to be devalued, in order to boost the export of goods and to reduce the import of goods.
I don't want to start again the conversation about whether Bitcoin is a "safe heaven" asset or not. There were tons of forum threads about this topic. I still don't believe that BTC is a true "safe heaven" for the investors, who hate risk and seek security for their wealth.

[Ishicryptic]

The US losing its “safe haven” status isn’t just about Wall Street. It changes how global trade, savings, and everyday life might work in the next decade. When traditional safe assets start losing trust, alternatives like Bitcoin and gold start looking less like “speculation” and more like insurance against government mistakes, currency wars, or runaway debt

Despite any shortcomings that the US dollar is experiencing presently it still remains the top currency in the world today, no doubt about that and I see it remaining in that top position despite all odds. We don't know what will happen in the far future but now and the foreseeable future gold and Bitcoin will still remain alternatives for trades and reserves. I think that it is a good thing that people and other governments have these alternatives so there won't be any panic if US dollar doesn't live up to expectations anymore. What I foresee is that the dependant on the dollar for reserve and international trade will not be what it has always been for decades, countries can confidently hold and trade gold and Bitcoin because they don't have any direct centralized control.