Bitcoin in the next decade

[elman007]

Would government fold their hands and not try to make devs push a protocol that would favour them? I doubt, I understand we have miners and full nodes for checks and the open source process and peer review make covert protocol changes difficult. But we can't deny that Dev still have some influence (I used them as example since they are smaller in numbers).

I've also want to question about this, because it's unlikely the government will sit idly by and watch this happen naturally, and there will certainly be political pressure that could influence developers to push protocols that benefit them. But seeing Bitcoin grow and become so widely adopted, perhaps some investors never care about how this happens because they're focused on how investing can lead them to financial freedom. I also want to ask if this could impact Bitcoin's future trajectory, as more government intervention usually leads to bias, and they don't support decentralization.

If the government really thinks that it will impose its rules and regulations on developers, especially regarding Bitcoin, then the government is in a state of delusion. Because Bitcoin is decentralized, the government or the state has no right to impose its laws. If the government has such a thought, then it is in a state of delusion. Bitcoin was created to survive government-based texts or oppression. So I think it is better for the government not to impose any tax texts or oppression on developers with Bitcoin.

[slaman29]

I tend to be more proactive than you slaman29 - yet of course, each conversation will depend on the person and whether they are asking questions or if I am telling them about bitcoin and they are not asking any questions. 

If we end up having a longer conversation in which I have gotten  to the point of suggesting that they buy bitcoin, then I will make sure to say that they are completely responsible for their own investment choices.. and I will say that they should probably study bitcoin, even after they have already decided to buy some. I will also tend to warn them about shitcoins, whether the topic of shitcoin comes up or not, I will warn them not to get involved in shitcoins.  ...and yeah if we are talking about ways that they might source their coins, I might have to ask them if they already know about ways to source their coins....

I can totally understand and respect this coming from you, who I know to be much more familiar and knowledgeable, with good substance backing your words.

For me it is a bit of bad experience from the past, that makes me question my own confidence and credibility plus also just some very very bad personal memories during forex trading days that some friends blamed me even until today. It didn't matter right or wrong they still blamed me.

Like you, I definitely do more warning especially about altcoins, and even about trading (that they must be prepared to start from losing position).

Sometimes especially even in forum here I cannot help myself, to be proactive in warning people. Especially when they sound so excited like they found a method or a strategy or a loophole etc etc. It reminds me of myself in my early days

[ancafe]

I don't like the idea of people wanting the government to invest into Bitcoin. If we are honest with each other, this government is going to like to take over everything and then gain control. There is no way the government is going to invest trillions of dollars into an asset and expect them not to have a single control of that market. We should see the things they are doing to Gold and other assets that are the biggest market worldwide, they have influence on their market.

This may be a concern because sometimes governments themselves attempt to control the assets they hold, as in some previous investment methods. Furthermore, we can compare the narrative regarding strategic reserves held by the US government, but in reality, they actually obtained those assets through confiscation. This demonstrates another bias, perhaps subconsciously, in their attempts to exploit existing potential which generally boils down to one interest the issue of profit.

If simply taking a part in the investment approach like a typical institution, it might not be a problem, but what we worry about is the impact of complete control which is not in line with the intentions of Bitcoin's creators. In the end, this is only seen based on our personal observations, but in general, I cannot say what the results will be with the limited knowledge that we have.

[DiMarxist]

This may be a concern because sometimes governments themselves attempt to control the assets they hold, as in some previous investment methods. Furthermore, we can compare the narrative regarding strategic reserves held by the US government, but in reality, they actually obtained those assets through confiscation. This demonstrates another bias, perhaps subconsciously, in their attempts to exploit existing potential which generally boils down to one interest the issue of profit.

If simply taking a part in the investment approach like a typical institution, it might not be a problem, but what we worry about is the impact of complete control which is not in line with the intentions of Bitcoin's creators. In the end, this is only seen based on our personal observations, but in general, I cannot say what the results will be with the limited knowledge that we have.

History shows that when government accumulate assets, control can gradually replace neutrality, most especially when those assets were acquired through a non market means like confiscation. That creates understandable skepticism about motives, which often come back to profit or influence rather than stewardship. Bitcoin’s original vision was clearly about decentralization and limiting concentrated power. So while government participation as a normal market actor might be manageable, outright control or dominance would conflict with that ethos and could distort the ecosystem. Given the limited data and how unprecedented this situation is, caution is reasonable and for now, most conclusions remain speculative rather than definitive.

[JayJuanGee]

I tend to be more proactive than you slaman29 - yet of course, each conversation will depend on the person and whether they are asking questions or if I am telling them about bitcoin and they are not asking any questions. 

If we end up having a longer conversation in which I have gotten  to the point of suggesting that they buy bitcoin, then I will make sure to say that they are completely responsible for their own investment choices.. and I will say that they should probably study bitcoin, even after they have already decided to buy some. I will also tend to warn them about shitcoins, whether the topic of shitcoin comes up or not, I will warn them not to get involved in shitcoins.  ...and yeah if we are talking about ways that they might source their coins, I might have to ask them if they already know about ways to source their coins....

I can totally understand and respect this coming from you, who I know to be much more familiar and knowledgeable, with good substance backing your words.

For me it is a bit of bad experience from the past, that makes me question my own confidence and credibility plus also just some very very bad personal memories during forex trading days that some friends blamed me even until today. It didn't matter right or wrong they still blamed me.

Hahahahahaha

You are right that maybe based on your experiences, you might have been too traumatized.  Surely, I am a bit reluctant to get blamed for things that were within another person's control, such as investment and financial matters, yet surely I have still come to feel bad when folks take their own approach that ends up screwing things ups.. so we cannot completely know all of their financial and personal matters. So for example in bitcoin, we might suggest that someone takes a position that is reasonably within their budget and then just DCA for 4 years or more, even though they might also have various lump sum investments along the way too... but yeah, they deviate from the planned approach and perhaps they are lacking some other aspects of perspective, so even if we might suggest that they study bitcoin  to get to know what it is, better, they may well not end up doing it.

Perhaps, based on your own experiences, you might have to start your conversation a little more straight-forward and hard core to make sure that they are more than clear that you are pointing out some aspects of bitcoin, yet they have to figure it out for themselves, and  even though you are suggesting that it is a good idea to get involved and buy some and to learn at the same time, they still have to figure out some budget that is what they are not afraid to lose in the event that bitcoin does not do well or that they execute the plan poorly.

Like you, I definitely do more warning especially about altcoins, and even about trading (that they must be prepared to start from losing position).

I understand that there are so many times that bitcoin will come up, but then the person does not really know about or have interest in bitcoin, but instead they want to talk about some shitcoin that they had heard about... So, yeah, even if we might try to direct them, they still might get distracted into some problematic areas - like their piqued interest  in how to get rich quick.  So surely if the conversation starts out and they are too distracted by shitcoins or perhaps the idea of trading, and they don't really want to talk about investing in bitcoin, then they might be too far gone, since any audience would need to be somewhat receptive in order for any kind of meaningful conversation to take place.  

I might be willing to talk a very small amount about shitcoins and/or trading just to point out why I don't like getting involved in either of them, but yeah, I will surely want to limit how much I talk about that and to even say that I do not recommend either of them... at least in the beginning, or at least to suggest that if they are wanting to do trading and/or shitcoining, then  at least to limit it to 10% the size of their bitcoin investment, since I am not really the kind of person to try to stop people from doing what they want to do, even though I am the kind of person who would like to make it clear that shitcoining and/or trading was not my idea or related to my ideas even though they are mentally making the connection of bitcoin to shitcoining and/or trading, and that relates to their own mindset rather than to my way of thinking about how to approach bitcoin with a 4-10 years  or longer investment timeframe in mind, which also should justify that they do not need to invest very much, just to figure out a way to get started and to just continue to do it while studying it at the same time.

I have had some cases in which I was talking to guys in their 60s, and they were concerned that they might not have at least a minimum of a 4 year timeline, and I would say that I don't recommend trading rather than investing, so I personally would be worried if a guy is getting started with less than a 4 year timeline..oh and by the way, some of those guys who were in their early to mid 60s in 2014-2016 when I was first talking with them about bitcoin, are then later on down the road in their age (mid-70s-ish) now... It can be complicated when the potential investment timeline is shorter, but then it ends up being the case that they would have had likely been way better off if they had invested into bitcoin in 2014-2016 when I was first telling them about it, yet surely there is also no way to really know in advance what the price (or other aspects of bitcoin) is going to end up doing, either.

Sometimes especially even in forum here I cannot help myself, to be proactive in warning people. Especially when they sound so excited like they found a method or a strategy or a loophole etc etc. It reminds me of myself in my early days

hahahaha.. yeah, guys get excited and even overly excited, so they likely have to figure out some ways to moderate in their own investment approach to bitcoin, and many times I have suggested that guys be as aggressive as they can without overdoing it, yet at the same time, we know that they are the ones who have to figure out  (both financially and psychologically) what is as aggressive as they can and what is overdoing it... since if they end up overdoing it, they are going to be the ones to suffer, not me... So they have to figure out.. how aggressive can they be without over doing it.

If they have questions, then we can help to give examples.. so for example, if a guy figures out that he has discretionary income, then he has the option to invest in bitcoin, yet discretionary income can be used for 1) investing, 2) saving and/or 3) consumption.  They likely need to allocate some of their discretionary income for each of those categories.. and of course, if they have a regular income, then it would be a bit easier to figure out each week how much they are able to allocate for each of the categories.. but yeah, if they end up messing it up.. then what can we do?

Frequently, we can suggest that any one investing into bitcoin should start out more conservatively and then as he gets more familiar with bitcoin then he can learn how to become more aggressive... in that regard, I personally believe that cashflow management skills are more important when investing into bitcoin as compared to not investing or perhaps investing in other areas, since bitcoin is quite liquid and volatile, which justifies protecting it from being tapped into at a time that is not of choosing, whether it is in "profits" or not.  

If a person is investing in bitcoin on a weekly basis for a whole cycle (4 years) then he should not be concerned about price, and perhaps reassess the matter after 4 years of accumulating bitcoin.  4 years seems like a long time, yet it seems to me that anyone who invests into bitcoin every week for 4 years, they would be incentivized to learn more about it, and so hopefully after  4 years investing in bitcoin, they will be more informed about bitcoin as compared to how informed about bitcoin they were when they first started.

If someone seems to be really interested in bitcoin and going to take further steps to get started investing into it, then I may well even let them know that they can contact me with any questions, yet surely I wouldn't necessarily have a lot of answers since a lot of what they need to do is figure out their own budget and how much they might want to invest into bitcoin, whether it might be 5% to 25% of their income or some other amount...and yeah, there might be limits in regards to how much I might want to know about their budget and/or their determination of their discretionary income and how much discretionary income they have and how much they want to dedicate to bitcoin investing.

[Achalugo BTC]

If the government really thinks that it will impose its rules and regulations on developers, especially regarding Bitcoin, then the government is in a state of delusion. Because Bitcoin is decentralized, the government or the state has no right to impose its laws. If the government has such a thought, then it is in a state of delusion. Bitcoin was created to survive government-based texts or oppression. So I think it is better for the government not to impose any tax texts or oppression on developers with Bitcoin.

No matter how they tried or impose any power regarding on Bitcoin, it will not affect the users that much and the most part of it, is that it can not be control by anyone which they can't stop the growth of Bitcoin despite their efforts.
That is why so many people are so interested to be a part of Bitcoin community because of the privilege they getting from it, by having financial freedom and so be in control of their funds and so many others reasons too.

[UpTober]

If someone seems to be really interested in bitcoin and going to take further steps to get started investing into it, then I may well even let them know that they can contact me with any questions, yet surely I wouldn't necessarily have a lot of answers since a lot of what they need to do is figure out their own budget and how much they might want to invest into bitcoin, whether it might be 5% to 25% of their income or some other amount...and yeah, there might be limits in regards to how much I might want to know about their budget and/or their determination of their discretionary income and how much discretionary income they have and how much they want to dedicate to bitcoin investing.

In the new situation, investors do not really have enough knowledge about this, which is why they want to depend on other people, especially those who know a little about investment.
Now, according to the little knowledge we have about investment, we can say that the amount we will invest will depend entirely on us because how much income we have, how much money is being spent in the family and how much money is left, but the other party does not know, so we have to make our own decisions. Another thing that happens to investors in the new situation is that they get confused about the fact that they are investing with relatively little money. You have said a great thing here that no amount of investment is small, yes, this is what investors should keep in mind. We are trying our best, this is important for our investment, yes, now we may be starting to invest with a small amount of money, but gradually when we know more about investment, we will be able to use more money for investment. 

If an investor invests consistently with a small amount of money and if he can do so comfortably, then he will definitely be able to hold on to his investment for a long time, but when an investor invests beyond his means, he will feel pressure to invest and with pressure, one cannot go very far.

[Tungbulu]

Impatient friends should not be given advice, and just left alone, they always gonna find ways to blame you partially for the mistakes they are guaranteed to make, now or tomrrow

I truly cut out so much crap from my life just by focusing on DCA easy, and by deleting all my socials! And while still keeping a little bit in touch with everything on Bitcoin (and 1% on other coins)

In the long run, people will always end up doing what they wanna do, no matter how much you advise them. I’ve learned this long ago which made me stop attempting to advise people on how to go about their investment, and the fact that they lack the ability to fully take responsibility for their failures makes it even more worse.

And yeah, there can really be a lot of distractions online and anyone who doesn’t really know what they’re doing can be easily influenced and maybe end up taking the wrong decisions, that’s why it takes folks with conviction to succeed in Bitcoin accumulation/investment.

[JayJuanGee]

If someone seems to be really interested in bitcoin and going to take further steps to get started investing into it, then I may well even let them know that they can contact me with any questions, yet surely I wouldn't necessarily have a lot of answers since a lot of what they need to do is figure out their own budget and how much they might want to invest into bitcoin, whether it might be 5% to 25% of their income or some other amount...and yeah, there might be limits in regards to how much I might want to know about their budget and/or their determination of their discretionary income and how much discretionary income they have and how much they want to dedicate to bitcoin investing.

In the new situation, investors do not really have enough knowledge about this, which is why they want to depend on other people, especially those who know a little about investment.
Now, according to the little knowledge we have about investment, we can say that the amount we will invest will depend entirely on us because how much income we have, how much money is being spent in the family and how much money is left, but the other party does not know, so we have to make our own decisions.

Yep.  You are going to have to figure it out and to be responsible for your choice, and I am also saying that the most important thing is that you figure out that you have discretionary income and that you are investing into bitcoin from your discretionary income.

I have also been saying that you need to have common sense... so if you are not sure about your discretionary income or your common sense, then you need to make sure that you are comfortable with that before you get started, even though I suggest that it is important to get started as soon as you can once you determine that you have discretionary income and common sense.

I would imagine that if you are worried about the whole matter, then you just start out with a small amount, such as $100 or $10 or some other amount each week, while you are figuring things out...so it is better for you to start out conservatively and to get started rather than to either not start or to start out overly aggressive, so you have to figure out a comfortable balance and as you improve your systems and figure out your cashflow, then as your cashflow management systems/practices strengthen (including your building up back up funds) then you likely can increase your level of aggressiveness in terms of buying bitcoin. 

So what is the rush if you have 4-10 years or longer that you would be investing into bitcoin, right?  You build and strengthen your bitcoin investing and your cashflow management systems as you go.

Another thing that happens to investors in the new situation is that they get confused about the fact that they are investing with relatively little money.

How much is relatively little?  $10 per week? 

Yeah, if that is all they can afford, then they start out with what they are able to start out with, and if they really want to invest in bitcoin more aggressively, then they have to figure out their own 9 individual factors^**  and bitcoin as compared with other investment is one of those factors.  It can take a while to improve confidence and cashflow management systems, but if you have common sense, then you are not going to want to lose money, and if you have common sense, you are going to try to learn as you go, and if you have common sense, you are not going to fuck around trying to take too many chances.

**By the way, they do not need to know all of their 9 individual factors prior to getting started.  They can figure out their 9 individual factors as they go.

yeah, there are guys who want to get rich quick, but to me it seems better to put good cashflow  management systems in place first, especially if you are suggesting that the newbie is coming to bitcoin without hardly any knowledge or experience... and yeah, they have to take responsibility for their own mistakes if they lose money or if they gain money, but if they put strong systems/practices in place, then they are likely going to put themselves in a better position by investing  in bitcoin rather than not, especially 4-10 years down the road or longer.

If they do not have 4-10 years or longer, then they likely would be coming to bitcoin with the intention of trading rather than investing, and I personally recommend against trading bitcoin and I recommend for investing into it.

You have said a great thing here that no amount of investment is small, yes, this is what investors should keep in mind.

It is true that very small amounts can end up adding up to very large amounts, especially after several years of investing, yet at the same time, guys still should be attempting to figure out how much they can invest in practical terms about their discretionary income, so if a guy earns $30k per year ($2,500 per month), and he has around $1,800 in expenses, then that means that he has around $700 per month of discretionary income, and even though $100 per week might be a bit on the aggressive side, $10 per week seems quite whimpy. 

So guys surely need to figure out a reasonable investment level within their own means, and if they are newbies, they likely would start out smaller and work their way up to higher levels as they become more comfortable with the investment.  If they never become comfortable, then they can stop their investment or downsize their investment or just keep it at a very conservative level.  Those are surely individual choices that no one else can make for another person.

We are trying our best, this is important for our investment, yes, now we may be starting to invest with a small amount of money, but gradually when we know more about investment, we will be able to use more money for investment. 

Of course, guys make mistakes at various points along the way, yet if you are trying your best and also trying to learn along the way, you will also find that your learning along the way will inform you the extent to which you might need to tweak your strategies and/or approaches in one direction or another in order to feel more comfortable with what you are doing.

There is no perfect approach, even though there could be some approaches that are more comfortable financially and psychologically for you as compared with other approaches, and you might not even realize your own level of balance until you put your systems into practice and tweak them at various points and then make mistakes at various pionts and then come to realize that you would be more comfortable to invest $75 per week rather than $100 per week and to put $40 per week into your back up funds rather than $20 per week.. and yeah at various points you cross over certain bridges and you experience certain level of volatility that end up testing your finances and your psychology, which might contribute towards your coming to the conclusion to either make further tweaks or to just keep things as they are, since sometimes you realize the system that you have in place is working pretty well as it is...and maybe you will revisit it (and do some new calculations) in a month or two...or maybe in 6 months of letting it go "as is."

If an investor invests consistently with a small amount of money and if he can do so comfortably, then he will definitely be able to hold on to his investment for a long time, but when an investor invests beyond his means, he will feel pressure to invest and with pressure, one cannot go very far.

Well, yes.  If you overdo it one way or the other, then you may well suffer negative consequences.  If you overinvest in bitcoin and do not have sufficient back up funds, then you might put yourself into a position that you have to sell some or all of your bitcoin due to your own sloppiness (or recklessness).

Hopefully, you can figure out some balance that is comfortable for you, and surely there are guys who come to realize that once they invest in bitcoin for a while and they shore up their cashflow management systems/practices, they put themselves into a position to become more aggressive in their bitcoin investment, yet if they had tried to be aggressive in their approach to bitcoin prior to getting their systems in place, they would have had ended up being overly aggressive, which is a mistake.

Depending on your own income situation versus your expenses, it can take a year or more to get your back up funds into a good position, so if you are investing in bitcoin and you are building up your back up funds, you figure out ways to balance building up both without putting yourself in a situation where you might end up getting forced into selling your bitcoin that is not at a time of your own choosing .. and surely if you are a young guy who is just finishing college and looking for  a well paying job, then you might not be in as good of a position to invest heavily in bitcoin until you get that job.. but then you still might be able to do both, you just modify your approach and sometimes it takes a while to get systems in place or even some guys with good jobs will sometimes have to change their jobs, too.

[finaleshot2016]

Impatient friends should not be given advice, and just left alone, they always gonna find ways to blame you partially for the mistakes they are guaranteed to make, now or tomrrow

I truly cut out so much crap from my life just by focusing on DCA easy, and by deleting all my socials! And while still keeping a little bit in touch with everything on Bitcoin (and 1% on other coins)

In the long run, people will always end up doing what they wanna do, no matter how much you advise them. I’ve learned this long ago which made me stop attempting to advise people on how to go about their investment, and the fact that they lack the ability to fully take responsibility for their failures makes it even more worse.

And yeah, there can really be a lot of distractions online and anyone who doesn’t really know what they’re doing can be easily influenced and maybe end up taking the wrong decisions, that’s why it takes folks with conviction to succeed in Bitcoin accumulation/investment.

That's the reason why I don't to get stressed over people learning cryptocurrency. I mean, I'm here to teach what I know, you can ask me about things but I'm not the one who'll leash you on what you can do here because I believe that the no. 1 teacher is your experiences. I prefer them having a lot of losses than I'm the one who's stressing out and the outcome is still the same, they can't learn. It's better to find their way to fight, let them do their trade and if they lose, that's your best learning experience. 'Cause I believe that in their first trades, they will definitely do what they want, ofc they want to try those learnings to test if it's effective or not.

[topbitcoin]

No matter how they tried or impose any power regarding on Bitcoin, it will not affect the users that much and the most part of it, is that it can not be control by anyone which they can't stop the growth of Bitcoin despite their efforts.
That is why so many people are so interested to be a part of Bitcoin community because of the privilege they getting from it, by having financial freedom and so be in control of their funds and so many others reasons too.

We don't need to think too much about what the authorities are doing because after all, trust in bitcoin is determined by ourselves as a form of belief.
On the other hand, many people are interested in bitcoin is also not a guarantee I think because we cannot close our eyes that some who are in bitcoin are easier to manipulate just because their goals are more directed towards fomo and momentary gains.

A lot of people always talk too much that they are investors but it is just a confession that is even exaggerated because in its application they sometimes more to fomo who only want momentary gains who claim to be investors but the understanding is wrong.

[Omj1014]

If a person is investing in bitcoin on a weekly basis for a whole cycle (4 years) then he should not be concerned about price, and perhaps reassess the matter after 4 years of accumulating bitcoin.  4 years seems like a long time, yet it seems to me that anyone who invests into bitcoin every week for 4 years, they would be incentivized to learn more about it, and so hopefully after  4 years investing in bitcoin, they will be more informed about bitcoin as compared to how informed about bitcoin they were when they first started..
[/quote]

I think this point of yours throws more light on how important the DCA method is to beginners, apart keep them on the safe side, because of the frequent investing it also gives experience.

[slaman29]

Hahahahahaha

You are right that maybe based on your experiences, you might have been too traumatized.  Surely, I am a bit reluctant to get blamed for things that were within another person's control, such as investment and financial matters, yet surely I have still come to feel bad when folks take their own approach that ends up screwing things ups.. so we cannot completely know all of their financial and personal matters. So for example in bitcoin, we might suggest that someone takes a position that is reasonably within their budget and then just DCA for 4 years or more, even though they might also have various lump sum investments along the way too... but yeah, they deviate from the planned approach and perhaps they are lacking some other aspects of perspective, so even if we might suggest that they study bitcoin  to get to know what it is, better, they may well not end up doing it.

Perhaps, based on your own experiences, you might have to start your conversation a little more straight-forward and hard core to make sure that they are more than clear that you are pointing out some aspects of bitcoin, yet they have to figure it out for themselves, and  even though you are suggesting that it is a good idea to get involved and buy some and to learn at the same time, they still have to figure out some budget that is what they are not afraid to lose in the event that bitcoin does not do well or that they execute the plan poorly.

It is ALWAYS like this, whether we think it or not lol. Everybody deviates, but that is the nature of someone who has no experience, and not full trust. In my entire life maybe only my mother listens to me without deviating, but that is always because she fully trusts me in things (like computer stuff) and she has not yet asked me about Bitcoin

I have tried various approaches in the past with forex, and then early in my BTC 'career' but it doesn't work. People usually ask you for validation and confirmation, so whatever you say they take from their lens.

That is the funny thing, people who understand DYOR or that 'they just need to figure out appropriate amounts' are usually not the people asking for help or opinion

I understand that there are so many times that bitcoin will come up, but then the person does not really know about or have interest in bitcoin, but instead they want to talk about some shitcoin that they had heard about... So, yeah, even if we might try to direct them, they still might get distracted into some problematic areas - like their piqued interest  in how to get rich quick.  So surely if the conversation starts out and they are too distracted by shitcoins or perhaps the idea of trading, and they don't really want to talk about investing in bitcoin, then they might be too far gone, since any audience would need to be somewhat receptive in order for any kind of meaningful conversation to take place.  

I have had some cases in which I was talking to guys in their 60s, and they were concerned that they might not have at least a minimum of a 4 year timeline, and I would say that I don't recommend trading rather than investing, so I personally would be worried if a guy is getting started with less than a 4 year timeline..oh and by the way, some of those guys who were in their early to mid 60s in 2014-2016 when I was first talking with them about bitcoin, are then later on down the road in their age (mid-70s-ish) now... It can be complicated when the potential investment timeline is shorter, but then it ends up being the case that they would have had likely been way better off if they had invested into bitcoin in 2014-2016 when I was first telling them about it, yet surely there is also no way to really know in advance what the price (or other aspects of bitcoin) is going to end up doing, either.

Yup, my 'experience' as a 40 year old guy with a circle of friends older than me, and interested in making money, they already have
> a topic
> opinion
> and want to convert you, rather than ask for your opinion

Everyone talks about retirment plans at first, but this suggests 20+ years. Then when you see or hear them again in a few years, and they talked about selling or about how much they lost with shitcoins, then you know they were actually thinking short term.

Very interesting to hear for myself about people who are literally in retirement. And if they still think they have 10+ years, and if they use that in their investment motives.

Even when doing forex before I’ve met older people who hesitate because they feel they 'don’t have four years' but as you said, many of those same people would have been far better off if they had simply started when the topic first came up. It’s a good reminder that the perfect moment never arrives. The Chinese saying I like is 'best moment was yesterday, next best moment is now.'

[MainIbem]

That's the reason why I don't to get stressed over people learning cryptocurrency. I mean, I'm here to teach what I know, you can ask me about things but I'm not the one who'll leash you on what you can do here because I believe that the no. 1 teacher is your experiences. I prefer them having a lot of losses than I'm the one who's stressing out and the outcome is still the same, they can't learn. It's better to find their way to fight, let them do their trade and if they lose, that's your best learning experience. 'Cause I believe that in their first trades, they will definitely do what they want, ofc they want to try those learnings to test if it's effective or not.

Exactly, the only thing I can do is to direct people towards getting the right knowledge about Bitcoin and how to go about it the right way but it's left for them to do the right thing cause even though you preach about holding and how important and beneficial it is for an investor, there would always be a weak hands who would do otherwise, someone with a trader vibes who would prioritise short-term holding which is why I won't stress myself or force people towards holding, it's better to just teach them the right thing and allow them make their decisions afterwards.

[JayJuanGee]

edited out]

Yup, my 'experience' as a 40 year old guy with a circle of friends older than me, and interested in making money, they already have
> a topic
> opinion
> and want to convert you, rather than ask for your opinion

Each of us likely have opinions and practices, pride and perhaps a desire to be right about everything.. so it can take a bit of back and forth to get the conversation into the sharing of information kind of a mode.. and frequently guys might not really be able to recognize what they are doing is not working because they are trading rather than investing, and also if they are into an inferior asset (not bitcoin) that can be a problem too.

And, so if there are ways to at least get them to take a small stake into bitcoin, then there is progress, but yeah, that is not likely too easy to happen and it will likely be to their own loss, if they cannot figure out some kind of a way to fit bitcoin into their activities..

It is not easy to add new things.. it takes a bit of time and they likely have to spend time looking over materials and also figuring out some amount from their own budget, whether it is $100 per week or some other amount that at least gets them started... .. and even 4-10 years or longer goes by fast, and some of us have already been telling some of our friends and relatives about bitcoin for more than 10 years.... but many of them (if not an overwhelming majority) have not done shit, even though they have seen bitcoin go up around 100x in that time frame.. and yeah, even if they had not been paying attention the whole 10 years, then even in the past 5 -6  years since 2020, they have seen  quite a bit of UPpity (in the ballpark of 4x to 15x)...


and it is pretty unlikely that the BTC price is going back to any of those pre-2021 price levels between $5k and $50k... it is pretty unlikely that we are ever seeing bitcoin prices in that range, ever again.  It is possible, but not likely.

Many of us in bitcoin for a long time prepare for extremes on the upside and the downside, and many of us do no like downward trajectory bitcoin prices, yet if they happen we are either buying  or just holding through those periods... at least once we have gotten used to investing in bitcoin and not trying to trade it.

[Proty]

edited out]

Yup, my 'experience' as a 40 year old guy with a circle of friends older than me, and interested in making money, they already have
> a topic
> opinion
> and want to convert you, rather than ask for your opinion

Each of us likely have opinions and practices, pride and perhaps a desire to be right about everything.. so it can take a bit of back and forth to get the conversation into the sharing of information kind of a mode.. and frequently guys might not really be able to recognize what they are doing is not working because they are trading rather than investing, and also if they are into an inferior asset (not bitcoin) that can be a problem too.

And, so if there are ways to at least get them to take a small stake into bitcoin, then there is progress, but yeah, that is not likely too easy to happen and it will likely be to their own loss, if they cannot figure out some kind of a way to fit bitcoin into their activities..

It is not easy to add new things.. it takes a bit of time and they likely have to spend time looking over materials and also figuring out some amount from their own budget, whether it is $100 per week or some other amount that at least gets them started... .. and even 4-10 years or longer goes by fast, and some of us have already been telling some of our friends and relatives about bitcoin for more than 10 years.... but many of them (if not an overwhelming majority) have not done shit, even though they have seen bitcoin go up around 100x in that time frame.. and yeah, even if they had not been paying attention the whole 10 years, then even in the past 5 -6  years since 2020, they have seen  quite a bit of UPpity (in the ballpark of 4x to 15x)...


and it is pretty unlikely that the BTC price is going back to any of those pre-2021 price levels between $5k and $50k... it is pretty unlikely that we are ever seeing bitcoin prices in that range, ever again.  It is possible, but not likely.

Many of us in bitcoin for a long time prepare for extremes on the upside and the downside, and many of us do no like downward trajectory bitcoin prices, yet if they happen we are either buying  or just holding through those periods... at least once we have gotten used to investing in bitcoin and not trying to trade it.

Many people do find it difficult to accept ideas that are new to then merely because of ego or fears of been mislead. There are people that are trading bitcoin because they fail to understand what bitcoin is and instead of investing in bitcoin they choose to trade it. If we can be able to convince someone to start with a little bitcoin in there holding they are already making a progress, however this may not really be that simple. Bitcoin investment require alot of patience, risk tolerance and time. Not putting all of this into consideration will only lead to a greater loss. Bitcoin has proven it's worth over the years as a potential coin and trading it isn't a wise option. Those investors that hold bitcoin for long so understand how bitcoin works and they are not moved by market trends.

[Stormisover]

edited out]

Yup, my 'experience' as a 40 year old guy with a circle of friends older than me, and interested in making money, they already have
> a topic
> opinion
> and want to convert you, rather than ask for your opinion

Each of us likely have opinions and practices, pride and perhaps a desire to be right about everything.. so it can take a bit of back and forth to get the conversation into the sharing of information kind of a mode.. and frequently guys might not really be able to recognize what they are doing is not working because they are trading rather than investing, and also if they are into an inferior asset (not bitcoin) that can be a problem too.

And, so if there are ways to at least get them to take a small stake into bitcoin, then there is progress, but yeah, that is not likely too easy to happen and it will likely be to their own loss, if they cannot figure out some kind of a way to fit bitcoin into their activities..

It is not easy to add new things.. it takes a bit of time and they likely have to spend time looking over materials and also figuring out some amount from their own budget, whether it is $100 per week or some other amount that at least gets them started... .. and even 4-10 years or longer goes by fast, and some of us have already been telling some of our friends and relatives about bitcoin for more than 10 years.... but many of them (if not an overwhelming majority) have not done shit, even though they have seen bitcoin go up around 100x in that time frame.. and yeah, even if they had not been paying attention the whole 10 years, then even in the past 5 -6  years since 2020, they have seen  quite a bit of UPpity (in the ballpark of 4x to 15x)...


and it is pretty unlikely that the BTC price is going back to any of those pre-2021 price levels between $5k and $50k... it is pretty unlikely that we are ever seeing bitcoin prices in that range, ever again.  It is possible, but not likely.

Many of us in bitcoin for a long time prepare for extremes on the upside and the downside, and many of us do no like downward trajectory bitcoin prices, yet if they happen we are either buying  or just holding through those periods... at least once we have gotten used to investing in bitcoin and not trying to trade it.

Many people do find it difficult to accept ideas that are new to then merely because of ego or fears of been mislead. There are people that are trading bitcoin because they fail to understand what bitcoin is and instead of investing in bitcoin they choose to trade it. If we can be able to convince someone to start with a little bitcoin in there holding they are already making a progress, however this may not really be that simple. Bitcoin investment require alot of patience, risk tolerance and time. Not putting all of this into consideration will only lead to a greater loss. Bitcoin has proven it's worth over the years as a potential coin and trading it isn't a wise option. Those investors that hold bitcoin for long so understand how bitcoin works and they are not moved by market trends.

We don't necessarily have to convince anyone to invest in Bitcoin, a wise person can take advantage of a little idea or information he has gotten and dig deep into to magnifying it to the best of knowledge through personal researches, we can talk to anyone about Bitcoin but investing should be out of their own conviction because they have vital role to play too in order to play in alignment to the success of their investment, it is a pity for those who only narrow their own understand without wanting to learn about new things it is retarding to think that things will always remain the same without innovations and while most people don't move forward in life.

[liasbaa]

Exactly, the only thing I can do is to direct people towards getting the right knowledge about Bitcoin and how to go about it the right way but it's left for them to do the right thing cause even though you preach about holding and how important and beneficial it is for an investor, there would always be a weak hands who would do otherwise, someone with a trader vibes who would prioritise short-term holding which is why I won't stress myself or force people towards holding, it's better to just teach them the right thing and allow them make their decisions afterwards.

If the pressure for long term Bitcoin holdings benefits those holders  it would be reasonable to put pressure. A few days ago, a friend of mine asked for a loan for an emergency and his alternative source was Bitcoin holdings. The amount of cash he had was not enough to meet his emergency needs. I arranged for him to meet his emergency needs by lending him money. This is a kind of financial support because if my friend had sold some of his Bitcoin holdings at that time, he would have made a profit but his investment target would not have been met.

There are many Bitcoin holders who are determined to do it for the long term and they are saving Bitcoins regularly. If an investor close to you has a tendency to withdraw Bitcoin for small scale emergencies, you can backup them financially to the extent of your ability. As a result the investor emergency needs will be met and on the other hand Bitcoin holdings will be maintained, which will be of great help in increasing his wealth in the future. A small contribution from you will be appreciated by the Bitcoin holder.

[slaman29]

and it is pretty unlikely that the BTC price is going back to any of those pre-2021 price levels between $5k and $50k... it is pretty unlikely that we are ever seeing bitcoin prices in that range, ever again.  It is possible, but not likely.

Many of us in bitcoin for a long time prepare for extremes on the upside and the downside, and many of us do no like downward trajectory bitcoin prices, yet if they happen we are either buying  or just holding through those periods... at least once we have gotten used to investing in bitcoin and not trying to trade it.

Well said, and anyone who reads your posts can tell this comes from learned and lived experience. I was 'late' coming in 2016/2017 but even I feel thats enough to understand the same things:

> We will never see another x10. For this to happen we need to dip below $50k and like you I don't think this happens again
> We don't like to see bears, but if we choose DCA this is less of a worry and a small 'bonus' in fact so that we gain more in the longterm
> We understand trading is speculation. Holding is patience.

Unlikely to find new people with this thinking since, after all, this thinking comes with living through the whole cycle over and over