Is Tornado Cash not a mixer?

[_act_]

According to what I read from here, it is nothing more than a mixer, but according to what two users posted here, they said it is not a mixer but a privacy tool or something.

I still see no reason not to call Tornado Cash a mixer. Am I wrong?

[Lucius]

Does it really matter what something is called if we know exactly what it is used for? Mixers are actually something that enables a certain level of privacy because the coins you send and the coins you get back should not be connected. Whether someone calls it a mixer, a privacy tool, or some other name is really irrelevant.

The only reason why mixers are always targeted by the authorities is that they don't have KYC, and if you don't know who sent the coins for mixing, then you can't catch the (mostly) bad guys who use these tools to try to hide the trail of their illegal activities.

[examplens]

According to what I read from here, it is nothing more than a mixer, but according to what two users posted here, they said it is not a mixer but a privacy tool or something.

I still see no reason not to call Tornado Cash a mixer. Am I wrong?

Everyone interprets according to their needs.
There were quite a few who considered eXch a mixer, even though it was a classic swap exchange.
Finally, mixers are not specifically regulated, so we don't even have a precise metric for when exactly a service is considered a mixer

[_act_]

Everyone interprets according to their needs.
There were quite a few who considered eXch a mixer, even though it was a classic swap exchange.
Finally, mixers are not specifically regulated, so we don't even have a precise metric for when exactly a service is considered a mixer

Exch is different from them all because exch is an instant exchange that does not require KYC, although it can be used for mixing because of how it is. Even other centralized exchanges, especially those that do not require KYC can be regarded as mixer if we should take it to such level. But Tornado Cash fits no other place than being a mixer. Can Tornado Cash be used for exchanging from one coins to another?

What I know about it is that it is the same as Coinjoin.

[uchegod-21]

Does it really matter what something is called if we know exactly what it is used for? Mixers are actually something that enables a certain level of privacy because the coins you send and the coins you get back should not be connected. Whether someone calls it a mixer, a privacy tool, or some other name is really irrelevant.

The only reason why mixers are always targeted by the authorities is that they don't have KYC, and if you don't know who sent the coins for mixing, then you can't catch the (mostly) bad guys who use these tools to try to hide the trail of their illegal activities.

It is correct that hence we know the use or uses of something, what it is called don't really matter. I have seen people run a mixer and shy away from calling their service a mixer.
What tornado cash does is pooling ethereum-based transactions together and then redistribute them in order to make it difficult to trace the origin of the transactions. This is called mixing to the best of my knowledge.

[hugeblack]

Tornado Cash is decentralized non-custodial protocol with smart contracts have been implemented within the Ethereum blockchain, you can run the code from ----> https://github.com/tornadocash/docs

According to what I read from here, it is nothing more than a mixer,

According to https://tornado.cash/

The UI is hosted in a decentralized way on IPFS and can be accessed using following link tornadocash.eth.limo

So we can assume that the UI (https://tornado.cash/ ) is decentralized and doesn't collect data, but you can manage it locally via https://github.com/tornadocash/ui-minified or https://github.com/tornadocash/tornado-cli.
So yes, Tornado Cash is a decentralized protocol, and mixers can use it in the background.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Tornado Cash is decentralized non-custodial protocol with smart contracts have been implemented within the Ethereum blockchain, you can run the code from ----> https://github.com/tornadocash/docs

According to what I read from here, it is nothing more than a mixer,

According to https://tornado.cash/

The UI is hosted in a decentralized way on IPFS and can be accessed using following link tornadocash.eth.limo

So we can assume that the UI (https://tornado.cash/ ) is decentralized and doesn't collect data, but you can manage it locally via https://github.com/tornadocash/ui-minified or https://github.com/tornadocash/tornado-cli.
So yes, Tornado Cash is a decentralized protocol, and mixers can use it in the background.

I don't know if I am/I was hallucinating or something like that, but wasn't the tornado.cash domain shutdown sometime back? If I recall well, it appears it was so hard to access tornado cash service using the commonly known domains

Perhaps it got reactivated after the sanctions got lifted recently?

[_act_]

@hugeblack, let me ask another but like the same question. As mixers are not allowed on this forum right now, will any campaign related to Tornado Cash be allowed?

I don't know if I am/I was hallucinating or something like that, but wasn't the tornado.cash domain shutdown sometime back? If I recall well, it appears it was so hard to access tornado cash service using the commonly known domains

Perhaps it got reactivated after the sanctions got lifted recently?

All I know is that as the sanctions were lifted, the domain can continue as normal.

Did you notice people are wishing theymos to allow mixers campaign again? One of the reasons is the Tornado Cash sanctions that was lifted which means the domain can continue to be operational.

[TryNinja]

Perhaps it got reactivated after the sanctions got lifted recently?

I would highly recommend everyone *NOT* use the tornado.cash domain. Some people are claiming it is malicious.

🚨WARNING🚨

Do NOT use the tornado[.]cash website. it is a compromised UI. It will steal your ETH if you interact with it. The domain was registered a few days ago.

https://x.com/vxdb/status/1909277019231109362

I can't verify it so better be safe than sorry. If you really want to use tornado cash, you should probably find out how to host your own mirror with the verifiable open source UI.

To OP, Tornado Cash is a mixer.

[hugeblack]

@hugeblack, let me ask another but like the same question. As mixers are not allowed on this forum right now, will any campaign related to Tornado Cash be allowed?

@theymos' definition of mixers is a set of rules for protecting the community, but it does not represent a good definition of mixers.
Yes, you can advertise here as it something similar to CoinJoin

[ABCbits]

Definition of "mixer" these days is getting blurrier these days. Personally i don't consider CoinJoin and similar non-custodial protocol as mixer. But as time passed, i notice more people disagree with me.

[Lucius]

~snip~
Did you notice people are wishing theymos to allow mixers campaign again? One of the reasons is the Tornado Cash sanctions that was lifted which means the domain can continue to be operational.

Wishes are one thing, reality is something completely different. Any decisions cannot be made based on what is currently happening in the US, which is a policy that is conducted through social networks in such a way that it changes several times in one day.

In addition, people want the mixers to return because they remember that their pay rates were more than twice as high as these today in other campaigns - but even if the mixers were to return, I honestly doubt that they would pay anything more than other sig campaigns.

[BenCodie]

Tornado Cash is decentralized non-custodial protocol with smart contracts have been implemented within the Ethereum blockchain, you can run the code from ----> https://github.com/tornadocash/docs

According to what I read from here, it is nothing more than a mixer,

According to https://tornado.cash/

The UI is hosted in a decentralized way on IPFS and can be accessed using following link tornadocash.eth.limo

So we can assume that the UI (https://tornado.cash/ ) is decentralized and doesn't collect data, but you can manage it locally via https://github.com/tornadocash/ui-minified or https://github.com/tornadocash/tornado-cli.
So yes, Tornado Cash is a decentralized protocol, and mixers can use it in the background.

I don't know if I am/I was hallucinating or something like that, but wasn't the tornado.cash domain shutdown sometime back? If I recall well, it appears it was so hard to access tornado cash service using the commonly known domains

Perhaps it got reactivated after the sanctions got lifted recently?

Yes, during/under the Biden administration, Tornado Cash was deemed an illegal money laundering technology and the developer of the open source and decentralized software was arrested and found guilty of laundering crypto, and addresses used by Tornado Cash were blacklisted by OFAC (which in turn had people's USDC frozen in some circumstances, if they used Tornado Cash).

Around the same time, mixers were banned on the forum.

This lousy attempt at suppressing privacy/freedom and framing mixers as "money laundering tools" didn't last long. In February 2025 (not long after Trump was inaugurated) The developer was set to be released from prison and OFAC removed tornado cash sanctions.

The entire Tornado Cash drama and operation was a waste of time, however it has now created precedent that tools open source and decentralized tools like Tornado Cash are legal privacy protocols as no entity controls it and ultimately its activity is on-chain/operated by smart contracts. The difference between eXch and mixers on this forum is that they were managed by people/entities, which is a big no-no (centralization) and huge point of failure (the people go down, so do the application).

[NotATether]

@hugeblack, let me ask another but like the same question. As mixers are not allowed on this forum right now, will any campaign related to Tornado Cash be allowed?

@theymos' definition of mixers is a set of rules for protecting the community, but it does not represent a good definition of mixers.
Yes, you can advertise here as it something similar to CoinJoin

All ETH mixers use smart contracts because there is no UTXO model in Ethereum. Therefore, Tornado Cash and similar services are all mixers.

[The Cryptovator]

Big exchanges like Binance consider Tornado Cash as a mixer. Actually, it does work like a mixer, but unlike Bitcoin mixers. I am a witness to Binance freezing my account when a transaction was connected with Tornado Cash. Later they unfroze upon a lot of requests, but they restricted me to use their platform. Just enable withdrawal to move my existing funds from Binance.

Since big exchanges consider Tornado Cash as a mixer, it means we have to follow them. Otherwise, we may fall into trouble in the future when dealing with centralised exchanges. I have learnt a lesson as well; I will follow their standards.

[bbc.reporter]

According to what I read from here, it is nothing more than a mixer, but according to what two users posted here, they said it is not a mixer but a privacy tool or something.

I still see no reason not to call Tornado Cash a mixer. Am I wrong?

You are correct. Also, a mixer is also a privacy tool, however, on Tornado Cash, this is an onchain platform that cannot be censored unless the Ethereum validators will work together to stop these transactions from entering Tornado Cash's smart contracts.

The only difference, between Tornado Cash and what we have been calling mixers is Tornado Cash is onchain and arguably decentralized. A mixer is centralized.

[NotATether]

The only difference, between Tornado Cash and what we have been calling mixers is Tornado Cash is onchain and arguably decentralized. A mixer is centralized.

No that's not necessarily true.

A mixer is just a service that obfuscates the origin of incoming coins. The actual method they go about doing that doesn't matter. Some do a simple CoinJoin. Some buy coins from exchanges and miners with your money and give them to you. Others, like I said above, use smart contracts.

As long as the mixer has access to the private keys for spending the funds then it doesn't matter whether it it is a website or some dApp with a smart contract behind it.

All mixers are privacy tools but not all privacy tools are mixers. (Lightning Network is not a mixer for example. Neither are Silent Payments, nor are Taproot addresses that use Schnorr signatures.)

[examplens]

@hugeblack, let me ask another but like the same question. As mixers are not allowed on this forum right now, will any campaign related to Tornado Cash be allowed?

@theymos' definition of mixers is a set of rules for protecting the community, but it does not represent a good definition of mixers.
Yes, you can advertise here as it something similar to CoinJoin

It's hard to define because we had a very similar example that was eventually characterized as a mixer and banned from the forums. For example, Jambler, which is also a provider that offers a complete infrastructure where only its partners offer the ultimate mixing service.

[NotATether]

It's hard to define because we had a very similar example that was eventually characterized as a mixer and banned from the forums. For example, Jambler, which is also a provider that offers a complete infrastructure where only its partners offer the ultimate mixing service.

Jambler was the service running the mixing, not any of the websites using it. They just use the API provided to them by Jambler and then create the website that you the end user sees. So in this case so think it is fair to classify them all as mixers.

[examplens]

Jambler was the service running the mixing, not any of the websites using it. They just use the API provided to them by Jambler and then create the website that you the end user sees. So in this case so think it is fair to classify them all as mixers.

Yes, but speaking exclusively about Jambler, you can't mix coins directly there (at least as far as I know), you can only exclusively through their partner.
I'm just saying that such qualifications are subject to different interpretations.