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Author Topic: [Guide] Renewable energies and BTC mining - A calculation attempt  (Read 106 times)
MaxMueller (OP)
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June 23, 2025, 09:08:46 AM
 #1

For me BTC mining with renewable energies might be a chance for the community to restore some decentralisation in the BTC mining area. From what i have read in different threads here, there seems to be some adventurous statements or completely wrong ideas about (PV-) Mining out there. Therefore i'll try to give some guide with a (simplified) calculation attempt.



First of all let's start with some standard mining calculator like this one, based on hashpower, power consumption, pool fee and energy costs. Obviously those calculator are very simplified and better in discribing the past or the present rather than the future, but despite that we can extract some general knowledge from it.

  • Those rewards are extrapolated from the presend, obviously we need some correction here due to difficulty adjustment
  • The costs are directly proportional to miner efficiency [J/TH] and electricity costs [$/kWh], no matter which one you optimize, the effekt for present profitability is the same.
  • The ratio of rewards to cost is a reliable indicator for remaining lifetime of the miner



Let's have a look on difficulty increase. Regarding the difficulty increase on a log scale you may notice some kind of constant increase. Depending on the considered time period you may have some minor variation.


Source

Difficulty time stamps:
19.06.2015 -> 49,6924 G
19.10.2018 -> 7,1829 T
19.07.2021 -> 13,6726 T
19.06.2025 -> 126,4114 T

Difficulty Devellopment:
120 M: (126411,4 G / 49, 6924 G)^(1/120) = 1,0675 -> +6,75% Difficulty increase every month
80 M: (126,4114 T / 7,1829 T)^(1/80) = 1,0365 -> +3,65% Difficulty increase every month
47 M: (126,4114 T / 13,6726 T)^(1/47) = 1,0485 -> +4,85% Difficulty increase every month

Regarding the rewards its up to you which decrease you feel the most comfortable with, i will go on with 0,96^x, its a little optimistic, but otherwise the following calculations might be even more sobering.



Now lets combine this knowledge with our standard mining calculator results.
For the mining calculator i choose 1TH, 30W, 0% pool fee and $0,03 / kWh. As a result i got $1,50 rewards and -$0.65 costs (current for 30 days). Cost quota is 0,433.
With the Cost quota we can determine the remaining operating lifespan: 0,96^x = 0,433 -> x=log(0,433) / log (0,96) = 20,5 months left.
Additionally we can calculate the earnings value with some online calculator: Integral (0,96^x - 0,433) for 0..20,5 = 5.
This means that you will rougly earn 5 times the monthly rewards of $1.50 over the life span of this 1 TH miner.
I did the same for $0,02 and $0,01 and $0 per kWh, you can easily do those calcuations for any numbers in excel on your own (remember, it does not matter if you reduce miner efficiency [J/TH] or electricity costs [$/kWh], only the product of both counts).


 
What conclusions can we take out of this?
  • Even if you run your miner 100 years with free energy the expected value of returns will stay below 24,5 x $1,50 = $36,75 per TH
  • Lottery Miner with acquisition costs of $50-$100 / TH will never ever reach ROI without extreme Luck, expect to pay 2-3 times your earnings
  • Latest Antminer generations with prices at $30 / TH are so expensive to buy that you can hardly manage to reach ROI, you should not buy at those prices as the complete margin has already been skimmed off by the manufacturer
  • Instead you should focus on miners with low aquisition costs (e.g. S19 Generation), this is especialle true for mining with renewables, as uptime far below 100% directly decreases your potential earnings



Now lets move on to renewables. I first assume costs of $230 per kWp PV, which seems to be the lower end of possible prices and in most cases only possible due to extensive DIY knowledge. I further assume 25 years lifetime and 912,5 kWh yield per year, wich leads to energy generation costs of $0,01 / kWh. With those energy costs mining should definitively profitable, right? Not really, the weak point is the capacity utilization. With 1kWp PV + 1kW mining capacity the utilization of the miner is only ~10%, much too low for profitable mining. And what if we choose a smaller miner, e.g. 100W? Lets have a closer look.

So 912,5 kWh per year means an daily average of 2,5 kWh per day. When you simplify production and assume a triangular course you get 0 kWh at the turn of the year and 5 kWh per day in midyear. Obviously there are additional fluctuations. On a summer day we may have up to 16h * 0,8kW = 12,8 kWh = ~2,5x 5kWh. We therefore assume a max fluctuation factor (up&down) of 2,5x. But let us stay with the average production triangle first. We cut the triangle into 10 disks of 0,5 kWh which each could be fully consumed by a 100W Miner. In Case of 10x 100W miner, that would mean, that we start with 1 miner and switch on another on energy production is so high that we get into the next disk. While the  
first miner has 19% utilization the last one only has 1% and would probably be a heating rod instead of a miner. With smaller miners we can therefore almost double the utilization, but even 19% utilization is to low for profitable Mining.  

 



Lets move on to energy storage. Obviously you can exchange one of those 100W miners with an 0,5 kWh energy storage to consume energy production and provide it to the miner to increase utilization.
Lets consider the following setup: 1x 100 Watt miner + 6 x 0,5 kWh = 3kWh storage + 300W heating rod. The Miner now have a utilization of 19+17+15+13+11+9+7= 91%.
Let us further assume $150 / kWh storage, so you get $230 for PV and $450 for storage. Your invest trippled, so energy costs go up to $0,03 per kWh but with a nice availability.  
  
Back to our profitability chart we can effort following miners:
30 J/TH: 5 * $1,50 / TH * 91% = $6,8 / TH -> e.g. $700 for S19 j Pro 104 TH
20 J/TH: 8,5 * $1,50 / TH * 91% = $11,6 /TH -> e.g. $700 for S19 j Pro 104 TH underclocked to ~60 TH like described her and here
10 J/TH: 14 * $1,50 / TH * 91% = $19 /TH -> are there any?

The prices for S19j Pro are absolutly realistic, so we are there, profitable PV-Mining is possible right?



But wait, what about fluctuations? As i described before a fluctuations factor of 2.5x in both directions is plausible.
You can somehow balance out some fluctuations with over- and underclocking. I did a lot of experiments with my S19j Pro (default 104 TH @29,5 J/TH) and reached operation points of +50% Hashrate @35 J/TH, -20% Hashrate @25 J/TH and -40% Hashrate @20J/TH.  
You have to keep in mind that high days are less often then low days. For 2 days with 250% production you need 5 days with 40% production to get back to average of 100% production. With underclocking only you may have 2x days 100% Hashpower and 5 Days 60% Hashpower so ~70-75% on average. With overclocking you may have 2x days 150% hashpower and 5x days 60% which results in ~85% avarage but you would need additional invests for better power supply and advanced cooling solutions.  



Conclusion:
Even with very optimistic Assumptions it might just be enough to reach ROI with a strong tendency to losses instead of gains. There are no buffers for repairs, paid working time or other unplaned downtimes. At the latest when you have a look at losses due to unused opporunities (e.g. trading the energy market or waiting to buy energy storage until price decreases) Mining seems to be a bad idea, as long as you can not produce mining hardware on your own for much less than the B2C prices.

Did i miss something? Would be fun to get a deeptalk here, as i think the topic is very important for decentralisation of miners.

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June 23, 2025, 06:50:18 PM
 #2

I don't understand how you are going to get electricity at a cost of $0.01/kWh?
If I could get such a price for electricity, I would sell this electricity to miners for 4-5 cents and have a good profit Smiley

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June 23, 2025, 07:00:13 PM
Last edit: June 24, 2025, 04:09:49 AM by mindrust
 #3

Already made all the calculations needed, everything has been said about it.

It does not work.

It won’t work.

If it was possible, everybody would do it.

Take a look around, do you see anybody running miners on solar or wind turbines and making any profits?

Damn right there aren’t any.

Because it is not fucking possible.

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philipma1957
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June 23, 2025, 07:19:37 PM
 #4

I don't understand how you are going to get electricity at a cost of $0.01/kWh?
If I could get such a price for electricity, I would sell this electricity to miners for 4-5 cents and have a good profit Smiley

I can speak for my state of New Jersey in the USA 🇺🇸

depending on what year you installed a home solar grid tied system its cost is zero .

that is for say a 22kwatt system

which would let you run 1 s21xp for no power cost still have a little power left for the home to use for lights or what ever.

but the outlay for that setup is about 30k which you get back as rebates over 7 years.

30% in year one and 10% a year for seven years.

so there is a cost as you could have the 30k in the bank getting interest  so I would argue the 30k setup cost 3000 in lost interest.

so if you buy a s21 xp for 7k add in 700 more in interest lost.

this is 3700 for the system and 7000 for the miner.


the miner makes 280x .05 =14 a day

500 days you earn 7000 in btc maybe maybe not.  the op neglected that btc grows in price. we know it grows in difficulty.



so solar small scale can work or not.


to make money mining some holding ends up being in the equation.

at op you could argue that over a six year time period hold btc always works.

I am pretty sure that the worse long was from



nov 2017 to jan 2023 five years 2 months

or

dec 2017 to jan 2023 five years 1 months.


to me the arguement would be every 6 year hodl made money

so why do solar for 7 years plus (time for full government rebates)

and if your gear breaks you lose out.


at mindrust you are wrong, but it is not easy to do a big system.

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MaxMueller (OP)
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June 24, 2025, 07:29:08 AM
 #5

I don't understand how you are going to get electricity at a cost of $0.01/kWh?
If I could get such a price for electricity, I would sell this electricity to miners for 4-5 cents and have a good profit Smiley

$250 per kWp PV. ~1000kWh per year over 25 years. $250 / 25.000kWh = $0,01 /kWh.
Renewables are cheap but fluctuating, utilization of PV-Only is just 10-20%. For more availability you need batteries and those invests increase the price per kWh again.



~


No need to get upset, especially when you are wrong.
Your view is backwards, but if you look forward it is just a question of time when i will work. Just look any random price development chart for PV and Batteries.
The question is how close we are to this point, which adjusting screws do we have and did we pass that point already with some DIY effort?!



~

Obvously you are right, that BTC price grow is not part of the calculation just because it would distort everything. To get the uncertainty out of the calculation BTC hodl is the benchmark, so you need to sell BTC (lets assume 1BTC = $100k) to buy mining equipment and energy and hopefully gets more sats back from mining.

The core problem i see is not the price per kWh, it's the acquisition costs per TH. Mining Hardware manufacturer use their quasi monopoly to skim off the entire margin. To break the mining monopoly the community does not need to dig for gold they need to produce the shovels.

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June 24, 2025, 01:26:58 PM
Last edit: June 24, 2025, 01:38:38 PM by philipma1957
 #6

I don't understand how you are going to get electricity at a cost of $0.01/kWh?
If I could get such a price for electricity, I would sell this electricity to miners for 4-5 cents and have a good profit Smiley

$250 per kWp PV. ~1000kWh per year over 25 years. $250 / 25.000kWh = $0,01 /kWh.
Renewables are cheap but fluctuating, utilization of PV-Only is just 10-20%. For more availability you need batteries and those invests increase the price per kWh again.



~


No need to get upset, especially when you are wrong.
Your view is backwards, but if you look forward it is just a question of time when i will work. Just look any random price development chart for PV and Batteries.
The question is how close we are to this point, which adjusting screws do we have and did we pass that point already with some DIY effort?!



~

Obvously you are right, that BTC price grow is not part of the calculation just because it would distort everything. To get the uncertainty out of the calculation BTC hodl is the benchmark, so you need to sell BTC (lets assume 1BTC = $100k) to buy mining equipment and energy and hopefully gets more sats back from mining.

The core problem i see is not the price per kWh, it's the acquisition costs per TH. Mining Hardware manufacturer use their quasi monopoly to skim off the entire margin. To break the mining monopoly the community does not need to dig for gold they need to produce the shovels.

with quasi slave labor available in China beating the price does not happen.

Mining is what it has become a small profit grind.

BTW I still mine with a host. and make small amounts of income mostly because USa tax law allow me to write the gear price off.

My credit is good and I carefully use credit cards to buy gear.

Say I buy a S21 Xp on a cc cost of 7k

I get 340 rebate from the cc cost is now 6660 I get 15 months to pay it zero interest

so 444 a month to pay it off it earns just about 420 a month not counting power. So not counting power and never laying out any money or coin I own it outright in 15 months.

power is 730 hours a month cost to run it is 185 a month.  so 15 x 185 is 2775

so it looks like I lose 2775 in 15 months.

but
 cost was 7k
 power was 2.77k
total is 9.77k make it 10k

I can write off 10k and get about 3400 tax relief

so in 15 months 3400-2775=625  wow only 665

but out of pocket was zero since it was on a cc

So I made 665 in 15 months with zero outlay

of course I can do around 10 units max this way.

so in 15 months 6650 profit. but at this point the 10 units still earn and my bills drop to just power

I net about 100 to 200 on each or 1000 to 2000 a month with no coin or cash laid out.

Downside it is a fucking grind
Downside gear will break
Downside big bear season really hurts

Do not do this is you can not afford to pay off the cc's of interest kills you.

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June 24, 2025, 02:58:55 PM
 #7

~~

Many people said the exact same thing in the past. They tried it and failed. You think you’ll accomplish something which nobody could before.

Go on. Do it and prove me wrong. I’ll wait.

You think I am mad, on the contrary, If you somehow do it successfully, I’ll be more than happy because you’ll teach me something new.

If you fail,

Not only you’ll lose money, these words will echo in your head for some time:

“I told you so.”

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June 24, 2025, 08:22:41 PM
 #8

Thanks for the answers.
But we already discussed that 1 astkm requires a lot of additional equipment.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5545798.msg65483088#msg65483088

How much does 1 cubic meter of gas cost in the US?
Maybe it is more profitable to use a gas generator?


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