How can people in extremely poor countries custody their Bitcoin?

[btcnbegun]

How markets in the poorest of countries revolve around circular markets working on about $1/day. How can these people use bitcoin non custodially when each transaction they make on chain would cost them 1/5 of their daily income? If fees ever go above 1 sat/vbyte, I would find it very hard to convince any of these people to use bitcoin. Every solution I can think of involves at least one on chain transaction or custodial solutions.

[X-ray]

I think they should be able to use lightning network. It's cheap, fast and doesn't require 1/5 of their daily income. However, if the tx fee feels like a burden you can just let it sit in a cex because the loss won't be that much anyway if things goes south like exchange collapse, etc. Other solution would be uising wrapped btc in cheaper blockchain but there's risk of depegging

[Frankolala]

It's better for such poor people earning very little amount of money and only have $1 as their disposal income not to use bitcoin for payment method but use bitcoin as long-term investment.  If  they continue accumulating with DCA overtime, they can use their bitcoin investment to upgrade their financial situation in the future. Bitcoin is best for the poor as an investment and not as a currency to use for payment.

[Awaklara]

I just think it would be difficult to explain to them (people with low incomes) the need to invest in Bitcoin or even use Bitcoin for transactions. People with very low incomes are primarily focused on earning money for food. Even if they want to save a smaller portion of their money, or the remainder of what they've spent, they'll choose fiat, which is easier to access in case of an emergency.
I'm just being realistic about someone's difficult economic situation. They certainly want to be able to save and invest, but their economic circumstances may be disruptive.

[BitGoba]

How markets in the poorest of countries revolve around circular markets working on about $1/day. How can these people use bitcoin non custodially when each transaction they make on chain would cost them 1/5 of their daily income? If fees ever go above 1 sat/vbyte, I would find it very hard to convince any of these people to use bitcoin. Every solution I can think of involves at least one on chain transaction or custodial solutions.

Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer monetary network, without banks or intermediaries everyone is their own bank. Ideally, everyone should run their own Bitcoin full nodes as well as Lightning nodes. Everyone should have their own Lightning channels.
In poorer countries, where people can’t afford to spend $200–300 on a Raspberry Pi or small computers to be their own bank, there are also custodial solutions like Wallet of Satoshi.On the Lightning Network, you can send even 1 satoshi, and transactions are instant and have very low fees.When they save larger amounts, they send them to their own on-chain addresses.It’s important to keep in mind that custodial solutions charge for their services. Nobody will run nodes or manage channels for free , they have to get paid for what they do.So it’s much better to save up $200–300 and run your own full Bitcoin and Lightning node , to be your own bank and manage your own channels. Then, if you’re well connected with many channels, you can even earn additional income by routing transactions through the peer-to-peer Lightning network.

[IIrik11]

How markets in the poorest of countries revolve around circular markets working on about $1/day. How can these people use bitcoin non custodially when each transaction they make on chain would cost them 1/5 of their daily income? If fees ever go above 1 sat/vbyte, I would find it very hard to convince any of these people to use bitcoin. Every solution I can think of involves at least one on chain transaction or custodial solutions.

Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer monetary network, without banks or intermediaries everyone is their own bank. Ideally, everyone should run their own Bitcoin full nodes as well as Lightning nodes. Everyone should have their own Lightning channels.
In poorer countries, where people can’t afford to spend $200–300 on a Raspberry Pi or small computers to be their own bank, there are also custodial solutions like Wallet of Satoshi.On the Lightning Network, you can send even 1 satoshi, and transactions are instant and have very low fees.When they save larger amounts, they send them to their own on-chain addresses.It’s important to keep in mind that custodial solutions charge for their services. Nobody will run nodes or manage channels for free , they have to get paid for what they do.So it’s much better to save up $200–300 and run your own full Bitcoin and Lightning node , to be your own bank and manage your own channels. Then, if you’re well connected with many channels, you can even earn additional income by routing transactions through the peer-to-peer Lightning network.

care to explain more on this?

or provide links that have guides or tutorials

i have a spare computer which sits idle all day

how can i set up lighetning node on it and earn some sats?

if it is profitable enough i can even purchase a raspberry pi

pls share info, thx

[peter0425]

It's better for such poor people earning very little amount of money and only have $1 as their disposal income not to use bitcoin for payment method but use bitcoin as long-term investment. 

Poor people can barely afford bitcoin so I doubt they will easily spend it over about anything. I also do not think they will be making transactions that are huge because again... they are poor. They will not be buying anything expensive. If they want to have bitcoin, they can build their holdings over time but if they still have very few I do not think they would want to use it for a transaction.

[m2017]

It's better for such poor people earning very little amount of money and only have $1 as their disposal income not to use bitcoin for payment method but use bitcoin as long-term investment.  If  they continue accumulating with DCA overtime, they can use their bitcoin investment to upgrade their financial situation in the future. Bitcoin is best for the poor as an investment and not as a currency to use for payment.

With his daily income of $1, such a person should cover his daily needs (food, drink, etc.) and only the remaining money can be spent on buying bitcoin, which will probably be less than $1. And then, buy bitcoin with the remaining "less than $1" money, from which part will go to the exchanger's commission (part of this amount will be spent on the BTC-network commission for the transaction). As a result, a near-zero amount will come to the wallet of the hypothetical "poor person".

Can reduce expenses if first save $1 for a month, and then buy bitcoin for 1 transaction. But still, in my opinion, this will allow to accumulate very little amount of BTC and it will take "eternity" to accumulate a significant and noticeable amount.

It seems to me that for the poor, bitcoin is not suitable for either investment or payment, and therefore, in poor countries, bitcoin will not be able to become widespread until the standard of living in these countries rises to an acceptable level (when people will have at least a small surplus in money minus the cost of daily needs). Also, to use bitcoin, need a PC/laptop or a smartphone. And how do you imagine buying even the cheapest smartphone with a daily income of $1? That is, a technical limitation arises that will "slow down" the adoption of bitcoin in poor countries. In poor countries, it is easier to use "old paper money" as a means of payment and a means of accumulation. Of course, this is a bad option, but in that situation, it is "the lesser evil."

[NotATether]

Most people in those countries do not transaction on-chain and the ones that do, do not receive 3rd-world wages.

They most likely earn their money online at USD rates. Not as much as the average US employee but still a lot.

They would most likely use some altcoin, MAYBE Lightning Network but that depends on whether they have heard of such a thing. Altcoins are ore widely marketed on social media in their local languages than LN.

[shield132]

How markets in the poorest of countries revolve around circular markets working on about $1/day. How can these people use bitcoin non custodially when each transaction they make on chain would cost them 1/5 of their daily income? If fees ever go above 1 sat/vbyte, I would find it very hard to convince any of these people to use bitcoin. Every solution I can think of involves at least one on chain transaction or custodial solutions.

I don't know in which country people regularly earn as low as 1$ per day, I mean the majority of the population, but if there are such countries, then I'm sure that in such countries people do not have access to computers, smartphones and laptops. They won't also have access to the internet because it's expensive and might cost them 1 week of their salary. Also, with the tech and internet, you have to consider electricity, which isn't cheap anywhere besides Russia. There is simply no way for such a low earner to have access to Bitcoin or informational technologies, so Bitcoin is not really for them.
Btw in the extreme cases, if their friends or close people have access to Bitcoin and these people need to make a transaction, they can use Lightning Network or use an alternative currency like Ripple or Litecoin.

[WatChe]

It's better for such poor people earning very little amount of money and only have $1 as their disposal income not to use bitcoin for payment method but use bitcoin as long-term investment.  If  they continue accumulating with DCA overtime, they can use their bitcoin investment to upgrade their financial situation in the future. Bitcoin is best for the poor as an investment and not as a currency to use for payment.

We recently saw a case in which a whale has moved 80,000 Bitcoin after 14 years and it is believed that these Bitcoins are purchased for less then a dollar. The whale has got an astonishing return of around 4 million percent on it's investment he made 14 years ago.

This case clearly tells us the importance of rightly investing your money in right asset. Those who think that investing small amount in Bitcoin won't be of much use must study this case. No matter how much you have just keep investing in Bitcoin but for long duration and you will get good return.   

[BitGoba]

care to explain more on this?

or provide links that have guides or tutorials

i have a spare computer which sits idle all day

how can i set up lighetning node on it and earn some sats?

if it is profitable enough i can even purchase a raspberry pi

pls share info, thx

You need to run a full Bitcoin node that will be online 24/7.You must have enough bitcoin to open Lightning channels.
When you open a Lightning channel, the bitcoin gets locked on-chain as a 2 of 2 multisig  you and the other party each have a key and can close the channel.
When the channel is closed, the settlement is done on-chain.If you have enough channels, transactions can be routed through your Bitcoin full node and Lightning node, and you earn routing fees.

At the beginning, it may seem complicated, but it's actually easy to learn.Here are some resources and video tutorials , anyone can learn it easily.

Here you can find a huge number of tutorials about Lightning

https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/nodes-en.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qohA_3HdzAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxkrUvrfNAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv-r-0SR6sA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lojku8Tstyg

$300 DIY Mini PC Bitcoin Node | How to install StartOS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXVgGLaEEwc

How to run a Bitcoin node on a DIY Start9 ( MiniPC server)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8Q-UrPBt9o

How to create a Lightning node on a DIY Start9 ( MiniPC server)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yWvbclNiXg

Zeus: Self-Custodial Bitcoin Lightning On Mobile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIohVX7PeAA

Bitcoin Lightning Network: How to Send and Receive Payments


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGNvaJyZ25A

[IIrik11]

care to explain more on this?

or provide links that have guides or tutorials

i have a spare computer which sits idle all day

how can i set up lighetning node on it and earn some sats?

if it is profitable enough i can even purchase a raspberry pi

pls share info, thx

You need to run a full Bitcoin node that will be online 24/7.You must have enough bitcoin to open Lightning channels.
When you open a Lightning channel, the bitcoin gets locked on-chain as a 2 of 2 multisig  you and the other party each have a key and can close the channel.
When the channel is closed, the settlement is done on-chain.If you have enough channels, transactions can be routed through your Bitcoin full node and Lightning node, and you earn routing fees.

At the beginning, it may seem complicated, but it's actually easy to learn.Here are some resources and video tutorials , anyone can learn it easily.

Here you can find a huge number of tutorials about Lightning

https://darth-coin.github.io/nodes/nodes-en.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qohA_3HdzAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxkrUvrfNAI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv-r-0SR6sA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lojku8Tstyg

$300 DIY Mini PC Bitcoin Node | How to install StartOS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXVgGLaEEwc

How to run a Bitcoin node on a DIY Start9 ( MiniPC server)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8Q-UrPBt9o

How to create a Lightning node on a DIY Start9 ( MiniPC server)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yWvbclNiXg

Zeus: Self-Custodial Bitcoin Lightning On Mobile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIohVX7PeAA

Bitcoin Lightning Network: How to Send and Receive Payments


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGNvaJyZ25A

seems quite complicated

but i'll try

thx so much

[SuperBitMan]

I just think it would be difficult to explain to them (people with low incomes) the need to invest in Bitcoin or even use Bitcoin for transactions. People with very low incomes are primarily focused on earning money for food. Even if they want to save a smaller portion of their money, or the remainder of what they've spent, they'll choose fiat, which is easier to access in case of an emergency.
I'm just being realistic about someone's difficult economic situation. They certainly want to be able to save and invest, but their economic circumstances may be disruptive.

Yes you are right, some set of people in some countries don't have discretionary income, when ever they receive there salary it goes to food and sometimes it won't even serve them till when next they will receive another salary, some even borrow money and then pay back later when they receive salary and still borrow again, this kind of people will never invest on Bitcoin because they don't have the financial strength for it.
You can't tell someone without a discretionary income to invest in Bitcoin, is wrong to even do that in the first place if you want to help the person what you should do is to introduce him or her to a side hustle that will be giving him or her more money after that you can now introduce him or her to Bitcoin, we know that in other to make good profit in Bitcoin it is when you hold for long term and to hold faithfully for long term you need to have a good source of income.

[DanWalker]

I don't know in which country people regularly earn as low as 1$ per day, I mean the majority of the population, but if there are such countries, then I'm sure that in such countries people do not have access to computers, smartphones and laptops. They won't also have access to the internet because it's expensive and might cost them 1 week of their salary. Also, with the tech and internet, you have to consider electricity, which isn't cheap anywhere besides Russia. There is simply no way for such a low earner to have access to Bitcoin or informational technologies, so Bitcoin is not really for them.
Btw in the extreme cases, if their friends or close people have access to Bitcoin and these people need to make a transaction, they can use Lightning Network or use an alternative currency like Ripple or Litecoin.

$1/day may sound extreme, but the truth is that the poorest countries in the world in Africa like South Sudan, Central African Republic or Democratic Republic of Congo...According to the World Bank, these are countries with an average income of $2-$3/day and this figure accounts for 60-80% of the population. Likewise, only 3%-10% of people in those countries have access to the Internet. That's the main reason why the adoption of bitcoin as legal tender in the Central African Republic quickly failed just a few months later in 2021.

You are right, bitcoin is not for them.


https://www.worldatlas.com/gdp/the-poorest-countries-in-the-world.html

[SamReomo]

I think they should be able to use lightning network. It's cheap, fast and doesn't require 1/5 of their daily income.

The use of Lightning network isn't going to help them, and most people even try to avoid using the lightning network. A better solution for such people is to save their income for a month or two and then DCA that on Bitcoin by paying some fees. Although, the fees will remain the same but after two months or more they can still save enough on fees by DCAying.

[michellee]

They don't have to use Bitcoin too often but only use Bitcoin for their saving. They shifted their money into Bitcoin instead of fiat savings especially for those who know Bitcoin potential in the future. They will search for how they can maximize their potential to earn more money to buy Bitcoin and not use Bitcoin in the daily expenses.

They can use local exchanges to buy Bitcoin and only send their Bitcoin when the amount is enough to cover the fees. Or they can hodl their Bitcoin for some time, they will determine that. The important thing, no matter if they come from third world or develop countries, they need to learn how to adapt with their current situation. We don't know how they live in their country so we can only suggest what we know.

[Frankolala]

It's better for such poor people earning very little amount of money and only have $1 as their disposal income not to use bitcoin for payment method but use bitcoin as long-term investment.  If  they continue accumulating with DCA overtime, they can use their bitcoin investment to upgrade their financial situation in the future. Bitcoin is best for the poor as an investment and not as a currency to use for payment.

We recently saw a case in which a whale has moved 80,000 Bitcoin after 14 years and it is believed that these Bitcoins are purchased for less then a dollar. The whale has got an astonishing return of around 4 million percent on it's investment he made 14 years ago.

This case clearly tells us the importance of rightly investing your money in right asset. Those who think that investing small amount in Bitcoin won't be of much use must study this case. No matter how much you have just keep investing in Bitcoin but for long duration and you will get good return.   

Of course, there's power in little gathering because it will pile up overtime to a good size that will be beyond your imagination. This is why I do encourage the poor to invest with as little amount as possible into bitcoin provided it is theit discretionary income, because they will be in a better position in ten years time if they can hodli compare to when they don't have any bitcoin. Poor people spend on unnecessary things, if only they can channel that money into bitcoin, they will be happy in future.

[yhiaali3]

I live in a poor country where my monthly salary does not exceed $100. I cannot obtain Bitcoin through my income or salary from the country I live in, but rather through my work here on the forum and other cryptocurrency businesses.

Through my work in crypto, I earn a good incom so I have no problem paying fees. However, for people who do not work in crypto and do not earn additional income, their primary concern will be obtaining Bitcoin, not network fees. If they manage to obtain Bitcoin somehow, they will certainly not use it for daily transactions but rather keep it for the long term.

[Oshio-man]

They don't have to use Bitcoin too often but only use Bitcoin for their saving. They shifted their money into Bitcoin instead of fiat savings especially for those who know Bitcoin potential in the future. They will search for how they can maximize their potential to earn more money to buy Bitcoin and not use Bitcoin in the daily expenses.

I think, it will help people living in such geographic area to grow financially and materially when they release bitcoin they have saved for years to earn good income. Until they have the knowledge of bitcoin before such people will have the idea, of how to shift their traditional money into bitcoin because they know what they are going to earn when they endure in long term holding, and it will definitely create  an opportunity for them to maximize income in the future, People in that situation must be ready to take a risk on how to invest in bitcoin what they can afford to lose in bitcoin, before embark on bitcoin investment.