Electrum seed modification, please help.

[goodjobjesse]

Hello,

Could someone please help me? I am helping a person who's family member passed away, to restore his btc funds. I have never seen something like this. Who could please explain this? There is a 12 word electrum seed phrase which opens a valid 2fa wallet with history. The funds where moved to a different wallet. If you use the same 5 words in same correct order as the 2fa wallet, and add the word bitcoin it opens a segwit wallet ( 6 words in total ). Empty, without any history. After 9 words i add the word - bit , and it opens a standart wallet. Also all empty with no history. One of the word from the 12 word list is "night" and if you just enter nig, electrum opens a 2fa_segwit wallet, also all empty (5 words in total). There are around 10 wallets that i have found which are very weird, and probably there are more that this person has created. The big question. How did he create this types of wallet? They are not random words, some include personal nicknames and pet names. Can someone please explain what sorcery is this? How did the person modify electrum to create this type of non standart wallets? I would be very very grateful if someone could explain this.

Thank you.

[hosemary]

Did you check BIP39 when importing the seed phrase?
Electrum allow you to generate a wallet using any combination of words or characters, if you check BIP39.


Look at the following image. The "next" button is clickable while I entered some arbitrary characters.

[goodjobjesse]

Thank you for your reply,

No, this is not related to bip39, it only works on electrum. And it only allows specific words of the correct 12 word electrum seed phrase to open different types of wallets, standart, segwit, 2fa_segwit...
Here are some examples i was talking about. All these wallets have no history and are empty. Only explanation i have that he used an extra passphrase.
But my main question is how he even got to creat these types of wallets in the first place? ( 4,5 or 8 seed words from original wallet + own word.)

https://iili.io/FjMOJB1.jpg https://iili.io/FjMO2rg.jpg https://iili.io/FjMOdEF.jpg https://iili.io/FjMOF2a.jpg

If you put any random symbols or random words, electrum will not recognize it, and you will not be able to proceed. Only specific combiantions, that i don't understand how or why.

[hosemary]

But my main question is how he even got to creat these types of wallets in the first place? ( 4,5 or 8 seed words from original wallet + own word.)

Electrum seed phrase doesn't have to contain exactly 12 words and you can have any number of words.
Also, electrum doesn't rely on any fixed wordlist and whatever words or characters you enter as your seed phrase, there's chance that it's a valid electrum seed phrase.

Electrum hashes whatever you enter as seed phrase and if the result starts with 01, 100 or 101, the seed phrase is valid.

[goodjobjesse]

Okey, but why only certaint extra word combos work? When i put random words or symbols electrum doesn't recognize the seed as a valid wallet, and you can't proceed. You are saying that you could basically put any word or symbol, and electrum will accept it, but thats not true. And why do only certaint words that he used in his passwords or nicknames and pet names work? And especially it opens 2fa_segwit wallets? You want to say that this random?

[hosemary]

You are saying that you could basically put any word or symbol, and electrum will accept it, but thats not true.

I didn't say this about electrum seed phrase.
Once you enter something as your seed phrase, electrum calculates its hash and if the results starts with 01, 100 or 101, electrum will accpet it as a valid seed phrase and generate a wallet.

If the hash starts with 01, it will generate a legacy wallet, if the hash starts with 100, it will generate a segwit wallet and if the hash starts with 101, it will generate a 2FA wallet.


Below is a valid seed phrase:

Code:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[goodjobjesse]

Okey, i understand this. Thank you for clarification.
So you want to say that after entering 5 words, and putting the 6th word - bitcoin , bitcoincash. It is pure accidental electrum hash calculation?
Also electrum gives a valid wallet after i enter the 12 words and put 13th word - his dogs name - juggernaut. This is pure electrum hash calculations?
I fully understand what you mean, and thank you for your help. But i am confused, that it is not just random words whitch generate a valid wallet, but direct words what he would use. Like if he would be hidding it.

[hosemary]

So you want to say that after entering 5 words, and putting the 6th word - bitcoin , bitcoincash. It is pure accidental electrum hash calculation?

Yes. Electrum hashed the seed phrase, checked the version number and the seed phrase was valid.

But i am confused, that it is not just random words whitch generate a valid wallet, but direct words what he would use. Like if he would be hidding it.

You probably tried many other words and it was normal that you ended up with some valid seed phrases and were able to generate some wallets.
As you said, all those wallets were empty and that probably means that they didn't generate those wallets at all.

[nc50lc]

I fully understand what you mean, and thank you for your help. But i am confused, that it is not just random words whitch generate a valid wallet, but direct words what he would use. Like if he would be hidding it.

I previously explained how an Electrum seed phrase is validated/created, in this topic: /index.php?topic=5502361.msg64305668#msg64305668
It includes examples for SegWit and Legacy Electrum seed version number.

Additionally, Electrum seed phrase after v2.0 can be any word/gibberish, the BIP39 wordlist that it uses is only for in-wallet seed phrase generation.
But its seed versions system doesn't limit it to those words.