France Wants People to Work More for Less

[EFS]

The timing of this news is interesting because last week we had similar reports in my country too. A new regulation was introduced in the tourism sector requiring people to work 10 days and then get 1 day off. Apparently, the same thing is being considered for the construction sector as well.

As long as there's no organized working class, no strong unions and no civil society groups protecting workers' rights, these companies will keep exploiting their employees. This is nothing but voluntary slavery.

[roemer]

I would like to discuss something I have read about France, but it seems that it can happen almost everywhere. The government there wants to cut two public holidays so people work more days. They claim it is to assist in resolving their massive debt issue, but when you examine what is actually occurring, it does not sit well

First, most of the French is opposed to it (eventually). Over 70% answered no to the loss of their holidays. The amount of money that the government would save (approximately 4 billion euros) is relatively little in comparison to the total debt of the country, and it is nearly equal to the amount they are spending additionally on the military. Therefore, individuals are being requested to work longer, yet they will not actually earn more

Most of my friends have had jobs where a day off is worth more than a small bonus. It is not even about money. What matters most to them (and me) are the simple things: family dinners, lazy afternoons, and time to read new ideas or work on new projects or just play games with the community (Yeah, I might talk about our bitcointalk Poker events haha). The governments keep asking normal people to sacrifice, while they avoid the real problems, like how work and taxes are set up

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

europe has more holidays then all the other countries combined

[LeGaulois]

You're all about money, and you think only about the money's bells
A native Frenchman knows very well that the real reason has nothing to do with money. See which days could disappear and look at the history of the country. Ask them then why not delete the May 1st or July 14. All his written since 250 years already, they're just countinuing to do their job.

If they really wanted to save money they would stop funding the invaders who come to my country, or funding roads in africa or fighting tax fraud
IIRC the guy is part of the The Grand Orient de France the largest Freemasonic organization

“France has been stolen from the French, ever since it was planted in their heads that France was solely the work of the State, not theirs, that the only duty of good Frenchmen was to facilitate the State's task.”

Georges Bernanos

[Spaceman1000$]

In my country they don't have to propose something in order to be implemented, they can do whatever they want.

As we know any jobs will give one day free per week for their employees or 4 days per month, here many boss only give 1-2 days free per month, some of them don't even give any free day at all, so the employees are working like a robot.

The worker's right organization is so fucked up, hence the boss/companies didn't get any punishment.

I can easily relate to your situation, what the big companies do is that they capture those of them in government, like the legislature and they executive's by giving them some kickbacks or incentives so they could easily look away hence the labor laws are not followed to the latter, making employees to be helpless whenever they are asked to work overtime and still not paid handsomely. When a government does not propose something before putting it in place, it then means there is fragrant disregard for human rights and there is likely the existence of executive rascality by those in power.

[l3pox]

<...>

What would you do when your country attempted this? <..>

I work for clients and for myself, not for institutions and the government so for me it wouldn't change
but I bet most people would be mad about it

I think more and more we should come back to Thoreau when he writes Walden and Civil disobedience

opens quote:

Civil disobedience is the active and professed refusal of a citizen to obey certain laws, demands, orders, or commands of a government. By some definitions, civil disobedience has to be nonviolent to be called "civil". Hence, civil disobedience is sometimes equated with peaceful protests or nonviolent resistance.

You don't always have to do what they tell you to do
this is plain simple
but quite rare attitude to see nowadays

[slapper]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

I have nothing to do and it will not be of any pain for me because I am not a government worker, I have my own business and I have to do it in order to make money. The more I work the more the money I will make. I will rather prefer to stay not saying anything about it.

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

Yes, they just want to transfer the pain to people. The French government should do something about it and find alternatives instead.

Respect!! Running your own business is the real freedom. Nobody can take your time except your customers and your own ambition. If you can outwork and outsmart the system, that is winning, and not everyone has that option. Why complain if it does not cut into your pocket?

But, this is exactly how governments and old systems get away with dumping pain on everyone else. They count on people who "are not affected" to stay silent. It is divide and rule. Freelancers, business owners, and workers are all kept in their own lanes, so the politicians keep shifting the burden while everyone thinks, "Not my problem". Today it is holidays for public workers. Tomorrow it is another "small" thing: higher VAT, more regulation, or suddenly your customers have less cash to spend. The pain always trickles sideways. If we all shrug and say "not my issue", eventually the squeeze gets everyone, just not at the same time

There’s a law in our country that says benefits already given to workers can’t be taken back, but they can still add more. what’s happening now is the government wants to remove some holidays so people will work more.

I don’t think that really helps workers, especially if they’re already okay with what they’re earning. Those holidays are important too as it’s when they get to spend time with their families. So, a lot of people will definitely complain about it. But if it’s the government’s policy to boost the economy, then it’s tough to go against it. At the end of the day, if we’re employees, we just follow what the law says.

Why do we always have to just "follow the law" when it makes no sense for regular people? If a government can take back time that is already part of our lives, what is stopping them from stealing away more next year, or every year after that?

You might be right, the law might say benefits cannot be taken back, but now they want to change the law when it is convenient for them, not for us. It is always "for the good of the economy", but most of the time, the benefits never actually reach us. Workers are told to do their part, while big bosses and politicians barely feel a thing. It is always the little guy who pays, and families lose out the most

If everyone just goes along because it is "the law", then nothing ever changes. You see, people in France out on the streets or making noise online. If there is one thing I have learned from crypto, it is that rules are only as strong as the people who accept them. When rules get too unfair, people will eventually push back, and it can be hard

French are actually some of the luckiest people in the world thanks to a 5 day, 35 hours work week to be honest since majority of the countries make their people work for around 10 hours or more, 5 days a week.

Some countries even make their people work like animals for 7 days a week without any break in between. This is why I get why the French are opposing this bullshit. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

People always joke about the "lazy French" but anyone calling the French soft has never worked a real grind in half the world. Most people out there are breaking their backs for nothing close to a 35-hour week or proper weekends. The French earned their rights through years of fighting, not because the government handed it out for free. Politicians know all this, yet they still try to take away the few protections people have left. If you push French workers too far, you get riots, not quiet acceptance. That is a lesson a lot of governments refuse to learn, probably because in most places, protest gets crushed or ignored

And yeah, "work like animals" is not even an exaggeration. I know people working 10, 12, even 14-hour days, no break, just so they can afford rent and food. No holidays, no respect, no time for family. Meanwhile, those at the top treat time off like a luxury for "rich" countries only. What a joke!

Why are others here focusing on "people to work more for less" as stated in the thread subject? It's just part of the proposed plan for spending cuts, as they are aiming to improve the country's budget deficit in the following years.

Besides, it's only 2 public holidays there that will be affected, and the reasons for selecting those are reasonable for me. Like for example, Easter Monday in France is a public holiday. In my country, there's no Easter Monday holiday. The long weekend is surely enough from Holy Thursday to Easter Sunday. No need to extend it on Monday and make it a working day instead.

Please read the article and don't focus on the thread title. It won't be a harm at all if only 2 public holidays are cut the entire year. The selection criteria is even great as only holidays that extend after the weekend are considered.

It is easy to say when you're not the one losing them, and when your country never had them in the first place. But to most French people, those are the way life structured. They are tied to family, tradition, and, yeah, mental health. You cut that, and you are telling millions that their time isn't valuable

And about "budget deficit logic", the government's plan is always about making a show for markets and ratings agencies, not really fixing the roots of the problem. The numbers even say so: the money saved from these two holidays is less than 10% of what they need, and it is almost cancelled out by increased military spending. How does that make sense? If it is just numbers, then why does almost 90% of the population say "no". Are they all dumb, or is there something deeper you are missing?

It is not about "Holy Thursday" or "Easter Monday" in isolation. When the state starts with small things, something you call "no big deal", that is how people learn their voice does not count. You might not care about a Monday off, but for a single parent, a low-wage worker, or someone who plans their whole year around rare family time, it matters a lot. If you do not see it, maybe it is not about overreacting. Maybe it is about having a different life experience

[Nwada001]

As long as there's no organized working class, no strong unions and no civil society groups protecting workers' rights, these companies will keep exploiting their employees. This is nothing but voluntary slavery.

In my country, where we have a body like the NLC (Nigeria Labour Congress), they are in charge of trying to make sure that the working conditions of all workers are favorable as they stand out as one and speak up, but there is always one problem.

Once an issue like this is raised, the best that they can do is impose an emergency strike, and the government can try to bargain with them and look for solutions, but the new laws of the government will always stand. The best they can do is promise an increase in wages, which will never be effective, and in the worst-case scenario, few people will be asked to favour others in order to silence others. In countries where there are not many employment opportunities, while you want to consider leaving the job, others are willing to accept it with lesser payment.

[yhiaali3]

If it is optional, I would choose vacation over work. What's worse is that the salary will remain the same even though the vacation period is reduced. This is the worst idea the government could implement.

Workers need rest to rejuvenate themselves and spend some time with their children and families, and Practicing some hobbies that help stimulate the body and mind and benefit the workers and the work. Depriving workers from holidays will have negative effects on the business because they will certainly not perform their work with the same energy and productivity.

[Don Saga]

I would like to discuss something I have read about France, but it seems that it can happen almost everywhere. The government there wants to cut two public holidays so people work more days. They claim it is to assist in resolving their massive debt issue, but when you examine what is actually occurring, it does not sit well

First, most of the French is opposed to it (eventually). Over 70% answered no to the loss of their holidays. The amount of money that the government would save (approximately 4 billion euros) is relatively little in comparison to the total debt of the country, and it is nearly equal to the amount they are spending additionally on the military. Therefore, individuals are being requested to work longer, yet they will not actually earn more

Most of my friends have had jobs where a day off is worth more than a small bonus. It is not even about money. What matters most to them (and me) are the simple things: family dinners, lazy afternoons, and time to read new ideas or work on new projects or just play games with the community (Yeah, I might talk about our bitcointalk Poker events haha). The governments keep asking normal people to sacrifice, while they avoid the real problems, like how work and taxes are set up

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

France canceling two holiday days just to ease them from alot of debt they are holding won't help in reduce it.
Instead it would break family's bond because workers won't have enough time for their family members.
I guess another method should be brought in to reduce debts and not this.

[Lida93]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

I have nothing to do and it will not be of any pain for me because I am not a government worker, I have my own business and I have to do it in order to make money. The more I work the more the money I will make. I will rather prefer to stay not saying anything about it.

This is where a self employed individual running his own business venture has much of an advantage over the public workers, no one gets to dictate when you have to works, what hours, your holidays or extensions. The more energy and time you exert to your business determines the increment in profit you'll be making at the end of the day, week or month, but unlike the public servant the salary remains static for a long period of time even with extra working hours on certain days.

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

Yes, they just want to transfer the pain to people. The French government should do something about it and find alternatives instead.

Similarly in my country this has been a common culture with each administrations. They loot public funds and indirectly passover their burden of funding certain government projects and infrastructures on the citizens by raising more funds through increased taxes and high tariff.

[AmoreJaz]

If it is optional, I would choose vacation over work. What's worse is that the salary will remain the same even though the vacation period is reduced. This is the worst idea the government could implement.

Workers need rest to rejuvenate themselves and spend some time with their children and families, and Practicing some hobbies that help stimulate the body and mind and benefit the workers and the work. Depriving workers from holidays will have negative effects on the business because they will certainly not perform their work with the same energy and productivity.

In time, they will understand the value of rest for their workforce. It will drain their productivity if they will work more. Much better to the scenario that they will offer some vacation and the workers will come back more energetic and so it will be more efficient to their operations in general.

Just think of the benefits that the employer can derive from giving rest to its employees
 The Importance of Rest: Enhancing Productivity, Mood, and Relationships

- boost productivity, creativity
- mood > less burnout, manage stress
- relationships > can improve interactions to others leading better teamwork & collaboration
- work and life balance > we still have life outside of work.

In short, it goes to show that rest is not a luxury, but a must for all workers to gain its positive aspect that it can bring to the workforce.

[Davidvictorson]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

I actually thought that the days for working would be reduced so that people can focus on your mental health and be more efficient and productive in the organization. But now that's the government of France is proposing this Demi have a mental health crisis waiting to occur.  If this happens in my country we wouldn't do anything because the government would use the secret police to arrest you and silence you. The government should listen to the voice of the people.

[LogitechMouse]

---
Most of my friends have had jobs where a day off is worth more than a small bonus. It is not even about money. What matters most to them (and me) are the simple things: family dinners, lazy afternoons, and time to read new ideas or work on new projects or just play games with the community (Yeah, I might talk about our bitcointalk Poker events haha). The governments keep asking normal people to sacrifice, while they avoid the real problems, like how work and taxes are set up

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

We are all employees who are working 8 hours more or less just so that we have something that we can use for our expenses, but we are also human beings, and human beings need some rest in both their physical, and mental as well. Working for more then not being paid seems like a modern-day slavery at least for me.

Health is wealth, and having day-offs adds is a positive thing to our mental health. Day-offs means those things that you shared, but to add on it, I will also add "time to sleep" because we all need those sleeping hours to cope up with the stress that we got working hours after hours for consecutive days. Sacrificing for the country might be good AS LONG AS you're being paid with the right amount, but sacrificing without any benefit is just stupidity. Fortunately for our country, they aren't implementing this, but the companies are the one that's implementing this for the sake of their company. There are some companies that are underpaying their employees, but giving more workload which is for me, slavery.

As for your question, hell no. Working more = more stress, and I want to be compensated with those stress that I got because that might've affect me mentally. Sacrifice? That's bullsh*t. It does good to those companies, or the government, but not for those who are working. Resting is a necessity, and we need it for us to be productive in the succeeding days.

[bitLeap]

Increasing work schedules without a salary increase will destroy the company itself. Although they are basically working to survive and make ends meet, the government and the company's policy to increase work is violating the rights of workers. When the balance between workers and jobs is disrupted, no matter how much the state tries to increase economic growth, it will only create resistance. This is the definition of colonization by modern means, how can you grow ideal productivity if employees are not treated well.
This is a problem in many countries and somehow this kind of system always wins with the same threat if you don't want to work, please leave because there are still many people ready to queue up to take your place.

[pooya87]

As the economy gets worse, they will enforce worse laws that degrades people's quality of life. For example 2 years ago in France they increased the retirement age by 2 years and demanded that people have to had worked 43 years before they can retire at 64!

The war NATO started with the East is eating them up. This is exactly the economic crisis I have been talking about for at least the past 3 years and a handful of users in this board denied it!
And these are the good days of the crisis...

[fruktik]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

You have already answered your own questions. Well, what benefit can we talk about? These are all fairy tales from those in power. If they cannot improve economic processes in the country, then it is time for someone to leave their post. There is no point in just sitting out the states if there is no positive result. Why does the government always try to solve problems at the expense of the people? Maybe it is time to reduce spending on the Elysee Palace? Why not start with this? Or should the government spend as much money on itself as it wants?

[shinratensei_]

French are actually some of the luckiest people in the world thanks to a 5 day, 35 hours work week to be honest since majority of the countries make their people work for around 10 hours or more, 5 days a week.

Some countries even make their people work like animals for 7 days a week without any break in between. This is why I get why the French are opposing this bullshit. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

Right? that sounds like heaven, 5 days 35 hours work in a week. They are already having it very good in there honestly I would be more surprised if they didn't object.
I'm sure there are things out there that can help pay off the country's debt without cutting holidays. If i'm not mistaken, i've read that over working people, reducing holidays and so on makes people unproductive.

[Zlantann]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

The reasons for the ending of these two holidays look reasonable if everyone sacrifices. Let it not be the same situation in my country where government officials will tell citizens to sacrifice while they continue to live in luxury. If it will help the government reduce debt and also help businesses to make profit, it's not that bad. However, these two days are definitely beneficial to workers who use them to rest, stay with family, and do other important activities. No French resident will be pleased if the economy is drowned by debt, hence there is a need for compromise.

In my country, the government can implement any policy because the labour unions can be bribed. Workers wouldn't have any choice but to comply. The country's government is known for syphoning public funds, so such policy will just be for he benefit of the ruling class. They have kept telling us to make sacrifices for a better future but things are worsening.

[shield132]

As the economy gets worse, they will enforce worse laws that degrades people's quality of life. For example 2 years ago in France they increased the retirement age by 2 years and demanded that people have to had worked 43 years before they can retire at 64!

The war NATO started with the East is eating them up. This is exactly the economic crisis I have been talking about for at least the past 3 years and a handful of users in this board denied it!
And these are the good days of the crisis...

In France you at least can retire, get a normal pension and live a normal life but in my country, people even in their 70s and sometimes in 80s, work hard every day to earn some money. It's very common for those in their 60s and 70s to work as a taxi driver and to work on constructions or some trades.
Btw I agree with you about the fact that world isn't going in a good direction. Years pass and life is getting harder and to my mind, that's because capitalism doesn't work long-term, it needs some kind of reset because these rich people that get richer ever year, do not care about the people and about employees, they try to get more money from people and to enslave them to force them to work on pennies.

There is a thing that I don't understand about France too. Lots of people from my country, especially those who have some kind of disease, go in France and they get free treatment, including free housing, some money, free doctors, free bloodwork, free surgeries, free caregivers and etc. Why do they do this? Their taxpayers pay so much money and this money gets spend illogically.

[Catenaccio]

There is a thing that I don't understand about France too. Lots of people from my country, especially those who have some kind of disease, go in France and they get free treatment, including free housing, some money, free doctors, free bloodwork, free surgeries, free caregivers and etc. Why do they do this? Their taxpayers pay so much money and this money gets spend illogically.

They probably are buying votes from those immigrants by giving them so good social wealthfares and turn those immigrants to their supporters and voters. It's not actually good for France generally if those immigrants don't contribute enough for French societies. It's bad for French who work hard and pay high tax that is used and delivered so generously for immigrants.

Please understand me rightly. I don't see any wrong if those social wealthfares are delievered to legal, quality and constructive immigrants but I see it is so wrong to with delivery to non quality and non constructive immigrants.