Can 25x position ever work out to profits

[Oshosondy]

I remember JamesWynn when he always posts his position with a x40 leverage. I mean it work for him for a moment, and made huge money, but overtime, he lost, and lost, and lost. Right now, I don't have any updates about him anymore with regards to his positions.

After his deep regret on social media and after he deactivated his X account, he later reactivated it back and also open positions again. tvplus006 talked about it

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5549576.msg65594928#msg65594928
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5549576.msg65597925#msg65597925

I think he will have more information about him that he can post on this or that thread if there is any need.

25x leverage is too much and I think it will be used by only greedy traders.

[JohsSmith]

I get what you’re saying – x25 is brutal most of the time, because one small move against you and you’re wiped out. It’s basically giving the exchange your stop loss on a plate.
That said, I’ve seen people pull profits with it, but it’s always on very short timeframes and usually pure luck more than skill. The risk-to-reward ratio just doesn’t make sense long term. Even seasoned traders usually stick to much lower leverage because it gives you breathing room if the market whipsaws.

[tvplus006]

- Are the people who are posting their insights in the topic about leverage, and "how/when/how large", have a winning track record in trading with a large sample size of more than five years?

I think that most of the participants did not know what cryptocurrency was five years ago) But I can say for myself that I've been trading profitably for the last few years. Now I have looked at my trades for the last 2 months and I see that out of 95 trades, only 4 were closed with a small loss. Of course, I don't earn millions, but I make a steady profit of 1-3 thousand dollars per month.

[Ndabagi01]

If I were trading millions of dollars, I would choose spot over futures.
But for some reason, many people like to use high amounts of leverage... are they that greedy?

Not many people that have a lot of money like million dollars want to go for spot trading and leave futures trading which is full of risks when compared to spot trading. Most of them go for highly risky trades to give them huge income immediately which they can’t wait patiently when it comes to spot trading. Spot trading gives bigger profit when you trade with large amount of money, but not many of them that have lots of money even look into that direction to earn cool money with less risk applied.

We may all agree here that 25x is too much leverage to use in futures, but it will not change the fact that there are many traders making profit in futures with that amount of leverage. Some of these traders either have a low account size, and using the leverage like 25X is alright for them, while others really are very confident in their analysis and, based on the psychology level, are able to leverage up to that amount.

Never say never.

I don’t really see the leverage been used by a trader as the basis of whether he has over risked his trade or applied proper risk management to his or her trades. It is always the capital first that will determine if the leverage they’re using for a trade is okay or way too much for them that they’ll get liquidated. It’s all a game of understanding and those that knows how to trade better, play around leverage and still make good profits.

[justdimin]

I get what you’re saying – x25 is brutal most of the time, because one small move against you and you’re wiped out. It’s basically giving the exchange your stop loss on a plate.
That said, I’ve seen people pull profits with it, but it’s always on very short timeframes and usually pure luck more than skill. The risk-to-reward ratio just doesn’t make sense long term. Even seasoned traders usually stick to much lower leverage because it gives you breathing room if the market whipsaws.

It is "possible", hence why people are doing it. I mean why would anyone do it if it was impossible to make any money from it. The problem is that you have to be a very good trader to pull this off, because unlike spot trading, this could make you lose all your trade amount in a second, just one bad move and it's all gone like you said.

So you have to be right very often, and if you have a run of bad trades, then suddenly you have nothing left. This is why it's a much higher level of risk and that is why most people do not do it. However, if we are talking about just technical possibility of making money? Yeah, technically speaking it is definitely possible to do this and make profit, even get rich, the odds are very slim, but it's possible.

[bangjoe]

25x leverage is to much.

Anyone that use that amount to opened long position at a price around $119000 or at a higher price for bitcoin would have been liquidated.

I prefer to just go for 5x maximum which is better.

What I am surprised with are people trading with millions of dollars and still using leverage. If I am such people, I will not use leverage at all.

Leverage of 5x is a conservative measure to protect our capital in a volatile market, but in my opinion, 25x is not a problem as long as the margin settings are reduced and the liquid funds are 30x larger than the margin position when trading futures, as this prevents liquidation at prices that are too close, such as within the price fluctuation range of BTC $110k to $120k, in which case we would see a floating loss in our calculations.

[JeffBrad12]

Even 2x is too risky if you don't know how to properly take advantage of the leverage feature. Not to mention in 1x you have liquidation price whereas if you just buy spot you will safely keep your bitcoin even if the price dump and can just wait it out.
The only sure way for profit is spot in my opinion. Futures, etc are just for temporary profit gain. You can definitely make profit out of it and faster than spot, but the risk is as big. So, always make sure you're good at trading if you do leverage trades.

[Webetcoins]

Not many people that have a lot of money like million dollars want to go for spot trading and leave futures trading which is full of risks when compared to spot trading. Most of them go for highly risky trades to give them huge income immediately which they can’t wait patiently when it comes to spot trading. Spot trading gives bigger profit when you trade with large amount of money, but not many of them that have lots of money even look into that direction to earn cool money with less risk applied.

Yeah, you do not need millions, you need consistency and longevity.

If you put in just 50 dollars per month, every month and can do something as simple as 25% per year, which is very doable in bitcoin world, you will have 10+ million dollars. Yeap, not wrong, you will have 10+ million dollars in 40 years.

If you are 22-23 when you start working, and you retire at 62-63, which is a normal age, you would have something insanely good. So that means, all you need to do, is consistently and longevity when you are trading.

You do not need to get rich today right away with leverage, if you can that is great but most try and fail. Instead, just throw 50 bucks on the side each month, and try to trade carefully on spot and you will be fine.

[Akbarkoe]

Alot of liquidations have happened in the last 24 to 48 hours though to sharp drop in the price of Bitcoin and other coins, those trading futures markets I mean the one gambling with the price of cryptocurrency we all know is based on luck but yes it happened most times and frequently trading positions get liquidated.


But the one that caught my attention the most is when an exchange users wrote a poetic statement about the bad side of trading but ye, from the screenshot he shared he shown an x25 position which to me and every other crypto traders is never going to work.

X whatever can be beneficial depending on the momentum, some people take a position on what he does not know where the market will move where, making it a gambling without direction, up and down is not calculated correctly.

I did a long time last night before the announcement of Trump, and yes, the end could make a little profit with only a few dollars, but using a 50x leverage. But if it is called gambling, it is yes, because I see an anomal price movement after the announcement is conveyed, and finally boom.

[tvplus006]

If you put in just 50 dollars per month, every month and can do something as simple as 25% per year, which is very doable in bitcoin world, you will have 10+ million dollars. Yeap, not wrong, you will have 10+ million dollars in 40 years...

I have to correct you a bit, as the result will be exactly 2 times more than what you wrote - 20 million dollars. This is exactly the amount that will be obtained, taking into account the compound interest, for which a profit of 25% APY  will be accrued. But the problem is that there is no guaranteed percentage of 25% APY in the crypt, and you cannot rule out the possibility that you can lose all your money in one day.

[nelson4lov]

I've seen positions with leverages from 2x to 100xon winning trades so I know for a fact that winning trades with 25x is very possible. A few months ago, someone posted his year's-long swing/position trade where he started longing Bitcoin with a 100x leverage from around 16k price level. He has held it for over 3 years and it's still a BIG winning trade despite having a very high leverage.

It just depends on your entry and how well your psychology is to hold high leverage trades because most people can turn winning trades to losing one.

[Alone055]

Alot of liquidations have happened in the last 24 to 48 hours though to sharp drop in the price of Bitcoin and other coins, those trading futures markets I mean the one gambling with the price of cryptocurrency we all know is based on luck but yes it happened most times and frequently trading positions get liquidated.


But the one that caught my attention the most is when an exchange users wrote a poetic statement about the bad side of trading but ye, from the screenshot he shared he shown an x25 position which to me and every other crypto traders is never going to work.

You're wrong in saying that futures trading is based on luck and it's just like gambling, because that's not true; it only needs proper risk management. You can't blame the trading type only because people aren't able to manage their risks properly. Those who use large leverage without any idea what they are doing but only because they want to make more profit in a short period are basically gambling with their money, but this doesn't mean futures trading is like gambling. Futures trading is for experts, and newbies losing their money in it are the ones at fault.

I once read somewhere that a person lost above $1m in futures because he didn't place a stop-loss and when he woke up in the morning, the position was liquidated. The funny thing was that he had longed a meme coin, isn't that laughable? Now, this person lost his money because he was reckless and had no idea what he was doing, he only wanted to make as much money as possible, and he got served.

[Wind_FURY]

I'm genuinely asking this question, NOT trying to offend anyone.

- Are the people who are posting their insights in the topic about leverage, and "how/when/how large", have a winning track record in trading with a large sample size of more than five years?

Almost no one has a winning track record in trading for more than 5 years. If you use 25x leverage, the percentage is 0% in much less time.

 👍

That's one of the most honest posts that anyone has made in the forum sometimes, sometimes always, gives the impression that they're "winning/profitable traders", not mere plebs that many of us actually are in the community.


Stop that. Let's start being ourselves, and HODL.

[SmartGold01]

25x leverage is actually high for long position though this could depend their equity they used, at least those who has millions could open such positions but it wouldn't work for long position rather it could be more better for a short position considering the market situation currently. If going for long position such trader would get liquidated, so it would be better to use a lower maybe from 5x this could help them hold on for long if they aren't gotten liquidated.

[Wind_FURY]

25x leverage is actually high for long position though this could depend their equity they used, at least those who has millions could open such positions but it wouldn't work for long position rather it could be more better for a short position considering the market situation currently. If going for long position such trader would get liquidated, so it would be better to use a lower maybe from 5x this could help them hold on for long if they aren't gotten liquidated.

Actually, for day-traders that know what they're doing, 25x leverage could be "OK", and they probably could profit consistently in different market conditions. But that's for those traders who have the capital to fund their trades in case they're near the liquidation price, for those traders who have actual skills in trading, AND for those traders who have proven themselves over a large sample size.

But for plebs like us? Accumulate and HODL.

[Futurexxx]

those trading futures markets I mean the one gambling with the price of cryptocurrency we all know is based on luck but yes it happened most times and frequently trading positions get liquidated.

who and you?
Com'on man, trading is not about luck, you can never make money in trading base on luck, because if you knows nothing about it and you rely's luck, you can make $10k in a week and use just half and hour to lose everything.
Furthermore, you may still be making terrible and suicidal decisions while trading, which might compel you to lose even more, but someone that knows the craft wouldn't treat trading as gambling that has nothing to do with analysis, but more of luck

But the one that caught my attention the most is when an exchange users wrote a poetic statement about the bad side of trading but ye, from the screenshot he shared he shown an x25 position which to me and every other crypto traders is never going to work.

The 25x leverage is one big sign that the said fellow is treating trading as gambling, thinking that luck will shine on him, without knowing that things doesn't works that way in trading, the higher the leverage the more you expose yourself to liquidation.

[Mrbluntzy]

But the one that caught my attention the most is when an exchange users wrote a poetic statement about the bad side of trading but ye, from the screenshot he shared he shown an x25 position which to me and every other crypto traders is never going to work.

Do you mean entering/opening different trades up to 25 different positions or you are talking about the 25x leverage?  If a trader takes 25 different trade position at once, it is risky and if the person still apply 25x leverage for their trading pairs, it's also very risky. There's no professional traders that will open 25 different position at once and for the professional traders that deals with big capital, they don't also apply 25x leverage because when they face lose, it will take a great amount of their capital, so they play safe with 10x and below.

[Wind_FURY]

 those trading futures markets I mean the one gambling with the price of cryptocurrency we all know is based on luck but yes it happened most times and frequently trading positions get liquidated.

who and you?

Com'on man, trading is not about luck, you can never make money in trading base on luck, because if you knows nothing about it and you rely's luck, you can make $10k in a week and use just half and hour to lose everything.
Furthermore, you may still be making terrible and suicidal decisions while trading, which might compel you to lose even more, but someone that knows the craft wouldn't treat trading as gambling that has nothing to do with analysis, but more of luck

You're right, but put a good context behind your post, because for the top traders/swing-traders/day-traders, OK, it's not mere luck - It's their experience, it's the fact that their more well-capitalized, and they simply are smarter than the majority of people who "trade". BUT for plebs like us, it's luck because we are ALWAYS outmatched in the market.

But there's a simple strategy that could bring some advantage back to plebs like us. Don't play their game, just HODL.

[Powerjumboo]

Alot of liquidations have happened in the last 24 to 48 hours though to sharp drop in the price of Bitcoin and other coins, those trading futures markets I mean the one gambling with the price of cryptocurrency we all know is based on luck but yes it happened most times and frequently trading positions get liquidated.

But the one that caught my attention the most is when an exchange users wrote a poetic statement about the bad side of trading but ye, from the screenshot he shared he shown an x25 position which to me and every other crypto traders is never going to work.

I think futures trading is very risky, yet here it is mentioned 25x leverage which makes it very risky because 25x leverage is very high where high risk is involved. I have never participated in futures trading because I think futures trading is very risky which is why I chose spot trading to start trading. If I can gain good skills in spot trading, then I can decide to do futures trading later. If I decide, I will definitely use 1% to maximum 5% leverage. I will never use more leverage because I never want to put my money at risk or at maximum risk.

[Ojima-ojo]

Alot of liquidations have happened in the last 24 to 48 hours though to sharp drop in the price of Bitcoin and other coins, those trading futures markets I mean the one gambling with the price of cryptocurrency we all know is based on luck but yes it happened most times and frequently trading positions get liquidated.

But the one that caught my attention the most is when an exchange users wrote a poetic statement about the bad side of trading but ye, from the screenshot he shared he shown an x25 position which to me and every other crypto traders is never going to work.

I think futures trading is very risky, yet here it is mentioned 25x leverage which makes it very risky because 25x leverage is very high where high risk is involved. I have never participated in futures trading because I think futures trading is very risky which is why I chose spot trading to start trading. If I can gain good skills in spot trading, then I can decide to do futures trading later. If I decide, I will definitely use 1% to maximum 5% leverage. I will never use more leverage because I never want to put my money at risk or at maximum risk.

I agreed with you that that leverage of 25x is somewhat risky but then at that time I made a lot of profits I opened the position with $50 and when the market shifted in the market favor I was able to make around $12 profits which I close the position immediately to take profits in other not to lose that along the way.


Between we have to take risks sometimes in other to keep control of our profits merging when that comes around.