Political aspects of cryptocurrencies

[Scarabus]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets. So, since the bitcoins are a way of keeping the savings, they can fight inequality to some aspect.
However, I am sure that only switching from inflational economics model to deflational one can't change the things significantly. The main reason of the disappearance of the middle class is political: the wealthy 1% of the population are the ruling class, and they pass laws for making them more and more rich, for example under Reagan the taxes for wealthy were cut. They also control the mass media like CNN or Fox News, and these mass media lie about the problem of the disappearance of the middle class.
But I think that the rise of cryptocurrencies will be an important first step towards a revolution in the Western world against the Deep State. I found that many people in the Western world, especially in Europe, are brainwashed - they often simply deny that the inflation is a hidden taxation. So when the bitcoin will cost 1m, these lies of the ruling class will be destroyed, the people will start thinking. That's why buying bitcoins now is an investment into future revolution of the Western people against the Deep State, so I think that in nearest years the bitcoins will grow very rapidly.

[xandry]

One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets.

Isn't the reason that rich people invest in various assets simply because they have enough money for their daily lives and can afford other ways of investing? 
Give a poor person bitcoins or other assets, and the first thing he will do with them is sell them. And I don't think we need to condemn him for this, because firstly we need to ensure that basic needs are met, and then we need to think about investments. Moreover, Nvidia shares or cryptocurrency cannot be used to pay for utilities, for example.

[The Cryptovator]

I want to second what was said by Xandry. Whether rich or poor, smart people convert their funds into assets. You are talking about only rich, but I am talking about smart. I wasn't very rich; you can say I was a middle-class citizen who worked abroad once a day. Once I was introduced to the crypto world, I found the way to earn extra money. And learn to increase my portfolio from trading and holding. So I am not very rich, but I have enough now for whatever I really need. I built my own home, and the money was converted to crypto assets. Means my portfolio is still increasing.

So even if you are poor, you can still try smartly. I know it's hard to invest in Bitcoin for poor people, but it doesn't prevent you from earning. Being poor doesn't prevent you from developing your skill and selling your skill. If you don't want to die as a poor person, then work hard. Don't depend on a single income source. Don't blame politicians; you can't change anything. Rather develop yourself and convert money to crypto to hold it longer.

[Jawhead999]

The poor who invest in Bitcoin are still not enough to get rich, their economy would improve, but they will step up to middle class. Then back to your first sentence, middle class will disappear, so they ended up become poor again because they not own the business nor system.

Getting rich is very hard, what we see on social medias are mostly upper middle class who could back to poor if they make mistake in financial decision.

[Alone055]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets. So, since the bitcoins are a way of keeping the savings, they can fight inequality to some aspect.
However, I am sure that only switching from inflational economics model to deflational one can't change the things significantly. The main reason of the disappearance of the middle class is political: the wealthy 1% of the population are the ruling class, and they pass laws for making them more and more rich, for example under Reagan the taxes for wealthy were cut. They also control the mass media like CNN or Fox News, and these mass media lie about the problem of the disappearance of the middle class.
But I think that the rise of cryptocurrencies will be an important first step towards a revolution in the Western world against the Deep State. I found that many people in the Western world, especially in Europe, are brainwashed - they often simply deny that the inflation is a hidden taxation. So when the bitcoin will cost 1m, these lies of the ruling class will be destroyed, the people will start thinking. That's why buying bitcoins now is an investment into future revolution of the Western people against the Deep State, so I think that in nearest years the bitcoins will grow very rapidly.

Why do you say that the middle class disappears? They don't disappear; they become poor and then go into the poor category because they can't keep up with their current class due to high inflation and low wages. Also, maybe you are not aware of it, but even Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are regulated and taxed in countries where they are legalized and bills are passed for them to be used by the general public, but they will be regulated, and people will be taxed based on their assets. Even though there can be ways to stay anonymous, but most people won't do it because they don't know, they will use centralized platforms with their personal identities and then pay taxes for even owning cryptocurrencies.

The theory about the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is basically something that I don't condemn because growing up, I learned that it's not the fault of the wealthy that they are able to make more money because they are capable of it, they have money, and money can help you make more money. If I'm poor, and I can't make my financial life better for any reason, it's my fault, and the fault of my ancestors because they didn't work hard enough to take us out of this condition, and it could partly be the fault of the government for not providing us with proper education without costs so that we could at least do something for ourselves when we grow up.

[Marvelockg]

Why do you say that the middle class disappears? They don't disappear; they become poor and then go into the poor category because they can't keep up with their current class due to high inflation and low wages. Also, maybe you are not aware of it, but even Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are regulated and taxed in countries where they are legalized and bills are passed for them to be used by the general public, but they will be regulated, and people will be taxed based on their assets.

In the real world context, the poor have an high likelihood of becoming poorer but the middle class have every tendency of becoming rich if the effectively utilize the little they have. both the rich, the poor and the average individual get taxed but in the real sense, the rich even get to pay the highest amount in the for of tax. the only way most poor people get to pay their tax is usually in the form of VAT and nothing is usually deducted in form of income tax.

The rich has his worth visible to the public and hence, all tax laws can be implemented on him. the average guy can smartly play games around and grow his finance via small scale investment that are not al that visible which in most cases is not taxed. the major leverage that the rich have above the middle class is that with more resource, it becomes easy for them to invest not just into bitcoin but also into other profitable asset.

[Ruttoshi]

The poor who invest in Bitcoin are still not enough to get rich, their economy would improve, but they will step up to middle class. Then back to your first sentence, middle class will disappear, so they ended up become poor again because they not own the business nor system.

Getting rich is very hard, what we see on social medias are mostly upper middle class who could back to poor if they make mistake in financial decision.

Of course, since the poor doesn't have any money or asset to fall back on if he invest and make mistakes that leads to his losing his bitcoin, he needs to invest within his own capacity and should not overdo it. If a poor man is determined to buy bitcoin regularly through his discretionary income, he can pile up wealth for himself in future because value of bitcoin increases overtime.

The worst risk for a poor man is not looking for a means to invest in bitcoin to upgrade his financial well being. He will have fun staying poor. I have seen several poor young men who worked hard and made money for themselves. Only the lazy poor people will give up on their poor state because they feel that only the government can change their situation.

[Fortify]

You seem confused a couple sentences in.. Bitcoin can considered savings and assets, unless you're using some other definition of assets than most people when it comes to financial planning. I'm not sure the "rise of cryptocurrency" is going to do much, because it's simply another commodity that rich people can buy lots more of than the average person and eventually monopolize. It can help in some tiny, almost insignificant, ways like allowing people without access to a bank account the ability to hold funds and also avoid lots of the charges that the banks of some countries impose. It also allows people to get around despotic or authoritarian controls as long as they have access to the internet. Not sure that the Western world is the problem here, conspiracy theories are just stories told by those same mass media owning billionaires that you've apparently fallen for.

[moneystery]

...

So even if you are poor, you can still try smartly. I know it's hard to invest in Bitcoin for poor people, but it doesn't prevent you from earning. Being poor doesn't prevent you from developing your skill and selling your skill. If you don't want to die as a poor person, then work hard. Don't depend on a single income source. Don't blame politicians; you can't change anything. Rather develop yourself and convert money to crypto to hold it longer.

Being poor and being smart are two different things. Poor people will constantly complain about their circumstances and blame others for their situation without truly seeking solutions, while smart people will try to seize every opportunity to overcome their difficulties.
If they were smarter, they would continue to develop their potential and skills, rather than wasting energy complaining. Slowly but surely, they would continue to allocate a small portion of their income to build their wealth in Bitcoin. It's not easy, but if they are consistent over the long term, it will form an investment portfolio that could potentially improve their situation.

[Dunamisx]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets. So, since the bitcoins are a way of keeping the savings, they can fight inequality to some aspect.

I like the way bitcoin has been creating the equality it required for the people to maintain the kind of balance in the financial economy, because things have always been in the favour of the rich and for the poor to penetrate in their circles becomes a serious challenge, while with the use of bitcoin, we all have equal right and no one is left out to follow the normal procedures, tax payment also have been a broad aspect of discussion and we may not be able to finish it if we are to start from the way of how its effects has been on the masses together with the policies the government have set in place that makes inflation the order of the day.

[xandry]

Being poor and being smart are two different things. Poor people will constantly complain about their circumstances and blame others for their situation without truly seeking solutions, while smart people will try to seize every opportunity to overcome their difficulties.

Unfortunately, at least partially, but it's true. I think of the movie "idiocracy", does anyone remember this?
There, at the beginning of the film, they show how people with high education and good income carefully plan to conceive one child, while "others" acquire three or four children during this time.
At this point, just compare the birth rate in high-income countries and in poor countries. That's the way it is.

[xiamin]

I agree with the statement that rich people accumulate money into assets. That is why they become richer but poor people have to work hard to earn enough money to meet their basic needs. They have a very small amount of money left over from what they earn which is not worth investing. Some of those poor people are accumulation cryptocurrency to build a house or to improve their financial situation in the future. They are buying potential cryptocurrency so that they can reach their goal even if it is too late. I am an example of this.

[Emjay24]

Being poor doesn't prevent you from developing your skill and selling your skill. If you don't want to die as a poor person, then work hard. Don't depend on a single income source. Don't blame politicians; you can't change anything. Rather develop yourself and convert money to crypto to hold it longer.

This is where I really want to come in. being poor is not the problem but staying poor out of ignorance or lack of desire and action to get yourself out of poverty. The solution is not to keep complaining and do nothing, complaining solves no problem, rather it creates more. So get down to work and improve your finances and take advantage of smart opportunities in bitcoin and your career, even though you wanted to change the world and how it functions, surely you cannot do it as a poor man, you must be a man of affluence before your voice can even be heard.

[Joy_learns_crypto]

One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets.

Isn't the reason that rich people invest in various assets simply because they have enough money for their daily lives and can afford other ways of investing? 
Give a poor person bitcoins or other assets, and the first thing he will do with them is sell them. And I don't think we need to condemn him for this, because firstly we need to ensure that basic needs are met, and then we need to think about investments. Moreover, Nvidia shares or cryptocurrency cannot be used to pay for utilities, for example.

I concede to your statement, but there are poor people who can manage funds and if giving bitcoin can find a way to have some still invested in bitcoin and maybe other into providing income for their basic needs.
But those who have suitable standard of living have more liberty to long term investment and shares holding than someone living below the basic necessity.

[iBaba]

One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets.

Isn't the reason that rich people invest in various assets simply because they have enough money for their daily lives and can afford other ways of investing? 
Give a poor person bitcoins or other assets, and the first thing he will do with them is sell them. And I don't think we need to condemn him for this, because firstly we need to ensure that basic needs are met, and then we need to think about investments. Moreover, Nvidia shares or cryptocurrency cannot be used to pay for utilities, for example.

You are actually just saying it the way it needs to be said. People always put a blame at the poor man for not making investment opportunities but in real time, the poor man cannot really afford to do even what some of us here would regard as the barest minimum. When sometimes we talk about investing in DCA, even when the DCA is designed for the average people who wish to invest in bitcoin, it is still not everyone that can afford to DCA because it still requires some funds to do so. Some people say bitcoin investment is for everyone but I deeply disagree with that because is actually not for everyone but people who could afford the little spare money to invest and not for those who live from hand to mouth.

[d5000]

In the world, the wealthy become wealthier, the poor become poorer, the middle class disappears. One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets. So, since the bitcoins are a way of keeping the savings, they can fight inequality to some aspect.

A little note: the decrease of the size of the middle class is not happening in the whole world. In China and India and some parts of Africa the middle classes are growing, probably by much more (in terms of population) than they are weakening in Europe and the US.

Anyway I agree with your general sentiment here: the "inflation tax" indeed benefits the richest 5% much more than the rest of the population because it fuels the value of their assets. (In some cases however, real estate is also appreciating, which is often owned by middle class people, but that's probably a small effect.)

And I also agree that early Bitcoin adopters in some cases have taken their chance to become a new part of the 5% richest, so there are at least some new groups in the elite.

Now: will Bitcoin profits really trickle down into the poorer classes, apart from those who were already "smart" and have already invested? I think this is a tricky question to answer.

First, the biggest Bitcoin gains were already made, even if Bitcoin reaches the million USD, it is a 900% increase, and we had already much steeper increases before (100k+% in a few years, e.g. 2012-2017). 900% is approximately the growth since the 2022 low, at least in the same order of magnitude. I also expect that the step from 100k to 1M will take at least a decade. Volatility is decreasing, and the bull markets are weaker every cycle.

Second: the masses of the poor will be probably (in a general sense, "some smart poor people" already invested of course) the last group to be able to invest in crypto because they don't have too much spare money for that purpose. So they would perhaps invest when Bitcoin is already at 800k, and have only 25% profit until the million.

And third: it is possible that an "unproductive" asset like Bitcoin could damage the profits of productive assets like stocks if the market overheats too much and everybody is trying to get Bitcoin. I think the probability is low for that (due to the reasons I already mentioned, in particular the lowering volatility) but it is not impossible. This could lead into businesses get bankrupt and rising unemployment.

IMO thus, regarding poverty reduction, I would expect much more from the "inflation reducing" qualities of Bitcoin than of an extreme bull market taking us to 1M.

[slapper]

Inflation is also a political instrument. Governments like it more than direct taxation since it distributes pain invisibly, and people find it difficult to organize opposition. And when you tie that to your argument about media capture, it becomes even more apparent: it is not only that the ruling class writes the laws, they write the story that explains to you that those laws are inevitable

Yet, we should not be too confident with Bitcoin. Surely it secures savings more than fiat, but inequality is not merely the matter of savings. It is about access. When 70% of the population lives paycheck to paycheck, they have nothing to save in Bitcoin either. Yes, Bitcoin can be a lifeboat to those who can get into it, but a lifeboat to 5% does not solve systemic inequality, it merely shifts to which minority can avoid the fire

[Iroh]

I concede to your statement, but there are poor people who can manage funds and if giving bitcoin can find a way to have some still invested in bitcoin and maybe other into providing income for their basic needs.
But those who have suitable standard of living have more liberty to long term investment and shares holding than someone living below the basic necessity.

I would disagree. You said it yourself, those who are financially secured and has the luxury of having a more better standard of living along with an above average income have the choice to easily acquire and hold bitcoin for the long run. On the other hand, people who are living hand to mouth can barely afford to have enough to cover their needs(not wants). How then would you expect such individual to hold bitcoin for the long run even if given freely? No matter how good they supposedly are at managing funds, holding onto bitcoin while having lots of expenses that needs to be settled would be difficult, if not somewhat impossible.

[Jubilee58]

One of the reasons of this is the inflation: it is a kind of regressive tax, this tax is paid mostly by the poor because they loose their savings, while the wealthy keep their savings not in money but in assets.

Isn't the reason that rich people invest in various assets simply because they have enough money for their daily lives and can afford other ways of investing? 
Give a poor person bitcoins or other assets, and the first thing he will do with them is sell them. And I don't think we need to condemn him for this, because firstly we need to ensure that basic needs are met, and then we need to think about investments. Moreover, Nvidia shares or cryptocurrency cannot be used to pay for utilities, for example.

You are right in your statement sir, imagine when someone cannot take care of his or her own responsibility enough, how can such a person be able to invest his or her own money somewhere. I have seen a situation where somebody sold his own property just to take care of household issues.But if someone is able to Carter for his basic needs, such a person can be able to spare some money for investment.
Then , for those who have spare money to invest, endeavour to invest in bitcoin ,more especially for a long time.Bitcoin is a digital asset that can not be underated, is something that anybody can invest to change his financial story.
It is true that most times, the leaders make policies that favours them mostly, but we can not depend on them all the time. As individuals we have to do our best to help ourselves, because looking at our leaders and politicians will cut off our expectations. So let us endeavor to do the best we can to invest and surely our financial goals will be reached.

[xandry]

Anyway I agree with your general sentiment here: the "inflation tax" indeed benefits the richest 5% much more than the rest of the population because it fuels the value of their assets. (In some cases however, real estate is also appreciating, which is often owned by middle class people, but that's probably a small effect.)

And I also agree that early Bitcoin adopters in some cases have taken their chance to become a new part of the 5% richest, so there are at least some new groups in the elite.

And therefore, there is a well-founded opinion that another part of the early Bitcoin adopters belonged to those 5% even before the existence of bitcoin.
The reason for this is that these people had enough money to avoid selling an asset that is constantly growing for a dozen years. Think about it, they didn't sell bitcoin even when its value was falling.
An ordinary person would hardly be able to stand it.