Acquiring Bitcoin in crypto unfriendly countries.

[Jet Cash]

I'm in the UK, and our current government is intent on sucking money out of any savings or assets that we own. They are starting to impose Draconian measures to control any financial transactions or holdings. I believe that this could lead to an increase in the use of P2P transactions that are kept away from exchanges and government control. Do you believe that this will lead to an increase in transactions between members of fora such as Bitcoin Talk, or will such transactions be a rich grazing ground for government investigations?

[_act_]

What I noticed before and still till now is that USD, EUR and GBP are the commonest currencies on decentralized exchange for buying and selling ads there.

The government will be investigating but those that will be known are the people that are having huge numbers of transactions and also transacting huge amount of money. I do not fall into that category.

[Apocollapse]

I don't think that's the definition of unfriendly country.

Unfriendly country at least they make people can't really free to use Bitcoin e.g. banks not want to accept funds which have relation with Bitcoin. The worst is a complete ban, where the citizen can't even allowed to buy and hold Bitcoin.

If the government are strict about taxes, P2P won't enough to solve the problem because you still receive the money through banks. Exchange to cash is risky though, criminals can threaten by pointing their gun on our head.

[_act_]

I don't think that's the definition of unfriendly country.

Unfriendly country at least they make people can't really free to use Bitcoin e.g. banks not want to accept funds which have relation with Bitcoin. The worst is a complete ban, where the citizen can't even allowed to buy and hold Bitcoin.

If the government are strict about taxes, P2P won't enough to solve the problem because you still receive the money through banks. Exchange to cash is risky though, criminals can threaten by pointing their gun on our head.

You are right but your post add zero meaning to this discussion. He is not asking what unfriendly country is but asking if the tax and draconian approach of the government can lead to people using P2P that are not centralized. The thread is not about a debate of what that should be called unfriendly or friendly.

[PrivacyG]

Unfortunately it would be good if ONLY the UK had such intentions.  It is more than evident that about all countries of the world are making the same move.  We are quickly steering toward a highly dystopian world and it is scary.  But, we have to move on and adapt I presume.

In my sole opinion and perspective, Peer to Peer transactions will definitely increase significantly but with a risk.  I do believe the governments will have strict regulations prohibiting Peer to Peer transactions, they will most likely fall within the 'Money Laundering' type of transactions.  In the near future, it does look like they are going to make things as controllable as possible and any thing that sticks out will be an immediate red flag.

They are trying to take control over your photos, your internet access, your conversations, your internet searches, your preferred food and entertainment, your spendings and earnings et cetera.  You get targeted ads based on words you physically say around your microphones, you are told what to think, what to believe, what to fight for and why.  A significant part of the population already has loyalty cards for shopping, credit cards that they use for most of their spendings et cetera.  They are already controlling the most of their lives, there are only few steps now until complete control.  And any of us who try to run away from it all are likely going to stick out like sore thumbs.

The government is trying to be the third wheel in all aspects of your life and it is creepy as hell.  Just like End to End encryption, they are trying to forcefully enter as the third end of it.

Truly pseudonymous Bitcoin transactions will in my opinion move into the underground.  It will be the currency of the rebels and it will be right next to barter.  And yes, the governments will DEFINITELY crack down on all of the rebels when ever they get an opportunity.  So much control and yet I have seen no positive change in the crime rates any where in the world.  In fact, it does seem like the crime rate worsens instead.  Which directly contradicts the motives they are using to control us.

The question is will there be an escape?  If they are aggressively cracking down on every private aspect of the internet and are trying to ban VPNs and biometrically control who enters the internet and what for, does this mean that within the next few years we will only gain access to the internet if we biometrically identify ourselves?  If so, the idea of using Bitcoin as an escape is either going to be gone for good or there will be a separate internet infrastructure built by us rebels for ourselves.  Because if VPNs are banned then Tor will likely be seen just as bad, and if your internet history is watched 24 out of 7 by them 'and you have no intention to hide anything bad' then why would you use Tor?  Are you trying to evade the government?  Do you not care about the children?

In fact, I believe the European Union is going to ban anonymous transactions and wallets next year.  Things look bad even in countries like Switzerland.  Soon, it honestly looks like countries such as North Korea and China may provide more freedom than the 'free' countries will.

[dkbit98]

I'm in the UK, and our current government is intent on sucking money out of any savings or assets that we own. They are starting to impose Draconian measures to control any financial transactions or holdings. I believe that this could lead to an increase in the use of P2P transactions that are kept away from exchanges and government control. Do you believe that this will lead to an increase in transactions between members of fora such as Bitcoin Talk, or will such transactions be a rich grazing ground for government investigations?

Governments around the world are already working hard with banks to crack down on ALL bitcoion transactions, and people are simply ignoring this.
Exchanges first started with stupidity of ranking and blacklisting Bitcoin according to connection with gov blacklisted addresses, and now we have Bank for International Settlements proposing grading all bitcoin wallets for blockchain AML!
If this gets accepted, and I don't see much push back from bitcoin community, you are going to see worse things happening in future.
P2P transaction could increase but you won't be able to spend those coins anywhere.


https://www.bis.org/publ/bisbull111.htm
https://www.bis.org/publ/bisbull111.pdf

[ABCbits]

I'm in the UK, and our current government is intent on sucking money out of any savings or assets that we own. They are starting to impose Draconian measures to control any financial transactions or holdings.

Not all of us familar with UK condition, so it would be great if you tell us what government action that you consider people's saving asset. From quick search, i only found out that Bank of England cut interest rate to 4%.

[Apocollapse]

If the government are strict about taxes, P2P won't enough to solve the problem because you still receive the money through banks. Exchange to cash is risky though, criminals can threaten by pointing their gun on our head.

You are right but your post add zero meaning to this discussion. He is not asking what unfriendly country is but asking if the tax and draconian approach of the government can lead to people using P2P that are not centralized. The thread is not about a debate of what that should be called unfriendly or friendly.

I already answer the question.

P2P, even you doing that without KYC, could arise banks suspicion to investigate your incoming funds. The worst thing to happen is they freeze the account and ask the source of every incoming transactions. You have to prepare to answer that, even you answer it's a gift from friends, there's a gift tax, except you sent up to £3,000/annual.

That's why I said the best decision is exchange to cash, it's not recorded in banking ledger.

[fikrett]

If the government are strict about taxes, P2P won't enough to solve the problem because you still receive the money through banks. Exchange to cash is risky though, criminals can threaten by pointing their gun on our head.

You are right but your post add zero meaning to this discussion. He is not asking what unfriendly country is but asking if the tax and draconian approach of the government can lead to people using P2P that are not centralized. The thread is not about a debate of what that should be called unfriendly or friendly.

I already answer the question.

P2P, even you doing that without KYC, could arise banks suspicion to investigate your incoming funds. The worst thing to happen is they freeze the account and ask the source of every incoming transactions. You have to prepare to answer that, even you answer it's a gift from friends, there's a gift tax, except you sent up to £3,000/annual.

That's why I said the best decision is exchange to cash, it's not recorded in banking ledger.

There would be a need for a trusted vendor, in that case, and to find such a person is no easy task..

[348Judah]

I'm in the UK, and our current government is intent on sucking money out of any savings or assets that we own. They are starting to impose Draconian measures to control any financial transactions or holdings. I believe that this could lead to an increase in the use of P2P transactions that are kept away from exchanges and government control. Do you believe that this will lead to an increase in transactions between members of fora such as Bitcoin Talk, or will such transactions be a rich grazing ground for government investigations?

Of course when the government regulations are becoming unbearable for the people to use, they have no alternative than to embrace the common use of Bitcoin for p2p that will be free from government intervention and taxation regulations, of course when there's an increasing rate of Bitcoin adoption, the transaction rate will also increase, as more people are being engaged with the using Bitcoin unlike before, we only need more time for others to realize on this and completely depend on a decentralized economy and bitcoin for p2p.

[melinoe]

Of course when the government regulations are becoming unbearable for the people to use, they have no alternative than to embrace the common use of Bitcoin for p2p that will be free from government intervention and taxation regulations, of course when there's an increasing rate of Bitcoin adoption, the transaction rate will also increase, as more people are being engaged with the using Bitcoin unlike before, we only need more time for others to realize on this and completely depend on a decentralized economy and bitcoin for p2p.

I hope for all the countries to embrace BTC and crypto in general eventually, one way or another.

Because everybody can have something from it: both the retailers and the suits, if done correctly.

[Cookdata]

If the government are strict about taxes, P2P won't enough to solve the problem because you still receive the money through banks. Exchange to cash is risky though, criminals can threaten by pointing their gun on our head.

You are right but your post add zero meaning to this discussion. He is not asking what unfriendly country is but asking if the tax and draconian approach of the government can lead to people using P2P that are not centralized. The thread is not about a debate of what that should be called unfriendly or friendly.

I already answer the question.

P2P, even you doing that without KYC, could arise banks suspicion to investigate your incoming funds. The worst thing to happen is they freeze the account and ask the source of every incoming transactions. You have to prepare to answer that, even you answer it's a gift from friends, there's a gift tax, except you sent up to £3,000/annual.

That's why I said the best decision is exchange to cash, it's not recorded in banking ledger.

I don't really see any fuss here, you both have a point though. However, let's address this regulations the government is trying so hard to enforce on people. Government first priority is to make sure that any form of investment is safe for everyone (that is they handle it properly without nepotism and favoritism),  this is their job to do but over time, self interest is what government does most of the time. Regulating Bitcoin will only do more harms than what they are trying to protect, this is why many people are running away from stable coins such as Tether and cycle, they are both control by the government.

The UK government is just trying to be sassy, there is nothing to fix with this regulation, just looking for a way to cap its people, make people bow to their need, I believe even US and their SEC over the years has done something similar and anytime they go court with some cases, they are thrown out, you can't kill what's not your problem.

If Bitcoin isn't ban, I don't think banks will have any problem with that and can't freeze your account, they don't have the right to do so unless there is an authorization from government or someone above. It will be completely safe to use your bank details to receive money when you conduct transaction on P2P if centralized exchanges are not allow, but for safety you don't have to put Bitcoin or anything related in your transaction reference or description. Main problem now is Bitcoin in the UK isn't clear about been either a commodity or other categor of assets, so I don't think tax can be discussed until there is a head up.


On the hand, if Bitcoin becomes illegal and banned, then there is absolutely nothing you can do unless you go physical which can be very risky. You can get rob in process or even arrested.

[Hazink]

If the government are strict about taxes, P2P won't enough to solve the problem because you still receive the money through banks. Exchange to cash is risky though, criminals can threaten by pointing their gun on our head.

We have F2F kind of P2P trade which I consider the worst as the risk attached to it is more dangerous than the government coming for you just like you have mentioned at gunpoint. If someone can get a good vendor from one of the P2P platforms that don’t deal with KYC, that will be the best, but to trade a large sum will be a great challenge unless you have to be selling bit by bit. Once the government wants to come after holders, trading it anonymously becomes a big challenge; either you stress yourself to make it happen or you give in and remit their blood-sucking tax to them.

[jcojci]

Maybe they are suspicious about the use of the transaction for an illegal purpose. You don't know what their real reason is for doing that because they will not tell the details to the public. But if your government is trying to sucking money out of their savings or people's own assets, that can make P2P transactions increase without the banks interference. If this situation continues, they will not save their money in the banks and this could attract crypto adoption to become bigger because they can save their money in crypto and send it to a private wallet.

[peter0425]

I'm in the UK, and our current government is intent on sucking money out of any savings or assets that we own. They are starting to impose Draconian measures to control any financial transactions or holdings. I believe that this could lead to an increase in the use of P2P transactions that are kept away from exchanges and government control. Do you believe that this will lead to an increase in transactions between members of fora such as Bitcoin Talk, or will such transactions be a rich grazing ground for government investigations?

UK citizens might be a little extra careful now if UK continues to rain on bitcoin or crypto's parade. Instead of completely stopping crypto usage in the region, they will just encourage secrecy and anonymity within the industry. There are a lot of ways to hide our identities and our transactions especially from the government so I do not know how they will crack these investigations and how severe the consequences will be. Either way if you are from UK make sure that you are well aware of the laws as to not get into trouble.

[hero_the_bossman]

Maybe they are suspicious about the use of the transaction for an illegal purpose. You don't know what their real reason is for doing that because they will not tell the details to the public. But if your government is trying to sucking money out of their savings or people's own assets, that can make P2P transactions increase without the banks interference. If this situation continues, they will not save their money in the banks and this could attract crypto adoption to become bigger because they can save their money in crypto and send it to a private wallet.

Custody, and everybody's ability to be their own biggest guardian, becomes more and more relevant.

Control, one way or another, is the one thing centralized entities want, and they will go out of their way to achieve it 

[uneng]

P2P communities are too few and have a low number of participants, being quite hard to negotiate when you need, and with the amounts of money you have to. Maybe if the situation in your country becomes too chaotic and abusive due to the government's measures, a considerable portion of society starts dealing with BTC in a daily basis. The tendency is that they organize themselves through social media groups.

Where I live the most popular one is Whatsapp, so it's likely people would schedule the negotiations through that app, instead of Bitcointalk forum or any other virtual platform which is more limited and exclusive to a minor niche of the market.

[Free Market Capitalist]

I don't think there will be a significant increase in P2P, perhaps residually, but most people are not going to buy bitcoin outside of established channels. There will be many more people buying spot ETFs and the like. I'm not saying I like this scenario; ideally, many more people would be more aware.

Unfortunately it would be good if ONLY the UK had such intentions.  It is more than evident that about all countries of the world are making the same move.  

No, it's not so obvious because it's (partly) false. The US was on this path until Trump won. Argentina is not following that path either.

The UK and the EU are going to go full blown totalitarianism but let's see if we can realize that there are alternatives to that dystopian 1984-style garbage, no matter how much we may dislike the leaders who implement policies that differ from this madness.

[Ambatman]

Sorry for that. I always feel bad about people living in the UK with the government getting tighter on limiting privacy right.

Do you believe that this will lead to an increase in transactions between members of fora such as Bitcoin Talk

It would remain under the radar except that you want to convert back to Fiat and it changes nothing.
Transaction volume draws their interest, so I doubt they would come playing detective here.

If this gets accepted, and I don't see much push back from bitcoin community, you are going to see worse things happening in future.

They are doing it subtle while showcasing carrots and Bitcoin like the Bunny.

[betswift]

Control is the one thing they want, and it will become worse and worse, be it UK or any other place, somewhere, lighter, somewhere - heavier.

We will see which of the bunch will be the biggest "jandarm" of them all.