Collusion in poker games

[Toro iskandar]

From playing poker several times and participating in various poker tournaments in different places, I often think about the possibility of players working together to cheat one player. In other words, collusion, which is unethical and should not be done.

Perhaps for most gamblers here, collusion in poker is nothing new. But I'm curious and would like to know do certain poker sites have sophisticated tools to detect and prevent this kind of cheating?

What should be done to ensure the game remains fair and based on fair play?

https://www.pokernews.com/pokerterms/collusion.htm

[crwth]

Well, in terms of online, I think it is hard to do unless you are on a Discord call or something. I'm not much of a poker player, but what is the benefit of having collusion? Most likely, it is to gang up on one player? I mean, that's just really unfair.

I don't think any technology right now is capable of detecting that because there are different connections to a game, maybe just randomized to joining of games or something.

[AbuBhakar]

This is not new and every poker site has a counter for potential collusion since it can be spotted by checking the similarities of players playing on the same table frequently with shady showdown on the table.

Now that casino can detect similar IP and login activities of account. They can spot which is which account connected to each other by playing same behavior on the same table.

[danherbias07]

Well, in terms of online, I think it is hard to do unless you are on a Discord call or something. I'm not much of a poker player, but what is the benefit of having collusion? Most likely, it is to gang up on one player? I mean, that's just really unfair.

I don't think any technology right now is capable of detecting that because there are different connections to a game, maybe just randomized to joining of games or something.

Even in a Discord call or a Video group, it can still be done. All they need is another messaging app to do the trick.

Truly, this is unethical, and all we can do is make sure that every player doesn't know each other. It's tough to do that, especially if these people are targeting players and would just fake their connection to each other.
Well, if we are doubting, it's best if we just go to a physical poker room and play there. Face-to-face, they won't be able to do that without someone noticing it.

[Hispo]

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✂️

I believe it can be easily controled by casinos of they set their matching systems so people from similar IPs cannot end up in the same table. It would be similar to systems which are used by cooperative games on the internet to prevent players from the same IP address from colluding against other participants.
If the people who intend to collude cannot play by the same table or are never matched together to play against others, then becomes impossible for them to do unethical practices for the sake of profit.

It would also require casinos not to allow their poker players to make use of VPNs to mask their IP address.

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

Player to player or player and then the casinos?

I have heard of collusion before in 2020 about a casino, I can't remember it though. But the setup is that the casino will have bots and will sit down on the table without the real player knowing that he is going up against the casinos in that table.

But in today's playing ground, it's really hard to identify though, maybe you have that gut feeling but it's really hard to proved it.

[bitbollo]

It's really hard to see real actions against players that made collusion to other players. First of all need to be caught, I havent see as "often" this happens.
Lately they need to provide proofs of wrong doing. People that commit such actions are doing "very well" and not just like newbies trying to stole some candies...
Much more different if you try to scam the house. They have enough rules , terms and legal instruments that can stop any wrong doing immediately (or ust avoid to cash out )

[aoluain]

I could imagine it happening but I also think it would be really complicated to implement
"without making it obvious".

In a live physical casino obviously there is no communication between players so all you have if
you were to collude with another is mannerisms and facial/hand signals.

Online would be easier, I'm not sure the game play would have to be the same as each other to
make it work, it would all depend on each others hand of cards.

Its indeed not fair but I'm sure it has been done online and in house.

[OgNasty]

This is something I haven’t really thought about and it could be difficult to combat. If there were enough users then I would think that randomly pairing players at a table would be the best way to combat this issue. However, if people are motivated enough, there is probably no foolproof way to stop it completely.

[Satofan44]

Well, in terms of online, I think it is hard to do unless you are on a Discord call or something. I'm not much of a poker player, but what is the benefit of having collusion? Most likely, it is to gang up on one player? I mean, that's just really unfair.

Better chances of winning by manipulating the game with a joint strategy. Perhaps if you are thinking of small bet tables it may not be worth the trouble for you, but think of bigger tables. 8 players, $10k each. Even if all 7 people colluded, it is still $10k to be split among them. Pretty easy money, low risk. Online collusion is hard to prevent. Random matching helps.

I believe it can be easily controled by casinos of they set their matching systems so people from similar IPs cannot end up in the same table. It would be similar to systems which are used by cooperative games on the internet to prevent players from the same IP address from colluding against other participants.

What do you mean with similar IPs? The same city, region, state, country? Such limits are arbitrary and actually do not prevent collusion.

It would also require casinos not to allow their poker players to make use of VPNs to mask their IP address.

A residential proxy can easily defeat this ban, so neither does this work.

[freedomgo]

Since it’s online, it’s really hard to tell who’s colluding. If they only check IPs, that’s easy to bypass and break the link. And honestly, collusion doesn’t just happen online, even in live poker games at casinos, there are players working together. But I guess that’s just part of the game, and if you’re skilled enough and luck is on your side, you can still beat the table even when some players are colluding.

[Agbamoni]

There was this time someone complained that he and his friend connived to cheat another poker player by making him lose only for his friend to cheat him in the end to win the game.

My conclusion on cheating in poker game is that, one day the one who thinks he can cheat very well will get in a position where if he does, it will affect him and he will found someone who can cheat him too.

[iv4n]

What should be done to ensure the game remains fair and based on fair play?

Patterns... you search for some patterns. But the thing is that it can be discovered only after the game is finished, and when someone analyzes all the hands played. I guess some amateurs use the same address for multiple accounts, and it's easy to catch them....

My personal opinion is that the conclusion can help cheaters... their advantage lies in seeing/knowing a few more cards, but if you are getting good cards & play smart, they can't do much.

[tsaroz]

The thing we don't consider in collusion is it could happen in a different degrees and sometimes it's not obvious.

The general idea is the two players know each others hand and the player with larger hand continues while the smaller one folds. But on some form of collusion, the players don't necessarily need to know each others cards. They might just go easy on each other or share their balance to keep chances of both of them high.

Collusion could be one of the largest drawback of Online poker. It's possible on offline poker as well but its not as easy as online.

[Porfirii]

This is not new and every poker site has a counter for potential collusion since it can be spotted by checking the similarities of players playing on the same table frequently with shady showdown on the table.

Now that casino can detect similar IP and login activities of account. They can spot which is which account connected to each other by playing same behavior on the same table.

This is not new, indeed. There is a famous saying by the celebrated american poker player Amarillo Slim:


Source: azquotes.com

Colusion is real not only in poker, but in many other games, and even other aspects in life like the markets, where there is legislation to prevent unfair competition.

But back to the poker table, yes, I agree that it is easier for these situations to occur in face-to-face games than in online games.

[qwertyup23]

Well, in terms of online, I think it is hard to do unless you are on a Discord call or something. I'm not much of a poker player, but what is the benefit of having collusion? Most likely, it is to gang up on one player? I mean, that's just really unfair.

I don't think any technology right now is capable of detecting that because there are different connections to a game, maybe just randomized to joining of games or something.

I agree with your statement.

I mean hypothetically speaking, there is that possibility of collusion but I highly doubt that it happens in this kind of setting. Additionally, this can also happen specifically in some games where there is skill involved (e.g. poker) where players get to participate in one field. The only problem is, some gambling websites have devised a way in order to prevent this from happening- you join random rooms instead of participating and choosing your desired room.

There was this time someone complained that he and his friend connived to cheat another poker player by making him lose only for his friend to cheat him in the end to win the game.

My conclusion on cheating in poker game is that, one day the one who thinks he can cheat very well will get in a position where if he does, it will affect him and he will found someone who can cheat him too.

That may be true but I really doubt that collusion may happen in gambling. I mean, there are lots of factors to consider and with all the possibilities in gambling, it's near impossible to do it successfully.

[Mr. Magkaisa]

Face to face and onlne poker, it is possible that is why we should observe more on our opponent. well we should do that , so we can look on their strategy.
To stop it? it is hard to get the evience and it will be trouble for sure. we have a poker community on this forum and we do more than 1 poker night in a week, we caught some cheaters!

[YOSHIE]

What should be done to ensure the game remains fair and based on fair play?

Nothing can be done, unless you stop playing poker or caught by you they do collusion or you really know the characteristics of certain gambling collusion, But I am not sure that it is known that other users as far as I know the activity is one of the hidden agreements and is very confidential between two parties.

I have heard from my friend who held a poker tournament at the dealer and players in taking deceptive actions against other players in card players often done, starting from the action Bribery or manipulating rules for personal gains often occurs, for that honestly I do not like to gambling poker, but the way they do is very confidential, on average it is never known.

[₿itcoin]

Yes, matchmaking is a legitimate risk & many poker sites simply won't stand by. you know tier 1 platforms like PokerStars or PartyPoker use AI powered behavioral analysis & pattern detection. think same players always at the same table, good hand combinations, suspicious betting tendencies to flag up the opposition. They also check IP, device ID & do hand level forensics. you know some partnerships like GTO Wizard give operators an extra eye for strange play patterns

[Nahl]

For offline poker games probably the dealers can avoiding this thing happened that because it is the players vs players and these condition makes the people know each other because face to face but for online poker platform i think it will be hard to detected because those who have a plan to collusion probably will register using different IP and different devices so basically these people didn't cheating the casinos for creating an accounts

Actually it never crossed in my mind that people have collusion to defeat other players especially since online gambling sites can be access by different users from different countries randomly but several years ago i have heard different cases that there was a scam casino want to rigged poker games by putting several fake players into the tables and cheating the game