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Author Topic: Bitstamp going paranoid about ID verification  (Read 7640 times)
Arpstorm (OP)
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April 03, 2014, 06:21:57 PM
 #1

Hi everyone,

I was recently trying to get my ID verified at Bitstamp. During like five iterations I provided them with the following set of documents:

1. 300dpi scanned image of ID
2. 300dpi scanned certificate of residency (unfortunately 1 year old.. My bad)
3. photo picture of latest (church) tax return statement
4. photo picture of yearly tax return statement
5. 300dpi scan of yearly tax return statement
6. photo picture of front and backside of my ID

I then received the fifth “Verification Request Denied” mail and the following statement via support ticket:

[...] We would kindly ask you to submit a high resolution image of yourself holding your ID (the same ID used for your account verification) and "[date of submission] For Bitstamp LIMITED only" written on a piece of paper[…]

I don’t know about you guys but I find this an outrageous request. Especially after trying to follow each of their previous instructions to the letter. I’m actually not sure if bitstamp is messing with me or if they have such little trust in potential customers these days. In case anyone’s interested I can send the whole conversation via PM. I will be looking for another exchanger now and I regret sending them any personal documents in the first place.

Anyways, I just wanted to share the information and I would appreciate you people's opinion on this matter.
moni3z
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April 03, 2014, 07:58:47 PM
 #2

They use a verification service:
http://www.gbgplc.com/

Your info is put into a global intel database, if you're cool with that go on right ahead if not go on IRC and trade with somebody else, or here
amspir
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April 03, 2014, 08:09:10 PM
 #3

I don’t know about you guys but I find this an outrageous request. Especially after trying to follow each of their previous instructions to the letter. I’m actually not sure if bitstamp is messing with me or if they have such little trust in potential customers these days. In case anyone’s interested I can send the whole conversation via PM. I will be looking for another exchanger now and I regret sending them any personal documents in the first place.

See which of your elected representatives voted for the Patriot Act, and the onerous KYC/AML laws that followed, and vote them out.   You can't blame Bitstamp for trying to run a legal business.

Arpstorm (OP)
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April 04, 2014, 09:48:56 PM
 #4

See which of your elected representatives voted for the Patriot Act, and the onerous KYC/AML laws that followed, and vote them out.   You can't blame Bitstamp for trying to run a legal business.

I never had any such trouble with any bank before. But then again, I don't live in the US..
Bit_Happy
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April 04, 2014, 11:05:36 PM
 #5

They are the current #1 exchange, so this is a really serious issue.
Markets need traders not red tape.

TheFootMan
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April 05, 2014, 01:23:00 PM
 #6

Sounds cumbersome.

But picture this.

- Someone setting up a BitStamp account could be using a fake id, it could be doctored in a number of ways.
- Bitstamp requiring that you hold up the ID alongside with taking a high-res photograph of yourself where also the ID is visible, will make it harder to cheat the identity process - and also if you're a cheater, they would now have a high res picture of you to send to interpol, or whatever other agency they'd cooperate with.
- Exchanges are hit right and left with identity scammers, and need to take their own precautions.

So how do you in fact stay safe an anonymous, which actually is your right, imo.

- You could get yourself a convincing fake passport or similar, and most other docs, like utility bill etc. could be doctored. Then first get yourself a bank account with this fake information, secondly make the Bitstamp or other exchange account. If you're lucky, it will all turn out well, and you will have access to a verified bank account and a verified exchange account while none of your private information has been leaked. But that would be against the law, and if anyone found out, funds might've been frozen pending investigation in either the bank or at the exchange - and in that case - you could be in deep trouble, unless you were okay with just writing it all off as a loss. But in a lot of cases, it would never be discovered - and you would be fine. But you'd really need to know a whole lot of the process whereby you become identified - are the financial institutions you're registering with running checks, running your papers through databases they have access to ? Do they check whether your name actually exists, and that your passport number is valid? If the entire process is disconnected from such systems, it would be much easier to cheat. But basically - unless you know what you're doing, you're travelling down a black rabbit hole there. And although it could be justified from a perspective of personal safety and anonymity, it would be highly illegal in most jurisdiction, and penalties for getting caught for such crimes could range from fines to years in prison. Falsifying documents are a serious matter in many countries.

An exchange becoming suspicious as to whether a customer is legit or not, I can see they would ask for a high res picture where you hold up your ID. That might stop a few scammers in their tracks, but it might also stop some legit customers that absolutely do not want their picture being submitted like that. But it's understandable that an exchange asking for this, and then the customer starts making a fuss about, the exchange will hesitate and halt the process until the customer comply.

After all, and this holds true for any company requiring customer identification: The company has a lot of customer interaction every day, and they have a set routine of procedures they follow to verify customer accounts - arguing with them, and trying to circumvent these procedures are usually futile, and only leads to delays and frustrations on your part - the company don't care too much. The only way the company would care was if this started to hurt their business substantially, ie. a dryup of new customers, and customers leaving. And we must also realize a lot of these companies have certain KYC/AML requirements that are showed down their throat by regulation and local laws and procedures, so even if their execs don't like it, they just have to follow it to stay in business.

So, when we've established that falsifying documents to gain access to verified accounts are illegal, there's a few other routes.

You could use a mule, a person, a drug addicts or whoever that really don't give two shits about their identity or anything for that matter or someone who's just really desperate, might be willing to give up all info required and act as a proxy for you. Scenario: This drug addict in the neighbor town gets the word that if he helps get a bank account and an exchange account verified, he will get 5000 dollars, but have to give up access to the accounts to the beneficiary. This is probably also very illegal, but it would be harder to pin it on you, if done right. Still a lot of work, and it could go wrong as well, the upside of this scenario would be that you actually had 100% legit documents, so every checks against national databases would not give a warning signal.

The last and possibly best route would be not to trade on an exchange, but to trade p2p. Various measures could be put in place to make it safer, and very little identifiable information would be needed to give away. You could even establish relationship with traders that could provide the services you need on a consistent basis.

So in the end, you have to play by the rules decided by the exchange, there's no easy way around it. If you don't like those rules - you're out of luck and can't use their services.
TheFootMan
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April 05, 2014, 01:23:39 PM
 #7

They are the current #1 exchange, so this is a really serious issue.
Markets need traders not red tape.

Agreed - I think also that anyone depositing BTC and withdrawing BTC only should not need to be verified.
sgk
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April 05, 2014, 02:30:36 PM
 #8

While the process is long, I don't think it's an unfair request.

Remember the MtGox data breach? Anyone having an ID from a hacked online database can fake someone else's identity on an exchange.
Your picture holding your own document WITH THE DATE WRITTEN ALONGSIDE IT is the only way to determine that you own that ID.
Arpstorm (OP)
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April 05, 2014, 05:32:22 PM
 #9

It's not about staying anonymous or about a complicated procedure. But if Bitstamp cannot rely on the verification process announced in the FAQ, they have to change their FAQ! So people can decide before sending them document after document. Note that they first asked for all the other documents which I provided willingly. Only then they requested the mugshot.
This is deceptive, outright insulting and totally unprofessional!
nahtnam
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April 05, 2014, 07:41:48 PM
 #10

Did you take the pictures while you were holding your ID next to your face? Also Buttercoin is coming out soon so it would be a much better way to exchange money through that.

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