Roobet deducted 2260$ from winnings without any explanation -RESOLVED

[rohang]

I am posting this on behalf of a friend as he is not accustomed to bitcointalk

What happened::
Roobet user OldHickory played Evolutions Craps and Blackjack on 17 September. He had a really good session on Blackjack and Craps.

The starting balance was 5000$ (from his deposit) , After the session balance was around 10,500 $. Two withdraws of 9000 and 1500$ were made on same day.
The withdraws were pending until 25 september with no answer from support other than "escalated to department" and undergoing "routine verification"

On 25 september the withdraws were cancelled and balance was adjusted from 10500 to 8240.12 $

Support only said that " your account received incorrect credits due to a system error"


Amount Scammed: 2260$
 Screenshot of withdraw made/cancelled and balance adjustment:



Screenshot of bets in Evolution Table:



Support reply on 25th:


Some points i would like to add-

• No rules were broken. Account is kyc level 2 verified.
• Player is high stakes legitimate player(Diamond 2 on stake). He started with 5000 and ended just above double it. This is not case of someone winnings many times their deposit
• Support experience was terrible. Waiting for more then a week without any reliable info is torture for habitual gamblers.
• 8245$ was withdrawn successfully but there is no info about the remaining 2260$ other than a 'system error'. How can we believe that ? why should we believe that ? what stops them from inventing new errors everyday and deducting winnings whenever they feel like it? Has anyone EVER been refunded due to a system error ? im sure not

What user wants:
Original balance to be honored and paid in full. Roobet system errors (if there was even any) are not our responsibility. If we make any mistake they gladly take our money too

[Helena Yu]

Well there's a rules in their terms if they have a right to deduct the winnings not belong to the user, even the user withdraw the whole winnings, they expect the user to give back the money to the casino.

But I've tried to sum all the win and lose, it's correct the amount is $5,055.

Probably what they mean about system error is inside the game, but it's hard to prove when we're the gamblers can't see anything behind them.

10.6. If we mistakenly credit your Iron Pouch with winnings that do not belong to You, whether due to a technical error in the pay-tables, or human error or otherwise, the amount will remain our property and will be deducted from your Iron Pouch. If You have withdrawn funds that do not belong to You prior to Us becoming aware of the error, the paid amount will (without prejudice to other remedies and actions that may be available at law) constitute a debt owed by You to Us. In the event of an incorrect crediting, you are obliged to notify us immediately by email.

[Cointxz]

Well there's a rules in their terms if they have a right to deduct the winnings not belong to the user, even the user withdraw the whole winnings, they expect the user to give back the money to the casino.

But I've tried to sum all the win and lose, it's correct the amount is $5,055.

Probably what they mean about system error is inside the game, but it's hard to prove when we're the gamblers can't see anything behind them.

10.6. If we mistakenly credit your Iron Pouch with winnings that do not belong to You, whether due to a technical error in the pay-tables, or human error or otherwise, the amount will remain our property and will be deducted from your Iron Pouch. If You have withdrawn funds that do not belong to You prior to Us becoming aware of the error, the paid amount will (without prejudice to other remedies and actions that may be available at law) constitute a debt owed by You to Us. In the event of an incorrect crediting, you are obliged to notify us immediately by email.

Evolution gaming bet history is accurate based on my many year’s experience of playing on this game provider.

Roobet should pointed out what specific bet is an error because it’s easy to verify the specific bet on the evolution gaming support.


@Rohang, will you mind tell your friend to ask the evolution gaming support to check all his bets for that time period and get a confirmation that all bet history is accurate.

This will help you to justify that your friend bet is legitimate.

[rohang]

Well there's a rules in their terms if they have a right to deduct the winnings not belong to the user, even the user withdraw the whole winnings, they expect the user to give back the money to the casino.

But I've tried to sum all the win and lose, it's correct the amount is $5,055.

Probably what they mean about system error is inside the game, but it's hard to prove when we're the gamblers can't see anything behind them.

10.6. If we mistakenly credit your Iron Pouch with winnings that do not belong to You, whether due to a technical error in the pay-tables, or human error or otherwise, the amount will remain our property and will be deducted from your Iron Pouch. If You have withdrawn funds that do not belong to You prior to Us becoming aware of the error, the paid amount will (without prejudice to other remedies and actions that may be available at law) constitute a debt owed by You to Us. In the event of an incorrect crediting, you are obliged to notify us immediately by email.

Hard to imagine such an error coming in those Evolution games,craps and BJ have been around for ages.
 Its not like he was playing some new slot which was untested and open to abuse

Well there's a rules in their terms if they have a right to deduct the winnings not belong to the user, even the user withdraw the whole winnings, they expect the user to give back the money to the casino.

But I've tried to sum all the win and lose, it's correct the amount is $5,055.

Probably what they mean about system error is inside the game, but it's hard to prove when we're the gamblers can't see anything behind them.

10.6. If we mistakenly credit your Iron Pouch with winnings that do not belong to You, whether due to a technical error in the pay-tables, or human error or otherwise, the amount will remain our property and will be deducted from your Iron Pouch. If You have withdrawn funds that do not belong to You prior to Us becoming aware of the error, the paid amount will (without prejudice to other remedies and actions that may be available at law) constitute a debt owed by You to Us. In the event of an incorrect crediting, you are obliged to notify us immediately by email.

Evolution gaming bet history is accurate based on my many year’s experience of playing on this game provider.

Roobet should pointed out what specific bet is an error because it’s easy to verify the specific bet on the evolution gaming support.


@Rohang, will you mind tell your friend to ask the evolution gaming support to check all his bets for that time period and get a confirmation that all bet history is accurate.

This will help you to justify that your friend bet is legitimate.

Thanks for your suggestion, he will talk to EVO support and see what info they provide

[Shishir99]

I personally think if Roobet intends to scam him, they could entirely wipe out the winnings. But they adjusted $2260, which means there was something from their side that they did not explain to the player. It's a big casino with a considerable reputation. Of course, there were scam accusations against them, but they handled them well. I think Roobet needs to explain the player regarding the adjustment they are talking about.

If the player was fair, the casino should also be fair with the player. That is my point of view. Please ask your friend to contact both Roobet and Evolution. I don't think Evolution will be able to find anything without the data from Roobet.

[alani123]

How could there be a system error on live games?

These are hosted by a third party provider with physical cards. The randomness is on the physical shuffle. There's no algorithm or bonus scheme that can go wrong because it's all physical in terms of the results.

So what Roobet is claiming is physically impossible and actually puts the integrity of the provider at stake too. I wonder if Evolution would have a comment on the situation based on the fact that they're the most mainstream provider of live games as a third party for most online casinos.

It's just not fair for Roobet to blame Evolution for a situation they create..they're partners after all. For such unprofessional handling of user funds if I was evolution I'd seriously consider investigating such partners.

[OldHickory]

Just getting acclimated to bitcointalk and set my account up here. Thank you to Rohang for putting this complaint together for me.  I have wagered many millions of dollars on craps tables at brick and mortar casinos and also on Evolution live craps tables. I know absolutely everything about the game of craps. Every bet I placed was paid properly, and every time I lost, the bets were taken away in accordance to the rules of the game.  I dont make mistakes.  I have no idea why Roobet would want to fuck with me like that, but they definitely did.

How could there be a system error on live games?

These are hosted by a third party provider with physical cards. The randomness is on the physical shuffle. There's no algorithm or bonus scheme that can go wrong because it's all physical in terms of the results.

So what Roobet is claiming is physically impossible and actually puts the integrity of the provider at stake too. I wonder if Evolution would have a comment on the situation based on the fact that they're the most mainstream provider of live games as a third party for most online casinos.

It's just not fair for Roobet to blame Evolution for a situation they create..they're partners after all. For such unprofessional handling of user funds if I was evolution I'd seriously consider investigating such partners.

Thank you!  There weren't any errors at all. They strung me along for 8 days, giving me ZERO information about what was going on, other than repeating the same message every day that withdrawals were being subject to "routine verification".  After 8 days of torture, they message me out of nowhere after deducting the 10,500 and adding the 8,240 in its place, and let me know my account had "received incorrect credits".  No explanation, no apology, no details whatsoever. Just sorry about your luck, we garnished your balance for 2,200 dollars.   Its not right to treat people like that.



Sorry about having broke the consecutive post rule. I am new to Bitcointalk and was not aware of that. I wont do it again!

[ptaylor78]

How could there be a system error on live games?

These are hosted by a third party provider with physical cards. The randomness is on the physical shuffle. There's no algorithm or bonus scheme that can go wrong because it's all physical in terms of the results.

So what Roobet is claiming is physically impossible and actually puts the integrity of the provider at stake too. I wonder if Evolution would have a comment on the situation based on the fact that they're the most mainstream provider of live games as a third party for most online casinos.

It's just not fair for Roobet to blame Evolution for a situation they create..they're partners after all. For such unprofessional handling of user funds if I was evolution I'd seriously consider investigating such partners.

Just to clarify, Evolution Craps is live dealer, while Evolution First Person Blackjack is a digital RNG game. If Blackjack had a technical malfunction, the round should have been voided with a refund at the time. Retroactive clawbacks on RNG games are uncommon unless there’s proven malfunction or fraud. Live games are far more prone to review errors. Since post-settlement RNG errors are rare, Roobet’s “system error” claim likely relates to Craps. Either way, they owe the player a clear explanation for why $2,260 was deducted.

[OldHickory]

How could there be a system error on live games?

These are hosted by a third party provider with physical cards. The randomness is on the physical shuffle. There's no algorithm or bonus scheme that can go wrong because it's all physical in terms of the results.

So what Roobet is claiming is physically impossible and actually puts the integrity of the provider at stake too. I wonder if Evolution would have a comment on the situation based on the fact that they're the most mainstream provider of live games as a third party for most online casinos.

It's just not fair for Roobet to blame Evolution for a situation they create..they're partners after all. For such unprofessional handling of user funds if I was evolution I'd seriously consider investigating such partners.

Just to clarify, Evolution Craps is live dealer, while Evolution First Person Blackjack is a digital RNG game. If Blackjack had a technical malfunction, the round should have been voided with a refund at the time. Retroactive clawbacks on RNG games are uncommon unless there’s proven malfunction or fraud. Live games are far more prone to review errors. Since post-settlement RNG errors are rare, Roobet’s “system error” claim likely relates to Craps. Either way, they owe the player a clear explanation for why $2,260 was deducted.

They froze my withdrawals on September 17th and I have yet to been given any kind of explanation for what they did.  Asked again 14 hours ago and still nothing.   They asked for up to 24 hours to reply. You'd think they would have already had the DETAILS in order to justify taking 2200 from somebody, but I guess not. They seem to be making it up as they go along.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

What a strange case. Deducting 40% of winnings from the player's account is something I haven't even heard of. 
I mean first ting is already annoying, suspending the account with no updates for over a week. And when finally something moves forward it's them taking almost half his winnings? Would be funny if it wasn't actually sad.
1 more thing I want to add, guess those "system errors" only happened when he was winning. Bets that he has lost were likely not cancelled. Errors always somehow only favor the site, never the player. Think about that.
Would be interesting to know if they could name the exact bets that have been found out as errors. You can't just void bets without at least showing proof, right?

[rohang]

What a strange case. Deducting 40% of winnings from the player's account is something I haven't even heard of. 
I mean first ting is already annoying, suspending the account with no updates for over a week. And when finally something moves forward it's them taking almost half his winnings? Would be funny if it wasn't actually sad.
1 more thing I want to add, guess those "system errors" only happened when he was winning. Bets that he has lost were likely not cancelled. Errors always somehow only favor the site, never the player. Think about that.
Would be interesting to know if they could name the exact bets that have been found out as errors. You can't just void bets without at least showing proof, right?

Exactly, its hard to win as is , without having to worry about books voiding winnings whenever they feel like, and not even bothering to actually explain what happened

Never ever seen a loss be5 voided due to system error, once u lose u lose but if we win everything is under scrutiny

[holydarkness]

Hi, coming here from a summon.

Unfortunately, I can't offer much help for cases against Roobet. On our last communications with them to bridging disputes against them and some players, thr representative who replied to my email informed me that players should make inquiries by themselves to Roobet and they're not going to discuss matters with third party.

[OldHickory]

All good man.  After 10 days and credit adjustment with zero details as to why, I demanded a DETAILED explanation yesterday. They told me they needed up to 24 hours to give me what I asked for and as of now, they have still ghosted me.  Its crazy a book thinks its okay to garnish 2200 in winnings and not even have the proof for why they did it ready to go. I mean, why should I even have to ask for proof??? They should have explained in detail what happened right at the point of adjusting my balance.

[Wapfika]

How could there be a system error on live games?

These are hosted by a third party provider with physical cards. The randomness is on the physical shuffle. There's no algorithm or bonus scheme that can go wrong because it's all physical in terms of the results.

So what Roobet is claiming is physically impossible and actually puts the integrity of the provider at stake too. I wonder if Evolution would have a comment on the situation based on the fact that they're the most mainstream provider of live games as a third party for most online casinos.

It's just not fair for Roobet to blame Evolution for a situation they create..they're partners after all. For such unprofessional handling of user funds if I was evolution I'd seriously consider investigating such partners.

Just to clarify, Evolution Craps is live dealer, while Evolution First Person Blackjack is a digital RNG game. If Blackjack had a technical malfunction, the round should have been voided with a refund at the time. Retroactive clawbacks on RNG games are uncommon unless there’s proven malfunction or fraud. Live games are far more prone to review errors. Since post-settlement RNG errors are rare, Roobet’s “system error” claim likely relates to Craps. Either way, they owe the player a clear explanation for why $2,260 was deducted.

Live game results on evolution gaming often don’t have error or else the specific round will be reviewed immediately to temporarily pause the game until the error was settled.

On this case, it’s clear that bet was continuous without any interruption which means there’s no error occurred on one of his game.

This is probably on Roobet records error. Their betting history doesn’t match to Evolution game history that’s why they deduct the deficit.

[rohang]

All good man.  After 10 days and credit adjustment with zero details as to why, I demanded a DETAILED explanation yesterday. They told me they needed up to 24 hours to give me what I asked for and as of now, they have still ghosted me.  Its crazy a book thinks its okay to garnish 2200 in winnings and not even have the proof for why they did it ready to go. I mean, why should I even have to ask for proof??? They should have explained in detail what happened right at the point of adjusting my balance.

new users cant post images so i am posting the support chat on behalf of hickory-



Crazy to me they cant tell us why 2200$ was taken out after so many days

Hi, coming here from a summon.

Unfortunately, I can't offer much help for cases against Roobet. On our last communications with them to bridging disputes against them and some players, thr representative who replied to my email informed me that players should make inquiries by themselves to Roobet and they're not going to discuss matters with third party.

Do you know if they are active here ? was any recent case replied to by them at all ? i tried searching but couldnt find proper thread

[OldHickory]

How could there be a system error on live games?

These are hosted by a third party provider with physical cards. The randomness is on the physical shuffle. There's no algorithm or bonus scheme that can go wrong because it's all physical in terms of the results.

So what Roobet is claiming is physically impossible and actually puts the integrity of the provider at stake too. I wonder if Evolution would have a comment on the situation based on the fact that they're the most mainstream provider of live games as a third party for most online casinos.

It's just not fair for Roobet to blame Evolution for a situation they create..they're partners after all. For such unprofessional handling of user funds if I was evolution I'd seriously consider investigating such partners.

Just to clarify, Evolution Craps is live dealer, while Evolution First Person Blackjack is a digital RNG game. If Blackjack had a technical malfunction, the round should have been voided with a refund at the time. Retroactive clawbacks on RNG games are uncommon unless there’s proven malfunction or fraud. Live games are far more prone to review errors. Since post-settlement RNG errors are rare, Roobet’s “system error” claim likely relates to Craps. Either way, they owe the player a clear explanation for why $2,260 was deducted.

Live game results on evolution gaming often don’t have error or else the specific round will be reviewed immediately to temporarily pause the game until the error was settled.

On this case, it’s clear that bet was continuous without any interruption which means there’s no error occurred on one of his game.

This is probably on Roobet records error. Their betting history doesn’t match to Evolution game history that’s why they deduct the deficit.

There was no error at all. Craps is a very simple game, especially if all you are doing is placing numbers and praying the SEVEN goes away for a while.  I had the 4,5,6, 8, 9,10 placed So im just watching every roll (like any craps player) and when one of those numbers comes up, i get paid. Every time one of those numbers was rolled, my balance increased by PRECISELY the amount it was supposed to.  The guy didnt roll a 7 for probably 10 or 15 mins so I won quite a few bets. Then finally he went out with a Seven and i intiiated the cashout shortly after that.   There were no mistakes or improper credits.


@Holydarkness  I respect the fact you cant get involved. Im not begging anyone to intervene on my behalf. From what I have been told, you are one of the main guys on here who advocate for gamblers who have been wronged so clearly you are a respected guy and also have a lot of experience with this type of thing. So I am just curious to know your opinion on the my situation.   8 days withdrawal frozen.  The only information I got during that time was that it was all part of a "routine review process". That was the term they used every day. They told me nothing more.  Finally after 8 days they deduct 10,500 from my account and credit my balance with about 8300 dollars.  They gave me no details as to why they did that other than to say my account had been "improperly credited".  I just dont understand why any book would think its okay to treat people like that. They gave me no apology. No sorry for the mixup. Just steal 2200 from me and chalk it up to "improper credits".  How is that okay?

[Hhampuz]

How could there be a system error on live games?

These are hosted by a third party provider with physical cards. The randomness is on the physical shuffle. There's no algorithm or bonus scheme that can go wrong because it's all physical in terms of the results.

So what Roobet is claiming is physically impossible and actually puts the integrity of the provider at stake too. I wonder if Evolution would have a comment on the situation based on the fact that they're the most mainstream provider of live games as a third party for most online casinos.

It's just not fair for Roobet to blame Evolution for a situation they create..they're partners after all. For such unprofessional handling of user funds if I was evolution I'd seriously consider investigating such partners.

It happens all the time. Plus whenever something like this happens it would be evolution reaching out to the casino telling them "Something went wrong here, you need to adjust their balance" - never the other way around.

[ptaylor78]

How could there be a system error on live games?

These are hosted by a third party provider with physical cards. The randomness is on the physical shuffle. There's no algorithm or bonus scheme that can go wrong because it's all physical in terms of the results.

So what Roobet is claiming is physically impossible and actually puts the integrity of the provider at stake too. I wonder if Evolution would have a comment on the situation based on the fact that they're the most mainstream provider of live games as a third party for most online casinos.

It's just not fair for Roobet to blame Evolution for a situation they create..they're partners after all. For such unprofessional handling of user funds if I was evolution I'd seriously consider investigating such partners.

Just to clarify, Evolution Craps is live dealer, while Evolution First Person Blackjack is a digital RNG game. If Blackjack had a technical malfunction, the round should have been voided with a refund at the time. Retroactive clawbacks on RNG games are uncommon unless there’s proven malfunction or fraud. Live games are far more prone to review errors. Since post-settlement RNG errors are rare, Roobet’s “system error” claim likely relates to Craps. Either way, they owe the player a clear explanation for why $2,260 was deducted.

Live game results on evolution gaming often don’t have error or else the specific round will be reviewed immediately to temporarily pause the game until the error was settled.

On this case, it’s clear that bet was continuous without any interruption which means there’s no error occurred on one of his game.

This is probably on Roobet records error. Their betting history doesn’t match to Evolution game history that’s why they deduct the deficit.

There was no error at all. Craps is a very simple game, especially if all you are doing is placing numbers and praying the SEVEN goes away for a while.  I had the 4,5,6, 8, 9,10 placed So im just watching every roll (like any craps player) and when one of those numbers comes up, i get paid. Every time one of those numbers was rolled, my balance increased by PRECISELY the amount it was supposed to.  The guy didnt roll a 7 for probably 10 or 15 mins so I won quite a few bets. Then finally he went out with a Seven and i intiiated the cashout shortly after that.   There were no mistakes or improper credits.


@Holydarkness  I respect the fact you cant get involved. Im not begging anyone to intervene on my behalf. From what I have been told, you are one of the main guys on here who advocate for gamblers who have been wronged so clearly you are a respected guy and also have a lot of experience with this type of thing. So I am just curious to know your opinion on the my situation.   8 days withdrawal frozen.  The only information I got during that time was that it was all part of a "routine review process". That was the term they used every day. They told me nothing more.  Finally after 8 days they deduct 10,500 from my account and credit my balance with about 8300 dollars.  They gave me no details as to why they did that other than to say my account had been "improperly credited".  I just dont understand why any book would think its okay to treat people like that. They gave me no apology. No sorry for the mixup. Just steal 2200 from me and chalk it up to "improper credits".  How is that okay?

Looking at the Craps history, are these two bet payouts possible under normal craps odds?

$445 bet → $421.66. On a $445 bet, valid profits should be 518.83 (6/8 at 7:6), 623 (5/9 at 7:5), or 801 (4/10 at 9:5). A profit of 421.66 isn’t a valid outcome.

$400 bet → $580. Valid profits would be 466.67, 560, or 720. 580 doesn’t match any standard craps payout.

[OldHickory]

"Looking at the Craps history, are these two bet payouts possible under normal craps odds?

$445 bet → $421.66. On a $445 bet, valid profits should be 518.83 (6/8 at 7:6), 623 (5/9 at 7:5), or 801 (4/10 at 9:5). A profit of 421.66 isn’t a valid outcome.

$400 bet → $580. Valid profits would be 466.67, 560, or 720. 580 doesn’t match any standard craps payout."


I occasionally bet on some one roll outcomes (usually a horn bet, sometimes C/E). I dont know if those smaller bets impacted the posted payout on those or not.  Its actually pretty rare I do a one roll bet. Maybe once per 10 rolls if that. So Im not sure.  I sometimes press in weird increments because a computer is tabulating the payout, as opposed to the etiquitte I would show a dealer at a brick and mortar casino lol.


And just another little update. I was told about 30 hours ago they would need up to 24 hours to give me a detailed explanation as to why they took my 2200.  That still has not happened. So I am on 11 days now since the frozen withdrawal with zero information about what actually happened.  For one of the supposed industry leaders to treat a customer like this cannot be justified.

[xLays]

I think I’ve experienced similar issue with roobet.com, though in my case it was only few dollars. I remember posting about it in their bitcointalk thread as well, but nothing really happened so I just let it go since the amount was small.

As far as I can recall, I even provided screenshots and proof of my bet history from Evolution to roobet support, yet I never received any correction to my balance. They just kept insisting that the balance was correct and that there was no issue at all.

Even though it was a simple case, it pushed me to minimize my play on roobet because this kind of problem only happened to me there with involvement of Evo provider. I’m still not sure if the problem lies with roobet itself or with Evolution Gaming, but either way it left me with doubts.