An Arrest/deportation Scenario

[aoluain]

This is something which has been rolling around my brain for the last 24 hours...

I read yesterday of a 73yo woman who was deported from the US by ICE, its been
happening to ordinary residents in the US not just dangerous criminals and it
can happen in other countries for example Australia.

Anyway the point of the thread is NOT to debate whether the deportations are
justified or not, this thread is to discuss what happens when you are picked up.

Assuming you are picked up outside your home and deported you lose possession of
your belongings including your hardware wallet and seed (assuming you dont carry it
with you and assuming the officials havent confiscated it)

I cant figure out how I would survive if I had no contacts left in the country
they deported me to, with possibly no or limited money and no access to my
bank or to my Bitcoin.

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

[ABCbits]

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

While it's generally not recommended, IMO this one of scenario where brainwallet or having encrypted cloud backup may help you.

[notocactus]

While it's generally not recommended, IMO this one of scenario where brainwallet or having encrypted cloud backup may help you.

One of recommendations is having multiple backups at different locations but I know it's non sense in deportation case too. It's because most of Bitcoin users are very unlikely have ability to store wallet backups in different nations. Even if we can, I am not sure it is a safe wallet backup storage in practice.

Usually it's not common to take wallet backup storage too far like this by lack of chance for regular backup checks which is a very important step in wallet backup storage.

Geographic Diversity

If any single location has enough key material that a physical attacker could use it to steal funds, you have a single point of failure. You'll want to spread your backups across a variety of physically secure / hard to find locations so that it's unlikely that any single disaster or attacker will be able to cause a simultaneous loss from multiple locations.

However, you don't want to take this too far! While you want it to be unlikely for an attacker or some event to be able to compromise your seeds, you also need to be able to check them every once in a while to ensure that they have not been compromised. If you never check your backups then a patient attacker could spend years slowly compromising enough of them that they can reconstitute your keys and steal your funds without you realizing until it's too late.

It is not recommended to use brains but if my practice is diversifying my coins to different wallets, at least I will try to use my brain and memory to remember wallet mnemonic seed of a biggest wallet.

[Helena Yu]

I mean, an immigrant should aware if they might not able to live forever in that country regardless they have a student visa, work visa etc, except they're a permanent resident. So if you're not yet a permanent resident, don't think you will be 100% safe, you have to think about every possible way to access your coins.

Asking a friend and carry hardware wallet on airport doesn't feel safe for me.

Encrypted file on cloud doesn't look that bad to be honest.

[Alvin_talk]

While it's generally not recommended, IMO this one of scenario where brainwallet or having encrypted cloud backup may help you.

While I am not generally in support with brainwallets but I think in this case it stands out.

I will also suggest that an inheritance plan like Dead Man's Switch can also be of help if you have a someone you can trust.

[Lucius]

I don't know what the exact procedure is for deportations when it comes to the US, but shouldn't those who are deported be allowed to take at least some personal belongings with them?

If that is not the case, then the only way for a deported person to regain possession of their backup is to encrypt it and store it online, and try to remember the password. In that case, you would have access to your backup anywhere in the world where you have internet access.

[YellowSwap]

I like that you used a 73years old for example, is it possible that this woman landed in the US all by her self? i have my doubts because that's a very old person who will always need assistance, someone who knows her will be in the states.

now let's say this happened to someone younger maybe in the 50s, you are indeed right that they will lose access to their wallet backups, unless they have a steel braced into a part of their body or they always wore their stainless steel with the recovery seed around their neck always.

Even if this is a new lesson that we all claiming to have learned here, let's not forget about the opposite, let's say this woman have her recovery seed on her before the deportation, the people responsible for the deportation might take it from her and pretend like nothing happened.

Here is another possibility, what if she was kidnapped? kidnappers will found the recovery seed, she will be forced to explain what it is and if they are US citizens they will surely knows how a recovery seed looks like.

My final say is that it is even more dangerous to walk around with your recovery seed than keeping them in your safe at home.

[Hatchy]

What do you do in such a scenario?

If her property in the US is not confiscated, as you suggested, she should reach out to close contacts there to help retrieve some of her personal belongings, especially the hardware wallets.

We rarely think about cases like this, but there are certain unlikely situations that could put our keys at risk. If we don't plan for them, many of us Bitcoin and crypto users could face a significant loss. This is an important consideration for investors who often prefer to live in countries with fewer regulatory concerns and where their human rights are protected.

The key is simply to have a backup plan in case an event like this happens. While some might consider using online storage as a solution in this scenario, it's not ideal. It's almost always safer to know your keys were physically left behind somewhere secure than to have them exposed on the internet.

[IjawMan]

What do you do in such a scenario?

If her property in the US is not confiscated, as you suggested, she should reach out to close contacts there to help retrieve some of her personal belongings, especially the hardware wallets.

We rarely think about cases like this, but there are certain unlikely situations that could put our keys at risk. If we don't plan for them, many of us Bitcoin and crypto users could face a significant loss. This is an important consideration for investors who often prefer to live in countries with fewer regulatory concerns and where their human rights are protected.

The key is simply to have a backup plan in case an event like this happens. While some might consider using online storage as a solution in this scenario, it's not ideal. It's almost always safer to know your keys were physically left behind somewhere secure than to have them exposed on the internet.

This where trust and brainwallet has to be thought out for the persons that have literally turned down as bad the idea of trusting a blood relative with an idea of our keys and it location. A wallet with such value must have to be retrieved by someone we trust right before the nightmare.

For a deportee situation a brainwallet will cancel the problem of facing the risk of trusting the wrong person to your wallet. Having stored our bitcoin in a hard wallet and kept in secured physical position, memorising the keys to ensure we can access them anywhere right from our head can be an extra layer for a backup plan preventing a loss not only to deportation scenarios but in fire razed scenarios.

[OcTradism]

We rarely think about cases like this, but there are certain unlikely situations that could put our keys at risk. If we don't plan for them, many of us Bitcoin and crypto users could face a significant loss. This is an important consideration for investors who often prefer to live in countries with fewer regulatory concerns and where their human rights are protected.

The key is simply to have a backup plan in case an event like this happens. While some might consider using online storage as a solution in this scenario, it's not ideal. It's almost always safer to know your keys were physically left behind somewhere secure than to have them exposed on the internet.

It is always recommended to have different wallet backups and store them at difference places but a scenario of deportation is something very extreme. You will no longer be able to move around in that nation and likely have to depend on the others to get the wallet backups for you. That's terrible as chance to have no people who can trust and are able to access the wallet backups for you is not small. In addition, trusting someone with your wallet backups is another big risk of losing your coins.

It is a more severe scenario than Beirut explosion - Lesson to learn from this.

[stompix]

What do you do in such a scenario?

What would you do if you're goign 200kmp/s in a residential area with a truck carrying 10 tons of ammonium nitrate under artillery fire?
First thing would be to ask yourself how the hell did you get in that situation!
That poor woman has been in the states for 30 years!!!!

Deepak Ahluwalia, who is representing Kaur, told NBC News that Kaur has lived in the United States since 1992 and has no criminal record. After her asylum case was denied in 2007, she appealed up to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, but her final appeal was denied “sometime in 2012 or 2013,”

Bruh, she should have gone out of the country BEFORE Satoshi invented Bitcoin!

Assuming you are picked up outside your home and deported you lose possession of your belongings including your hardware wallet and seed (assuming you dont carry it with you and assuming the officials havent confiscated it)

You don't lose ownership!
You just assign someone with POA to take care of your belongings.

I cant figure out how I would survive if I had no contacts left in the country they deported me to, with possibly no or limited money and no access to my bank or to my Bitcoin.

Why no access to your bank?
You still have your bank account and you still have your money, deportation doesn't mean confiscation of assets.
Also, you weren't a US citizen in the first place when you opened that so why would the bank care?

[aoluain]

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

While it's generally not recommended, IMO this one of scenario where brainwallet or having encrypted cloud backup may help you.

Yes I have read that brain wallets are not 100% reliable, it still might be a
good idea to have a second HW with some coins and make it an exercise to
memorise the seed. Everyone should do that while still having the actual seed
secured elsewhere.

I cant figure out how I would survive if I had no contacts left in the country they deported me to, with possibly no or limited money and no access to my bank or to my Bitcoin.

Why no access to your bank?
You still have your bank account and you still have your money, deportation doesn't mean confiscation of assets.
Also, you weren't a US citizen in the first place when you opened that so why would the bank care?

Using the example I gave above, the woman was in the US for 33 years and
had built her life there, then unexpectedly she is deported back to India,
when she landed there she must have had only what she had when she was
arrested in the US. Her bank account would not be recognised in India until
she went through the process of getting it transferred, thats not instant though.

[m2017]

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

While it's generally not recommended, IMO this one of scenario where brainwallet or having encrypted cloud backup may help you.

I would suggest enhancing the brainwallet with encrypted seed-phrase hints. Writing them on paper, in an electronic file, and so on are not suitable. You should apply the hint to something you always have with you, such as human skin. Create a tattoo containing "images" of the 12 words, so that when you look at them, you'll remember the original words. In other words, it should be a combination of a brainwallet and information encrypted in a way you understand. This will act as an "anchor" for your memory, and if you forget the words, the tattoo with images encrypted as "images" will help you recall them. Also, this seed-phrase will always be with you. Wherever you are. Until the end. Of course, this seed-phrase can't be displayed anywhere else, because if it is compromised, it will be difficult to change the tattoo.

This is a complex and unsuitable option for you, but in my opinion, it is more reliable.

[Die_empty]

Using the example I gave above, the woman was in the US for 33 years and
had built her life there, then unexpectedly she is deported back to India,
when she landed there she must have had only what she had when she was
arrested in the US. Her bank account would not be recognised in India until
she went through the process of getting it transferred, thats not instant though.

The deportation is not unexpected because she is an illegal immigrant and also aware of the aggressive raids by (ICE) officials under the present government. If I were in her shoes, I would have made adequate preparations for my deportation because it can happen at anytime. Everything about my money in the form of fiat and crypto would have been kept in conditions that I can access them if I am deported. Just like others have said memorising the seed phrase or using encrypted cloud backup would be helpful in this condition,    

[Vvang]

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

While it's generally not recommended, IMO this one of scenario where brainwallet or having encrypted cloud backup may help you.

Still not recommended like you said, cloud backup have messed many people up, I will only do this if the amount of the total asset isn't that much, in the hundreds of dollars, the moment it's over a thousand in dollars it is best to buy a hardware wallet, how you want to move it around is your problem.

Honestly this isn't the advice we should be sharing base on what OP shared, instead of saying that brainwallet or cloud backup isn't generally bad in this type of situation why can't we advice people to stay away from crime, any type of crime that can get you deported from a foreign country abstain from it.

OP labeled her, the old woman as ordinary, I refuse to believe it, it is nothing out of the ordinary that some people are doing everything they can to survive in today's world, these people can't be clean and still get deported, ordinary residents? They are not ordinary.

[stompix]

Her bank account would not be recognised in India until she went through the process of getting it transferred, thats not instant though.

Recognized? By who? Who is in charge of recognizing bank accounts?  
Or do you want to say my bank account in Germany is not recognized by India, lol!!! That would mean tommorow the European Union is going to stop working since there is no branch of Erste Bank in Italy or of Banco Santander in Poland.

She just needs to have a credit/debit card attached to her account, which 101% of the people have in US, and it she can get money from every ATM in the world, she can get a bank account in India the moment she lands and a make a wire from the her US account, this is no longer the stone age she will get her money in under 24 hous.

Seriously, stop making such a big deal of a thing that can be solved in hours.

when she landed there she must have had only what she had when she was arrested in the US.

That's not how things work in deportations and do use logic for a moment, if they get you on the beach they will send you back to India in a bra and bikini?  
https://www.ice.gov/doclib/detention-standards/2011/2-5.pdf

[zasad@]

What do you do in such a scenario?

By law, a citizen cannot be deported from the country, but if citizenship was acquired and the person is subject to deportation, steps should be taken to preserve the seed phrase online. There are many ways to do this, and encryption can help. Simply remember your email password.

[Alphakilo]

Unless one can access a cloud service from the country they were deported to and that's assuming such a person even opted for cloud support services, then the other option would be to consult with a qualified attorney of whom their specialty includes asset recovery or international law or even a technical expert like someone who specializes in digital forensics to assist in recovery procedures, otherwise it's to let go and focus on better things.

[tread93]

This is something which has been rolling around my brain for the last 24 hours...

I read yesterday of a 73yo woman who was deported from the US by ICE, its been
happening to ordinary residents in the US not just dangerous criminals and it
can happen in other countries for example Australia.

Anyway the point of the thread is NOT to debate whether the deportations are
justified or not, this thread is to discuss what happens when you are picked up.

Assuming you are picked up outside your home and deported you lose possession of
your belongings including your hardware wallet and seed (assuming you dont carry it
with you and assuming the officials havent confiscated it)

I cant figure out how I would survive if I had no contacts left in the country
they deported me to, with possibly no or limited money and no access to my
bank or to my Bitcoin.

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

Wow this is a crazy scenario but im sure people are facing this today, i wonder what kind of notice if any thst they get to collect whatever belongs they have, probably little to none

[₿itcoin]

If you are deported &  lose your hardware wallet &  seed phrase, your bitcoins are effectively inaccessible. Without the seed phrase, there is no way to recover your wallet, harsh but fair & reality..

I see a lot of people talking about brainwallet or having encrypted cloud backup, using these is the same as using an exchange.

What I think you can do is back up your seed phrase, write it down &  store it in multiple secure locations, such as a fireproof safe or a trusted family members home. You can also use a multisig wallet, services like Bitkey offer multisig wallets where you hold two keys &  a third party holds the third. You may also want to consider giving a trusted person power of attorney to manage your crypto assets in case of a legal emergency. You may also want to consult with a legal professional about your rights &  options for accessing your assets after deportment.

The ultimate bottom line is, not your keys, not your coins.