An Arrest/deportation Scenario

[melinoe]

It is not recommended to use brains but if my practice is diversifying my coins to different wallets, at least I will try to use my brain and memory to remember wallet mnemonic seed of a biggest wallet.

For me I don't think a brain wallet is a good solution to immigrants saving their passphrase, it is dangerous. If I'm an immigrant and I know I have a limited stay over there either because of being deported, I will look for means to project my wallet passphrase and for now what is coming to my mind is saving it in my email and then safeguard my email password and using strong security like 2FA so that before you break into my email, it will be a difficult task.

What about having a USB with no attachment to the Internet with the said keys? - After all, why have it somewhere where somebody would be able (potentially) to get it?

The chances would be smaller with a flash drive or something like that rather than going for the Email, imo..

[Pauldesaints]

I think, that will be an ill-treatment for the official not to allow the deportee access to his or her personal belongings.it will amount to unfair and great injustice.we have to treat every human equal as we are before God and not like a common criminal.its his or her right to pick up there belongings if caught in the case of visa expiration or criminality as the case maybe.

[nemesis_incarnate]

^ The case would start if you are a criminal of sorts: then you would be deported much harsher than usual.

And in that case, you would need to see it coming and be prepared / have precautions done to not to get into such a situation.

[Ucy]

You could seek help from your embassy or fellow countrymen to help you establish in the new country if you like to remain there, or they could help get you back to your original country, and/or even assist you in getting back your documents/hardware wallet in the country you were deported from. I think your national embassy in your deported country would be in the right position to communicate with your national embassy in Australia to get the owner of the house to help retrieve and send your things. Or the embassy could use agency responsible for such role. I would rather use friends/family to do this but since it is out of the question, I would rely on embassies.


Back to surviving in the country you are deported to, the embassy, fellow countrymen, Nomad/stateless Bitcoin communities, Church (or just relying on your CREATOR to survive alone), etc would be a great way to survive. A perfect combination out of the list mentioned is relying on Church/Christain Bitcoin stateless or nomad communities to help you establish in their communities (which could be both online and offline) where you could work for bitcoins, buy and sell with the communities especially with/for bitcoins.

By the way, it's always important to identify with a group or groups with global reach, especially in time of anarchy, so that whereever you find yourself, you can connect with them. And the best way they will know you are really part of them is to test your knowledge about their belief or shared principles. The groups could also make contact with their members in Australia to help retrieve your hardware wallet.

[hd49728]

You could seek help from your embassy or fellow countrymen to help you establish in the new country if you like to remain there, or they could help get you back to your original country, and/or even assist you in getting back your documents/hardware wallet in the country you were deported from. I think your national embassy in your deported country would be in the right position to communicate with your national embassy in Australia to get the owner of the house help retrieve and send your things. Or the embassy could use agency with such role. I would rather use friends/family to do this but since it is out of the question, I would rely on embassies.

If you have no other choices, no self-control in such situations, you must find very last options with support from the others. But in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency industry, the saying is always "It's not your key, it's not your coins" and by asking the others for help of retrieving the wallets, wallet backups for, you must assume that you will have high risk of losing that wallet or wallet backups.

It's no guarantee like if the support comes from the embassy staffs, they will do right things and don't steal your bitcoin or cryptocurrencies. Everthing can happen in life and when you don't have self-control, you must assume worst thing to come with you.

If it is your fortune, I think it is possible to try remember that wallet mnemonic seed daily, then you will never forget it.

[Hewlet]

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

If we are assuming a situation where after the deportation of the person in question, he is not allowed access to his apartment in it entirety and there is no one at all that can help him retrieve his items, it only means that his phrase is gone and gone for good. it looks like an hypothetical situation because you are not in such situation. but imagine that you are sent out of your current country and that there is no one that can give you your seed phrase. what can you do in such situation? even though we do not wish that such happens, if i face such situation, my asset will be gone.

These are part of the instances we can look at and agree that keeping your seed phrase offline has it own issues also. if there is a means to, it is best to save your seed phrase in your memory even if it is not entirely safe due to forgetfulness but is better to have it there as back up rather than not having where to get it from at all.
 

[cr1776]

...  ordinary residents in the US not just dangerous criminals ...

Anyway the point of the thread is NOT to debate whether the deportations are
justified or not, this thread is to discuss what happens when you are picked up.

Assuming you are picked up outside your home and deported you lose possession of
your belongings including your hardware wallet and seed (assuming you dont carry it
with you and assuming the officials havent confiscated it)

I cant figure out how I would survive if I had no contacts left in the country
they deported me to, with possibly no or limited money and no access to my
bank or to my Bitcoin.

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

It is important to not hide the objective facts if you want accurate and objective answers.  

"ordinary residents" - you mean people who have broken the law to come to the US.  Just as every other country has laws and border controls.

"no contacts left in the country they deported me to" - are you in the US or other country illegally?  

"limited money and no access to my bank or to my Bitcoin" - if you are somewhere illegally, it is probably best to return to the country you came from with your possessions and then find a way to go where you want to go legally.  If you have spent 30 years in a country and have still not been able to obtain citizenship, perhaps reevaluate the plan.

"retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed"/"what would you do"?:
1. Memorize it is one option.  
2. Take steps to ensure that I don't get into a situation where I am in a place illegally and could be deported for breaking the law at any time.
3. Take a trip to the country I could be deported to and put a copy of the seeds (encrypted) in a safety deposit box in that country just in case the law catches up with me.
4. Give an encrypted copy to a professional trustee in the country I am in and then if I am deported ask them to send it to me.
5. Given everyone has a phone on them most of the time, keep an encrypted copy there and since you have it on your possession you would no doubt be able to take it with you.

I mean, an immigrant should aware if they might not able to live forever in that country regardless they have a student visa, work visa etc, except they're a permanent resident. So if you're not yet a permanent resident, don't think you will be 100% safe, you have to think about every possible way to access your coins.

Asking a friend and carry hardware wallet on airport doesn't feel safe for me.

Encrypted file on cloud doesn't look that bad to be honest.

And particularly in the case the OP mentions it is ILLEGAL immigrant, e.g. someone who has broken the law to go somewhere.  

I don't call someone an "immigrant" if they have broken the law to enter my house, I call them a burglar.

snip

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

When we are about to be deported, there should still be a procedure, the security forces cannot immediately expel us from our residence, unless we are a criminal, but people are still given the opportunity to retrieve their belongings, but if that is not the case, perhaps storing it online in an encrypted manner is an option that can be taken to back up our seed phrase, but we need to make sure that we add some additional words to our seed phrase and save it on 2 different and reputable platforms, since saving it online is more risky.

Which in the case of someone in a country illegally, they are, by definition a criminal by breaking immigration laws.

If I go to Mexico or China or Japan or Korea or Italy and overstay my visa, will they just let me stay and work and vote?

I think, that will be an ill-treatment for the official not to allow the deportee access to his or her personal belongings.it will amount to unfair and great injustice.we have to treat every human equal as we are before God and not like a common criminal.its his or her right to pick up there belongings if caught in the case of visa expiration or criminality as the case maybe.

Unfair and great injustice to the citizens of the country where the person has broken the law to remain.  It is a simple thing:  if you go somewhere, you follow the laws of the place you go.

[coolcoinz]

Unfair and great injustice to the citizens of the country where the person has broken the law to remain.  It is a simple thing:  if you go somewhere, you follow the laws of the place you go.

Exactly! I have all the sympathy to people who get wrongfully detained or convicted, but 0 for people who do wrong and complain they were caught.

You go to another country and act like an entitled child and I personally know such people. They rent a house, don't pay for it, ignore all the warnings and cry when you finally get evicted or your account gets frozen. Not to mention people who buy bitcoin, keep it on their phone with no backup and then it's OMG my phone died or my phone got stolen I lost all my BTC.

I can only relate to an arrest because when I go abroad I don't take all my bitcoin with me, so even if they'd somehow try to deport me without a warning (which will never happen) I wouldn't have to worry about my BTC. So let's say you get arrested, have no friends and family to ask for help and can't access the money, your only hope is that they release you soon, which will most likely happen on a minor charge. Let's say you got drunk and did something, maybe you got into a fight or damaged property, maybe it was a car accident, in all those cases you'd get out in 24-48 hours and could do whatever you want.

If it's a big thing like murder, GTA, large amount of drugs, where you're going you won't need bitcoin. Get ready for some ramen noodle diet!

[NotATether]

There was one instance of a man getting pulled over several years ago, but not by ICE, just by regular police for what I think was tax crimes or something, I don't remember.

The police's body cam footage captured his seed phrase written on a piece of paper, it was broadcast on the news, and the poor guy's wallet was wiped within an hour. It went viral on Twitter.

So, better to not have your seed phrase around with you in a car if you think you're going to get picked up by ICE.

You've got to have the ability to quickly move your coins to a new seed phrase, and it would help if you do get to take your possessions with you during the deportation process.

[lovesmayfamilis]

There are so many posts about finding a trusted person, but I vividly remember several threads discussing whether it's worth entrusting your seed phrase to someone in the event of your death. Most always said we shouldn't trust it to anyone, that relatives, children, or spouses could betray and steal everything.
 
Now I see something different, and people want to entrust their seed phrases to trusted individuals. Who are these people? I see the deportation situation as a subsequent ban on entry into this country, which is essentially tantamount to death. If someone has something they want to entrust to someone, there's always the possibility that the other person won't keep their promise. They've left and are unlikely to return. Trusting someone is just adding stress to your life.

Good idea with the tattoos. And yes, have lots of them so that even the person who got them can't copy them. There are plenty of people with multiple tattoos and multiple quotes on them right now. With a tattoo, you can encrypt words from a phrase or even a password for something like an additional email archive containing everything important.

Let the softest parts of your body serve as a safety cushion.

[SafuBTC]

What do you do in such a scenario?

By law, a citizen cannot be deported from the country, but if citizenship was acquired and the person is subject to deportation, steps should be taken to preserve the seed phrase online. There are many ways to do this, and encryption can help. Simply remember your email password.

What are you saying? If you are not in America haven't you heard how Trump was deporting many people like very quickly? What part of the world are you from? What law are you reffering to? If the citizenship was required, that shows they are migrants, if they misbehave they will go back to their country.

We don't know what this woman did, it is a shame that we don't, but I am sure that if ICE is involved then she is likely not who we think she is, and even if she has her recovery seed on her it is still risky, if the money inside is a lot the agents might take over the wallet and send her on her way, at least she is leaving the country anyway, before she knows what is happening the deal is been done.

[underwood77]

You should take into account that even if something happens to you because you’re under investigation or wanted for terrorism, etc., you need an emergency plan for a serious event. Tell a close family member or friend the procedure to recover funds, have a notary hold your passphrase, maybe use a multisig wallet, or have two hardware wallets: the first, less valuable, used as a decoy with only a small amount, and the second holding the majority of your bitcoins entrusted to a person you trust completely — with the seed phrase written in code and three or more copies placed in different locations that only you or a very small circle can access

[Jubilee58]

This is something which has been rolling around my brain for the last 24 hours...

I read yesterday of a 73yo woman who was deported from the US by ICE, its been
happening to ordinary residents in the US not just dangerous criminals and it
can happen in other countries for example Australia.

Anyway the point of the thread is NOT to debate whether the deportations are
justified or not, this thread is to discuss what happens when you are picked up.

Assuming you are picked up outside your home and deported you lose possession of
your belongings including your hardware wallet and seed (assuming you dont carry it
with you and assuming the officials havent confiscated it)

I cant figure out how I would survive if I had no contacts left in the country
they deported me to, with possibly no or limited money and no access to my
bank or to my Bitcoin.

The vast majority of us will never encounter such a scenario but...

Outside of asking a family member/friend to retrieve your HW wallet and/or seed
What do you do in such a scenario?

This kind of situation can be very disgusting and very challenging and at the same time there are some period in life when things goes against your wish and such situation might be very difficult for you to control.
I have seen people who are one time or the other lost their properties, money or belongings to criminals, fire incident etc and when such a thing occur you need to remain courageous and forge ahead.

Loosing your cryptocurrency wallet is a very sadden experience but how ever people have also lost their fund in one way or the order, but remember you did not loose your life, if you are unable to recover your wallet, you have to start up again to build your self and your wallet in your current location.

In life one can fail in his endeavour several times, and that does not mean you are a failure, it is only when you quit from making effort, that is when you become a failure.

[davis196]

Assuming you are picked up outside your home and deported you lose possession of
your belongings including your hardware wallet and seed (assuming you dont carry it
with you and assuming the officials havent confiscated it)

Are you suggesting that the ICE would just arrest someone and deport him/her within 24 hours without giving him/her the opportunity to pack his/her baggage? I don't know how the ICE operates, but this doesn't seem real to me. Those people might be illegal immigrants, but they still have civil rights. Are you suggesting that the ICE breaks the civil rights of all the people, who got deported? Aren't those people supposed to sue the ICE for a compensation? I'm not a lawyer and I don't know each and every case in detail, but suing the ICE should be totally possible.
Losing access to your crypto wallet is the same as losing access to a bank account. Most illegals probably don't have bank accounts, but they have cash in the places where they live(I guess). I really don't know what I would do in such situation.

[Gozie51]

It is not recommended to use brains but if my practice is diversifying my coins to different wallets, at least I will try to use my brain and memory to remember wallet mnemonic seed of a biggest wallet.

For me I don't think a brain wallet is a good solution to immigrants saving their passphrase, it is dangerous. If I'm an immigrant and I know I have a limited stay over there either because of being deported, I will look for means to project my wallet passphrase and for now what is coming to my mind is saving it in my email and then safeguard my email password and using strong security like 2FA so that before you break into my email, it will be a difficult task.

What about having a USB with no attachment to the Internet with the said keys? - After all, why have it somewhere where somebody would be able (potentially) to get it?

The chances would be smaller with a flash drive or something like that rather than going for the Email, imo..

Well USB is something physical that you might also forget at home while coming out from your home. Remember, it is a scenerio that if you are caught on the way, you will be arrested and deported back home, so you won't have a second chance of visiting your place to pick whatever belonging you have. So the question is, what if you forgot the USB at home and get caught outside there? But with email, I believe you can easily remember your password. Just that you need to secure the email.