Using numbers, Roman Numerals to replace letters in seed phrase

[Sobz]

I just thought one of the possible ways to store seed phrase that someone else wont quickly know it is seed phrase.  I think writing seed phrase with just letters makes it porous and which anyone who sees it will surely know what it is.

We have 26 alphabet;

A represent 1 or i, B represent 2 or ii, C represent 3 or iii, D represent 4 or iv.

I.e BREAD = 2 18 5 1 4
      BIRD    = 2 9 18 4

But the only disadvantage about this pattern, using roman numerals,  it is lengthy and i think it is also time consuming which you need to take your time to figure it out. But it is safer than leaving it letters if it gets expose.

Note: local languages is not exempted in writing seed phrase and password.

[Zaguru12]

Do you still think someone wouldn’t understand that this is clearly letters written in number form, once the numbers are written just the way you did now, with spacing, one would easily dictate that they are letters designated like that most especially if they see that the highest possible number are two digits and also mot exceeding 26, plus the mix of two digits before spacing and one digits also after spacing.

It has been widely or generally agreed that seed phrase are better off left as it is and not been rewritten in other form because it’s just redundancy that could even force you the owner to even forget about it if you try to twerk it too much, so while looking for how to rewrite you seed phrase it is best to actually be looking for a Better storage place for it than doing that.

You could save all this stress by actually adding a passphrase and saving that separately

[Sobz]

Do you still think someone wouldn’t understand that this is clearly letters written in number form, once the numbers are written just the way you did now, with spacing, one would easily dictate that they are letters designated like that most especially if they see that the highest possible number are two digits and also mot exceeding 26, plus the mix of two digits before spacing and one digits also after spacing.

It has been widely or generally agreed that seed phrase are better off left as it is and not been rewritten in other form because it’s just redundancy that could even force you the owner to even forget about it if you try to twerk it too much, so while looking for how to rewrite you seed phrase it is best to actually be looking for a Better storage place for it than doing that.

You could save all this stress by actually adding a passphrase and saving that separately

It is possible for one to know it is a seed phrase but not so quickly and it us possible not to even know.

You understand it is a seed phrase because you already know what we are talking about their. Their are so many numbers written out their  like pin , code. Seeing it ssed phrase may be far from the mind.

[Bch219]

Why go through all this stress?

Just write your seed phrase the normal way. You can even engrave it on steel to prevent it from being wiped off or damaged by other hazards. Then, store it somewhere you know is safe and where nobody is ever going to notice or think of searching for it.

Most importantly, keep your crypto life private. Don’t go around telling people that you’re involved in crypto. If you don’t tell anyone, the chances of someone finding out and demanding your seed phrase will be very low, meaning you won’t have to go through any extra stress to keep your keys safe.

[Zaguru12]

It is possible for one to know it is a seed phrase but not so quickly and it us possible not to even know.

You understand it is a seed phrase because you already know what we are talking about their. Their are so many numbers written out their  like pin , code. Seeing it ssed phrase may be far from the mind.

It is easy to understand mate and it is far different from PIN and Codes. For pins or codes it is usually single numbers like 5678 as the pin or code but in this instance you actually wrote it as 2 18 5 1 4 the spacing gives it away most especially if you letters like R=18 and spacing it away from other letters, you can clearly see that they are actually not same with Pin or codes as you said, and so one will know that it is something that is designated in such form and never a pin or code.

If you then try to avoid spacing it out and write like a pin for example for 218514 you see that there is possibility of you mis reading out later in future as possible 2 1 8 5 14 or even 21 8 5 14 or whatever mistake you make which will then results into a different word and changes the entire seedphrase and this is the worst possible way to actually loss your wallet back up by misplacing this seed phrase.

[Cookdata]

But the only disadvantage about this pattern, using roman numerals,  it is lengthy and i think it is also time consuming which you need to take your time to figure it out. But it is safer than leaving it letters if it gets expose.

Note: local languages is not exempted in writing seed phrase and password.

How is  this safer? Your seed phrase wasn't meant to be exposed, was meant to be hidden from public. I will rather create a seed phrase with a word extension using a passohrase than worry myself about this conversation. How do you sit to do this or you want to create a python code for this conversion to make it snappy?

If you plan to do this manually, the risk it's all on you if anything should happen.

To that thing you did up there, know that you are going back to how seed phrase was converted from binary to Bip39 world worldlist. Your seed phrase were created from an entrophy of binary numbers, then to decimal and these decimals are now converted to bip39 word list.

You seems to be going back to decimal again if you choose numbers, or strings/characters if you choose numerals.

[Marvelockg]

It is possible for one to know it is a seed phrase but not so quickly and it us possible not to even know.

You understand it is a seed phrase because you already know what we are talking about their. Their are so many numbers written out their  like pin , code. Seeing it ssed phrase may be far from the mind.

It is easy to understand mate and it is far different from PIN and Codes. For pins or codes it is usually single numbers like 5678 as the pin or code but in this instance you actually wrote it as 2 18 5 1 4 the spacing gives it away most especially if you letters like R=18 and spacing it away from other letters, you can clearly see that they are actually not same with Pin or codes as you said, and so one will know that it is something that is designated in such form and never a pin or code.

The main issue with this is when someone knows you're holding a certain worth of crypto and is trying to steal it from you hence he goes searching for where you stored you seed phrase. For that, any smart person can easily decode it but if it's not through such format, it's going rn be difficult for an average person that lacks such knowledge to decode it.

My take on this is still that even if you're going to encrypt your seed phrase this way, still ensure it's safe and out of the rich of a third party. That you've converted it from word to numbers or numeral doesn't mean you should store it carelessly, any form of carelessnes on your part endangeres you asset so while you encrypt it, still ensures that it's stored in a safe place as well.

[Alpha Marine]

As much as I like the idea of ciphering your seed phrase in a way that won't look like a seed phrase in the eyes of the common man, your seed phrase should be kept in a place that you and you alone should get to or see. So, whatever code you might write it in, it's still safer if you keep it somewhere secret where only you can access it.
The problem with cyphers is that they can always be deciphered. All it needs is for the person to get the idea and time, and this is not a very complicated thing to understand.

I like it because there are ways you can write them in a single line with a dot to differentiate each word, instead of just words like the seed phrase. It won't make it impenetrable, but at first glance, it will look like just numbers.
For example, instead of writing BREAD and BIRD as
2 18 5 1 4
 2 9 18 4, you can write it as 2 18 5 1 4.2 9 18 4.
This way, at first glance, to someone else it may be 4.2, but you will understand that every number after the dot is another word.
However, I don't see the point because it's not very effective, and you still need to protect it like your life depends on it.

[CryptSafe]

This is a good idea and I believe there are people out there who it could be of help to. Although such idea might be time consuming and complex but no idea is a waste as it could lead to another discovery as well. One thing that is paramount in all is that we should keep our seed phrase in a safe place where we alone can be able to access it irrespective of whatever means we stored it in.
Number, letters, alphabets, signs codes etc are all good to use as long as it is okay and convenient with whomever is using it. The time and complexity is not am issue in this case when the person using it is comfortable with the process after all security and safety is very much important than to lose guard. So saving your seed phrase in this format is not a bad idea anyone who deems it fit can use it as long as it is kept safe and out from public view.

[KingsDen]

Op, this method will end up confusing you that is the owner and you will lose your money. This will happen when double numbers occur. For instance, in the example about, "R" was 18 and if you mistakenly write 1 8 instead of 18, you'll lose your money.
This method will be useful for a careful human being and it could be safe since no one visits their seed phrase very often.

Meanwhile, the format you suggested above won't take a tech guy time to decide. It will only look like an atomic bomb to a layman who is not used to digits of the digital world. So, still hide your seed phrase securely.

[Solosanz]

Technologia 🗣️🔥

It's only enough to make non crypto people to not notice it, but people who know about crypto high likely know because seed phrase consist of 12 words. Since seed phrase should be keep in private place, imagine if someone get this "code" on a secret place, I don't think they will just forget it and not being suspicious.

This way, at first glance, to someone else it may be 4.2, but you will understand that every number after the dot is another word.

It still doesn't remove the pattern, the dot is still obvious to be use for separate the numbers.

You have to make it to be very different, at least like a HEX code.

[CryptoGirl_200x]

I just thought one of the possible ways to store seed phrase that someone else wont quickly know it is seed phrase.  I think writing seed phrase with just letters makes it porous and which anyone who sees it will surely know what it is.

We have 26 alphabet;

A represent 1 or i, B represent 2 or ii, C represent 3 or iii, D represent 4 or iv.

I.e BREAD = 2 18 5 1 4
      BIRD    = 2 9 18 4

But the only disadvantage about this pattern, using roman numerals,  it is lengthy and i think it is also time consuming which you need to take your time to figure it out. But it is safer than leaving it letters if it gets expose.

Note: local languages is not exempted in writing seed phrase and password.

This is a very good idea, but it can only remain a good idea so long as this can last until someone who knows this pattern finds your seed phrase written in this pattern, and knows its a seed phrase and eventually enters your wallet and wipe everythng in there..

I would say that who ever is using this pattern should still maintain the top level of security consciousness and ensure that this part of their wallet information remain private at all cost.

[Felicity_Tide]

I just thought one of the possible ways to store seed phrase that someone else wont quickly know it is seed phrase.  I think writing seed phrase with just letters makes it porous and which anyone who sees it will surely know what it is.

We have 26 alphabet;

A represent 1 or i, B represent 2 or ii, C represent 3 or iii, D represent 4 or iv.

I don't think this technic is in anyway much secure if the written document is still exposed. The pattern in which a seed phrase comes in doesn't necessarily matter, be it your language or mine. What matters is the level of confidentiality. Even if you transfer your seed phrase into these roman numerals in a descending order, and it is exposed, don't you think you also possess a risk?, because of course, some people can be very smart by knowing that what was written is something that needs to be decoded.

It is better not take take such risks. The most important things is your own security and the level of your seed phrase confidentiality.

[suzanne5223]

I just thought one of the possible ways to store seed phrase that someone else wont quickly know it is seed phrase.  I think writing seed phrase with just letters makes it porous and which anyone who sees it will surely know what it is.

We have 26 alphabet;

A represent 1 or i, B represent 2 or ii, C represent 3 or iii, D represent 4 or iv.

I.e BREAD = 2 18 5 1 4
      BIRD    = 2 9 18 4

But the only disadvantage about this pattern, using roman numerals,  it is lengthy and i think it is also time consuming which you need to take your time to figure it out. But it is safer than leaving it letters if it gets expose.

Note: local languages is not exempted in writing seed phrase and password.

This is a method i once thought about, but my understanding of it is that it's a method that will only work on people who are still naive about Bitcoin, but someone who is knowledgeable could put the pieces together.
I believe it's better to use the Shamir secret sharing strategy, or get a mental BTC seed phrase storage which are tested for fire, water, corrosion, rust, etc. Keep in a safe location, or get a safety deposit box, of course, that's if you care about your holdings.

[un_rank]

Op, this method will end up confusing you that is the owner and you will lose your money. This will happen when double numbers occur. For instance, in the example about, "R" was 18 and if you mistakenly write 1 8 instead of 18, you'll lose your money.

It may be a stressful situation but someone who created the system will be able to figure out where the mistake was made. This is as similar to misspelling a word when writing down your seedphrase, you should be able to identify where the issue is and fix it after careful scrutiny.

The best way to secure your seedphrase is to keep it out of sight. Anyone finding a well hidden note with sets of numbers that look like a code will be interested in finding out what that is about and this pattern will not take long to crack.

- Jay -

[promise444c5]

It’s not much of a bad idea .. if you even want to make it hard to decipher, you can create a mapping for it  i.e you would be having a new set of Roman figure to represent your letter..Since Roman Numeral is number you can manipulate things by creating a new mapping i.e give L to A, II to D and so on, You can back it up to cloud or any online storage but keep the encoded seed offline..

The only concern about this method is that it could be a bit stressful and maybe prone to error depending on on how you set it up  but why not, create a long moderate  passphrase, then use your newly  created  mapping  for substitution encoding, keep it cold along with the seed  i feel it’s much more better.

[Porfirii]

I'm nothing like a experienced cryptographer but I'm sure that a seed phrase encrypted by the method explained by the OP could be deciphered by a child.

In fact, thanks to the AI I don't think there are many patterns that we can create that are safe anymore. So I wouldn't make experiments and I would hide the seed in a safe place, as it is. What you propose can lead to a false sensation of control and/or lead you to make unnecessary mistakes. Anyway, how we take care of our seed phrases is not anyone else's business, so don't pay too much attention to me either

[I_Anime]

Why go through all this stress?

Just write your seed phrase the normal way. You can even engrave it on steel to prevent it from being wiped off or damaged by other hazards. Then, store it somewhere you know is safe and where nobody is ever going to notice or think of searching for it.

Most importantly, keep your crypto life private. Don’t go around telling people that you’re involved in crypto. If you don’t tell anyone, the chances of someone finding out and demanding your seed phrase will be very low, meaning you won’t have to go through any extra stress to keep your keys safe.

Keeping your crypto live private is a smart one , yes is still possible to write it down in a note and keep it safe away from anyone reach or external damages (like water, fire etc. ) . Still everyone have their own method to keep their seed phrases safe and using values to represent your seed phrase ain't bad because no one is going to figure it out that easily unless he or she allows them , because if someone like me encounter such I will think just some random values .

But there is still disadvantages, like forgotten the value arrangement and stuff not knowing which represents which.

[DYING_S0UL]

I'm nothing like a experienced cryptographer but I'm sure that a seed phrase encrypted by the method explained by the OP could be deciphered by a child.

In fact, thanks to the AI I don't think there are many patterns that we can create that are safe anymore. So I wouldn't make experiments and I would hide the seed in a safe place, as it is. What you propose can lead to a false sensation of control and/or lead you to make unnecessary mistakes. Anyway, how we take care of our seed phrases is not anyone else's business, so don't pay too much attention to me either

Me neither and the things you said I cannot but agree wholly!

In my opinion the best approach would be using an additional passphrase. For example generate a 12/24 word seed and add an additional passphrase there (a phrase that you wouldn't forget no matter what). After that safely store that seed without the passphrase. In this way even if your seeds are exposed there is no way hackers your know there is an additional phrase. I tried it once, the main wallet had balance, and the wallet with additional passphrase had nothing on it.

[Chinesebaby]

I just thought one of the possible ways to store seed phrase that someone else wont quickly know it is seed phrase.  I think writing seed phrase with just letters makes it porous and which anyone who sees it will surely know what it is.

We have 26 alphabet;

A represent 1 or i, B represent 2 or ii, C represent 3 or iii, D represent 4 or iv.

I.e BREAD = 2 18 5 1 4
      BIRD    = 2 9 18 4

But the only disadvantage about this pattern, using roman numerals,  it is lengthy and i think it is also time consuming which you need to take your time to figure it out. But it is safer than leaving it letters if it gets expose.

Note: local languages is not exempted in writing seed phrase and password.

You are absolutely right on this suggestion you just gave above about the use of Roman numerals in place of alphabet when storing the seed phrase of our Bitcoin wallets. Because it is very possible when such figures falls into the hand of a random user, the chance of them knowing it's actually a Bitcoin wallet seed phrase is actually limited, as compared if it was written in it's real phase. Because I would have also suggest that if we can add a dot between in figures in other to differentiate it as shown below, it would have been more useful. As it exclude any attempts that will make it look confusing.

I.e BREAD = 2.18.5.1.4
      BIRD    = 2. 9.18. 4